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| 03:05 PM | ||
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| 03:05 PM | ||
Why did Newtown police chief think officers might "kill themselves" after Sandy Hook? | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76467549  United States05/29/2018 01:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 21346412  Canada05/29/2018 01:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76610330 United States05/29/2018 02:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It may also have been a veiled threat. People who know secrets (like that it was a bogus banner) might get “suicided” if they talked. Sometimes death threats are very subtle. Someone might say to an enemy, “I have to go to a funeral,” or something like that. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76627076 United States05/29/2018 02:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Two years ago, almost to the day: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549 "Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..." [link to www.courant.com] Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants. In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide? I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian. Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth. they won't commit suicide, they get "suicided" - nomesayn? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76627076 United States05/29/2018 03:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It may also have been a veiled threat. People who know secrets (like that it was a bogus banner) might get “suicided” if they talked. Sometimes death threats are very subtle. Someone might say to an enemy, “I have to go to a funeral,” or something like that. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76610330 and even more effective for cooperation is not so much the threat of being killed, but more like the threat of having your loved ones killed instead.... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 75506405  United Kingdom05/29/2018 04:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Two years ago, almost to the day: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549 "Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..." [link to www.courant.com] Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants. In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide? I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian. Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth. (a) The opinion regarding suicide is from the wife of one officer, not the police chief. (b) Mental illness problems, including PTSD, is a common issue among emergency workers worldwide. (c) Your are an idiot. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Two years ago, almost to the day: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549 "Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..." [link to www.courant.com] Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants. In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide? I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian. Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth. (a) The opinion regarding suicide is from the wife of one officer, not the police chief. (b) Mental illness problems, including PTSD, is a common issue among emergency workers worldwide. (c) Your are an idiot. The reason this story jumped out in the first place is because it's unusual. The aura of guilt is palpable in the NPD interviews. Agony over guilt looks, and sounds, different than agony over a trauma to which guilt is not strongly attached. |
telling it straight  User ID: 75167895 United States05/29/2018 10:42 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Cops have higher suicide rates than any other occupation to begin with. Then when you add the trauma of all the dead kids they say and the feeling of “guilt” in the sense of not being able to prevent it, it’s natural to be concerned that some might not be able to handle it. |
| ~kpm~ User ID: 75950402 United States05/29/2018 10:47 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Personally I think police were shooting and feared they may have hit some of the kids. ~With forethought and malice Whitless enacted an EO giving nursing homes immunity from wrongful death prosecutions, forced them to take in infected patients and is responsible for over 6500+ nursing home deaths~ |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76069494 United States05/29/2018 10:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Two years ago, almost to the day: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549 "Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..." [link to www.courant.com] Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants. In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide? I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian. Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth. You don't understand PTSD. A concern for suicidality among the men in the school does not mean the men did or covered up anything wrong. Feeling guilty is a symptom of depression. Peoppe feel guilty about tornadoes ffs. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76069494 United States05/29/2018 10:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Two years ago, almost to the day: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76467549 "Following the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, then-Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe asked federal agencies to help prepare a road map for how departments across the country should handle the aftermath of a mass shooting....The report...includes a three-page letter from Lori Kehoe...who wrote about how one of her husband's biggest fears was that some Newtown officers would kill themselves..." [link to www.courant.com] Let's get real here. PTSD suicides are largely the result of guilt--not simple witnessing of death. Iraq vets kill themselves over guilt for taking civilian lives (ask them), not random PTSD over operations against other gun-wielding combatants. In what other tragedy in the years before or after Sandy Hook has the primary worry been that the responding officers might later commit suicide? I don't blame the chief one bit for worrying that his men might commit suicide. That admission on his part, however, is a startling Freudian. Why would NPD officers feel so much guilt after Sandy Hook that they might become suicidal? We've already determined why. No good comes of the fraying attempt to suppress the truth. (a) The opinion regarding suicide is from the wife of one officer, not the police chief. (b) Mental illness problems, including PTSD, is a common issue among emergency workers worldwide. (c) Your are an idiot. The reason this story jumped out in the first place is because it's unusual. The aura of guilt is palpable in the NPD interviews. Agony over guilt looks, and sounds, different than agony over a trauma to which guilt is not strongly attached. poppycock. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 10:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What you folks must realize is that ANY police department would have significant guilt after making an unprecedented, bizarre, and fatal mistake: Failing to let dispatch know they had discovered dozens of wounded. That failure is a matter of public record; its interpretation is unambiguous. There is no incident on record in the United States of America in the years before or since Sandy Hook, where an entire police force failed, to a man, to notify dispatch that the number of wounded was 15 times higher than first reported. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 75307116 United States05/29/2018 11:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 11:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yet, as you well know, we are talking about a much, much deeper guilt even than that--which is almost impossible to fathom. And yet it is true. Deeper even than that of accidentally shooting a child. And that, people, is why Mike Kehoe is justifiably concerned that his officers might take their own lives. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76496680 United States05/29/2018 11:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 11:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Personally I think police were shooting and feared they may have hit some of the kids. Quoting: ~kpm~ Police were definitely shooting (likely some friendly fire between CSP and NPD, too--many CSP were not in uniform). I'm (very sadly) confident that at least one child was hit; if it's more than one, that's even more horrific, though I didn't really think this story could get any more horrific. |
| ~kpm~ User ID: 75950402 United States05/29/2018 11:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Personally I think police were shooting and feared they may have hit some of the kids. Quoting: ~kpm~ Police were definitely shooting (likely some friendly fire between CSP and NPD, too--many CSP were not in uniform). I'm (very sadly) confident that at least one child was hit; if it's more than one, that's even more horrific, though I didn't really think this story could get any more horrific. I know from police friends that the SH shooting was used as a training model. Don’t know what they used though. My brother has a family member who was killed in the latest Texas school shooting, fbi released the bodies. My brother said the reason fbi was involved was because the incident was labeled domestic terrorism because of the bombs, my police friends said they needed to also figure out if any were killed from friendly fire. ~With forethought and malice Whitless enacted an EO giving nursing homes immunity from wrongful death prosecutions, forced them to take in infected patients and is responsible for over 6500+ nursing home deaths~ |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 11:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My brother said the reason fbi was involved was because the incident was labeled domestic terrorism because of the bombs, my police friends said they needed to also figure out if any were killed from friendly fire. Quoting: ~kpm~ Wow kpm - thank you for this. Part of the FBI's Sandy Hook may have been to investigate the local responding agencies themselves. Your info leads to another important question: was NPD or CSP internal affairs (or equivalent) brought in at any point? |
| ~kpm~ User ID: 75950402 United States05/29/2018 12:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My brother said the reason fbi was involved was because the incident was labeled domestic terrorism because of the bombs, my police friends said they needed to also figure out if any were killed from friendly fire. Quoting: ~kpm~ Wow kpm - thank you for this. Part of the FBI's Sandy Hook may have been to investigate the local responding agencies themselves. Your info leads to another important question: was NPD or CSP internal affairs (or equivalent) brought in at any point? I will ask him, it’s hit them very hard and he’s not been talking to me because they have been so busy. The body was not released from fbi until Sunday, they were told it was a shotgun wound that caused the death and that if any family member wants to view the body it would be best to bring a turtleneck to cover up the damage. I found that odd, but I’ve never experienced anything like this. He did say that when they went up to Houston the all the people they were in contact with through vigils, meeting with police, etc, none were like David Hogg. Have you noticed this shooting has literally been swept under the rug? ~With forethought and malice Whitless enacted an EO giving nursing homes immunity from wrongful death prosecutions, forced them to take in infected patients and is responsible for over 6500+ nursing home deaths~ |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 12:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A complicating factor is that multiple area law enforcement officers (including an NPD sergeant) were already under federal investigation at the time of the shootings. Operation Juicebox didn't become public until 2015 (at the time of the shootings the investigation was in it's second year, best we can tell). That's a long arc. It's pretty likely that FBI and DEA had a serious conflict of interest facing them in December 2012. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 12:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Cops have higher suicide rates than any other occupation to begin with. Then when you add the trauma of all the dead kids they say and the feeling of “guilt” in the sense of not being able to prevent it, it’s natural to be concerned that some might not be able to handle it. Quoting: telling it straight All true, but guilt over actually killing someone can double an officer's suicide ideation. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 12:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Cops have higher suicide rates than any other occupation to begin with. Then when you add the trauma of all the dead kids they say and the feeling of “guilt” in the sense of not being able to prevent it, it’s natural to be concerned that some might not be able to handle it. Quoting: telling it straight All true, but guilt over actually killing someone can double an officer's suicide ideation. [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (secure)] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73666142 United States05/29/2018 01:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73697154 United States05/29/2018 01:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 3999386 Canada05/29/2018 01:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49143694 United States05/29/2018 01:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76280681 United States05/29/2018 01:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76565359 Canada05/29/2018 01:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 76280681 United States05/29/2018 02:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68221914 United States05/29/2018 02:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That is possible. However, suicide ideation is much more strongly linked to direct guilt. The soldiers returning from Iraq/'Stan with the highest levels of suicide ideation are those who personally engaged in acts of killing, not those who simply viewed the deceased. There is a direct connection. Journalists through history have viewed thousands upon thousands of bodies--that doesn't generally translate in to journalist suicides. Again--Kehoe's thoughts jump out because they are "off" from the norm - but not off if you know what happened. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68221914 United States05/29/2018 02:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That is possible. However, suicide ideation is much more strongly linked to direct guilt. The soldiers returning from Iraq/'Stan with the highest levels of suicide ideation are those who personally engaged in acts of killing, not those who simply viewed the deceased. There is a direct connection. Journalists through history have viewed thousands upon thousands of bodies--that doesn't generally translate in to journalist suicides. Again--Kehoe's thoughts jump out because they are "off" from the norm - but not off if you know what happened. And by the way, if it was simply viewing the scene that led to suicide ideation, the paramedics, and the medical examiner himself, would be expected to be in danger of suicide ideation. |
