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Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More

 
TheLordsServant  (OP)

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02/17/2019 01:41 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
The Father is God.

The Son is God.

The Spirit is God.


Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


Trinitarian nonsense.

The "trinity" doctrine didn't exist during the time of the Apostles, nor in the Old Testament.

Look up the history of these verses...

Matthew 28:19
1 John 5:7
1 Timothy 3:16
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
----------------------------------------
Here is a list of the people in the Bible who claim that Jesus is the Son of God, and then those who claim that he is God the Son. I will keep it simple and not list the verses that claim that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of Man, or the king of Israel. All these titles are synonymous.

Son of God

God Himself refers to Jesus as His Son: Matthew 2:15, 3:17, 17:5, Mk 1:11, 9:7,Luke 9:35

Jesus says that he is the Son of God: Matthew 26:63, Luke 22:70, John 5:25, 10:36, 19:7

The angel Gabriel says Jesus is the Son of God: Luke 1:35

Peter says that Jesus is the Son of God: Matthew 16:16

John the Apostle says Jesus is the Son of God: John 20:31, 1 John 3:23, 4:15, 5:5

All the Apostles say Jesus is the Son of God: Matthew 14:33, John 6:69

John the Baptist says Jesus is the Son of God: John 1:34

John Mark says Jesus is the Son of God: Mark 1:1

Paul says Jesus is the Son of God: Acts 9:20, Romans 1:4, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Galatians 2:20, Hebrews 4:14

Nathanael says Jesus is the Son of God: John 1:49

Demons say Jesus is the Son of God: Matthew 8:29, Mark 3:11, 5:7,Luke 4:41, 8:28

The Centurion says Jesus is the Son of God: Matthew 27:54, Mark 15:39
------------------------------------------------
People in the Bible who say Jesus IS God.

Thomas
-------------------------------------------------
People in the Bible who say Jesus is "God the Son"

Nobody.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
When Scripture says that He lowered Himself to come and take on the form of a man,

what does that mean?


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


spanky-waitn
TheLordsServant  (OP)

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

"I, Jesus


Revelation 22:12-16

"behold, I am coming quickly
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
I, Jesus


What does this mean?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


Here's a 1611 King James Red Letter Bible in several formats. Red Letter means it SUPPOSEDLY has Jesus' words in the New Testament in "red lettering".

[link to archive.org (secure)]

The phrase "Alpha and Omega" is only used in Revelation.

If you take a look at Revelation 1 and 22 you will see that the phrase is indeed in red letters.

But yet, in Revelation 21:6, the phrase is NOT in red letters. And if you look at 21:5, you can see that "he who sat on the throne" starts speaking to John in 21:6.

IF Jesus is God Himself, then Why aren't the words highlighted then?

Because Jesus isn't the Father, the one who is on the throne.

Is it possible then that both the Father and the Son can be called "Alpha and Omega"?
-------------------------------------------

Comparisons of Revelation 1:11 in various Bibles.

Alpha and Omega are not in MOST of them.

AND not in the oldest manuscripts.

[link to www.biblestudytools.com (secure)]

[link to biblehub.com]

-------------------------------------------------------
The below is from here... [link to www.bibleanswerstand.org]

Comparisons Between God and the Man Jesus in Revelation 1:1-9

Having established the difference between God the Father and Jesus, the son of God, let us now contrast the differences as seen in the Book of Revelation. Comparisons between God and Jesus in the Book of Revelation are especially important, because at the time it was written, Jesus had already ascended into heaven, and was seated at the Father’s right hand for many years.

God Gave Jesus (the man) the Revelation

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John, (NAS)

Note that “God gave” Jesus Christ the “Revelation.” If Jesus is God in heaven, then why does he need another God to give him the revelation? Obviously this proves God is different than Jesus Christ.

The Word Of God and Testimony Of Jesus Are Separate

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God AND to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. (NAS)

The contrast in Revelation 1:2 is seen with the use of the conjunction, “AND,” because the word “AND” separates the phrase, “the word of God” from the phrase, “the testimony of Jesus.” The apostle John, who received the revelation, bore witness to two separate beings.

He ‘Who Is And Who Was And Who Is To Come’ Is Separate From Jesus

Revelation 1:4-6 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood, AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)

John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly from WHOM the message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND from Jesus Christ.” The word, “and,” is a conjunction, which divides and separates. This alone PROVES Jesus is not the same as God, and later, in Revelation 1:8, this is verified.

God the Father, who is also known as Yahweh in the OT, is the One, “who is,” because in Exodus 3:14 He tells Moses His name, saying, “I AM THAT I AM.” This is an incomplete translation of the Hebrew wording, “Ehyeh Asshur Ehyeh.” This Hebrew term is more accurately translated as, “I exist {present tense} as what I AM, and what I have always existed as {in the past tense}, and what I will continue to exist as {in the future}.” This Hebrew phrase matches the Greek equivalent description in Revelation 1:4 perfectly as, “Him who is {in the present} and who was {in the past} and who is to come {in the future}.” .

Jesus Cannot Be God If He Is The Firstborn From Among The Dead

Secondly, in order of rank and importance, John writes concerning Jesus by calling him, “the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead,” who, “released us from our sins by his blood.” Again as mentioned earlier, God cannot die, nor does He have blood like a man.

I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
"I, Jesus



Revelation 22:12-16



"behold, I am coming quickly
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
I, Jesus



What does this mean?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


spanky-waitn
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. Lol
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
Ridiculous nonsense.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
If Messiah is not God

then his death does not save you.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2019 01:48 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
He claims to be the son of man and son of God and yet his disciples called him God. The trinity is your false idol.

He made a new religion and encouraged idolatry.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2019 01:53 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
These are over 320 verses in which Jesus...

1. States who He is.
2. States that He was SENT, and WHY He was sent.
-sending requires authority.
3. Declares the soveriegn nature of the Father.
4. Declares the kingdom of the Father (not HIS kingdom).


The word "Father" occurs 250 times in 212 verses in Matthew thru John in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Of those 250 times, there are 224 verses where either Jesus or the Apostles refer to the "Father" - God.
-----------------------------------------

The phrase "my Father" occurs 56 times in 53 verses, all in the 4 Gospels & Revelation in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
------------------------------------------

The phrase "the Father" occurs 143 times in 125 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Jesus uses the phrase "the Father" 59 times
The Apostles use it another 50 times
----------------------------------------

The phrase "our Father" 19 verses in the KJV

The phrase "your Father" 15 verses in the 4 Gospels

The phrase "thy Father" 3 verses in Matthew

The phrase "heavenly Father" 6 verses in the 4 Gospels

Jesus uses just the word "Father" 19 verses in the 4 Gospels

----------------------------------------
Jesus states that He was "SENT" 47 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "Son of God" is used 28 times in the 4 Gospels
The phrase "Son of God" is used 19 times in Acts thru Revelation

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of God" (NOT "MY kingdom") is used 54 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times - NOT "MY kingdom" - (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
-----------------------------------------

Those who claim that Jesus is the Father Himself / God Almighty say this God praying to & talking to Himself?

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the Old Testament does God the Father pray to Himself.


That is 4000 YEARS or more.

I claim that John 17 is the Son of God praying to & talking to OUR Father!

When you read John 17, imagine that you are watching Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

John 17 KJV

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Conscious Energy (the Father), planned to create and to facilitate the plan he created the Thought/ the Word? Logos representing connectable and understandable emanation through which the Worlds within God were created, people's Souls bear energy of God within themselves - Christ. Jesus is archetype of Soul realizing Christ within that made him one with the Father.
ALL IS ONE IS ALL

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
These are over 320 verses in which Jesus...

1. States who He is.
2. States that He was SENT, and WHY He was sent.
-sending requires authority.
3. Declares the soveriegn nature of the Father.
4. Declares the kingdom of the Father (not HIS kingdom).


The word "Father" occurs 250 times in 212 verses in Matthew thru John in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Of those 250 times, there are 224 verses where either Jesus or the Apostles refer to the "Father" - God.
-----------------------------------------

The phrase "my Father" occurs 56 times in 53 verses, all in the 4 Gospels & Revelation in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
------------------------------------------

The phrase "the Father" occurs 143 times in 125 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Jesus uses the phrase "the Father" 59 times
The Apostles use it another 50 times
----------------------------------------

The phrase "our Father" 19 verses in the KJV

The phrase "your Father" 15 verses in the 4 Gospels

The phrase "thy Father" 3 verses in Matthew

The phrase "heavenly Father" 6 verses in the 4 Gospels

Jesus uses just the word "Father" 19 verses in the 4 Gospels

----------------------------------------
Jesus states that He was "SENT" 47 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "Son of God" is used 28 times in the 4 Gospels
The phrase "Son of God" is used 19 times in Acts thru Revelation

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of God" (NOT "MY kingdom") is used 54 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times - NOT "MY kingdom" - (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
-----------------------------------------

Those who claim that Jesus is the Father Himself / God Almighty say this God praying to & talking to Himself?

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the Old Testament does God the Father pray to Himself.


That is 4000 YEARS or more.

I claim that John 17 is the Son of God praying to & talking to OUR Father!

When you read John 17, imagine that you are watching Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

John 17 KJV

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

 Quoting: TheLordsServant


And none of that is Truth beloved.. We are giving the Truth.. and it will come more and more.. because of the division created by the dark shits in all religions.. th eonly ure IS THE TRUTH.. and its all in the SPIRIT OF TRUTH which only those Father indwelt can access.
There Can Be NO Peace in the Heart or Progress in the Mind unless one falls wholeheartedly in love with Truth and IDEALS of Eternal Realities.

Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.


"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.


Wisdom is not given, it is earned, and experience is the bestower.

Rejoice, for the world of ABSOLUTE TRANSPARENCY approaches, and decisions will be made according to the purity of your motives, for the eye of the Divine is an all-seeing eye, capable of glimpsing every flutter of the soul, knowing every yearning of your being and – incredible though it may seem – supporting every aspect of your own DIVINE PLAN.


God-consciousness, as it is experienced by an evolving mortal of the realms, must consist of three varying factors, three differential levels of reality realization. There is first the mind consciousness—the comprehension of the idea of God. Then follows the soul consciousness—the realization of the ideal of God. Last, dawns the spirit consciousness—the realization of the spirit reality of God. By the unification of these factors of the divine realization, no matter how incomplete, the mortal personality at all times overspreads all conscious levels with a realization of the personality of God.

the registered number of this world out of 5.6 Trillion evolutionary worlds bearing Human life.. is 5,342,482,337,666. There is nothing evil about 666. Just IGNORANCE and mind controlling.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
And then,

what happened after His Ascension?

...
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2019 02:00 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
Colossians 2:9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

2 Peter 1:1 . . . our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

St. Paul uses the same phrase in Titus 2:13 as well.

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.”
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

John 1:1, 14 (RSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

In Hebrews 1:6, God the Father also says that all the angels should worship God the Son. Worship can only be rightly applied to God, as we know from Exodus 34:14 and Deuteronomy 8:19. Yet Jesus accepted worship of Himself on many occasions (e.g., Mt 14:33; 28:9) and stated that He should be honored equally with the Father (Jn 5:23). In Revelation 5:8, 12-13 and Colossians 2:6-7, we find that Jesus is worshiped in every way that the Bible specifically describes worship of God the Father, with all the same words used (see: Rev 4:9-11, 5:13; 7:11-12, and Rom 11:33).
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
Colossians 1:19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke

Prince of peace!?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exodus 20:12

He encouraged sin and breaking of the ten commandments here!
NoFriendOfTheWorld

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
When Scripture says that He lowered Himself to come and take on the form of a man,

what does that mean?


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


spanky-waitn
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459

You're referring to Philippans 2, and OP can't refute this or any other scripture that clearly proves that Jesus is God:

Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Don't argue with OP. God has doesn't want him to understand the truth at this point.
Triteia

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02/17/2019 03:40 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
Those who claim that Jesus is the Father Himself / God Almighty say John 17 is God praying to & talking to Himself.

1doh1

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the Old Testament does God the Father pray to Himself.

That is 4000 YEARS or more.

God doesn't pray to Himself.

But the Son of God clearly prays TO the Father!
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


clappa
Triteia
Triteia

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02/17/2019 03:42 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
The infinite Almighty God exceeds the finite capabilities of your understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47132336


And that there is the wisest statement I have ever read here.
 Quoting: Rozumiesz?


Very true!
yessir
Triteia
Triteia

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02/17/2019 03:52 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
When Scripture says that He lowered Himself to come and take on the form of a man,

what does that mean?


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


spanky-waitn
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459


We all lowered ourselves to take on the form of man!
We are part of GOD!

There really is no use in arguing with you religion brain washed people.
I pray you can break free.

I have actually met Jesus and have seen The Kingdom of God in a near death experience. Personal experience.

That is what you guys need. Not just reading from The Bible.
It takes HEART!

Forget it. The Lord gave these things to the most pure and child-like among us to confound the "wise"! Let it remain so!

You guys could be dangerous!
Triteia
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2019 03:53 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
We all lowered ourselves to take on the form of man!

 Quoting: Triteia


False.

You did not exist before your conception.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2019 03:55 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More

I pray you can break free.
 Quoting: Triteia

Who you pray to?

Break free of what?

Faith in God through Jesus Christ?!

I have actually met Jesus and have seen The Kingdom of God in a near death experience. Personal experience.
 Quoting: Triteia

Therefore what?
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2019 03:56 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
The infinite Almighty God exceeds the finite capabilities of your understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47132336
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
The infinite Almighty God exceeds the finite capabilities of your understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47132336

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77383383
DGN

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02/17/2019 04:12 PM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
The infinite Almighty God exceeds the finite capabilities of your understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47132336

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77383383

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77383383


That's why he provided the bible.
"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." 2Ti3:16
So that the man of God doesn't get confused and become idolatrous.
TheLordsServant  (OP)

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02/17/2019 11:30 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
Colossians 2:9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

2 Peter 1:1 . . . our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

St. Paul uses the same phrase in Titus 2:13 as well.

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

John 1:1, 14 (RSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

In Hebrews 1:6, God the Father also says that all the angels should worship God the Son. Worship can only be rightly applied to God, as we know from Exodus 34:14 and Deuteronomy 8:19. Yet Jesus accepted worship of Himself on many occasions (e.g., Mt 14:33; 28:9) and stated that He should be honored equally with the Father (Jn 5:23). In Revelation 5:8, 12-13 and Colossians 2:6-7, we find that Jesus is worshiped in every way that the Bible specifically describes worship of God the Father, with all the same words used (see: Rev 4:9-11, 5:13; 7:11-12, and Rom 11:33).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Colossians 1:19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke

Prince of peace!?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


When Scripture says that He lowered Himself to come and take on the form of a man,

what does that mean?


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77381459

You're referring to Philippans 2, and OP can't refute this or any other scripture that clearly proves that Jesus is God:

Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Don't argue with OP. God has doesn't want him to understand the truth at this point.
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


What part of "the Son OF God" is it that you just can't seem to comprehend?

I've been doing a "research" of KJV Bible verses that support "Jesus as the Son of God" - Son of the Father.

There's around 400 of them. horn2
---------------------------------------------

The word "Father" occurs 250 times in 212 verses in Matthew thru John in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Of those 250 times, there are 224 verses where either Jesus or the Apostles refer to the "Father" - God.
-----------------------------------------

The phrase "my Father" occurs 56 times in 53 verses, all in the 4 Gospels & Revelation in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
------------------------------------------

The phrase "the Father" occurs 143 times in 125 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Jesus uses the phrase "the Father" 59 times
The Apostles use it another 50 times

----------------------------------------

The phrase "our Father" 19 verses in the KJV

The phrase "your Father" 15 verses in the 4 Gospels

The phrase "thy Father" 3 verses in Matthew

The phrase "heavenly Father" 6 verses in the 4 Gospels

Jesus uses just the word "Father" 19 verses in the 4 Gospels


----------------------------------------
Jesus states that He was "SENT" 47 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "Son of God" is used 28 times in the 4 Gospels
The phrase "Son of God" is used 19 times in Acts thru Revelation


[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of God" (NOT "MY kingdom") is used 54 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times - NOT "MY kingdom" - (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 02/17/2019 11:41 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2019 10:00 AM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
And the LORD said to Moses, “I will do this very thing you have asked, for you have found favor in My sight, and I know you by name.” 18Then Moses said, “Please show me Your glory.” 19“I will cause all My goodness to pass in front of you,” the LORD replied, “and I will proclaim My name—the LORD—before you. I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”…



22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.…



Moses ask to see Gods Glory. what or whom did he see?
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2019 10:51 AM
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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
I have read this thread over and over. There are things I can't understand.

How can Jesus forgive sin if He is not God?

How could Jesus be sinless if He is not God?

How can Jesus be Savior if He is not God?

How can Jesus be from everlasting to everlasting if He is not God, but a creation?

Why would he be called Emmanuel, God with us, if He is not God?

How can His dominion be everlasting, and His Kingdom never be destroyed if He is not God which is eternal?


From my understanding, Jesus has said He is God, and He is the Son of God, and that He is the son of man, and The Messiah/Christ. And as far as making Father, Son, and Holy Spirit into 3 sperate persons, that is not at all true. It is the 3 natures of God that represent one wholeness. God is one. Same and Body, Soul, and Spirit. They aren't 3 separate beings, but 3 aspects of the nature of one being human.
TheLordsServant  (OP)

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02/20/2019 02:56 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
I have read this thread over and over. There are things I can't understand.

1. How can Jesus forgive sin if He is not God?
2. How could Jesus be sinless if He is not God?
3. How can Jesus be Savior if He is not God?
4. How can Jesus be from everlasting to everlasting if He is not God, but a creation?
5. Why would he be called Emmanuel, God with us, if He is not God?
6. How can His dominion be everlasting, and His Kingdom never be destroyed if He is not God which is eternal?
7. From my understanding, Jesus has said He is God, and He is the Son of God, and that He is the son of man, and The Messiah/Christ.
8. And as far as making Father, Son, and Holy Spirit into 3 sperate persons, that is not at all true. It is the 3 natures of God that represent one wholeness. God is one. Same and Body, Soul, and Spirit. They aren't 3 separate beings, but 3 aspects of the nature of one being human.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77356581


1. Because the Father has GIVEN Jesus the authority to do it. Jesus also gave the Apostles the ability to forgive. Who forgives our sins? Jesus TELLS us.

Matthew 6

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


2. Jesus is sinless because He's the only-begotten Son OF God. When Lucifer rebelled, he took some of the angels with him, so they too are capable of sin. Only Jesus, as the only-begotten, can not sin.

3. The Father is the True Saviour. He's the one who SENT Jesus. Jesus is considered Saviour because He did ALL the Father asked of Him. Here's all the verses in the KJV with the word "Saviour"

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

4. "everlasting" because He IS the Son OF God - created from the Father's very essence.

5. No human called Jesus "Emmanuel" in the Bible. The angel was speaking to Mary. Isaiah 9:6 is the Father's words THROUGH Isaiah.

6. Eternal because Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.

7. Jesus NEVER once proclaimed that "I am God". AND He states that He is NOT EQUAL to the Father. The "before Abraham I am" and "the Father and I are one" verses are taken out of context by trinitarian and other doctrines.

8. I don't see a difference between "soul" and "spirit", as neither continue to exist after the final "white throne" judgement by Jesus.

How does Jesus sit at the Father's right hand and claim that the Father is God Himself, IF the statements Jesus makes are NOT TRUE?

John 20

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

....21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Matthew 16

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TheLordsServant  (OP)

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02/20/2019 03:01 PM

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Re: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
And the LORD said to Moses, “I will do this very thing you have asked, for you have found favor in My sight, and I know you by name.” 18Then Moses said, “Please show me Your glory.” 19“I will cause all My goodness to pass in front of you,” the LORD replied, “and I will proclaim My name—the LORD—before you. I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”…

22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.…

Moses ask to see Gods Glory. what or whom did he see?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70501380


The Father's glory.

God's Glory is His own. John 17:5 shows us that Jesus is ASKING the Father to "have His own glory RETURNED to Him (Jesus)".

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:22 reaffirms that Jesus had gotten His glory FROM THE Father.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;

What part of "Lamb OF God" is it that you folks can't understand?
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.