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Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel

 
Christian
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06/22/2018 09:37 PM
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Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel


We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

God bless
Berf Snurple

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06/22/2018 09:54 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I don't agree with this guy. He's saying that an angel brought a different gospel. The term "everlasting gospel" just refers to the fact that Christ's sacrifice was once, for all, and everlasting. Paul simply said that if he, an angel, or anyone else preached something different. he should be accursed.

I don't worry too much about tribulation timelines, given that each of us is mortal, and our own deaths are the ultimate revelation for each of us. Christians have been dying for centuries not seeing the last days events, yet they have gone on to either be with God or not. The rapture itself could be viewed as a very rapid group death, resurrection, and ascension event, assuming that it exists.

Yashua shed his blood once and for all for the remission of sins, and He said, "It is finished.". The price has been paid. Now we simply appropriate the gift through faith and repentance.
Achduke7

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06/22/2018 10:01 PM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel


We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

God bless
 Quoting: Christian 73629321


Does that mean Paul is cursing the Apostles that teach a different Gospel?

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed



No, Because they taught the same gospel. Christ is not divided! One Body and One Spirit.


1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;


Last Edited by Achduke7 on 06/22/2018 10:02 PM
Achduke
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I don't agree with this guy. He's saying that an angel brought a different gospel. The term "everlasting gospel" just refers to the fact that Christ's sacrifice was once, for all, and everlasting. Paul simply said that if he, an angel, or anyone else preached something different. he should be accursed.

I don't worry too much about tribulation timelines, given that each of us is mortal, and our own deaths are the ultimate revelation for each of us. Christians have been dying for centuries not seeing the last days events, yet they have gone on to either be with God or not. The rapture itself could be viewed as a very rapid group death, resurrection, and ascension event, assuming that it exists.

Yashua shed his blood once and for all for the remission of sins, and He said, "It is finished.". The price has been paid. Now we simply appropriate the gift through faith and repentance.
 Quoting: Berf Snurple


Scripture is saying that an angel WILL bring a different Gospel, if you read Revelation it is there.

Do not blindly believe the person, check with Scripture.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel


We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

God bless
 Quoting: Christian 73629321


Does that mean Paul is cursing the Apostles that teach a different Gospel?

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed



No, Because they taught the same gospel. Christ is not divided! One Body and One Spirit.


1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

 Quoting: Achduke7


Achduke, here you are again trying to impart some Biblical knowledge, when you did not even know how we were saved up until 4 days ago.

Please, just stop.
Achduke7

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06/23/2018 01:16 AM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel


We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

God bless
 Quoting: Christian 73629321


Does that mean Paul is cursing the Apostles that teach a different Gospel?

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed



No, Because they taught the same gospel. Christ is not divided! One Body and One Spirit.


1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

 Quoting: Achduke7


Achduke, here you are again trying to impart some Biblical knowledge, when you did not even know how we were saved up until 4 days ago.

Please, just stop.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Ah Shill, still making up lies and bumping threads. Here is a video that may help unravel your delusion instead of a guy with a marker and a dry erase board.

Btw, you should pay for an ID instead of being AC. That way people can always see you like to be called shill.


Achduke
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel


We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

God bless
 Quoting: Christian 73629321


Does that mean Paul is cursing the Apostles that teach a different Gospel?

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed



No, Because they taught the same gospel. Christ is not divided! One Body and One Spirit.


1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

 Quoting: Achduke7


Achduke, here you are again trying to impart some Biblical knowledge, when you did not even know how we were saved up until 4 days ago.

Please, just stop.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Ah Shill, still making up lies and bumping threads. Here is a video that may help unravel your delusion instead of a guy with a marker and a dry erase board.

Btw, you should pay for an ID instead of being AC. That way people can always see you like to be called shill.


 Quoting: Achduke7


Baptism does not save you, faith in Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice saves you.

Lose the name-calling and humble yourself.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Here. Watch and learn what the Bible says in irefutable discussion. Anyone can understand the timing of the Rature.

Dispensationalism is flat out wrong and contrary to Scripture.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Gospel of Salvation = 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,


Jesus did not preach this to Israel, because He had not even died yet. Different gospel for different people in different times.


1 Corinthians 9:17
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Emphasis added. This is Scriptural and obvious to the honest believer who truly has an open mind and heart.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
This is ridiculous. Just because a word is used doesn't validate dispensationalism.

Watch the video to the multiple errors of dispensationalism and the creepy Schoefield who organized this heretical doctrine.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I don't agree with this guy. He's saying that an angel brought a different gospel. The term "everlasting gospel" just refers to the fact that Christ's sacrifice was once, for all, and everlasting. Paul simply said that if he, an angel, or anyone else preached something different. he should be accursed.

I don't worry too much about tribulation timelines, given that each of us is mortal, and our own deaths are the ultimate revelation for each of us.

Christians have been dying for centuries not seeing the last days events, yet they have gone on to either be with God or not.

The rapture itself could be viewed as a very rapid group death, resurrection, and ascension event, assuming that it exists.

Yashua shed his blood once and for all for the remission of sins, and He said, "It is finished.". The price has been paid. Now we simply appropriate the gift through faith and repentance.
 Quoting: Berf Snurple


REVELATION 22
12 And, behold, I come quickly


And indeed He does.
Our lives go by in the blink of an eye,
and we find ourselves standing before HIM.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Since the early eighties, one of the most frequent comments among men who regularly read the Bible is an aside about the Rapture that goes something like, "I don't get the pre-trib and dispensationalism because the more I read it is contrary to Scripture."

I cannot tell you how often I have heard that as faithful guys come right out and say it's wrong.

In fact, now it is not essential to believe it as so many people believe suffering through the Tribulation, Rapture of the Christians, then Wrath.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
When you actuallynsit down and scrutinize dispensationalism and pre-tribulation nonsense, it falls apart like wet tissue paper. It doesn't agree with Scripture.
Berf Snurple

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
When you actuallynsit down and scrutinize dispensationalism and pre-tribulation nonsense, it falls apart like wet tissue paper. It doesn't agree with Scripture.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


It would be helpful if you would support your stance with some key quotes that refute dispensationalism. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm saying that merely stating that something is wrong is not the same as refuting it with authoritative support.
Achduke7

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Lose the name-calling and humble yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Member ID 197290
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Does this mean you are going to start a fruitful dialog and stop following people from thread to tread calling yourself "Expose ALL Shills" and actually use scripture? You barely produce any scripture and below are the comments to me from you over the past week. You say to stop name calling and humble yourself but where is your humility?


And how do we now get sealed with the Holy Spirit?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


At which point I posted Acts 2 because that is where Peter explains to Israel how to receive the Holy Spirit. I believe we the church are Israel all graft in. There is no separation from Israel and the church. So I did answer your question but then you continued to badger and badger continuously. I also answered this to your physical baptism question.

Did you ask if baptism was necessary? I would say no. We are already saved before we are baptized. The act of baptism is a symbol of our devotion. A work after we are saved. Much like a wedding ring symbolized the marriage.

You are still not rightly dividing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


And it is noted you have just contradicted yourself on how we are saved, I hope others steer clear of any 'advice' you give.

That is all
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


You did not even know how we were saved. Baptism required, then it wasn't..


Just stop
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848



How do we get saved?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


We have been through this, it is obvious you will look for every excuse to move the church into Israel's place.

As Baloney said, that is false replacement theology.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Baloney never even specifies what his false replacement theology is. Show us scripture.

Again I must ask, how do we (Gentiles in 2018 not first century Israelites) get saved?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Still avoiding the question eh duke
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Post it for the others who you should care about, duke.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Save your time brother. He is not interested in the truth, as he cannot even tell others what we must believe in to be saved.

He has been exposed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


You have been exposed, nobody is listening to your attempts at deceit anymore.

Baptism does not save you, faith in Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice saves you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848




Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Galatians 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jevvs or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 6:3 For surely you know that when we were baptized into union with Christ Jesus, we were baptized into union with his death.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Achduke
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
This is ridiculous. Just because a word is used doesn't validate dispensationalism.

Watch the video to the multiple errors of dispensationalism and the creepy Schoefield who organized this heretical doctrine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


Did Jesus preach the Gospel of Salvation to Israel?

Yes or no
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Since the early eighties, one of the most frequent comments among men who regularly read the Bible is an aside about the Rapture that goes something like, "I don't get the pre-trib and dispensationalism because the more I read it is contrary to Scripture."

I cannot tell you how often I have heard that as faithful guys come right out and say it's wrong.

In fact, now it is not essential to believe it as so many people believe suffering through the Tribulation, Rapture of the Christians, then Wrath.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


All must happen at the same time according to their heretical theory.
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel


We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

God bless
 Quoting: Christian 73629321


retards2
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Just watch the After the Tribulation video. I have had this conversation too many times. You drank the koolaid. Dispensationalism is so from what the Bible says that is is almost like you are obtuse.

The only way Dispensationalism hold up is with a Schoefield bible to prop it up with their fake footnotes.
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Just watch the After the Tribulation video. I have had this conversation too many times. You drank the koolaid. Dispensationalism is so from what the Bible says that is is almost like you are obtuse.

The only way Dispensationalism hold up is with a Schoefield bible to prop it up with their fake footnotes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


Did Jesus preach the Gospel of Salvation to Israel, or no?

Did 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 apply to them, or no?
TheLordsServant

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
John 3:16 is THE basis for Faith / Belief. It requires total acceptance that God exists, that He sent His Son, and that you believe that Jesus IS the Son of God.

That's not the ONLY thing that get's you Saved though.

The other is repentenance. Check this out

Old Testament - God constantly has prophets tell His people to Repent to be forgiven.
New Testament Gospels - What did John the Baptist and Jesus first teach? Repent

Four stories in the Bible show us that folks from the OT WERE being saved.

1. Enoch was "taken"
2. Elijah was taken...then appeared at Jesus transfiguration (Matthew 17:3 & Luke 9:30)
3. Moses appeared at Jesus transfiguration
4. The story told by Jesus (in Luke 16:19-31) about Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man who had died.

The keys to the OT folks?
They Believed in God
They repented

Matthew 4:17 (NKJV)

17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Mark 1:15 And saying*, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe* the gospel.

Another thought to add...baptism not needed for Salvation.

Luke 23

39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us."
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong."

42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Even though the thief was already a God-fearing person, he...

***Acknowledges his sin and accepts his punishment.

***Calls Jesus Lord and recognizes His Kingdom.

These filled the basic requirements for Salvation, which is why Jesus told him what he would do for him.

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 06/23/2018 07:23 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
freedomsnotfree1

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Gospel of Salvation = 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,


Jesus did not preach this to Israel, because He had not even died yet. Different gospel for different people in different times.


1 Corinthians 9:17
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Emphasis added. This is Scriptural and obvious to the honest believer who truly has an open mind and heart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


spot on my brother... only Paul peaches to the body... the earthly teaching of Christ was to the priesthood (Israel)...
totally different message and relationship...
freedomsnotfree1
freedomsnotfree1

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Just watch the After the Tribulation video. I have had this conversation too many times. You drank the koolaid. Dispensationalism is so from what the Bible says that is is almost like you are obtuse.

The only way Dispensationalism hold up is with a Schoefield bible to prop it up with their fake footnotes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


Did Jesus preach the Gospel of Salvation to Israel, or no?

Did 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 apply to them, or no?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


The priesthood has been blinded to the message concerning the body (Pauls message to the Gentiles)... "For blindness in part has come unto the house of Israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in" ...

The priesthood is the priesthood... the body is the body... only 13 books are to the body... all written by Paul, through the guiding of the ASCENDED Lord...Paul's message was unheard of until at least 10 years AFTER Pentecost...

all the promises to the priesthood are earthly... all the promises to the body are heavenly
freedomsnotfree1
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Look, pre-trib folks have their hearts in the right place but have adopted a doctrine that is abiblical. It is not fluid in Scripture and requires jumps through hoops that fundamentally alter Matthew 24.

Read it. The disciples were concerned. They knew Jesus was leaving. They also knew that tribulation was around the corner...ie that they would be persecuted in the absence if his presence as the throng of believers was a layer of protection.

So what does Jesus himself say?

When does Jesus say his believers are gathered? Don't read your Scofield Bibke fotnotes, what does the text actually say?

This is the beginning of wisdom. Schofield has to fundamentally alter the Rapture in order to make you think it is before the Tribulation.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

False Christs

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Witnessing to All Nations

(Mark 13:10-13; Luke 21:10-19)

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Abomination of Desolation

(Mark 13:14-23; Luke 21:20-24)

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

The Return of the Son of Man

(Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Look, pre-trib folks have their hearts in the right place but have adopted a doctrine that is abiblical...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


In your opinion.

I disagree.

Why does that bother you so much?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Jesus is talking to his most faithful disciples and saying they will be persecuted. They will go through the Tribulation. Then after the Abomination of Desolation, the Rapture happens.

That is exactly what the text says. Anything else is contrary to Scripture...and it's a warning to prepare.

This is why the pre-trib doctrine is so horrible as some pastors actually say, "You don't need to prep as you will be raptured and not suffer!".

What does Matthew 25 say?


The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Both the foolish and the wise virgins waited for Jesus to come for the Bride which is the Church. Both are fervent and want the Bridegroom to come. But some have oil as they do not know how long it will be and they need it for their lamp. They need supplies of oil or they willbe unable to watch as they willbe in darkness.

The oil is not a metapohor for faith. That is not in the text. It is an immediate warning following Matthew 24 and it is practical.
Anonymous Coward
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06/23/2018 08:08 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Look, pre-trib folks have their hearts in the right place but have adopted a doctrine that is abiblical...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


In your opinion.

I disagree.

Why does that bother you so much?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76699255


"abiblical?" New one on me. You?

I guess we are "abiblical?"

Oh dear. That does not sound good.
Anonymous Coward
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06/23/2018 08:11 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
There is no way to misinterpret Matthew 24 as it is a timeline that is extremely specific and in an order and directed to the most faithful.

It is not directed to nonbelievers who might come to believe which is what dispensationalists say.

After the tribulation...so says Jesus himself.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
freedomsnotfree1

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06/23/2018 08:11 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Look, pre-trib folks have their hearts in the right place but have adopted a doctrine that is abiblical. It is not fluid in Scripture and requires jumps through hoops that fundamentally alter Matthew 24.

Read it. The disciples were concerned. They knew Jesus was leaving. They also knew that tribulation was around the corner...ie that they would be persecuted in the absence if his presence as the throng of believers was a layer of protection.

So what does Jesus himself say?

When does Jesus say his believers are gathered? Don't read your Scofield Bibke fotnotes, what does the text actually say?

This is the beginning of wisdom. Schofield has to fundamentally alter the Rapture in order to make you think it is before the Tribulation.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

False Christs

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Witnessing to All Nations

(Mark 13:10-13; Luke 21:10-19)

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Abomination of Desolation

(Mark 13:14-23; Luke 21:20-24)

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

The Return of the Son of Man

(Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are all addressing the Priesthood and had no concept of Pauls message to the gentiles... only Paul addresses the gentiles... and Christ CLEARLY states his earthly message is to Israel (the priesthood)... why do you not believe this?
freedomsnotfree1
Anonymous Coward
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06/23/2018 08:12 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Point to one verse stating a gathering of believers before the Tribulation.

I'll wait.
freedomsnotfree1

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06/23/2018 08:18 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
There is no way to misinterpret Matthew 24 as it is a timeline that is extremely specific and in an order and directed to the most faithful.

It is not directed to nonbelievers who might come to believe which is what dispensationalists say.

After the tribulation...so says Jesus himself.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210

...that message is to the priesthood (Israel) NOT the body of Christ
freedomsnotfree1