Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,391 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 688,996
Pageviews Today: 1,050,436Threads Today: 234Posts Today: 5,381
04:37 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/23/2018 11:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The verses that Pastor Anderson uses are from the Bible. Jesus said these words which dispensationalists find offensive.

If you deny Jesus, and Jesus is our only mediator and advocate, then you are an antichrist going to Hell.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 12:32 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Jesus is talking to his most faithful disciples and saying they will be persecuted. They will go through the Tribulation. Then after the Abomination of Desolation, the Rapture happens.

That is exactly what the text says. Anything else is contrary to Scripture...and it's a warning to prepare.

This is why the pre-trib doctrine is so horrible as some pastors actually say, "You don't need to prep as you will be raptured and not suffer!".

What does Matthew 25 say?


The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Both the foolish and the wise virgins waited for Jesus to come for the Bride which is the Church. Both are fervent and want the Bridegroom to come. But some have oil as they do not know how long it will be and they need it for their lamp. They need supplies of oil or they willbe unable to watch as they willbe in darkness.

The oil is not a metapohor for faith. That is not in the text. It is an immediate warning following Matthew 24 and it is practical.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


..And it all happened to the people of his time, just as he said it would, by 70 A.D. All of it. There is absolutely nothing in Matthew that is future for us(prophetically)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 12:39 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Nope. There are lots of things that have to happen with the Tribulation and during Wrath.

It's nonsense that 70 AD fulfilled these prophecies. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The world is not entirely under GOD's control after 70 AD.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 12:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Acts 2 - Read it slowly and carefully a few times. The days of prophecy were for THEIR days, not ours.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; <-- Not like it's going to be, not something like, it WAS IT! Then he QUOTES the 700 year old prophecy that was to be fulfilled saying it WAS happening.

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 01:16 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Nope. There are lots of things that have to happen with the Tribulation and during Wrath.

It's nonsense that 70 AD fulfilled these prophecies. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The world is not entirely under GOD's control after 70 AD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


The Bible will prove you very wrong, you are just using your modern mind in attempting to understand the Bible.
What kind of idiotic statement is "the world is not entirely under God's control"? What are you even talking about, it always has been and always will be, that is not what the Bible is about. However, as long as there is freewill, there will always be people who chose evil, but now that we are in the New Age, under the New Covenant..

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

6 "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

There is redemption from sin and sin has always been THE PROBLEM!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 01:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Acts 2 - Read it slowly and carefully a few times. The days of prophecy were for THEIR days, not ours.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; <-- Not like it's going to be, not something like, it WAS IT! Then he QUOTES the 700 year old prophecy that was to be fulfilled saying it WAS happening.

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


What does this have to do with your thesis?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 01:21 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Nope. There are lots of things that have to happen with the Tribulation and during Wrath.

It's nonsense that 70 AD fulfilled these prophecies. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The world is not entirely under GOD's control after 70 AD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


The Bible will prove you very wrong, you are just using your modern mind in attempting to understand the Bible.
What kind of idiotic statement is "the world is not entirely under God's control"? What are you even talking about, it always has been and always will be, that is not what the Bible is about. However, as long as there is freewill, there will always be people who chose evil, but now that we are in the New Age, under the New Covenant..

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

6 "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

There is redemption from sin and sin has always been THE PROBLEM!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286

I KNOW you have never read Revelation. It's ridiculous to conclude that these prophecies were completed after 70 AD.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 01:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
By all means, Sport, show how the book of Revelation has concluded. You should have no trouble, if all was accomplished in 70 AD.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 01:34 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
By all means, Sport, show how the book of Revelation has concluded. You should have no trouble, if all was accomplished in 70 AD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


So lets start here, any honest person that studies history will agree Revelations was written BEFORE 70 A.D as he was in persecution under Nero (who hated Christians) So what does this book start out with? The test of a true prophet is whether or not what he says comes to pass.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: <-- Wait, so you want me to believe we are still waiting 2000 years now?

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. <-- I believe him, do you? Or are you still waiting?

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; <-- Those are real, historic churches of his day, not yours or mine.

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. <-- So just as Christ told them in the Gospels, some of them would STILL BE ALIVE when he came back in judgement..

That's a good start, but you will over look the OBVIOUS and attempt to focus on the less clear, less clear to you because you can't accept what it actually says through the scriptures.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75409848
United States
06/24/2018 01:38 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 01:45 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Now lets see how Revelations ends. Revelations 22

6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. <-- Again, you think we are still waiting?

7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. <-- Can't get much more clear.

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. So Daniel is told 700 years before Revelations to seal up the prophecy for the time was not at hand, here John is told the OPPOSITE it was happening now!

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. <-- This verse gives you clarity in case you were confused (like you are) about just how soon it would be, so soon that there wasn't even time to attempt to save the wicked any longer!

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. <-- I mean, now you just have to be dumb to keep misunderstanding God's word, how many times does he have to tell you?

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 01:58 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


See you got this all wrong looking at the "tribulation" as some future for you event... This WAS the tribulation that Christians suffered from the time of the Messiahs's death until 70 A.D! Why 70 A.D? Because that was God's divorcement from Old Covenant Israel and the transition into the NEW Covenant through the Messiah! IT had Not happened yet at the time of writers of the New Testaments and it was what they were looking FOR!

They lived in a very special time, a time BETWEEN TWO COVENANTS! They were the First fruits of the New covenant, Christ being the first! Now tell me how on earth are people the first fruits of an event that hasn't happened yet in your crazy timeline???? 2000 years of Christians dying, the persecution of those spreading the early church but some unknown group of people in the future are the first fruits?

This is also why their "robes" needed to be washed, they were born into the old covenant age. But accepted and followed the Messiah, see how much more sense this makes?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75409848
United States
06/24/2018 02:04 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


See you got this all wrong looking at the "tribulation" as some future for you event... This WAS the tribulation that Christians suffered from the time of the Messiahs's death until 70 A.D! Why 70 A.D? Because that was God's divorcement from Old Covenant Israel and the transition into the NEW Covenant through the Messiah! IT had Not happened yet at the time of writers of the New Testaments and it was what they were looking FOR!

They lived in a very special time, a time BETWEEN TWO COVENANTS! They were the First fruits of the New covenant, Christ being the first! Now tell me how on earth are people the first fruits of an event that hasn't happened yet in your crazy timeline???? 2000 years of Christians dying, the persecution of those spreading the early church but some unknown group of people in the future are the first fruits?

This is also why their "robes" needed to be washed, they were born into the old covenant age. But accepted and followed the Messiah, see how much more sense this makes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


I have no idea how someone can read Revelation (from a good translation) and think all that has already happened.

Or Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21. Please, do your due diligence. The Bible is filled with prophecy, foretelling of FUTURE events. What you are saying is nonsensical at best, and heresy at worst.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 02:08 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Do you honestly not understand who Matthew 23 was written to and about? If you understand that Revelations is not as Mysterious as you are attempting to make it. At the time of the writing of every book in the Bible, God had only been "married" to one people, only one people had his prophets sent to them telling them to repent, only one group of people crucified the Messiah, God's son. If you don't get that, you can't understand Revelations imo. Because Revelations is not a book unto itself.

Take the time to watch this and learn some real history that allows one to understand the Bible much more clearly than attempting to superimpose it into modern times.
The Fall of Jerusalem and the Apocalypse

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 02:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


See you got this all wrong looking at the "tribulation" as some future for you event... This WAS the tribulation that Christians suffered from the time of the Messiahs's death until 70 A.D! Why 70 A.D? Because that was God's divorcement from Old Covenant Israel and the transition into the NEW Covenant through the Messiah! IT had Not happened yet at the time of writers of the New Testaments and it was what they were looking FOR!

They lived in a very special time, a time BETWEEN TWO COVENANTS! They were the First fruits of the New covenant, Christ being the first! Now tell me how on earth are people the first fruits of an event that hasn't happened yet in your crazy timeline???? 2000 years of Christians dying, the persecution of those spreading the early church but some unknown group of people in the future are the first fruits?

This is also why their "robes" needed to be washed, they were born into the old covenant age. But accepted and followed the Messiah, see how much more sense this makes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


I have no idea how someone can read Revelation (from a good translation) and think all that has already happened.

Or Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21. Please, do your due diligence. The Bible is filled with prophecy, foretelling of FUTURE events. What you are saying is nonsensical at best, and heresy at worst.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


O'k man, seriously , read this real slowly with me and be honestly with yourself.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. <-- Be honest with yourself, not what some idiot has taught you and read that for yourself, attempt to make that mean anything other than what it clearly says and in context.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. <-- NOT YOURS! THEIRS!

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! <-- CLEAR AS DAY, Not Rome, not Muslims ect

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75409848
United States
06/24/2018 02:13 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Do you honestly not understand who Matthew 23 was written to and about? If you understand that Revelations is not as Mysterious as you are attempting to make it. At the time of the writing of every book in the Bible, God had only been "married" to one people, only one people had his prophets sent to them telling them to repent, only one group of people crucified the Messiah, God's son. If you don't get that, you can't understand Revelations imo. Because Revelations is not a book unto itself.

Take the time to watch this and learn some real history that allows one to understand the Bible much more clearly than attempting to superimpose it into modern times.
The Fall of Jerusalem and the Apocalypse


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


Please tell us, how are we saved today?

Salvation is the issue of utmost importance here. If we agree on how we are saved now then our views about future events can be discarded.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 02:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


See you got this all wrong looking at the "tribulation" as some future for you event... This WAS the tribulation that Christians suffered from the time of the Messiahs's death until 70 A.D! Why 70 A.D? Because that was God's divorcement from Old Covenant Israel and the transition into the NEW Covenant through the Messiah! IT had Not happened yet at the time of writers of the New Testaments and it was what they were looking FOR!

They lived in a very special time, a time BETWEEN TWO COVENANTS! They were the First fruits of the New covenant, Christ being the first! Now tell me how on earth are people the first fruits of an event that hasn't happened yet in your crazy timeline???? 2000 years of Christians dying, the persecution of those spreading the early church but some unknown group of people in the future are the first fruits?

This is also why their "robes" needed to be washed, they were born into the old covenant age. But accepted and followed the Messiah, see how much more sense this makes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


I have no idea how someone can read Revelation (from a good translation) and think all that has already happened.

Or Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21. Please, do your due diligence. The Bible is filled with prophecy, foretelling of FUTURE events. What you are saying is nonsensical at best, and heresy at worst.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Matthew 24

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. <-- They are asking about this amazing Temple, it is the CONTEXT of everything else in this chapter!

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. <-- That same Temple, which is the context of their talk, is going to be destroyed!

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

<-- Within that same context of the destruction of the Temple they equated it with the END OF THE WORLD(Actually Age) and his COMING! The Temple, before their Eyes, a real Temple they were just in, not some non existent, distant future, rebuilt, 3rd physical Temple 2000+ years into the future craziness.

Everything else after this is within THAT CONTEXT! And it all makes much more sense when you can see it for what it clearly says!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 02:26 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Do you honestly not understand who Matthew 23 was written to and about? If you understand that Revelations is not as Mysterious as you are attempting to make it. At the time of the writing of every book in the Bible, God had only been "married" to one people, only one people had his prophets sent to them telling them to repent, only one group of people crucified the Messiah, God's son. If you don't get that, you can't understand Revelations imo. Because Revelations is not a book unto itself.

Take the time to watch this and learn some real history that allows one to understand the Bible much more clearly than attempting to superimpose it into modern times.
The Fall of Jerusalem and the Apocalypse


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


Please tell us, how are we saved today?

Salvation is the issue of utmost importance here. If we agree on how we are saved now then our views about future events can be discarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


By grace, through the one time for all time sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ, who has become the mediator between God and Man, his blood alone can atone for sin, this was not possible in the Old Covenant. This is why the New covenant we have been under for 2000 years now is so important. It's a victory, we are not suppose to be living in fear but rejoicing. This is a much stronger witness than attempting to scare people to God via some great Tribulation.

What i'm seeing with this "tribulation salvation" is, you are looking at people redeemed OUT of the old covenant and since you think it's future, believe it's some future salvation? or something, I honestly had never heard of this before, its very odd. It isn't found anywhere else in the Bible, that alone would tell you something is wrong.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 02:28 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
'Just when did Jesus come in the clouds after 70 AD?


You're making me SNORT with laughter!

'Still waiting for a single verse showing a pre-trib Rapture. Come on, this should be easy if they exist.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75409848
United States
06/24/2018 02:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
The point is that the way for us to be saved now (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Gospel of Salvation) will not be the same for those in the tribulation.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

^^Jesus washed us through faith in His atoning sacrifice


Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

^^Tribulation saints did works + have faith, and washed their own robes.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

1. Tribulation saints must fear God for salvation
2. Tribulation saints must give God glory for salvation
3. Tribulation saints must worship God for salvation

Tribulation saints must also NOT take the mark for salvation. These are all works, in addition to having faith in God.

See the difference? If you believe the angel in Revelation 14 who preaches the everlasting gospel is from God, then Paul must have been wrong in Galatians 1 when he said any man or angel who preaches another gospel would be accursed. Then you are denying Scripture, and have a host of other problems.

Rightly divide the Word of Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Do you honestly not understand who Matthew 23 was written to and about? If you understand that Revelations is not as Mysterious as you are attempting to make it. At the time of the writing of every book in the Bible, God had only been "married" to one people, only one people had his prophets sent to them telling them to repent, only one group of people crucified the Messiah, God's son. If you don't get that, you can't understand Revelations imo. Because Revelations is not a book unto itself.

Take the time to watch this and learn some real history that allows one to understand the Bible much more clearly than attempting to superimpose it into modern times.
The Fall of Jerusalem and the Apocalypse


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


Please tell us, how are we saved today?

Salvation is the issue of utmost importance here. If we agree on how we are saved now then our views about future events can be discarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


By grace, through the one time for all time sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ, who has become the mediator between God and Man, his blood alone can atone for sin, this was not possible in the Old Covenant. This is why the New covenant we have been under for 2000 years now is so important. It's a victory, we are not suppose to be living in fear but rejoicing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


We agree on this. Why should the body of Christ be divided by other doctrinal issues, and waste time arguing with each other?

We have better things to do, lost people to minister to.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75409848
United States
06/24/2018 02:34 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Gospel of Salvation is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, let us spread the good news in meekness and humility to the lost.

1. Jesus died on the cross
2. For our sins
3. Jesus was buried
4. Jesus rose again
5. All of this is according to the Scriptures, the Holy Bible
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 02:37 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
...


Do you honestly not understand who Matthew 23 was written to and about? If you understand that Revelations is not as Mysterious as you are attempting to make it. At the time of the writing of every book in the Bible, God had only been "married" to one people, only one people had his prophets sent to them telling them to repent, only one group of people crucified the Messiah, God's son. If you don't get that, you can't understand Revelations imo. Because Revelations is not a book unto itself.

Take the time to watch this and learn some real history that allows one to understand the Bible much more clearly than attempting to superimpose it into modern times.
The Fall of Jerusalem and the Apocalypse


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


Please tell us, how are we saved today?

Salvation is the issue of utmost importance here. If we agree on how we are saved now then our views about future events can be discarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


By grace, through the one time for all time sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ, who has become the mediator between God and Man, his blood alone can atone for sin, this was not possible in the Old Covenant. This is why the New covenant we have been under for 2000 years now is so important. It's a victory, we are not suppose to be living in fear but rejoicing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


We agree on this. Why should the body of Christ be divided by other doctrinal issues, and waste time arguing with each other?

We have better things to do, lost people to minister to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


While I agree with your main point, I would argue it is very important in the pursuit of preaching the Gospel and defending the authenticity of the Bible.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75409848
United States
06/24/2018 02:49 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
...


Please tell us, how are we saved today?

Salvation is the issue of utmost importance here. If we agree on how we are saved now then our views about future events can be discarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


By grace, through the one time for all time sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ, who has become the mediator between God and Man, his blood alone can atone for sin, this was not possible in the Old Covenant. This is why the New covenant we have been under for 2000 years now is so important. It's a victory, we are not suppose to be living in fear but rejoicing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


We agree on this. Why should the body of Christ be divided by other doctrinal issues, and waste time arguing with each other?

We have better things to do, lost people to minister to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


While I agree with your main point, I would argue it is very important in the pursuit of preaching the Gospel and defending the authenticity of the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


There are many ways to reach a person, everyone is different. Some people (speaking of non-believers) are more receptive to science, like creation vs evolution. A lot of eyes and hearts are opened that way.

Some people like conspiracy theories, especially after 9/11. It is easy to transition to the Bible through some other random topics that we see on GLP.

It is a simple trick of the devil to divide the brethren though these other issues.

Let us agree in Christ, God bless you in Jesus' name.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 03:01 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
'Just when did Jesus come in the clouds after 70 AD?


You're making me SNORT with laughter!

'Still waiting for a single verse showing a pre-trib Rapture. Come on, this should be easy if they exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


I know, I know, it's so funny! Hey, did you by chance read Isaiah 65 and understand that's the same "New Heavens and New Earth" as Revelations??? You know , the New Covenant? Isn't it funny how amazingly Isaiah 65, a 700 year old prophecy fits exactly with the bringing in of the New Covenant and the Christian age? Or do think these are two different New Heavens and New Earths??

65 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; <-- Old Covenant Israel who is going to get divorced and did in A.D 70!

3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8 Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.[/u] <-- What is this? 700 year old prophecy of the Messiah? Destroying them all but for a small remnant!

9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
<--Why yes, it is the Messiah, the Inheritor!

10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

11 But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. <-- Prophecy of the judgment coming in A.D 70!

13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: Followers of the Messiah vs Old covenant Israel

14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. Old covenant Israel vs New covenant Christians!

15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: <-- They will be called by a NEW name!

16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. <-- New Heaves and earth = New Covenant same as Revelations!

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. <-- The real Jerusalem! One not made with hands.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

So you honestly believe that has not happened yet? You are missing the blessing all around you. This earth is without end, the Christian Age is without end and we are going on year 2000 (roughly) now.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76203286
United States
06/24/2018 03:05 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
...


By grace, through the one time for all time sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ, who has become the mediator between God and Man, his blood alone can atone for sin, this was not possible in the Old Covenant. This is why the New covenant we have been under for 2000 years now is so important. It's a victory, we are not suppose to be living in fear but rejoicing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


We agree on this. Why should the body of Christ be divided by other doctrinal issues, and waste time arguing with each other?

We have better things to do, lost people to minister to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


While I agree with your main point, I would argue it is very important in the pursuit of preaching the Gospel and defending the authenticity of the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76203286


There are many ways to reach a person, everyone is different. Some people (speaking of non-believers) are more receptive to science, like creation vs evolution. A lot of eyes and hearts are opened that way.

Some people like conspiracy theories, especially after 9/11. It is easy to transition to the Bible through some other random topics that we see on GLP.

It is a simple trick of the devil to divide the brethren though these other issues.

Let us agree in Christ, God bless you in Jesus' name.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


Hey, I agree, I say that all the time, Christians have a lot of different views but as long as they agree on salvation they ARE a Christian and should be treated as brothers. But that doesn't mean we should strive to understand as much as possible, but definitely without hostilities. Way to many Christians toss around the word Heresy far too often. It's a good way to see who's after control or saving lost souls.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76250665
United States
06/24/2018 06:42 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Otherwise, the Gospels would not be for Christians according to your heretical belief of dispensationalism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


Christ himself tells us that his earthly message is to Israel only (the priesthood)...that would include the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

We are also told Paul is the apostle of the gentiles and that it's by HIS gospel we (gentiles)are saved... do you believe what the word of GOD says, or does it interfere with what you believe...
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


Even when you quote Scripture (ex. Matthew 15:24), they refuse to listen.

Not sure why
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75409848


blindness.... 2Corinthians4:3 if the truth be hid, it is hid to them that are lost (4)In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds, that is, of the infidels, that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, which is the image of GOD, should not shine unto them.

Thank you my brother for spreading truth...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 07:53 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Hours later...no Bible verses on a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Hmmm. What do you know? Maybe because they don't exist!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76250665
United States
06/24/2018 08:02 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Hours later...no Bible verses on a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Hmmm. What do you know? Maybe because they don't exist!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


1 Thess:4

13 I would not brethren, have you ignorant concerning they which are asleep, that ye sorrow not even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus is dead, and is risen, even so them which sleep in Jesus, will God bring with him.15 For this say we unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which live, and are remaining in the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which sleep.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then shall we which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.18 Wherefore, comfort yourselves one another with these words.

2 Thess:2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,2 That ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as it were from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand.3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that [h]that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.4 Which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doth sit as God in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

1 Corinthians 15:51

Behold, I show you a secret thing, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall blow, and the dead shall be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 08:13 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
Hours later...no Bible verses on a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Hmmm. What do you know? Maybe because they don't exist!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


1 Thess:4

13 I would not brethren, have you ignorant concerning they which are asleep, that ye sorrow not even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus is dead, and is risen, even so them which sleep in Jesus, will God bring with him.15 For this say we unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which live, and are remaining in the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which sleep.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then shall we which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.18 Wherefore, comfort yourselves one another with these words.

2 Thess:2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,2 That ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as it were from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand.3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that [h]that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.4 Which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doth sit as God in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

1 Corinthians 15:51

Behold, I show you a secret thing, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall blow, and the dead shall be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76250665

Nothing in these verses say this happens before the Tribulation.

But...Matthew 24 tells us immediate after the Tribulation and discusses the Rapture.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
United States
06/24/2018 08:17 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
You have no Biblical proof for a Pre--Trib Rapture. None.

It cannot be valid doctrine without Biblical proof.

And no Early Church Father believed in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

But they did believe after the Tribulation in a Rapture.

Why don't you?

In fact, there was no significant Pre-TribRature beliefs until the 18th century.