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If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 06:58 PM
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If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Most Christians are ultra-conformists, disingenuous, play actors. "Play actors" was the term Christ used when he called the church-goers of his day "hypocrites." I guess there's nothing new under the sun.

Why can't Christians see how ironic it is? They claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but they live lives of ultra-conformity. It's really quite amazing, what's going on here?
Random

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04/16/2007 07:01 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
They weren't conformists before they came to power in Rome, they were counterculture: then power corrupted the institution of Christianity and the priests demanded conformity from the laity.

It's more complicated than that, but the Church is obssessed with Order and values that above all else: hence to application of spiritual fascism in Christ's name.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 07:02 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Most Christians are ultra-conformists, disingenuous, play actors.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224214


thumbs
ac
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04/16/2007 07:03 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
most Christians, the overty pious, fire and brimstone types are the anti-christs of the end times. They are the ones driving us to armaggedon.
their fervent hatred for the truly christ like christians will destroy the church on eaarth.
slightly retarded republican
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04/16/2007 07:04 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Most Christians are ultra-conformists, disingenuous, play actors. "Play actors" was the term Christ used when he called the church-goers of his day "hypocrites." I guess there's nothing new under the sun.

Why can't Christians see how ironic it is? They claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but they live lives of ultra-conformity. It's really quite amazing, what's going on here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224214


Conformity is preached from the pulpit because obedience guarantees rewards
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 07:07 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
They weren't conformists before they came to power in Rome, they were counterculture: then power corrupted the institution of Christianity and the priests demanded conformity from the laity.

It's more complicated than that, but the Church is obssessed with Order and values that above all else: hence to application of spiritual fascism in Christ's name.
 Quoting: Random


I'm talking about individuals right now. How can they study their bible and read about Christ's rebelliousness and watch movies that portray Christ's rebelliousness then go back to their lives of ultra-conformity and claim to be followers of Christ?

I understand it from the elite's perspective (religion is just another control mechanism). But, from the individual's perspective, how can you claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but live a life of ultra-conformity?
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 07:11 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Most Christians are ultra-conformists, disingenuous, play actors. "Play actors" was the term Christ used when he called the church-goers of his day "hypocrites." I guess there's nothing new under the sun.

Why can't Christians see how ironic it is? They claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but they live lives of ultra-conformity. It's really quite amazing, what's going on here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224214



One word…Legalism
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 07:11 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Obedience to God, or obedience to their view of morality?

For some, having a beer is enough to keep you from Eternal Glory, for others its enjoying a smoke, or a cup of coffee.

Some think that looking at in issue of Playboy is bad.

Some think that you have to dance with snakes, speak in tongues or Pig Latin, while convulsing on the stage like an epileptic ( "Sister in the Lord" types refer to this as being filled with the Spirit)

Where are the moderates? People who show with their down to earth spirituality that they really have God's Spirit?

Where are these people organized as a church, because if you could tell me, man I would go to church in a heartbeat.

I feel that every single organized religion that claims to be Christian that I have investigated is putting on a show of false piousness.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 07:12 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Most Christians are ultra-conformists, disingenuous, play actors. "Play actors" was the term Christ used when he called the church-goers of his day "hypocrites." I guess there's nothing new under the sun.

Why can't Christians see how ironic it is? They claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but they live lives of ultra-conformity. It's really quite amazing, what's going on here?


Conformity is preached from the pulpit because obedience guarantees rewards
 Quoting: slightly retarded republican 224215


So they listen to their preacher over the message and example set by their Saviour? I guess these really are the people Christ was talking about when he said: "Then I will tell them publicly, 'I've never known you. Get away from me, you evil people.'"
MuadDib987

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04/16/2007 07:12 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
But, from the individual's perspective, how can you claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but live a life of ultra-conformity?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224214


Good question, but I'm curious what you specifically mean. Conformity on what level?
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
SpectrumBlue

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04/16/2007 07:12 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
It happens. Punks were non-conformist and now the whole 80's punk look is in. Almost every teenager and young adult is wearing it. Same with goth, and other types of "rebellious" fashions and philosophies. People adopt it and think they're creative and new untill everyone starts doing it, then they complain about how the other people aren't even doing it right and aren't truly "goth" or "punk" or "sexy emo geek" they're just doing it because it's popular at the moment.

It's pretty much like religions today.
Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 07:16 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
But, from the individual's perspective, how can you claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but live a life of ultra-conformity?


Good question, but I'm curious what you specifically mean. Conformity on what level?
 Quoting: MuadDib987


Quoting Jim Marrs:

"I live in rural Texas which is pretty conservative and pretty much Bush country, and they're strangely quite about this (911, patriot act, wars in the mid-east, etc.). I think they're disquietened about what's going on because they don't really know what to do about it and I try to explain to them, this is why Gore could not be allowed to take the White House. This is why they had to get the Supreme Court to place George Bush in the White House. Because if Gore would have gotten in, the very same things would have happened, we would have had 911, we would invaded Afghanistan, we would have invaded Iraq, because that was part of the plan. Ok? The difference would have been that as a perceived liberal democrat, that right-wing, conservative, republican bunch would have raised hell about his stripping of the constitution and about his adventurism around the world. But, with Bush in office, it kept 'em muted. And I've heard many of 'em say, "I don't really agree with what's going on", but they can't bring themselves to get up and raise Cain about it because, he's their guy. Or at least that's the perception."

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 07:17 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
But, from the individual's perspective, how can you claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but live a life of ultra-conformity?


Good question, but I'm curious what you specifically mean. Conformity on what level?
 Quoting: MuadDib987


Quoting Jim Marrs:

"I live in rural Texas which is pretty conservative and pretty much Bush country, and they're strangely quite about this (911, patriot act, wars in the mid-east, etc.). I think they're disquietened about what's going on because they don't really know what to do about it and I try to explain to them, this is why Gore could not be allowed to take the White House. This is why they had to get the Supreme Court to place George Bush in the White House. Because if Gore would have gotten in, the very same things would have happened, we would have had 911, we would invaded Afghanistan, we would have invaded Iraq, because that was part of the plan. Ok? The difference would have been that as a perceived liberal democrat, that right-wing, conservative, republican bunch would have raised hell about his stripping of the constitution and about his adventurism around the world. But, with Bush in office, it kept 'em muted. And I've heard many of 'em say, "I don't really agree with what's going on", but they can't bring themselves to get up and raise Cain about it because, he's their guy. Or at least that's the perception."

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 07:20 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
It's pretty much like religions today.
 Quoting: SpectrumBlue


If someone tells you that they follow a rebel and they base their whole life on this rebel's statements and beliefs, you expect them to be somewhat rebellious don't you? Not when they're Christians. lol
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 07:41 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
bump
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 07:42 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Actually this is really not something that is new. paul the apostle who started churches everywhere and spoke the gospel that 1000's of people converted to and followed, ended up dying a pretty lonely guy in prison with only a couple of close and true friends. Almost all of the christians even in the first century conformed after traditions of men.

probably over 95% of mainstream christianity today would also have forsaken what Paul was given to teach them regarding the gospel and disfellowshipped him as a heretic.
SpectrumBlue

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04/16/2007 07:48 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
It's pretty much like religions today.


If someone tells you that they follow a rebel and they base their whole life on this rebel's statements and beliefs, you expect them to be somewhat rebellious don't you? Not when they're Christians. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224214


I'm rebellious by my own church's standards. But I don't care. Those scriptures don't tell you everything.

And if I want to wear pants to church, dang it, I will wear pants to church! I don't need any snot nosed relief society president telling me God doesn't want me to wear pants. He's just happy I actually came.

:nyao?:
Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 07:49 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
One word…Legalism
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 181321



Very true ... but most people not acquainted with theology do not really know what "legalism" is ...

My short definition would be that legalism is the limited, unregenerate, unenlighted self attempting to "reform" and "raise" itself into a status of divine "favor" by attempting to reform itself and conform itself to outward laws, rules, standards, and mandates in an attempt to "grow itself" into expressing the divine nature.

Opposed to "legalism" would be the spontaneous freedom of real raw Being flowing from a deep inner wellspring of spiritual Power and Energy that results from a rebirth/regeneration wherby the little 'ole ego self has been transcended and permeated by the Divine energy.

If the Divine Spirit is impelling you, all outer actions will be appropriate for the occassion, and might indeed often resist and rebuff and expose the "Establishment" with its hypocritical outward show of ethics and morality and phoney religiosity. Jesus exemplified all of this. He lambasted the religio-politico status quo of His time.

Legalism is phoney "wannabe" ... and is ego based.

Spirituality is real living and being from a deeper wellspring ...

Spirituality/Flow/Grace might often step on toes -- especially the false and corrupt institutions of this world. And yet at other times it might not step on those toes ...

Spirit works through each of It's individual channels according to the necessity and conditions of the present moment, within a larger Universal context ...

Life in legalism is scripted and tense and false and self-aware ...

Life in Spirit is free, genuine, spontaneous, inspired, unpredictable ... and truly righteous for all concerned.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 07:55 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
One word…Legalism



Very true ... but most people not acquainted with theology do not really know what "legalism" is ...

My short definition would be that legalism is the limited, unregenerate, unenlighted self attempting to "reform" and "raise" itself into a status of divine "favor" by attempting to reform itself and conform itself to outward laws, rules, standards, and mandates in an attempt to "grow itself" into expressing the divine nature.

Opposed to "legalism" would be the spontaneous freedom of real raw Being flowing from a deep inner wellspring of spiritual Power and Energy that results from a rebirth/regeneration wherby the little 'ole ego self has been transcended and permeated by the Divine energy.

If the Divine Spirit is impelling you, all outer actions will be appropriate for the occassion, and might indeed often resist and rebuff and expose the "Establishment" with its hypocritical outward show of ethics and morality and phoney religiosity. Jesus exemplified all of this. He lambasted the religio-politico status quo of His time.

Legalism is phoney "wannabe" ... and is ego based.

Spirituality is real living and being from a deeper wellspring ...

Spirituality/Flow/Grace might often step on toes -- especially the false and corrupt institutions of this world. And yet at other times it might not step on those toes ...

Spirit works through each of It's individual channels according to the necessity and conditions of the present moment, within a larger Universal context ...

Life in legalism is scripted and tense and false and self-aware ...

Life in Spirit is free, genuine, spontaneous, inspired, unpredictable ... and truly righteous for all concerned.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 163819



Yep….that looks about right….Thanks for clarifying that for our dear friends here.


hf
CI
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04/16/2007 07:59 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
EXCELLENT point, OP.

Christ's message and teachings were so dangerous and offensive that the people wanted to kill Him and his disciples.

What you have today are these JUDEO-Christians churches that have been emasculated, where they teach you to be a good little slave, pay your taxes, obey the government and don't get involved in politics. Just show up and play church. Have bingo nites and bake sales.

The only branch of Christianity today whose teachings are "turning the world upside down" as in Christ's day is CHRISTIAN IDENTITY.

If you want to lose all your friends and be ostracized in the community, become an Identity Christian and tell everyone.

You may also find your liberty, property and LIFE under attack .....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 08:04 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
EXCELLENT point, OP.

Christ's message and teachings were so dangerous and offensive that the people wanted to kill Him and his disciples.

What you have today are these JUDEO-Christians churches that have been emasculated, where they teach you to be a good little slave, pay your taxes, obey the government and don't get involved in politics. Just show up and play church. Have bingo nites and bake sales.

The only branch of Christianity today whose teachings are "turning the world upside down" as in Christ's day is CHRISTIAN IDENTITY.

If you want to lose all your friends and be ostracized in the community, become an Identity Christian and tell everyone.

You may also find your liberty, property and LIFE under attack .....
 Quoting: CI 108985


Thanks for that. hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 08:10 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
EXCELLENT point, OP.

Christ's message and teachings were so dangerous and offensive that the people wanted to kill Him and his disciples.

What you have today are these JUDEO-Christians churches that have been emasculated, where they teach you to be a good little slave, pay your taxes, obey the government and don't get involved in politics. Just show up and play church. Have bingo nites and bake sales.

The only branch of Christianity today whose teachings are "turning the world upside down" as in Christ's day is CHRISTIAN IDENTITY.

If you want to lose all your friends and be ostracized in the community, become an Identity Christian and tell everyone.

You may also find your liberty, property and LIFE under attack .....
 Quoting: CI 108985


The largest Christian Identity movement has traditionally been the Ku Klux Klan which was reorganized in 1915 by William Simmons, a Christian pastor. He had been inspired by the film The Birth of a Nation which portrayed the KKK as a champion of white civilization. The KKK slid into obscurity by the second World War, but was revitalized in the mid 1950's as a reaction to enforced racial integration in the southern US.

[link to www.religioustolerance.org]
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 08:11 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
EXCELLENT point, OP.

Christ's message and teachings were so dangerous and offensive that the people wanted to kill Him and his disciples.

What you have today are these JUDEO-Christians churches that have been emasculated, where they teach you to be a good little slave, pay your taxes, obey the government and don't get involved in politics. Just show up and play church. Have bingo nites and bake sales.

The only branch of Christianity today whose teachings are "turning the world upside down" as in Christ's day is CHRISTIAN IDENTITY.

If you want to lose all your friends and be ostracized in the community, become an Identity Christian and tell everyone.

You may also find your liberty, property and LIFE under attack .....
 Quoting: CI 108985



Christian Identity, or "Reconstructionism" -- "Dominion Theology" -- is a CROCK OF SHIT because Jesus plainly said He did not come to overthrow the status quo, and said that His kingdom "is not of this world." He indeed exposed and cast light on the corrupt world-system ... but He did not attempt at that time to overthrow it or replace.

The Spirit is not here now to actively resist or overthrow the government, or change the world and institute a so-called "Christian" agenda in politics and on the world stage. Such is a false path and a total waste of time. There exists no over-riding institutional church organization whose role is to "change" this "present evil age."

Dominion theology thus represents deluded legalists who are part of the problem ... not the solution. They give Christianity a bad name with all of their loud-mouth in-your-face social agenda. It actually makes me sick ...
MuadDib987

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04/16/2007 08:12 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Also, when you have a good-ol'-boy in the white house, who claims he's a christian, you know ever'things a-gonna be A-OK, which frees us up to go on auto-pilot.

A large portion of America's church population have not yet abandoned the Us-versus-Them, tug-of-war, strengh-in-numbers mentality that the Gospel calls us to ditch. In some cases, christians are little more than gang members who happen to have joined the "right" gang: the one defending old time conservative values and the status quo, and unwilling to continually assess whether they're on the right track.

These are the very people I enjoy informing that the Old Testament uses the word 'piss' several times. That is *not* a churchly word, but it's in scripture and they need their boat rocked a little.

The letter to the Laodiceans in Revelation 3 is addressed to a group who is comfy, well-fed, and lukewarm. I think this accurately describes far too many of us.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
mathetes

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04/16/2007 08:29 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Most Christians are ultra-conformists, disingenuous, play actors. "Play actors" was the term Christ used when he called the church-goers of his day "hypocrites." I guess there's nothing new under the sun.

Why can't Christians see how ironic it is? They claim to follow one of the greatest rebels of all time but they live lives of ultra-conformity. It's really quite amazing, what's going on here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224214

You make the same mistake as people in his time did, they thought the Messiah would overturn the world order of the day, Jesus taught that his Kingdom was not of this world( It will be soon)we are not to fight for his Kingdom and we are also taught that:"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." Is politics of God or Caesar? Caesar of course, something I wish certain Christian leaders would understand!
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 08:31 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Standing in stark contrast to and contrary to much if not most if not all of this culture is hardly conforming.
Genius.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 08:32 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
eyes not to see
and ears not to hear

guess what?

are blind and deaf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 08:43 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
Standing in stark contrast to and contrary to much if not most if not all of this culture is hardly conforming.
Genius.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 222466


You need to read this again, most Christians support the "culture" of the military-industrial complex. There's nothing more evil than that:

Quoting Jim Marrs:

"I live in rural Texas which is pretty conservative and pretty much Bush country, and they're strangely quite about this (911, patriot act, wars in the mid-east, etc.). I think they're disquietened about what's going on because they don't really know what to do about it and I try to explain to them, this is why Gore could not be allowed to take the White House. This is why they had to get the Supreme Court to place George Bush in the White House. Because if Gore would have gotten in, the very same things would have happened, we would have had 911, we would invaded Afghanistan, we would have invaded Iraq, because that was part of the plan. Ok? The difference would have been that as a perceived liberal democrat, that right-wing, conservative, republican bunch would have raised hell about his stripping of the constitution and about his adventurism around the world. But, with Bush in office, it kept 'em muted. And I've heard many of 'em say, "I don't really agree with what's going on", but they can't bring themselves to get up and raise Cain about it because, he's their guy. Or at least that's the perception."
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 08:47 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
They weren't conformists before they came to power in Rome, they were counterculture: then power corrupted the institution of Christianity and the priests demanded conformity from the laity.

It's more complicated than that, but the Church is obssessed with Order and values that above all else: hence to application of spiritual fascism in Christ's name.
 Quoting: Random



bingo!

~my kingdom is not of this world
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/16/2007 09:12 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
They weren't conformists before they came to power in Rome, they were counterculture: then power corrupted the institution of Christianity and the priests demanded conformity from the laity.

It's more complicated than that, but the Church is obssessed with Order and values that above all else: hence to application of spiritual fascism in Christ's name.



bingo!

~my kingdom is not of this world
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80449


That's key alright.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2007 09:14 PM
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Re: If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?
the word you are looking for is "churchians"
they are part of churchianity
can't be said to follow Christ
they follow men