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Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:48 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
The Senate today voted 52-47 to disapprove the FCC’s recent order replacing 2015’s net neutrality rules, a pleasant surprise for internet advocates and consumers throughout the country. Although the disapproval will almost certainly not lead to the new rules being undone, it is a powerful statement of solidarity with a constituency activated against this deeply unpopular order.

[link to techcrunch.com (secure)]
 Quoting: 5.0%


I guess if you trust Obama

Remember this everything Obama passed was bad, everything Obama did was against Americans

So, why would we believe that this thing that Obama started would be a good thing?

The internet was fine before 20015, so why did Obama feel the need to pass net neutrality?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76042026


The internet is the last frontier for free thinkers and free speech. Obama wanted to control it and tax it.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:48 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


I pay for the faster internet and I still don't use streaming services like netflix.

Only playing games, watching short videos, browsing.

I use very small amounts of bandwidth, but still pay extra for the faster speeds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


According to liberals who want everything "equal" and "fair", you should have to pay as much as Netflix so Netflix doesn't have pay extra.
 Quoting: thinking...


Aren't we there already? You pay your ISP for the access to the service, with their ability to set data caps and speed limits, and you pay the content provider for their content? Why would anyone need to pay more? If your data plan runs out, you can't consume.... why should the content provider have to pay to get their data to you? Isn't free market you working that out with your ISP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Exactly if we are already there why do we need further laws and rules and government control applied?



Don't you see the problem with net neutrality logic yet??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Don't you see the fault in your logic? Your ISP wants more profit... We have had to codify the basic premise of paying for access into law because they wanted to double dip and charge the content providers. Bandwidth costs them nothing. But they want to squeeze out every single cent of shareholder value.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


No.


I was responding to you calling my analogy uneducated.

You are also wrong about government oversight, net "neutrality" does add it, by the truckloads.


How do you think the government is supposed to enforce the neutrality and keep little old you safe from the evil corporations who want to limit your internet?

They will have to oversee these corporations of course, the same way they oversee television and radio corporations.

With an iron fist.




Face it bub, this so called net neutrality is bad business.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


How does it add oversight? Any content provider that gets a shake down from a ISP will complain.... And they already oversee the ISP's. They are monopolies and the infrastructure that carries the content (bandwidth) is paid for with taxpayer dollars....

You're argument boils down to the town having to work the communal farm and then pay the local grocer who runs the farm to get the produce.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Monopolies implies one company that controls all the avenues of a particular good or service.

Considering there are hundreds of internet service providers out there, where's this monopoly?


Government oversight comes in the form of regulation as I have explained a number of times.


If you don't get it I can't help you.


Furthermore if no government oversight is needed why is net neutrality needed?


Do you even understand what it does?

Because it puts the control of the internet directly in the hands of the government.

If you can't understand this one simple thing you won't understand why net neutrality is bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


No ISP monopolies in the US? Do some research... There are a lot but most areas are serviced by one.

And Net Neutrality is not a government oversight measure, it's a limitation on companies to expand their revenue streams. It means that they get their profit from their users not the content providers. It does not increase government control over the internet it just requires ISP's to adhere to the basic rule that they provide unhindered access to all things online.

I understand that you want to think that any rule increases government power. Net Neutrality did something else. It limited the markets ability to monetize and discriminate your ability to access content online. Something that was generally accepted in the early days of the internet until a corporation saw a means to defy and milk it.

Net Neutrality is not a new idea, it's always been here, long before 2015. Hence why the internet worked good. Then ISP's got greedy and tried for new revenue streams. Hence it was deemed necessary to codify it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


You don't understand how internet service providers work.

First off there's hundreds of wireless providers.

Secondly there are only 2-3 hard wired connections to choose from, the reason for that is because companies aren't allowed to come in and run new utility hard lines.


Why aren't they allowed to do that though?

Oh that's right more government regulation that says they can't.


That's right dummie, the reason why you can only get 1 cable internet service provider per area is because the government regulated how many hard wired utility lines could be installed per area.



More government control stifling innovation and progress.



And you support more of the control.

Like the good puppet you are.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:49 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


According to liberals who want everything "equal" and "fair", you should have to pay as much as Netflix so Netflix doesn't have pay extra.
 Quoting: thinking...


Aren't we there already? You pay your ISP for the access to the service, with their ability to set data caps and speed limits, and you pay the content provider for their content? Why would anyone need to pay more? If your data plan runs out, you can't consume.... why should the content provider have to pay to get their data to you? Isn't free market you working that out with your ISP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Exactly if we are already there why do we need further laws and rules and government control applied?



Don't you see the problem with net neutrality logic yet??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Don't you see the fault in your logic? Your ISP wants more profit... We have had to codify the basic premise of paying for access into law because they wanted to double dip and charge the content providers. Bandwidth costs them nothing. But they want to squeeze out every single cent of shareholder value.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Why have costs risen since net neutrality came about then?

I have never had a problem with the internet or any provider and it's always been reasonably priced.



The things the government wants you to fear were never happening from the ISPs.


Boogey men.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:50 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
So Amazon’s latest in a long line of government-monopoly contracts – is just fine. And never, ever called a monopoly.

Meanwhile, the Media-Left keep trying to pawn off on us fake, phony, faux monopolies – with their just-as-totally-dishonest reporting about cable and the ISPs.

Because the Media-Left loathe cable and the ISPs.

Even though cable and the ISPs…give the Left a ton of money.

(Something cable and the ISPs should STRONGLY reconsider. Stop feeding the hands that bite you.)

Were it not for double standards – the Media-Left would have no standards at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69617649


They hate it because unlike radio, televsion and movies, they can't control everything about it.


Hence, "net neutrality" so they could control everything.


They just need an army of liberal dummies to support it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


hesright
Anonymous Cowherder

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05/16/2018 06:51 PM

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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
i'll just leave this here, in case it hasn't been posted yet.



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Reapportionment Act of 1929!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

Thread: The Bill of Rights does NOT include age requirements!

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

:cow: - Moo!
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:54 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


How does it add oversight? Any content provider that gets a shake down from a ISP will complain.... And they already oversee the ISP's. They are monopolies and the infrastructure that carries the content (bandwidth) is paid for with taxpayer dollars....

You're argument boils down to the town having to work the communal farm and then pay the local grocer who runs the farm to get the produce.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Monopolies implies one company that controls all the avenues of a particular good or service.

Considering there are hundreds of internet service providers out there, where's this monopoly?


Government oversight comes in the form of regulation as I have explained a number of times.


If you don't get it I can't help you.


Furthermore if no government oversight is needed why is net neutrality needed?


Do you even understand what it does?

Because it puts the control of the internet directly in the hands of the government.

If you can't understand this one simple thing you won't understand why net neutrality is bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


No ISP monopolies in the US? Do some research... There are a lot but most areas are serviced by one.

And Net Neutrality is not a government oversight measure, it's a limitation on companies to expand their revenue streams. It means that they get their profit from their users not the content providers. It does not increase government control over the internet it just requires ISP's to adhere to the basic rule that they provide unhindered access to all things online.

I understand that you want to think that any rule increases government power. Net Neutrality did something else. It limited the markets ability to monetize and discriminate your ability to access content online. Something that was generally accepted in the early days of the internet until a corporation saw a means to defy and milk it.

Net Neutrality is not a new idea, it's always been here, long before 2015. Hence why the internet worked good. Then ISP's got greedy and tried for new revenue streams. Hence it was deemed necessary to codify it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


You don't understand how internet service providers work.

First off there's hundreds of wireless providers.

Secondly there are only 2-3 hard wired connections to choose from, the reason for that is because companies aren't allowed to come in and run new utility hard lines.


Why aren't they allowed to do that though?

Oh that's right more government regulation that says they can't.


That's right dummie, the reason why you can only get 1 cable internet service provider per area is because the government regulated how many hard wired utility lines could be installed per area.



More government control stifling innovation and progress.



And you support more of the control.

Like the good puppet you are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


You have your points reversed... The government payed for the infrastructure and the ISP holds a stranglehold over it to keep competition out (Lobbying plays a part). I'll grant you the government is complicit, but it is the ISP's that are creating the mess.

Giving them oversight over the content you can consume isn't smart.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 59543796
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05/16/2018 06:54 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


No.


I was responding to you calling my analogy uneducated.

You are also wrong about government oversight, net "neutrality" does add it, by the truckloads.


How do you think the government is supposed to enforce the neutrality and keep little old you safe from the evil corporations who want to limit your internet?

They will have to oversee these corporations of course, the same way they oversee television and radio corporations.

With an iron fist.




Face it bub, this so called net neutrality is bad business.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


How does it add oversight? Any content provider that gets a shake down from a ISP will complain.... And they already oversee the ISP's. They are monopolies and the infrastructure that carries the content (bandwidth) is paid for with taxpayer dollars....

You're argument boils down to the town having to work the communal farm and then pay the local grocer who runs the farm to get the produce.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Monopolies implies one company that controls all the avenues of a particular good or service.

Considering there are hundreds of internet service providers out there, where's this monopoly?


Government oversight comes in the form of regulation as I have explained a number of times.


If you don't get it I can't help you.


Furthermore if no government oversight is needed why is net neutrality needed?


Do you even understand what it does?

Because it puts the control of the internet directly in the hands of the government.

If you can't understand this one simple thing you won't understand why net neutrality is bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


No ISP monopolies in the US? Do some research... There are a lot but most areas are serviced by one.

And Net Neutrality is not a government oversight measure, it's a limitation on companies to expand their revenue streams. It means that they get their profit from their users not the content providers. It does not increase government control over the internet it just requires ISP's to adhere to the basic rule that they provide unhindered access to all things online.

I understand that you want to think that any rule increases government power. Net Neutrality did something else. It limited the markets ability to monetize and discriminate your ability to access content online. Something that was generally accepted in the early days of the internet until a corporation saw a means to defy and milk it.

Net Neutrality is not a new idea, it's always been here, long before 2015. Hence why the internet worked good. Then ISP's got greedy and tried for new revenue streams. Hence it was deemed necessary to codify it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Exactly

But these pigheaded morans are determined to screw themselves and ruin a good thing.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:54 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
this is bad as is not net neutrality it is some rubbish obama passed in 2015 and called it net neutrality to fool people which benefits big tech companies

what the FCC did was remove obama rubbish called net neutrality and tried to put everything back to how it was pre 2015
 Quoting: Spoon Boy


Got a corporate dis-info shill here, hissssssssssss
 Quoting: atd 76043572


got a Communist government cock sucker here, slurp slurp slurp
Wondering Mind

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05/16/2018 06:57 PM

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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
Nice! I don't know why so many on here were against this before.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76585155


I for one can say for my self I did not know or understand what it was, or what it was doing to our internet.
I was against monopolizing the net, turning it into a weapon and a tool against people, targeting people for political reasons.
I did sign the petition that was offered back no long back about it, based on the fact many other here said it was unwanted, I believed them.
My son signed it as well and those on his friends list, none of them were for it.
The most precious things are the simple things in life, always present in the simplest of minds.
Terrebonne

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05/16/2018 06:57 PM

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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
'Net Neutrality' Does not allow the the government the power to regulate the content on the internet. It just limits your ISP's ability to do so! And you pay your ISP for a speed and a dataplan.....

Net Neutrality actually is a regulation of the ability of ISP's to limit your access to content within the 'Service contract' you have with them. It stipulates that the ISP is required to provide the terms of their contract to all content providers online equally.

'Net Neutrality' Does not add government oversight over the internet. It's a means to not allow ISPs to discriminate the content you have access to within your service contract with them. It stipulates that your ISP cannot choose to limit your access to a service (or forum) because they do not like the content on it, or it takes more bandwidth then others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Well written post. I disagree with most of it, Net Neutrality will bring in more government controls. Here's an article from last May 2017 that might help.

Net Neutrality Is about Government Control of the Internet

[link to fee.org (secure)]


.
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We put a lot of energy into identifying the best system for getting things done, and constantly define and re-define the priorities.

We know things intuitively, without being able to pinpoint why, and without detailed knowledge of the subject at hand. We are usually right, and we usually know it.

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Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:57 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


Monopolies implies one company that controls all the avenues of a particular good or service.

Considering there are hundreds of internet service providers out there, where's this monopoly?


Government oversight comes in the form of regulation as I have explained a number of times.


If you don't get it I can't help you.


Furthermore if no government oversight is needed why is net neutrality needed?


Do you even understand what it does?

Because it puts the control of the internet directly in the hands of the government.

If you can't understand this one simple thing you won't understand why net neutrality is bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


No ISP monopolies in the US? Do some research... There are a lot but most areas are serviced by one.

And Net Neutrality is not a government oversight measure, it's a limitation on companies to expand their revenue streams. It means that they get their profit from their users not the content providers. It does not increase government control over the internet it just requires ISP's to adhere to the basic rule that they provide unhindered access to all things online.

I understand that you want to think that any rule increases government power. Net Neutrality did something else. It limited the markets ability to monetize and discriminate your ability to access content online. Something that was generally accepted in the early days of the internet until a corporation saw a means to defy and milk it.

Net Neutrality is not a new idea, it's always been here, long before 2015. Hence why the internet worked good. Then ISP's got greedy and tried for new revenue streams. Hence it was deemed necessary to codify it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


You don't understand how internet service providers work.

First off there's hundreds of wireless providers.

Secondly there are only 2-3 hard wired connections to choose from, the reason for that is because companies aren't allowed to come in and run new utility hard lines.


Why aren't they allowed to do that though?

Oh that's right more government regulation that says they can't.


That's right dummie, the reason why you can only get 1 cable internet service provider per area is because the government regulated how many hard wired utility lines could be installed per area.



More government control stifling innovation and progress.



And you support more of the control.

Like the good puppet you are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


You have your points reversed... The government payed for the infrastructure and the ISP holds a stranglehold over it to keep competition out (Lobbying plays a part). I'll grant you the government is complicit, but it is the ISP's that are creating the mess.

Giving them oversight over the content you can consume isn't smart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry can't help you.


The intense amount of brainwashing they have over you can't be easily broken.


You are so convinced that evil corporation are out to get you, despite they never have done anything wrong to you, but you feel the government is your savior.


I can't help you break that programming, that's something you will have to figure out yourself.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:58 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
i'll just leave this here, in case it hasn't been posted yet.



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Cowherder


Exactly this ^^^^^^^^^^^
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:59 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
Here is the rub!

The regulations classify broadband access as a telecommunications service, which subjects it to “common carrier” provisions that bar Internet service providers from discriminating against how broadband is used. The regulations were passed in February 2015 by the FCC, then led by chairman Tom Wheeler. Wheeler’s successor Ajit Pai, a vocal critic of that move even while serving under Wheeler, has vowed to revisit the issue.

Obama wanted government reach into the internet the same as phone lines and power lines!
 Quoting: PatrikC325


Which is a bad move.

The reason we are still sitting on technology that hasn't had much traction for TV, phones lines, and power is that the tech is older than your great grandmother and protected by localized monopolies.

The internet was burning through advancements year after year because of the free market principles of it, there was always space in the market to make it better if any one provider was behaving poorly.

With net neutrality in place, expect entrenchment from big carriers, deinvestment from small companies trying to break into the market, and an overall slowdown until it turns into a pitiful pile of shit that is slow and heavily regulated out the ass.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 06:59 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


Aren't we there already? You pay your ISP for the access to the service, with their ability to set data caps and speed limits, and you pay the content provider for their content? Why would anyone need to pay more? If your data plan runs out, you can't consume.... why should the content provider have to pay to get their data to you? Isn't free market you working that out with your ISP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Exactly if we are already there why do we need further laws and rules and government control applied?



Don't you see the problem with net neutrality logic yet??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Don't you see the fault in your logic? Your ISP wants more profit... We have had to codify the basic premise of paying for access into law because they wanted to double dip and charge the content providers. Bandwidth costs them nothing. But they want to squeeze out every single cent of shareholder value.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Why have costs risen since net neutrality came about then?

I have never had a problem with the internet or any provider and it's always been reasonably priced.



The things the government wants you to fear were never happening from the ISPs.


Boogey men.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Who sets the prices? The ISP's... How many do you have to choose from? Have they all increased in prices?

Net Neutrality stopped a growing trend of ISP's charging both ends of the connection. The government did nothing more then tell them they could not do that. If prices increased, it most likely means your ISP wants more money.... Has you internet speed increased? Have they become more reliable? If they became more expensive why not move to a new provider that offers what you want? Isn't that what a free market is about... Getting what you want at the lowest price you are willing to pay?
Seanchaidh

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05/16/2018 07:00 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
Net neutrality should stay repealed and government should get out of the internet. No government has the right to tell internet providers how they will provide services.
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Regenerated

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05/16/2018 07:00 PM

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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
No this isn't good. The "Net Neutrality" that the FCC removed wasn't net neutrality at all. It was Obama policy named "Net Neutrality". We just got a bit of Obama's legacy back :(
SNOWIE

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05/16/2018 07:01 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
Net neutrality is a terrible thing. Lets hope they can kill it once and for all.

Some people fall for the democrats Orwellian double speak like mindless robots.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:01 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
'Net Neutrality' Does not allow the the government the power to regulate the content on the internet. It just limits your ISP's ability to do so! And you pay your ISP for a speed and a dataplan.....

Net Neutrality actually is a regulation of the ability of ISP's to limit your access to content within the 'Service contract' you have with them. It stipulates that the ISP is required to provide the terms of their contract to all content providers online equally.

'Net Neutrality' Does not add government oversight over the internet. It's a means to not allow ISPs to discriminate the content you have access to within your service contract with them. It stipulates that your ISP cannot choose to limit your access to a service (or forum) because they do not like the content on it, or it takes more bandwidth then others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Well written post. I disagree with most of it, Net Neutrality will bring in more government controls. Here's an article from last May 2017 that might help.

Net Neutrality Is about Government Control of the Internet

[link to fee.org (secure)]


.
 Quoting: Terrebonne


These people are so brainwashed they can't see the failed logic.


Government creates a problem and a solution and convinces people that the only way to fix a non existent problem is with more government regulation.


Seriously I don't understand how people don't see the fail logic.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:04 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


Exactly if we are already there why do we need further laws and rules and government control applied?



Don't you see the problem with net neutrality logic yet??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Don't you see the fault in your logic? Your ISP wants more profit... We have had to codify the basic premise of paying for access into law because they wanted to double dip and charge the content providers. Bandwidth costs them nothing. But they want to squeeze out every single cent of shareholder value.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Why have costs risen since net neutrality came about then?

I have never had a problem with the internet or any provider and it's always been reasonably priced.



The things the government wants you to fear were never happening from the ISPs.


Boogey men.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Who sets the prices? The ISP's... How many do you have to choose from? Have they all increased in prices?

Net Neutrality stopped a growing trend of ISP's charging both ends of the connection. The government did nothing more then tell them they could not do that. If prices increased, it most likely means your ISP wants more money.... Has you internet speed increased? Have they become more reliable? If they became more expensive why not move to a new provider that offers what you want? Isn't that what a free market is about... Getting what you want at the lowest price you are willing to pay?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Show your proof.



I want to see where your personal internet bill was being raised unexplainably, and how net neutrality lowered your bill.





And you are wrong about government oversight.

Simply "telling" the corporations not to do something doesn't require the entire support of the government and laws to be enacted.



There was lots of oversight and lots of paperwork, if you don't understand bureaucracy, then you won't understand why that's bad.


Before net neutrality internet prices were pretty steady and fair, during and after it, internet prices raising.

It doesn't take an einstein to figure out what happened.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:05 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
Net Neutrality came about when people wanted to use face time apps and other high intensity bandwidth uses over wireless internet.

Imagine if netflix were a trucking company, and they wanted the exclusive use of the highway system to deliver their goods.


That's what's happening here, higher bandwidth services such as streaming, chatting in real time, etc demanded higher network services.

They should be charged more.


People don't realize what's involved in sharing their stupid conversations over the internet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Your points don't actually make sense. Your analogy with a trucking company is quite uneducated to be honest.

Within that example netflix with be using the roads paid for by taxes (ISP subscription charges for the Internet and Taxes for actual roads) but they would then be required to pay a surcharge to use the road alongside of you to deliver the packages you want to you.

Big difference is that the roads cost a lot of money, extra bandwidth is pretty cheap and generally doesn't require much extra hardware where we are now. And keep in mind that the actual bandwidth (The actual roads of the internet) Have long been subsidized by the government and your tax payer money.

The ISPs are just milking every dollar out of their monopolies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry I felt I needed to use a very small brained analogy to break it down for you.

Anyone who supports net "neutrality" ( a misleading name by the way ) supports the full government control of the internet.

Bottom line.

That is what will lead to internet being like television.

It's been proven time and time again government control makes things worse, not better.


Net neutrality gives the government the power to regulate and with it, it's only a matter of time before the internet in fact becomes not free, and websites like this will disappear.



As far as bandwidth you aren't going to argue that more demand on the network puts more stress and requires more power, more maintenance, etc.

You simply can't deny that.

So companies as well as people who want "fair internet" don't realize the costs involved in what they want.

Lets be honest, mostly folks who support net neutrality are concerned with their download speeds being slowed, because they are downloading tons of media, illegally.


The only other people supporting this lunacy would be brainwashed liberals.


Which one are you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Thanks for jumping right into demeaning my intelligence and showing a clear lack of your own cognitive abilities to boot!

'Net Neutrality' Does not allow the the government the power to regulate the content on the internet. It just limits your ISP's ability to do so! And you pay your ISP for a speed and a dataplan.....

Net Neutrality actually is a regulation of the ability of ISP's to limit your access to content within the 'Service contract' you have with them. It stipulates that the ISP is required to provide the terms of their contract to all content providers online equally.

'Net Neutrality' Does not add government oversight over the internet. It's a means to not allow ISPs to discriminate the content you have access to within your service contract with them. It stipulates that your ISP cannot choose to limit your access to a service (or forum) because they do not like the content on it, or it takes more bandwidth then others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072



Well, yes it does add oversight. Oversight that I do no need. If my provider jacks my rates or limits my access then me and my wallet walks. My choice. Enough people do that and said supplier goes out of business. You socialist dopes hate capitalism don't you?
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:05 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
It's all rather confusing, but as I understand this article ( [link to www.wired.com (secure)] it comes down to if you trust the FCC and whoever runs it.

It seems the FCC was trying several years ago to pass rules to keep the internet neutral, whereby internet service providers couldn't play favorites with content or equipment. This was under Bush and Obama. But the FCC's rules kept being challenged in court by ISPs, and one of the arguments against the FCC was that ISPs weren't classified in the same way as say telephone companies, so the FCC was stepping out of their bounds making such rules.

Then in 2014, it appears that the FCC tried to pass something that would allow for internet "fast lanes" (according to a different article, the FCC felt they had to broaden what was considered neutral, since they kept being challenged in court by ISPs). So then in 2015, the FCC changed strategy and attempted to have ISPs reclassified to be in a similar category as telephone providers, which would then allow the FCC better legal grounds for whatever rules they wanted passed. This was allowed by the courts to stand.

Then in 2017, another vote threw out the 2015 rules. So ISP's wouldn't be like telephone companies, thus undermining the FCC's standing to impose rules, and thus leaving only the FTC to oversee ISPs. But the FTC is more limited than the FCC and can't pass rules, it can only step in if an ISP does something that's actually illegal.

So today's vote seems to overturn the 2017 vote (although it doesn't undo the 2017 rules? confusing), so I guess ISPs go back to being categorized like telephone companies, and the FCC is back to more oversight of ISPs. Which one would hope would mean that the FCC would go back to establishing net neutrality. Although they could try to pass rules again like what they tried in 2014 that would've allowed fast lanes. So perhaps it's all a matter of who is in charge of the FCC and what sort of rules the agency will try to pass?

TLDR; -- Basically, it seems you can either have the FCC trying to pass what rules they want, or you can have the FTC in charge who can't pass any rules and who can only stop outright illegal activities. Depends which scenario you consider potentially worse.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:06 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
Think of it this way, the same man that spied on journalists for criticizing him and investigating his past is also the one promoting "net neutrality" to maintain a "free and open" internet.

The internet was doing just fine pre the idea of net neutrality, media, big tech firms, and government created the specter of bad actors in the space and the supporters ate it up because they think it's good for them.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:06 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


No ISP monopolies in the US? Do some research... There are a lot but most areas are serviced by one.

And Net Neutrality is not a government oversight measure, it's a limitation on companies to expand their revenue streams. It means that they get their profit from their users not the content providers. It does not increase government control over the internet it just requires ISP's to adhere to the basic rule that they provide unhindered access to all things online.

I understand that you want to think that any rule increases government power. Net Neutrality did something else. It limited the markets ability to monetize and discriminate your ability to access content online. Something that was generally accepted in the early days of the internet until a corporation saw a means to defy and milk it.

Net Neutrality is not a new idea, it's always been here, long before 2015. Hence why the internet worked good. Then ISP's got greedy and tried for new revenue streams. Hence it was deemed necessary to codify it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


You don't understand how internet service providers work.

First off there's hundreds of wireless providers.

Secondly there are only 2-3 hard wired connections to choose from, the reason for that is because companies aren't allowed to come in and run new utility hard lines.


Why aren't they allowed to do that though?

Oh that's right more government regulation that says they can't.


That's right dummie, the reason why you can only get 1 cable internet service provider per area is because the government regulated how many hard wired utility lines could be installed per area.



More government control stifling innovation and progress.



And you support more of the control.

Like the good puppet you are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


You have your points reversed... The government payed for the infrastructure and the ISP holds a stranglehold over it to keep competition out (Lobbying plays a part). I'll grant you the government is complicit, but it is the ISP's that are creating the mess.

Giving them oversight over the content you can consume isn't smart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry can't help you.


The intense amount of brainwashing they have over you can't be easily broken.


You are so convinced that evil corporation are out to get you, despite they never have done anything wrong to you, but you feel the government is your savior.


I can't help you break that programming, that's something you will have to figure out yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Likewise I am sorry for you, that think the government is set out to harm you in every way and that regulations that limit the free market are bad.

In theory I agree that limiting a free market is bad, but when it comes to infrastructure like the internet there is no free market and monopolies quickly form because initial cost of deployment is too high. ISP's don't give a shit about you, they know you need them, they will f' you whenever possible. And your bending over and begging as the government is trying to tell them not to.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:07 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


You don't understand how internet service providers work.

First off there's hundreds of wireless providers.

Secondly there are only 2-3 hard wired connections to choose from, the reason for that is because companies aren't allowed to come in and run new utility hard lines.


Why aren't they allowed to do that though?

Oh that's right more government regulation that says they can't.


That's right dummie, the reason why you can only get 1 cable internet service provider per area is because the government regulated how many hard wired utility lines could be installed per area.



More government control stifling innovation and progress.



And you support more of the control.

Like the good puppet you are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


You have your points reversed... The government payed for the infrastructure and the ISP holds a stranglehold over it to keep competition out (Lobbying plays a part). I'll grant you the government is complicit, but it is the ISP's that are creating the mess.

Giving them oversight over the content you can consume isn't smart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry can't help you.


The intense amount of brainwashing they have over you can't be easily broken.


You are so convinced that evil corporation are out to get you, despite they never have done anything wrong to you, but you feel the government is your savior.


I can't help you break that programming, that's something you will have to figure out yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Likewise I am sorry for you, that think the government is set out to harm you in every way and that regulations that limit the free market are bad.

In theory I agree that limiting a free market is bad, but when it comes to infrastructure like the internet there is no free market and monopolies quickly form because initial cost of deployment is too high. ISP's don't give a shit about you, they know you need them, they will f' you whenever possible. And your bending over and begging as the government is trying to tell them not to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Show your proof where corporations were raising internet rates unexplainably, and net neutrality helped to lower those rates.


Go on I'll be waiting here.
Anonymous Cowherder

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05/16/2018 07:10 PM

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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
let's compare...

number of men needed to change an out of control ISP? one, to make two phone calls.

number of men needed to change an out of control government? history shows that it takes at least 56 men to pledge their "lives, [their] fortunes, and [their] sacred honor" and 3-5% of the remaining population to believe in the cause and fight for it.

which seems easier?
Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Reapportionment Act of 1929!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

Thread: The Bill of Rights does NOT include age requirements!

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

:cow: - Moo!
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:11 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


Your points don't actually make sense. Your analogy with a trucking company is quite uneducated to be honest.

Within that example netflix with be using the roads paid for by taxes (ISP subscription charges for the Internet and Taxes for actual roads) but they would then be required to pay a surcharge to use the road alongside of you to deliver the packages you want to you.

Big difference is that the roads cost a lot of money, extra bandwidth is pretty cheap and generally doesn't require much extra hardware where we are now. And keep in mind that the actual bandwidth (The actual roads of the internet) Have long been subsidized by the government and your tax payer money.

The ISPs are just milking every dollar out of their monopolies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry I felt I needed to use a very small brained analogy to break it down for you.

Anyone who supports net "neutrality" ( a misleading name by the way ) supports the full government control of the internet.

Bottom line.

That is what will lead to internet being like television.

It's been proven time and time again government control makes things worse, not better.


Net neutrality gives the government the power to regulate and with it, it's only a matter of time before the internet in fact becomes not free, and websites like this will disappear.



As far as bandwidth you aren't going to argue that more demand on the network puts more stress and requires more power, more maintenance, etc.

You simply can't deny that.

So companies as well as people who want "fair internet" don't realize the costs involved in what they want.

Lets be honest, mostly folks who support net neutrality are concerned with their download speeds being slowed, because they are downloading tons of media, illegally.


The only other people supporting this lunacy would be brainwashed liberals.


Which one are you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Thanks for jumping right into demeaning my intelligence and showing a clear lack of your own cognitive abilities to boot!

'Net Neutrality' Does not allow the the government the power to regulate the content on the internet. It just limits your ISP's ability to do so! And you pay your ISP for a speed and a dataplan.....

Net Neutrality actually is a regulation of the ability of ISP's to limit your access to content within the 'Service contract' you have with them. It stipulates that the ISP is required to provide the terms of their contract to all content providers online equally.

'Net Neutrality' Does not add government oversight over the internet. It's a means to not allow ISPs to discriminate the content you have access to within your service contract with them. It stipulates that your ISP cannot choose to limit your access to a service (or forum) because they do not like the content on it, or it takes more bandwidth then others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072



Well, yes it does add oversight. Oversight that I do no need. If my provider jacks my rates or limits my access then me and my wallet walks. My choice. Enough people do that and said supplier goes out of business. You socialist dopes hate capitalism don't you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72540350


No I like capitalism, it works well in most markets. I depend for my livelihood on being better and more friendly then my competition. But we are talking infrastructure here. Cost to entry are high and often times for ISP's there are monopolies in place. That's not capitalism. If you can switch your provider daily for another then no regulation needs to happen, but that is not the reality.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 42079668
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05/16/2018 07:12 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


You have your points reversed... The government payed for the infrastructure and the ISP holds a stranglehold over it to keep competition out (Lobbying plays a part). I'll grant you the government is complicit, but it is the ISP's that are creating the mess.

Giving them oversight over the content you can consume isn't smart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry can't help you.


The intense amount of brainwashing they have over you can't be easily broken.


You are so convinced that evil corporation are out to get you, despite they never have done anything wrong to you, but you feel the government is your savior.


I can't help you break that programming, that's something you will have to figure out yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Likewise I am sorry for you, that think the government is set out to harm you in every way and that regulations that limit the free market are bad.

In theory I agree that limiting a free market is bad, but when it comes to infrastructure like the internet there is no free market and monopolies quickly form because initial cost of deployment is too high. ISP's don't give a shit about you, they know you need them, they will f' you whenever possible. And your bending over and begging as the government is trying to tell them not to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Show your proof where corporations were raising internet rates unexplainably, and net neutrality helped to lower those rates.


Go on I'll be waiting here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577072
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05/16/2018 07:13 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
...


You have your points reversed... The government payed for the infrastructure and the ISP holds a stranglehold over it to keep competition out (Lobbying plays a part). I'll grant you the government is complicit, but it is the ISP's that are creating the mess.

Giving them oversight over the content you can consume isn't smart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Sorry can't help you.


The intense amount of brainwashing they have over you can't be easily broken.


You are so convinced that evil corporation are out to get you, despite they never have done anything wrong to you, but you feel the government is your savior.


I can't help you break that programming, that's something you will have to figure out yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


Likewise I am sorry for you, that think the government is set out to harm you in every way and that regulations that limit the free market are bad.

In theory I agree that limiting a free market is bad, but when it comes to infrastructure like the internet there is no free market and monopolies quickly form because initial cost of deployment is too high. ISP's don't give a shit about you, they know you need them, they will f' you whenever possible. And your bending over and begging as the government is trying to tell them not to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73577072


Show your proof where corporations were raising internet rates unexplainably, and net neutrality helped to lower those rates.


Go on I'll be waiting here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42079668


"A widely cited example of a violation of net neutrality principles was the Internet service provider Comcast's secret slowing ("throttling") of uploads from peer-to-peer file sharing (P2P) applications by using forged packets.[9] Comcast did not stop blocking these protocols, like BitTorrent, until the Federal Communications Commission ordered them to stop.[10] In another minor example, The Madison River Communications company was fined US$15,000 by the FCC, in 2004, for restricting their customers' access to Vonage, which was rivaling their own services.[11] AT&T was also caught limiting access to FaceTime, so only those users who paid for AT&T's new shared data plans could access the application.[12] In July 2017, Verizon Wireless was accused of throttling after users noticed that videos played on Netflix and YouTube were slower than usual, though Verizon commented that it was conducting "network testing" and that net neutrality rules permit "reasonable network management practices".[13]" ( [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Geez you really researched didn't you?
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2018 07:16 PM
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Re: Hell Yeah! Senate votes to reverse FCC order and restore net neutrality
The Senate today voted 52-47 to disapprove the FCC’s recent order replacing 2015’s net neutrality rules, a pleasant surprise for internet advocates and consumers throughout the country. Although the disapproval will almost certainly not lead to the new rules being undone, it is a powerful statement of solidarity with a constituency activated against this deeply unpopular order.

[link to techcrunch.com (secure)]
 Quoting: 5.0%


I guess if you trust Obama

Remember this everything Obama passed was bad, everything Obama did was against Americans

So, why would we believe that this thing that Obama started would be a good thing?

The internet was fine before 20015, so why did Obama feel the need to pass net neutrality?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76042026


The internet is the last frontier for free thinkers and free speech. Obama wanted to control it and tax it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76586077


bald faced lie





GLP