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Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:13 AM
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Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Two years ago, almost to the day:

"Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..."

[link to www.courant.com]

Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants.

In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide?

I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian.

Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:25 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Prolly just a Psy-Op...

Throwing down the "Sympathy-Gambit", preemptive call for money to finance their Pogromed redress of the (Fake) issues.

It was a grovel for more money.
.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 02:42 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
It may also have been a veiled threat. People who know secrets (like that it was a bogus banner) might get “suicided” if they talked. Sometimes death threats are very subtle. Someone might say to an enemy, “I have to go to a funeral,” or something like that.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 02:52 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Two years ago, almost to the day:

"Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..."

[link to www.courant.com]

Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants.

In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide?

I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian.

Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549




they won't commit suicide, they get "suicided" - nomesayn?
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 03:27 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
It may also have been a veiled threat. People who know secrets (like that it was a bogus banner) might get “suicided” if they talked. Sometimes death threats are very subtle. Someone might say to an enemy, “I have to go to a funeral,” or something like that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76610330


and even more effective for cooperation is not so much the threat of being killed, but more like the threat of having your loved ones killed instead....
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 04:59 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Two years ago, almost to the day:

"Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..."

[link to www.courant.com]

Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants.

In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide?

I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian.

Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549


(a) The opinion regarding suicide is from the wife of one officer, not the police chief.
(b) Mental illness problems, including PTSD, is a common issue among emergency workers worldwide.
(c) Your are an idiot.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 10:36 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Two years ago, almost to the day:

"Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..."

[link to www.courant.com]

Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants.

In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide?

I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian.

Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549


(a) The opinion regarding suicide is from the wife of one officer, not the police chief.
(b) Mental illness problems, including PTSD, is a common issue among emergency workers worldwide.
(c) Your are an idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75506405


The reason this story jumped out in the first place is because it's unusual.

The aura of guilt is palpable in the NPD interviews. Agony over guilt looks, and sounds, different than agony over a trauma to which guilt is not strongly attached.
telling it straight

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05/29/2018 10:42 AM

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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Cops have higher suicide rates than any other occupation to begin with. Then when you add the trauma of all the dead kids they say and the feeling of “guilt” in the sense of not being able to prevent it, it’s natural to be concerned that some might not be able to handle it.
~kpm~

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05/29/2018 10:47 AM

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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Personally I think police were shooting and feared they may have hit some of the kids.
~With forethought and malice Whitless enacted an EO giving nursing homes immunity from wrongful death prosecutions, forced them to take in infected patients and is responsible for over 5,551 nursing home deaths~
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 10:55 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Two years ago, almost to the day:

"Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..."

[link to www.courant.com]

Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants.

In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide?

I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian.

Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549


You don't understand PTSD.

A concern for suicidality among the men in the school does not mean the men did or covered up anything wrong.


Feeling guilty is a symptom of depression. Peoppe feel guilty about tornadoes ffs.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 10:57 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Two years ago, almost to the day:

"Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..."

[link to www.courant.com]

Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants.

In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide?

I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian.

Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549


(a) The opinion regarding suicide is from the wife of one officer, not the police chief.
(b) Mental illness problems, including PTSD, is a common issue among emergency workers worldwide.
(c) Your are an idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75506405


The reason this story jumped out in the first place is because it's unusual.

The aura of guilt is palpable in the NPD interviews. Agony over guilt looks, and sounds, different than agony over a trauma to which guilt is not strongly attached.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49143694


poppycock.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 10:58 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
What you folks must realize is that ANY police department would have significant guilt after making an unprecedented, bizarre, and fatal mistake:

Failing to let dispatch know they had discovered dozens of wounded.

That failure is a matter of public record; its interpretation is unambiguous.

There is no incident on record in the United States of America in the years before or since Sandy Hook, where an entire police force failed, to a man, to notify dispatch that the number of wounded was 15 times higher than first reported.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 11:00 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
sandy hook will live in infamy as a false flag pysop just like 911

done by the same tribe

no children died

school was condemned

media lied about everything

adam lanza never existed


etc. etc etc
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 11:01 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Yet, as you well know, we are talking about a much, much deeper guilt even than that--which is almost impossible to fathom. And yet it is true.

Deeper even than that of accidentally shooting a child.

And that, people, is why Mike Kehoe is justifiably concerned that his officers might take their own lives.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 11:04 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
( gene rosen meme/gif )
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 11:11 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Personally I think police were shooting and feared they may have hit some of the kids.
 Quoting: ~kpm~


Police were definitely shooting (likely some friendly fire between CSP and NPD, too--many CSP were not in uniform).

I'm (very sadly) confident that at least one child was hit; if it's more than one, that's even more horrific, though I didn't really think this story could get any more horrific.
~kpm~

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05/29/2018 11:39 AM

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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Personally I think police were shooting and feared they may have hit some of the kids.
 Quoting: ~kpm~


Police were definitely shooting (likely some friendly fire between CSP and NPD, too--many CSP were not in uniform).

I'm (very sadly) confident that at least one child was hit; if it's more than one, that's even more horrific, though I didn't really think this story could get any more horrific.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49143694


I know from police friends that the SH shooting was used as a training model.

Don’t know what they used though.

My brother has a family member who was killed in the latest Texas school shooting, fbi released the bodies.

My brother said the reason fbi was involved was because the incident was labeled domestic terrorism because of the bombs, my police friends said they needed to also figure out if any were killed from friendly fire.
~With forethought and malice Whitless enacted an EO giving nursing homes immunity from wrongful death prosecutions, forced them to take in infected patients and is responsible for over 5,551 nursing home deaths~
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 11:57 AM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
My brother said the reason fbi was involved was because the incident was labeled domestic terrorism because of the bombs, my police friends said they needed to also figure out if any were killed from friendly fire.
 Quoting: ~kpm~


Wow kpm - thank you for this. Part of the FBI's Sandy Hook may have been to investigate the local responding agencies themselves.

Your info leads to another important question: was NPD or CSP internal affairs (or equivalent) brought in at any point?
~kpm~

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05/29/2018 12:03 PM

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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
My brother said the reason fbi was involved was because the incident was labeled domestic terrorism because of the bombs, my police friends said they needed to also figure out if any were killed from friendly fire.
 Quoting: ~kpm~


Wow kpm - thank you for this. Part of the FBI's Sandy Hook may have been to investigate the local responding agencies themselves.

Your info leads to another important question: was NPD or CSP internal affairs (or equivalent) brought in at any point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49143694


I will ask him, it’s hit them very hard and he’s not been talking to me because they have been so busy.

The body was not released from fbi until Sunday, they were told it was a shotgun wound that caused the death and that if any family member wants to view the body it would be best to bring a turtleneck to cover up the damage.

I found that odd, but I’ve never experienced anything like this.

He did say that when they went up to Houston the all the people they were in contact with through vigils, meeting with police, etc, none were like David Hogg.

Have you noticed this shooting has literally been swept under the rug?
~With forethought and malice Whitless enacted an EO giving nursing homes immunity from wrongful death prosecutions, forced them to take in infected patients and is responsible for over 5,551 nursing home deaths~
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 12:04 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
A complicating factor is that multiple area law enforcement officers (including an NPD sergeant) were already under federal investigation at the time of the shootings.

Operation Juicebox didn't become public until 2015 (at the time of the shootings the investigation was in it's second year, best we can tell).

That's a long arc. It's pretty likely that FBI and DEA had a serious conflict of interest facing them in December 2012.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 12:45 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Cops have higher suicide rates than any other occupation to begin with. Then when you add the trauma of all the dead kids they say and the feeling of “guilt” in the sense of not being able to prevent it, it’s natural to be concerned that some might not be able to handle it.
 Quoting: telling it straight


All true, but guilt over actually killing someone can double an officer's suicide ideation.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 12:45 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Cops have higher suicide rates than any other occupation to begin with. Then when you add the trauma of all the dead kids they say and the feeling of “guilt” in the sense of not being able to prevent it, it’s natural to be concerned that some might not be able to handle it.
 Quoting: telling it straight


All true, but guilt over actually killing someone can double an officer's suicide ideation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49143694


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:00 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
It may also have been a veiled threat. People who know secrets (like that it was a bogus banner) might get “suicided” if they talked. Sometimes death threats are very subtle. Someone might say to an enemy, “I have to go to a funeral,” or something like that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76610330


agent
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:04 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Because there were NO medi-vac Helicopters called in... NONE
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:45 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Because there were NO medi-vac Helicopters called in... NONE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73697154


EMT and Ambulances were blockaded at the Fire Station?

I don't believe even one (1) EMT was allowed to enter the building...

Ha-Ha-Ha...

Sodney Schnook = HOAX ... With a capitol OAX
.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:51 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
Because there were NO medi-vac Helicopters called in... NONE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73697154


This is true, and you are right that that is a component of the guilt.

There were no helicopters for the same reason that there were only two ambulances in the first hour of the response.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:54 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
"all visitors must check in"
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 01:56 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
PTSD.

Seeing kids like that marks you.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 02:37 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 02:46 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
PTSD.

Seeing kids like that marks you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76565359


That is possible.

However, suicide ideation is much more strongly linked to direct guilt.

The soldiers returning from Iraq/'Stan with the highest levels of suicide ideation are those who personally engaged in acts of killing, not those who simply viewed the deceased.

There is a direct connection.

Journalists through history have viewed thousands upon thousands of bodies--that doesn't generally translate in to journalist suicides.

Again--Kehoe's thoughts jump out because they are "off" from the norm - but not off if you know what happened.
Anonymous Coward
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05/29/2018 02:48 PM
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Re: Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook?
PTSD.

Seeing kids like that marks you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76565359


That is possible.

However, suicide ideation is much more strongly linked to direct guilt.

The soldiers returning from Iraq/'Stan with the highest levels of suicide ideation are those who personally engaged in acts of killing, not those who simply viewed the deceased.

There is a direct connection.

Journalists through history have viewed thousands upon thousands of bodies--that doesn't generally translate in to journalist suicides.

Again--Kehoe's thoughts jump out because they are "off" from the norm - but not off if you know what happened.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68221914


And by the way, if it was simply viewing the scene that led to suicide ideation, the paramedics, and the medical examiner himself, would be expected to be in danger of suicide ideation.





GLP