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The Sun is too BRIGHT these days

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
United States
04/25/2007 10:28 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
88145 what is your function in the TV world? Since you guessed that I am a video user (and am not, Film rules) I am guessing you are an Engineer.

and since you started, could it be that TV stations change gear all the time and the exposure differences between old tube cameras, betacams, or new Digi cams have anything to do you with your experiences???

You are very smug sir. But that's just my opinion.

My advice to everyone, invest in Sun Screen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 207603


I certainly don't intend to appear smug, but astronomy and science is my passion and I see so much willful ignorance of it on here. It is very depressing. But it is certainly refressing to see the occasional reasonable and professional person on here. True it IS GLP...the land of the fruits and nuts, but I find it entertaining.

Yes, I am an engineer with a degree in electrical engineering and also a practicing PE. I am VP for Engineering and the Chief Technology Officer for a network of 11 TV stations and 8 radio stations. I also have a small internet based business making DSLR accessories for long exposure astrophotography (mostly Canon's) and modifying DSLR's for increased sensitivity at the hydrogen-alpha wavelengths critical for photography of emission nebulae. You can see some of my work at www.machunter.org/hapspics.html.

While, we do change the camera gear in broadcasting with the changes in technology, the standards for lighting, filtering and lenses stay the same. The number used for color balance by video engineers for broad noon daylight is 5600 degrees Kelvin and has been as long as I've been in the business (1977).
User # 78/68

User ID: 214681
Canada
04/27/2007 03:24 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
"I'm thinking that your high latitude and the localized clearer atmosphere mentioned earlier are responsible for your experiences."


WOW!
That's the best response you could come up with.
A professional photographer comes here and categorically says his cameras have to be adjusted different now than in the past and you say that???

He sees a change in the Sun and so do most of us. You need to rethink the garbage you feed people here. Anyone looking can see you for the fraud that you are.
Arg
User ID: 179883
United States
04/27/2007 05:09 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
well how about this...... some see it some don't.

i remember the sun when it was golden yellow, i can't go outside anymore without dark glasses on and a rimmed hat.

but anywho......


this is far fetched....hehe


the ones that can see this change in the sun are being readied and prepared for what is to come and happen.

the ones that don't see it, will live on as they are for a time
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 220562
United States
04/27/2007 07:49 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
well how about this...... some see it some don't.

i remember the sun when it was golden yellow, i can't go outside anymore without dark glasses on and a rimmed hat.

but anywho......


this is far fetched....hehe


the ones that can see this change in the sun are being readied and prepared for what is to come and happen.

the ones that don't see it, will live on as they are for a time
 Quoting: Arg 179883



I have also noticed that airline seats are getting smaller and smaller all the time. Don't tell me about your so-called facts saying that they are the same size, I know just by trying to sit down.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
United States
04/27/2007 08:50 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
well how about this...... some see it some don't.

i remember the sun when it was golden yellow, i can't go outside anymore without dark glasses on and a rimmed hat.

but anywho......


this is far fetched....hehe


the ones that can see this change in the sun are being readied and prepared for what is to come and happen.

the ones that don't see it, will live on as they are for a time



I have also noticed that airline seats are getting smaller and smaller all the time. Don't tell me about your so-called facts saying that they are the same size, I know just by trying to sit down.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 220562


Yeah...I noticed that I can't see things in as good a focus closeup as I could 30 years ago. What's up with that. Surely everything must be getting a little fuzzier. Can't possibly be my eyes. And those who can't see this are just government paid shills!
User # 78/68

User ID: 214681
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04/27/2007 11:08 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
"Yeah...I noticed that I can't see things in as good a focus closeup as I could 30 years ago. What's up with that. Surely everything must be getting a little fuzzier. Can't possibly be my eyes. And those who can't see this are just government paid shills!"



Oh, the old our eyes are getting older and we can't see so good anymore, feeble excuse.

Try a little harder shill. You're losing your debunker audience.

The AC photographer sure stuck a fork in you this time.
Anonymous
User ID: 229098
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04/27/2007 11:17 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
I'm a vision specialist. Specifically I work with Low vision clients and helping them learn what contrasts work best for different visual impairments. In order to do this I have to do the Ishihara Color Test quite regularly. I have no problems discerning color's. I DO remember a much more yellow sun from my youth and its change over the years. I could give a rats ass less on how much "proof" you can come up with to tell me people making these observations are all wrong.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20060
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04/27/2007 11:22 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
3657BC PX might ans. this.


SOON
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
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04/27/2007 01:25 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
I'm a vision specialist. Specifically I work with Low vision clients and helping them learn what contrasts work best for different visual impairments. In order to do this I have to do the Ishihara Color Test quite regularly. I have no problems discerning color's. I DO remember a much more yellow sun from my youth and its change over the years. I could give a rats ass less on how much "proof" you can come up with to tell me people making these observations are all wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous 229098


Well, then, as a professional in the field, you should have access to data showing that your contention is correct, right? Can you show any references that document a color change in the sun?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
United States
04/27/2007 01:28 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
"Yeah...I noticed that I can't see things in as good a focus closeup as I could 30 years ago. What's up with that. Surely everything must be getting a little fuzzier. Can't possibly be my eyes. And those who can't see this are just government paid shills!"



Oh, the old our eyes are getting older and we can't see so good anymore, feeble excuse.

Try a little harder shill. You're losing your debunker audience.

The AC photographer sure stuck a fork in you this time.
 Quoting: User # 78/68


No, he didn't. If you read his complete posts, you'll see that he agrees that his experience could be because of his local atmopspheric conditions. He mentions the Sunny 16 rule, which has been well known in photography circles for decades. Google it. There are thousands of references to it. Can you find where anyone says that it is now wrong?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
United States
04/27/2007 01:38 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
Oh, the old our eyes are getting older and we can't see so good anymore, feeble excuse.

Try a little harder shill. You're losing your debunker audience.

The AC photographer sure stuck a fork in you this time.
 Quoting: User # 78/68


I don't understand the process by which you cherry pick your data, 78/68. Why are changes in eyes more difficult to believe than changes in the Sun? We KNOW eyes are changing. Are you saying you believe there is no difference in vision or light sensitivity over the lifetime of a person or his eyes? Are you SURE you want to make that claim?

But, I'll ask the A/C, since I know you won't answer. Please provide data showing light meter settings in the past, say the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on, and how they have changed since the millennium. Or, better still, find photographic reference about light meters from books of those eras...or have they all secretly altered to hide the 'Sun is whiter and brighter?' Or show how refracted light has changed. If the base color of the Sun has changed, the spectrum MUST have changed as well -- you can't have such a CAUSE not have that EFFECT.

I know 78/68 HATES the mention of any kind of MEASUREMENT. After all, these claims, much as the Sun and Moon being out of place, should be accepted on their merits. Asking for measurements, or asking why certain effects continue to refuse to manifest, or why these amazing changes continue to lack the effects we expect? Why,that's just plain wrong of me. What could I be thinking?!?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229098
United States
04/27/2007 01:47 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
I'm a vision specialist. Specifically I work with Low vision clients and helping them learn what contrasts work best for different visual impairments. In order to do this I have to do the Ishihara Color Test quite regularly. I have no problems discerning color's. I DO remember a much more yellow sun from my youth and its change over the years. I could give a rats ass less on how much "proof" you can come up with to tell me people making these observations are all wrong.


Well, then, as a professional in the field, you should have access to data showing that your contention is correct, right? Can you show any references that document a color change in the sun?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145


My reference to my profession was about being able to correctly identify color's. There would not be any documentation in the field of low vision relating to eye conditions that deal with the sun's color over time (other then how different lighting conditions effect contrasts and visibility which covers indoor lighting as well, and is more of a wide spectrum analayzes of all lighting conditions with different visual impairments). I am saying that I REMEMBER IT, not that my field documents it. I'd happily get a nuero-psyche test for cognitive and recall impairments but I guarantee I will pass with flying colors... I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you, my only reason for posting was to let the few others that KNOW they have seen a change in the color that others think so too. And I don't pretend to understand if its changes in the atmosphere or the sun itself, it doesn't matter when the end result is the color looks different now.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 207603
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04/27/2007 01:51 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
88145 thanks for the discussion.

have a great weekend.

bump 4 sunny 16
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
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04/27/2007 01:53 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
My reference to my profession was about being able to correctly identify color's. There would not be any documentation in the field of low vision relating to eye conditions that deal with the sun's color over time (other then how different lighting conditions effect contrasts and visibility which covers indoor lighting as well, and is more of a wide spectrum analayzes of all lighting conditions with different visual impairments). I am saying that I REMEMBER IT, not that my field documents it. I'd happily get a nuero-psyche test for cognitive and recall impairments but I guarantee I will pass with flying colors... I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you, my only reason for posting was to let the few others that KNOW they have seen a change in the color that others think so too. And I don't pretend to understand if its changes in the atmosphere or the sun itself, it doesn't matter when the end result is the color looks different now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 229098


So, are you saying, as a professional, that there is no change in the way a subject perceives brightness or color over a lifetime? The colors and brightness of light we perceive as children are exactly the same colors and brightness we perceive as adults? There is no change in our eyes' sensitivity? Is there reference for this, please?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229098
United States
04/27/2007 02:44 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
My reference to my profession was about being able to correctly identify color's. There would not be any documentation in the field of low vision relating to eye conditions that deal with the sun's color over time (other then how different lighting conditions effect contrasts and visibility which covers indoor lighting as well, and is more of a wide spectrum analayzes of all lighting conditions with different visual impairments). I am saying that I REMEMBER IT, not that my field documents it. I'd happily get a nuero-psyche test for cognitive and recall impairments but I guarantee I will pass with flying colors... I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you, my only reason for posting was to let the few others that KNOW they have seen a change in the color that others think so too. And I don't pretend to understand if its changes in the atmosphere or the sun itself, it doesn't matter when the end result is the color looks different now.


So, are you saying, as a professional, that there is no change in the way a subject perceives brightness or color over a lifetime? The colors and brightness of light we perceive as children are exactly the same colors and brightness we perceive as adults? There is no change in our eyes' sensitivity? Is there reference for this, please?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444

That is not what I said.. I said that any documentation that shows those type of changes is in relation to ALL light spectrum. And the factors that change from childhood to adulthood are medical, thickness of lense, rods and cones becoming dormant, etc. etc. Most of the changes deal with the hardness and softness of the layers of the eye that effect focus. So just to be sure I double checked through some of my resources and found that the only thing I could relate to age again dealt with cases where the lense will start to become opage and makes color differentiation harder. BUT if a person DOES have this condition it adds a YELLOW Tint to existing lights making it harder to tell colors that are similar such as blue/green or red/orange, white light would look more like Yellow light. So Yes if anything the age related changes would make you think nothing has changed but if your eyes are HEALTHY YOU CAN SEE THE TRUTH... also you can read more on eye related info on [link to www.ext.colostate.edu]
Notice there is NOTHING about color change under the NORMAL changes due to age...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
United States
04/27/2007 04:33 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
I'm a vision specialist. Specifically I work with Low vision clients and helping them learn what contrasts work best for different visual impairments. In order to do this I have to do the Ishihara Color Test quite regularly. I have no problems discerning color's. I DO remember a much more yellow sun from my youth and its change over the years. I could give a rats ass less on how much "proof" you can come up with to tell me people making these observations are all wrong.


Well, then, as a professional in the field, you should have access to data showing that your contention is correct, right? Can you show any references that document a color change in the sun?


My reference to my profession was about being able to correctly identify color's. There would not be any documentation in the field of low vision relating to eye conditions that deal with the sun's color over time (other then how different lighting conditions effect contrasts and visibility which covers indoor lighting as well, and is more of a wide spectrum analayzes of all lighting conditions with different visual impairments). I am saying that I REMEMBER IT, not that my field documents it. I'd happily get a nuero-psyche test for cognitive and recall impairments but I guarantee I will pass with flying colors... I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you, my only reason for posting was to let the few others that KNOW they have seen a change in the color that others think so too. And I don't pretend to understand if its changes in the atmosphere or the sun itself, it doesn't matter when the end result is the color looks different now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 229098


The color of any luminous body is related to its surface temperature. Conversely, the temperature of a black-body object determines its spectral output with the dominant wavelengths determining it's visible color.

The sun is classified as a "yellow" star (G2) because of its chemistry. It's equivalent blackbody temperture is approximately 5600 degrees Kelvin which we perceive as slightly yellowish.

[link to hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu]

This is the color temperature generally recognised in photography as the color temperature of the sun overhead on a clear day. You can see this number referenced in some of the earliest texts on color photography and it is still used today. Take a look at the manual of your digital camera.

[link to www.daviddarling.info]

If the sun were to have changed color over just a few decades, then it would have HAD to have RADICALLY changed temperature. However, it's temperature is determined solely by the type of nuclear reactions going on and large temperature changes just don't happen out of nowhere. Likewise, we would already be scorched to a cinder if the sun had changed its blackbody temperature sufficiently for its color to change from yellowish to white.

However, it is common knowledge that many people develop light sensitivity as they age.

From

[link to www.rnib.org.uk]

"It is important to remember that there is a scale of light sensitivity. Some people are just more sensitive to light than others. Also as we grow older we can also become more sensitive to light, this is because the eye changes even though there is no disease."

"Even though there may be no physical cause for the light sensitivity it can sometimes be very intense. The advice about sunglasses and hats can often help someone with light sensitivity."

Therefore, what you may remember as a yellow sun percieved as a child, may now look glaringly (even painfully) white because of increased light sensitivity as we age.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229098
United States
04/27/2007 04:55 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
I'm a vision specialist. Specifically I work with Low vision clients and helping them learn what contrasts work best for different visual impairments. In order to do this I have to do the Ishihara Color Test quite regularly. I have no problems discerning color's. I DO remember a much more yellow sun from my youth and its change over the years. I could give a rats ass less on how much "proof" you can come up with to tell me people making these observations are all wrong.


Well, then, as a professional in the field, you should have access to data showing that your contention is correct, right? Can you show any references that document a color change in the sun?


My reference to my profession was about being able to correctly identify color's. There would not be any documentation in the field of low vision relating to eye conditions that deal with the sun's color over time (other then how different lighting conditions effect contrasts and visibility which covers indoor lighting as well, and is more of a wide spectrum analayzes of all lighting conditions with different visual impairments). I am saying that I REMEMBER IT, not that my field documents it. I'd happily get a nuero-psyche test for cognitive and recall impairments but I guarantee I will pass with flying colors... I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you, my only reason for posting was to let the few others that KNOW they have seen a change in the color that others think so too. And I don't pretend to understand if its changes in the atmosphere or the sun itself, it doesn't matter when the end result is the color looks different now.


The color of any luminous body is related to its surface temperature. Conversely, the temperature of a black-body object determines its spectral output with the dominant wavelengths determining it's visible color.

The sun is classified as a "yellow" star (G2) because of its chemistry. It's equivalent blackbody temperture is approximately 5600 degrees Kelvin which we perceive as slightly yellowish.

[link to hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu]

This is the color temperature generally recognised in photography as the color temperature of the sun overhead on a clear day. You can see this number referenced in some of the earliest texts on color photography and it is still used today. Take a look at the manual of your digital camera.

[link to www.daviddarling.info]

If the sun were to have changed color over just a few decades, then it would have HAD to have RADICALLY changed temperature. However, it's temperature is determined solely by the type of nuclear reactions going on and large temperature changes just don't happen out of nowhere. Likewise, we would already be scorched to a cinder if the sun had changed its blackbody temperature sufficiently for its color to change from yellowish to white.

However, it is common knowledge that many people develop light sensitivity as they age.

From

[link to www.rnib.org.uk]

"It is important to remember that there is a scale of light sensitivity. Some people are just more sensitive to light than others. Also as we grow older we can also become more sensitive to light, this is because the eye changes even though there is no disease."

"Even though there may be no physical cause for the light sensitivity it can sometimes be very intense. The advice about sunglasses and hats can often help someone with light sensitivity."

Therefore, what you may remember as a yellow sun percieved as a child, may now look glaringly (even painfully) white because of increased light sensitivity as we age.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145

I really like how you only quoted parts of this source that supported your side, you didn't meantion the relation to other medical conditions that contribute to light sensitivity that can contribute to it like Migranes etc. This is a perfect example of how anyone can take bits of information from either side of a story to enforce their point. You will not change my mind, I won't change yours. If anyone wants to see the whole issue read the WHOLE page this person linked. Your tying in information about SOME people that have a condition that effects how they see colors too brightly which has nothing to do with healthy eyes noticing a color change. It does nothing to support the premise that someone remembers a color differently then it is now.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229098
United States
04/27/2007 05:03 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
And I am not unreasonable. It could also be entirely possible that the reason I see the sun whiter now then I did in childhood is because of some type of yet undetectable damage to the human eye that we do not diagnose yet. I KNOW how complex the eye is and how it can trick us. But for now I have to wonder why. As I said before I don't pretend to say that it is the sun thats changed or the atmosphere. But I also now that I am not "light sensitive" according to the definitions in the page you linked and from my own eye tests etc. So I am left wondering for now is all. I haven't used sun glasses much at all in my life cause light does not bother me, I wonder sometimes if that also could have caused damage that is still not detected the way we do eye exams and produces this result also. But according to current eye medical guidelines I have very healthy eyes and I see it different....*shrug*
Anonymous Coward
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Croatia
04/27/2007 05:23 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
However, it's temperature is determined solely by the type of nuclear reactions going on and large temperature changes just don't happen out of nowhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145


That's a blatant hypothesis and you can't quote it as if it were a hard fact. Plasma Cosmology and EU challenge nuclear furnace model with many observable phenomena easily explained by PC and EU, but unexplained by mainstream.

As for sudden changes "out of nowhere", just a couple of examples:

Neither are supernovae:

[link to www.thunderbolts.info]

[link to www.thunderbolts.info]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
United States
04/27/2007 05:58 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
However, it's temperature is determined solely by the type of nuclear reactions going on and large temperature changes just don't happen out of nowhere.

That's a blatant hypothesis and you can't quote it as if it were a hard fact. Plasma Cosmology and EU challenge nuclear furnace model with many observable phenomena easily explained by PC and EU, but unexplained by mainstream.

As for sudden changes "out of nowhere", just a couple of examples:

Neither are supernovae:

[link to www.thunderbolts.info]

[link to www.thunderbolts.info]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 228838


Of course supervovae are drastic changes in brightness, accoumpanied by a total change in the nuclear reactions in the star. Do you think we've had a supernova? Not hardly. But neither have we had any detectable changes that would change the color of our star, other than the 0.05% increase in luminance per decade that has been well documented.

Again, I challenge anyone to find any documentation of a wholesale visible change in the color temperature of the sun over the past 50 years. If the phenomenon were real, it would be documented to the nth degree, especially with the interest in solar energy and making solar cells more efficient as well as global warming.

You can say that you can remember it being a different color all you want, but if you don't have any verifiable documentation, you have nothing. As for me, I DON'T remember it being different...and I'm 48.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229258
Croatia
04/28/2007 05:56 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
Of course supervovae are drastic changes in brightness, accoumpanied by a total change in the nuclear reactions in the star.(...)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145


You didn't read the articles linked, did you? They show situations where stars that did NOT undergo a supernova event, suddenly change brightness, due to electrical tensions and discharges.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229435
Switzerland
04/28/2007 05:59 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
The *** THREE stages of Climate Change *** - revealed worldwide first by Matt Marriott
Stage 1 until early 2004. Cause: Human Destruction of Balance of Creation (CO2, ozone hole, etc)

global temperatures: 0.6° C, from 1990 to 2004.
changes in local climates due to changes in precipitation patterns.


Stage 2. 2004-late 2006: changes on the sun - sunspots, etc.
global temperatures: increase of 0.5°C. However we can not tell the temperature change due to changes in the sun alone, because of changes related to human causes (global dimming, ozone hole, etc).


Stage 3, late 2006 until now-. Sun orbit changed, CLOSING in on Earth.

global temperatures: increase of at least 1°C.
Humans begin to burn on Earth before the FINAL DESCENT into the Lake of Fire.
In
The *** THREE stages of Climate Change *** - revealed worldwide first by Matt Marriott
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229258
Croatia
04/28/2007 06:00 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
Matt, go fuck yourself and stop ruining threads with your pointless advertisements.
Arg
User ID: 179883
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04/28/2007 08:06 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
So much trouble and so little answers to something that right there in front of everyone. People my age remember a nice golden yellow sun. so here is a silly idea and question.

Pictures of then and now. there should be a way to see the difference in the sun's bightness in the pictures.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 159906
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04/28/2007 08:10 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
Yes, the sun has gone from golden yellow to white. Any person with eyes, older than 25, and cares to look up can determine this. (Older than 25, because they will remember back when the sun was golden-yellow). Watch the sunbeams come into a house that is a little dusty. Notice how they are white now, instead of golden like they used to be.

Notice how much quicker you get hot when in the sun.

Notice how much quicker you sunburn than you used to.


Yep, I agree.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 228248



No doubt about it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 151243
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04/28/2007 09:57 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
DEFINE 'TOO BRIGHT'.

OFTEN SUNGLASS WEARERS COMPLAIN OF THE SAME BECAUSE THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM VITAMIN A DEFFICIENCY. EAT CARROTS, DOC.
Sir_Chancealot

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04/28/2007 10:44 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
Oh, the old our eyes are getting older and we can't see so good anymore, feeble excuse.

Try a little harder shill. You're losing your debunker audience.

The AC photographer sure stuck a fork in you this time.


I don't understand the process by which you cherry pick your data, 78/68. Why are changes in eyes more difficult to believe than changes in the Sun? We KNOW eyes are changing. Are you saying you believe there is no difference in vision or light sensitivity over the lifetime of a person or his eyes? Are you SURE you want to make that claim?

But, I'll ask the A/C, since I know you won't answer. Please provide data showing light meter settings in the past, say the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on, and how they have changed since the millennium. Or, better still, find photographic reference about light meters from books of those eras...or have they all secretly altered to hide the 'Sun is whiter and brighter?' Or show how refracted light has changed. If the base color of the Sun has changed, the spectrum MUST have changed as well -- you can't have such a CAUSE not have that EFFECT.

I know 78/68 HATES the mention of any kind of MEASUREMENT. After all, these claims, much as the Sun and Moon being out of place, should be accepted on their merits. Asking for measurements, or asking why certain effects continue to refuse to manifest, or why these amazing changes continue to lack the effects we expect? Why,that's just plain wrong of me. What could I be thinking?!?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444

I believe someone posted MEASUREMENTS a while back, either in this thread or in another one like it. You didn't accept that data either.
Menow
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04/28/2007 10:48 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
I'm a vision specialist. Specifically I work with Low vision clients and helping them learn what contrasts work best for different visual impairments. In order to do this I have to do the Ishihara Color Test quite regularly. I have no problems discerning color's. I DO remember a much more yellow sun from my youth and its change over the years. I could give a rats ass less on how much "proof" you can come up with to tell me people making these observations are all wrong.


Well, then, as a professional in the field, you should have access to data showing that your contention is correct, right? Can you show any references that document a color change in the sun?


My reference to my profession was about being able to correctly identify color's. There would not be any documentation in the field of low vision relating to eye conditions that deal with the sun's color over time (other then how different lighting conditions effect contrasts and visibility which covers indoor lighting as well, and is more of a wide spectrum analayzes of all lighting conditions with different visual impairments). I am saying that I REMEMBER IT, not that my field documents it. I'd happily get a nuero-psyche test for cognitive and recall impairments but I guarantee I will pass with flying colors... I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you, my only reason for posting was to let the few others that KNOW they have seen a change in the color that others think so too. And I don't pretend to understand if its changes in the atmosphere or the sun itself, it doesn't matter when the end result is the color looks different now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 229098



"I have no desire to produce docuemntation to prove anything to you..."


If I only had a dollar for every time I have seen that lame dodge used.
Menow
User ID: 159829
United States
04/28/2007 10:57 AM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
Of course supervovae are drastic changes in brightness, accoumpanied by a total change in the nuclear reactions in the star.(...)


You didn't read the articles linked, did you? They show situations where stars that did NOT undergo a supernova event, suddenly change brightness, due to electrical tensions and discharges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 229258


You contend that this has occurred with our Sun?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 229258
Croatia
04/28/2007 12:16 PM
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Re: The Sun is too BRIGHT these days
You contend that this has occurred with our Sun?
 Quoting: Menow 159829


No, at least not at that scale. But the question was whether sudden changes are impossible, as the "nuclear furnace" model would like to tell you.

One of the EU/PC model assumptions are areas in the galaxy of different electrical charge. The sun can simply be entering an area with more charge available and therefore become more active/hotter. This has been seen on other stars, and sometimes it is very violent, like the examples linked above.

At any rate, changes that are not possible with nuclear furnace model are possible with EU/PC models, and brightening of sun is then easily explained, on such a short time scale.

Conspiracies notwithstanding, it is a fact that EU/PC proponents are not allowed time on measuring devices that belong to mainstream scientists, and therefore countless quality experiments and measurements cannot be done to confirm, or reject, what the models suggest. Still, everything coming from mainstream flanked with "Scientists are baffled at..." titles has been explained by EU/PC models decades ago, from all the bits of data that eventually do leak to public.





GLP