A Easter challenge :pagan gods had no influence on Biblical Christianity.

The Hebrews were using the lunar calendar before they went into Babylon.
____________________________________


They changed their method of calculation to the Babylonian during and after their exile.

They were heavily influenced by this "pagan" religion.

The Hebrews were using the lunar calendar before they went into Babylon.

And some of the OT books are older than the Babylonian text.

lol 1st off since we use Roman names in our months,some of whom were Roman gods does that mean we worship roman mythology. By you logic since we do and have used a calendar with roman gods it must have influenced the Declaration of Independence

After all it the document was adopted by Congress on July 4th a month named after Julias Ceasar and it is a National holiday



Your post is unresponsive and you know it. At least be forthright and admit it.

You posted this challenge.

No your post is nonsense..unless of course you think we worship roman gods and they because of our calendar influnce us. Yes or No?



True or false.

The beginning of the month in the Babylonian calendar was determined by the direct observation by priests of the young crescent moon at sunset after the astronomical New Moon.

This custom is continued in Judaism with the principle that the new calendar day begins at sunset.

Prior to the Babylonian captivity the Jews did not calculate days using the sunset.

The Jews did not calculate their Sabbath as we know it until they took the calculation from the Babylonian religion.

There are many more instances of the cultural influences that the Babylonian exile had to Judaism.

lol 1st off since we use Roman names in our months,some of whom were Roman gods does that mean we worship roman mythology. By you logic since we do and have used a calendar with roman gods it must have influenced the Declaration of Independence

After all it the document was adopted by Congress on July 4th a month named after Julias Ceasar and it is a National holiday



Your post is unresponsive and you know it. At least be forthright and admit it.

You posted this challenge.

No your post is nonsense..unless of course you think we worship roman gods and they because of our calendar influnce us. Yes or No?



True or false.

The beginning of the month in the Babylonian calendar was determined by the direct observation by priests of the young crescent moon at sunset after the astronomical New Moon.

This custom is continued in Judaism with the principle that the new calendar day begins at sunset.

Prior to the Babylonian captivity the Jews did not calculate days using the sunset.

The Jews did not calculate their Sabbath as we know it until they took the calculation from the Babylonian religion.

There are many more instances of the cultural influences that the Babylonian exile had to Judaism.

Key word..cultural influences. You still avoid the OP Show a direct influ of a mystery religion,mythology on the Gospels and the person of Jesus Christ. If not your hijacking the thread on your tangent of a calendar which I've pointed out is a non-issue

Quote:
Key word..cultural influences. You still avoid the OP Show a direct influ of a mystery religion,mythology on the Gospels and the person of Jesus Christ. If not your hijacking the thread on your tangent of a calendar which I've pointed out is a non-issue

Reaction:
Oh my oh my... Mathetes...

lol 1st off since we use Roman names in our months,some of whom were Roman gods does that mean we worship roman mythology. By you logic since we do and have used a calendar with roman gods it must have influenced the Declaration of Independence

After all it the document was adopted by Congress on July 4th a month named after Julias Ceasar and it is a National holiday



Your post is unresponsive and you know it. At least be forthright and admit it.

You posted this challenge.

No your post is nonsense..unless of course you think we worship roman gods and they because of our calendar influnce us. Yes or No?



True or false.

The beginning of the month in the Babylonian calendar was determined by the direct observation by priests of the young crescent moon at sunset after the astronomical New Moon.

This custom is continued in Judaism with the principle that the new calendar day begins at sunset.

Prior to the Babylonian captivity the Jews did not calculate days using the sunset.

The Jews did not calculate their Sabbath as we know it until they took the calculation from the Babylonian religion.

There are many more instances of the cultural influences that the Babylonian exile had to Judaism.

Key word..cultural influences. You still avoid the OP Show a direct influ of a mystery religion,mythology on the Gospels and the person of Jesus Christ. If not your hijacking the thread on your tangent of a calendar which I've pointed out is a non-issue



This thread has spawned a whole list of other debates...

"I don't know the answer so look over here please!!"

lol

Its been almost a year since I had this debate and being Easter I thought it time once again. The premise of this thread is that pagan gods had no influence on the writing of the Gospels. In any debate I've had on this subject no one has ever shown source material that proves their point, in other words no quotes from pseudo-scholars. Source material(documents or archaeological evidence) Please no long cut and pastes and lets be polite.


Now, the practices of Christianity stem off of OTHER religions ideas and practices. Why does the story of Jesus match that or Horus, Mithra, Ezra, etc. etc.

The practices of Horus in Ancient Egypt was developed and told for thousands of years before the development of Christianity. And the religious stories told during the Ancient Egyptian times were adapted from the stories involving the constellations, planets, sun & stars.


I'll repost this because it realtes directly to your statement about Horus...and Mithra has been shown quite clearly not to have anything in common with Jesus..unless you have discovered some new source material on Mithra?

Now to Horus


I was curious what an expert on Egyptology had to say about this subject ie Christianity being influenced by the Osiris story or any other Egyptian god

Here is the e-mail exchange that I would be happy to foward to anyone(Mine is the 1st one) The response is from Dr. Parkinson Assistant Keeper in the Department of Egyptian Antiquities at the British Museum, specialising in hieratic papyri and epigraphy.

Dear Ms.Davies

I know your time is very valuable so I will be brief, I am researching and writing a response to a video that is becoming quite popular on the Internet that concerns among other things Horus, as a layman in this area I naturally defer to experts on this subject. If you could answer a few questions on this subject I would be extremely grateful!
While some of these claims may seem ridiculous to you I assure you they are taken as gospel by the laymen that read and watch this video.
The first claim made is that Horus was born on December 25th, do we have any data on this?
The second claim is that Horus was baptized at 30 yrs old
The third claim is that Horus had 12 disciples and was called the lamb of god
The forth claim is that Horus was crucified
The fifth claim is that Horus was born of a virgin
And lastly that Horus was adored by 3 kings at his birth and there was a star in the East associated with his birth.

As you can see some quite fantastic claims that I might add are stated as fact, any input on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

The response
---------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. xxx

Thank you for your enquiry, which Vivian Davies has passed to me. All the claims are, as you suspect, quite without any Egyptological support or evidence. The fifth claim is demonstrably ridiculous when one considers the scenes on temple walls that show the resurrected god Osiris impregnating the goddess Isis (in the form of a bird) to beget Horus (e.g. [link to perso.orange.fr]

With best wishes
Dr R. B. Parkinson,
duty curator

Its been almost a year since I had this debate and being Easter I thought it time once again. The premise of this thread is that pagan gods had no influence on the writing of the Gospels. In any debate I've had on this subject no one has ever shown source material that proves their point, in other words no quotes from pseudo-scholars. Source material(documents or archaeological evidence) Please no long cut and pastes and lets be polite.


Now, the practices of Christianity stem off of OTHER religions ideas and practices. Why does the story of Jesus match that or Horus, Mithra, Ezra, etc. etc.

The practices of Horus in Ancient Egypt was developed and told for thousands of years before the development of Christianity. And the religious stories told during the Ancient Egyptian times were adapted from the stories involving the constellations, planets, sun & stars.


I'll repost this because it realtes directly to your statement about Horus...and Mithra has been shown quite clearly not to have anything in common with Jesus..unless you have discovered some new source material on Mithra?

Now to Horus


I was curious what an expert on Egyptology had to say about this subject ie Christianity being influenced by the Osiris story or any other Egyptian god

Here is the e-mail exchange that I would be happy to foward to anyone(Mine is the 1st one) The response is from Dr. Parkinson Assistant Keeper in the Department of Egyptian Antiquities at the British Museum, specialising in hieratic papyri and epigraphy.

Dear Ms.Davies

I know your time is very valuable so I will be brief, I am researching and writing a response to a video that is becoming quite popular on the Internet that concerns among other things Horus, as a layman in this area I naturally defer to experts on this subject. If you could answer a few questions on this subject I would be extremely grateful!
While some of these claims may seem ridiculous to you I assure you they are taken as gospel by the laymen that read and watch this video.
The first claim made is that Horus was born on December 25th, do we have any data on this?
The second claim is that Horus was baptized at 30 yrs old
The third claim is that Horus had 12 disciples and was called the lamb of god
The forth claim is that Horus was crucified
The fifth claim is that Horus was born of a virgin
And lastly that Horus was adored by 3 kings at his birth and there was a star in the East associated with his birth.

As you can see some quite fantastic claims that I might add are stated as fact, any input on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

The response
---------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. xxx

Thank you for your enquiry, which Vivian Davies has passed to me. All the claims are, as you suspect, quite without any Egyptological support or evidence. The fifth claim is demonstrably ridiculous when one considers the scenes on temple walls that show the resurrected god Osiris impregnating the goddess Isis (in the form of a bird) to beget Horus (e.g. [link to perso.orange.fr]

With best wishes
Dr R. B. Parkinson,
duty curator



Why was the link to the pic erased?

Why was the link to the pic erased?

WTH? Porn? I'm sending it to you

Why was the link to the pic erased?

WTH? Porn? I'm sending it to you



Wait what?

Are you joking? Surely hieroglyphics can't be labeled as such.

lol 1st off since we use Roman names in our months,some of whom were Roman gods does that mean we worship roman mythology. By you logic since we do and have used a calendar with roman gods it must have influenced the Declaration of Independence

After all it the document was adopted by Congress on July 4th a month named after Julias Ceasar and it is a National holiday



Your post is unresponsive and you know it. At least be forthright and admit it.

You posted this challenge.

No your post is nonsense..unless of course you think we worship roman gods and they because of our calendar influnce us. Yes or No?



True or false.

The beginning of the month in the Babylonian calendar was determined by the direct observation by priests of the young crescent moon at sunset after the astronomical New Moon.

This custom is continued in Judaism with the principle that the new calendar day begins at sunset.

Prior to the Babylonian captivity the Jews did not calculate days using the sunset.

The Jews did not calculate their Sabbath as we know it until they took the calculation from the Babylonian religion.

There are many more instances of the cultural influences that the Babylonian exile had to Judaism.

Key word..cultural influences. You still avoid the OP Show a direct influ of a mystery religion,mythology on the Gospels and the person of Jesus Christ. If not your hijacking the thread on your tangent of a calendar which I've pointed out is a non-issue



This thread has spawned a whole list of other debates...

"I don't know the answer so look over here please!!"

lol

Why was the link to the pic erased?

WTH? Porn? I'm sending it to you



Wait what?

Are you joking? Surely hieroglyphics can't be labeled as such.

You got me? Its the only thing I can think of...I didn't remove it and only a mod or the Op could have

Why was the link to the pic erased?

WTH? Porn? I'm sending it to you



Wait what?

Are you joking? Surely hieroglyphics can't be labeled as such.

You got me? Its the only thing I can think of...I didn't remove it and only a mod or the Op could have



It was removed along with my response to it. I would like to know why. My response was a little edgy maybe because I said 'bird humper' *snicker...., but the pic was a valid source.

The premise of this thread is that pagan gods had no influence on the writing of the Gospels.



If you consider the inclusion of a significant pagan presence in the Hebrew calendar in the Old Testament, which is then used to set dates in the New Testament, then your premise fails.

The beginning of the month in the Babylonian calendar was determined by the direct observation by priests of the young crescent moon at sunset after the astronomical New Moon.

This custom is continued in Judaism with the principle that the new calendar day begins at sunset.

That's a significant pagan presence since the Babylonian calendar is a religious calendar of their pagan gods.

The bible also uses Babylonian names for months:

The Babylonian month of Nisan is found in: Neh 2:1, Est 3:7

The Babylonian month of Sivan is found in Est. 8:9

The Babylonian month of Elul is found in Neh 6:15

The Babylonian month of Kislev is found in Zec 7:1, Neh 1:1, Est 2:16

The Babylonian month of Shebat is found in Zec 1:7

The Babylonian month of Adar is found in Est 3:13, Est 8:12, Est 9:1, Est 9:15-21, Ezra 6:15


Nice posts.


You are both mistaken. The Babylonians then and now worship the sun. Their calendar then and now is solar based. The biblical mosaic calendar was based on the new moons.

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

Then there is that whole source material problem....

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

Then there is that whole source material problem....



Sorry, you guys have already been busted on the Babylonian sunset Sabbath that determined today's Easter celebration.

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

Then there is that whole source material problem....



Sorry, you guys have already been busted on the Babylonian sunset Sabbath that determined today's Easter celebration.



What does that have to do with the thread title?

Oh right..NOTHING!

Easter is not scripture...

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

Then there is that whole source material problem....



Sorry, you guys have already been busted on the Babylonian sunset Sabbath that determined today's Easter celebration.



What does that have to do with the thread title?

Oh right..NOTHING!

Easter is not scripture...



If you reach any farther you're going to fall off your chair.

You can't admit you're wrong.

Christ rose from the dead after the Sabbath. It's in scripture, remember?

The Jews adopted the Babylonian religious practice of setting the Sabbath at sunset. If they had not done so, Jesus would not have to have been taken down from the cross the way that he was. He would not have risen when he did.

The OT books of Ezra and Nehemiah address the sunset to sunset calculation of the Sabbath.

As I said in my original post, these two books also use the Babylonian names for the months and they were written after the Babylonian captivity.

It's really disturbing that you can't admit it when you've been proven wrong.

A challenge was offered and you guys are trying to weasel out of it. You're wasting people's time and it reflects badly on your credibility as a Christian.

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

Then there is that whole source material problem....



Sorry, you guys have already been busted on the Babylonian sunset Sabbath that determined today's Easter celebration.



What does that have to do with the thread title?

Oh right..NOTHING!

Easter is not scripture...



If you reach any farther you're going to fall off your chair.

You can't admit you're wrong.

Christ rose from the dead after the Sabbath. It's in scripture, remember?

The Jews adopted the Babylonian religious practice of setting the Sabbath at sunset. If they had not done so, Jesus would not have to have been taken down from the cross the way that he was. He would not have risen when he did.

The OT books of Ezra and Nehemiah address the sunset to sunset calculation of the Sabbath.

As I said in my original post, these two books also use the Babylonian names for the months and they were written after the Babylonian captivity.

It's really disturbing that you can't admit it when you've been proven wrong.

A challenge was offered and you guys are trying to weasel out of it. You're wasting people's time and it reflects badly on your credibility as a Christian.



The only weaseling here is you, as you have spouted much and backed up little......
What I have cited on here I have had references, and so has the OP (and they weren't Wiki btw).

So if you wish to continue post up the references, and if you feel it is a waste of time, by all means go somewhere else.

Show me one bit of evidence that the OT predicted the coming of GOD into a human form! No rabbi believes that the OT predicts the coming of God in a human form and the jews wrote the OT! Not one shred of evidence exists. The only Messiah acknowledged in the OT is Cyrus the Great.

So where did Christians get the idea to deify Jesus?????????
It was the popular custom of that time to deify leaders and refer to them as Lord and Savior. It was usually done after they had ascended to heaven but could occur while still living. Jews would never deify any man but the Pagans would.

Case closed. You lose.

The Jews adopted the Babylonian religious practice of setting the Sabbath at sunset. If they had not done so, Jesus would not have to have been taken down from the cross the way that he was. He would not have risen when he did.

The OT books of Ezra and Nehemiah address the sunset to sunset calculation of the Sabbath.

As I said in my original post, these two books also use the Babylonian names for the months and they were written after the Babylonian captivity.

The name Lucifer was given to the morning star (Venus) thousands of years before Christianity. It was al adapted from astrology.

As the old testament describes how people in that period of history were dealing with religion and 'God', the same goes for the New testament.

In the new testament their religious believes were presented in more 'humanistic' values, in the person of Jesus Christ.

I think the person called Jesus Christ really existed, and had a lot of good things to say: food for thought.

But the idea of Jesus being some 'divine' being is exaggerated of course.