Quantum Crap: Another FAIL. Nobody knows the time an electron takes to transition states and emit photons!

What's this have to do with Trump?

Instant. Infinite.

Spooky action at a distance. Same principle

depends on the atom

An electron gonna do what an electron gotta do...

Come on electron and give it up for that photon.

Those electrons have a mind of their on. They be on CPT sometimes.

I would say that the jumping from one energy level to another, is just a mentally friendly explanation that fits obseration, but is not really what's happening. Like you said, no one really knows what's going on.

The electron travels back in time once it emits the photon leaving it where it should have been all along.

The fail is related to the wavelength of the photon/EM wave that the electron emits.

To show some numbers, on average, an electron orbits an atom (as a particle or cloud of probabilities) between 0.03 and 0.3 nanometers, with 0.15 nm average. The orbit, then, is about ONE nanometer LONG.

When matter is excited (for instance, molted iron), the electron are excited, gain energy, goes to a higher state of energy and decay after a while (this time is known) emiting photons/EM waves of an average color yellow-orange.

The wavelength of this color is about 560 nanometers, wich is 560 times larger than the minimal de Broglie wavelength (an electron behaves as a wave). The associated frequency is about 1,000 Terahertz, so the period of the visible wave is about 0.001 picoseconds (ONE Femtosecond).

In order to have a "photon/EM wave" of at least ONE PERIOD (think of a single sinewave), the electron should last into the transition state for, at least, ONE Femtosecond (0.001 ps)

But ONE Wavelength doesn't make a photon, nor it does make an EM Wave.

At least 100,000 or 1 million wavelenghts should exist to call it LIGHT. But, it LAST from 0.1 to 1 nanoseconds. And THESE values are an eternity at the atomic level.

It is worse if you consider the infrared radiation of the molten iron (the heat that you feel being close), because the wavelengths are between TWO and ONE HUNDRED times larger, and so is the time. The period of a single infrared wavelength last between 0.2 nanoseconds to 0.1 microseconds.

So, the mystery that is unsolved for 100 years is: HOW MUCH TIME LAST THE TRANSITION OF AN ELECTRON FROM HIGHER TO LOWER STATES?

And how come is this related to the assumed WavePacket emited (IF SUCH THING EXISTS).


See? They know nothing, yet engineers ignore this shit and make chips, optoelectronics, laser amplifiers, etc.

Crappy science is what I call this: A fundamental question remain unanswered. Why?

BECAUSE SCIENCE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT AN ATOM IS AND HOW DOES IT RELATES TO OTHERS AND TO ENERGY.

Alchemia is what Quantum Physics should be called.

Utter ignorance and PURE EMPIRICISM.

And to add INSULT TO THE INJURY, Planck invested almost 20 years (1895-1916) searching, is dismay, where was his theory of quanta of action (photon) embedded in the uber-genius of Maxwell.

And he failed those 21 years, giving up after 1916. He was an insecure theoretical physicist (famous at thermodynamics but weak), what lead him to seek support from Einstein (he allowed, as master editor of Annalen der Physiks) the publication of the photoelectric effect paper by 1905 (all of them, without peer-review), brought Einstein to Germany by 1912 and PROTECTED HIM up to 1933, when Einstein fled to USA.

What Planck didn't know is ASTONISHING SIMPLE, but unknown until early 1920's.

Maxwell's theory of electromagnetism doesn't contain the concept of an EMITING SOURCE under the form of a DIPOLE ANTENNA.

When radiocommunications advanced and the figure of a DIPOLE as an antenna was recognized as the MOST ELEMENTARY type of antenna (even at atomic level), everything fall in their places-

When Maxwell's equations are applied to a dipole, at wich electrons oscillates from one end to the other, the CHARGE of the electron is introduced into the equations, PLUS some parameters related to the size of the dipole and the wavelength.

Then, having the landscape complete (transmitter plus antenna), the ENERGY of a SINGLE WAVELENGTH is related directly with the Planck constant h.

OK, Planck, Einstein, Bohr and so many didn't know about radiotransmission with dipoles or the structure of the atom by 1916. They were making theories after theories, until Quantum Mechanics was born, about 1925/1926.

But, WHY scientists didn't make it public in the last 90 years? Why Maxwell is not credited enough as the Founding Father of Modern Physics? Because he was scottish?

Go figure.

:ohlook:

I'm sorry for not being able to post crap about existencial angst, sex, racism, religion, gossip, lunatic subjects, sociology, apocalypse or things like that.

This thread is addressed to the 5% of GLPers interested in technical subjects.

If Nobody knows there is no need to worry...

The Farce of Modern Physics (all branches) has to stop.

A redesign for the last 112 years theories is neccesary, as well as to dismantle Academia Corp and all kind of intellectually gifted parasites that live under their umbrella!

In some way, politics has to be displaced from science, and forbidden. TPTB stablishment, worldwide, is unsustainable, as complexity grows exponentially while answers do linearly.

OK. No interest.

But, to be known: The quantum model of states, transitions and emition/absortion of energy is wrong.

There are no photons/waves emited or absorbed by electrons. There is something else that IS NOT USING TRANSITIONS between "orbits" of electrons.

The Quantum model of atoms, based on different orbits or probability clouds is false. What the equations show, that works in practice, is not a PHYSICAL transition between SPATIAL "clouds of probabilities", but something else.

All of the electrons are togheter, at the same distance from nuclei, but having different behavior wich make each one incompatible with other's spatial position or distribution.

And this mechanism hasn't been discovered yet.

It's the only way to explain why it is unknown how much time it takes to transition between "energy states".

So, the Thomsom's model makes more sense than the newer ones.

Fuck Schrodinger/Born model.

I meant Rutherford Model, not Thomson.

But instead of different physical orbits, electrons live togheter (as probability clouds) being each one incompatible with others, according to their energy levels.

There are not PHYSICAL transitions to/from different spatial locations but to/from different vibrational states, at wich electrons with different energy levels vibrate with different frequencies and amplitudes.

Being that, electrons with different levels of energy are not RESONANT with other, so they don't collide or repel.

No orbits, no different spatial coordinates or clouds of probabilities. They are togheter at the same spherical shell, but can't relate one to each other.

Schrodinger/de Broglie equations are just lucky elaborations.

So, there is not relevant the time required to make a transition to different coordinates but, instead, from/to different states of energy (and frequency+amplitude of resonances).

This can be closer to the truth, except for the planetary model. Substitute orbits with oscillations at different frequencies and amplitudes.

Here is an APPROXIMATION to the truth, from the 1914 model.

Keep posting, I love an actual intelligent thread about one of my favorite subjects,...



5 stars for intelligence!

You are confused and your post is gobbledygook.

It's a simple photon being emitted as a quanta particle. The only reason no one knows the time it takes is because of the uncertainty principle.

Modern Physics 101.

Says the guy who can't understand it.

Its just mhd,thats dependent on the current magnetic field that is available.compared to the magnetic field of the atom.with varying fields on earth compared to deep space,the time amount changes.
Quantum and that goddamn cat are a fucking joke.mhd explains everything just fine!

I'm an edward leedskalnin sort of person, okay you nonproliferation shitsmaker?

leedskalnin says there is no neutron. only protons and electrons.

there's no such thing as discrete energy. you can go by atomic weight for a measurement, but you can't go by electronic electrons for a sense of energy.

energy is a direction, it's not a thing. it's a measurement of a flow, it's not the flow thing. that thing where it goes through, when it recoils, it's only energy going through energy, two forms of energy, one going faster than the other. so that extra blob (photon) that pops out when the other one is going back, it's only energy. it's a greasy ionic thing regarding certain quasiparticles. and none of that is measured in your argument for satan on glp.

and you lie to say nobody on earth knows. lies lies lies.

1000 nanometers or greater....black box? no such thing. heated, you mean calorimetrically shaped? shit scientist, that's you OP.

Fuck you OP, masturbating over Farsi.

you say there are no photons/waves emited (sic) or absorbed by electrons.

My spacegator says you're wrong.

Are we talking about the same thing here or are we talking about condoms?

Slippery Ions. and mu waves.

All electrons together same distance from nuclei == OP IS A BIG MOTHERFUCKING LIAR ON THAT. SUCK MY F-BOMB AT YOUR COLLEGE OP YOU ROTTON TRANSVESTITE DONKEYTRAINER.

I dare you to make a wide search and post here a SINGLE ONE ANSWER to this question. Use professional sites for physics.

If you come with an answer, I'll NEVER POST AGAIN HERE.



Question: What is the time it take for an electron to jump from a higher energy state to a lower one, while emiting a photon (with energy E=hf)?

You are an idiot, and I feel sorry for you.

I solved, for practice, the MODIFIED Schrodinger equation for the Hydrogen atom, just to learn it. The modification was made by Max Born, who took all of the eigenvalues that are a solution for this equation, squared all of them, and called it a PROBABILITY DISTRIBUTION FUNCTION.

Schrodinger was SO MAD at it, that he RETIRED from physics and went to England to teach Philosophy. He, in an interview years later, said: I DEEPLY REGRET THAT I WROTE THAT EQUATION. IF I COULD GO BACK IN TIME, I WOULDN'T HAD WRITTEN IT.

Why Schrodinger said that? Because he said that HIS solutions squared were a distribution of the energy of the electron. He NEVER MEANT that his equation was to be used statistically, as Born did. Max Born is the one who introduced the Probability Cloud, the collapse of the Wave Function and the crap that the current physics is today. He was heavily supported by Bohr and Heisenberg.

The Schrodinger equation has its foundation in the general equation of waves for massless particles (sound, light).

Here you can compare the differences. Google what a Laplacian is.

Scrhrodinger equation for electron waves. Potential Energy zero. Polar coordinates. Particles with mass m:

Laplacian W(r,t) = -i2m/h . d/dt W(r,t)

Sound or light Vector Wave Equation (massless particles):

Laplacian E(r,t) = 1/v^2 . d^2/dt^2 E(r,t)

Can you see the similarities and differences? This is because the general equation for waves if for massless particles, while Schrodinger one is for an electron with mass m.

PLUS: A wave equation W(r,t) (in polar coordinates) has TIME as a variable. It allows to find solutions that gives you waves that travel LINEARLY in space. Capito?

There is NO SOLUTION for a wave equation that has to move in a circular path! OK?

So, what the geniuses did to SOLVE such a problem?

THEY SUPRESSED TIME from the Schrodinger equation.

So, the new equation has only spatial coordinates (x,y,z) or (r,Theta, Phi). The last one is in polar coordinates.

Also, besides SUPPRESSING TIME, Born and the gang forced to adopt ONLY eigenfuctions as a result (type eExp(nmsd).

The name is impressive, but the meaning is not:

An eigenfunction is a function whose derivate or integral gives you the SAME FUNCTION plus some parameter.

And only eExp(jkj), sin(lkk) or cos(kjj) satisfy that.

THERE!

That's the FUCKING QUANTUM MECHANICS: A FALSE CONSTRUCT OF PROBABILITIES WITH TIME ABSENT.

They needed that, otherwise they wouldn't have found a single fucking solution.

Now, don't downplay me.

Hola mi guacho amigo! I can recommend a few Universities that offer courses in quantum physics.

And, FINALLY, the fact that TIME is ABSENT for all the solutions of the modified Schrodinger Wave Function Equation, and only spatial variables are present at the very beggining of Quantum Mechanics, explain the question that is in the Subject of this thread!


Why nobody knows the time an electron takes to transition states and emit photons (or absorb them)?

Because Quantum Mechanics models for atoms (and molecules) is based only on SPATIAL DISTRIBUTIONS of electrons, being the variable time ABSENT from the DAY ZERO, at such a "science".

So, having equations whose results correctly predicts the spectral emission/absortion of the Hydrogen atom and other much more complex (can't be modeled without a powerful computer), you can have Quantum Mechanics extended to Quantum Chemistry, Quantum Optics, Solid State Physics, etc.

In the later case (Solid State Physics) QM is used not entirely, so time is reintroduced. It allows to device microelectronics and optoelectronics, wich are heavily time dependant.

And regarding a comment about the "Uncertainty Principle", it doesn't prevent to know a RANGE OF VALUES for that ABSENT TIME. You, maybe, can't get an exact answer but can get a very good estimate of the duration of the transition IF TIME WOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED into the original model of QM.

/End

Seems that would make a PHOTON to be just REMaNEnCE - a residual magnetism ---

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Hey, Palaguan or Molbog (sorry I don't recognize your tribe).

Can you tell me the name of the pal that is writing for you at the computer? Just to be more familiar with both of you.

How was your fishing trip. Was it good for you? Enough fishes to feed your family?

How did you learn that such a thing as University exist? I'm intrigued.

GTFO!

I've refuted you dozens of times here and you never can come up with a coherent answer or even understand what I'm posting.

Why should I believe anything has changed or would be different this time.

Oh, and I've referenced dozens of well established sources that refute everything you post...time after time after time.

You simply do not have the mental capacity to understand these concepts from physics.

Here is a hint. Every time you get stuck on understanding something take those words and do a google search and you'll find your answers just like everyone else on the planet does.

Being different doesn't make you more insightful just different and wrong and uneducated.

Take care

------ and so ;creation; of somewhat higher dimensional emanation field s phantom -like

see picture 2.53

There are no electrons and there are no photons.

I did not say there is no charge and there is no light, but there are none of these so-called particles.

Oh it's the anti science guy again... really boring to watch you be schooled repeatedly, but kinda like a train wreck you just can't stop watching.