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Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel

 
Achduke7

User ID: 15477440
United States
08/09/2018 08:59 PM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
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Because you have not shown any facts. So were all the apostles going around and breathing on each other?

Christ was the only one who breathed on the apostles and they did not even receive the Holy Spirit at that time. The rest of the apostles would lay hands on new disciples.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Jesus commanded that they receive the Holy Spirit but did it happen at that exact moment?

Here is when they received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Even Paul laid hands on people when they were baptized.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul performed the same exact method when he baptized people by laying of hands and then they received the Holy Spirit.
 Quoting: Achduke7


The fact is you ignore several scriptures, to your own detriment and to others' detriment as well.

The fact remains that the disciples received the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them per John 20. Quoting Acts 2 does not change this.

Acts 2 shows when the disciples were FILLED with the Holy Spirit, not when they received it the first time.

Your repeated mistake of applying Acts 2 to your unfounded arguments shows you are not rightly dividing.

You say Jesus' ministry was not just to Israel per Matthew 15:24... Because you are not rightly dividing. Jesus' ministry was solely to Israel.

Not everything in scripture applies to everyone at the same time. There are two covenants.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


Also it does not say they received the Holy Spirit at this time.
 Quoting: Achduke7


False

Jesus said in John 20:22 "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".

No need for us to continue in circles, you have established your position on this and it benefits nobody to go further.

All that matters is people know the gospel of our salvation for today. Will you help spread it?

1 Peter 1:18-19
Romans 3:24-25
1 Corinthians 15:1-4

God bless
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


Don't believe me, believe Christ just Read Acts 1:5 and you will see that Christ promised them the baptism of the Holy Spirit several days after his ascension which then happens at acts 2.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/09/2018 09:16 PM
Achduke
Expose ALL Shills

User ID: 75409848
United States
08/10/2018 12:39 AM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
...


The fact is you ignore several scriptures, to your own detriment and to others' detriment as well.

The fact remains that the disciples received the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them per John 20. Quoting Acts 2 does not change this.

Acts 2 shows when the disciples were FILLED with the Holy Spirit, not when they received it the first time.

Your repeated mistake of applying Acts 2 to your unfounded arguments shows you are not rightly dividing.

You say Jesus' ministry was not just to Israel per Matthew 15:24... Because you are not rightly dividing. Jesus' ministry was solely to Israel.

Not everything in scripture applies to everyone at the same time. There are two covenants.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


Also it does not say they received the Holy Spirit at this time.
 Quoting: Achduke7


False

Jesus said in John 20:22 "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".

No need for us to continue in circles, you have established your position on this and it benefits nobody to go further.

All that matters is people know the gospel of our salvation for today. Will you help spread it?

1 Peter 1:18-19
Romans 3:24-25
1 Corinthians 15:1-4

God bless
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


Don't believe me, believe Christ just Read Acts 1:5 and you will see that Christ promised them the baptism of the Holy Spirit several days after his ascension which then happens at acts 2.
 Quoting: Achduke7


22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


Apparently you deny this happened. Why should we progress to Acts when you do not understand the book preceding it?
Achduke7

User ID: 15477440
United States
08/10/2018 01:37 AM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
...


Also it does not say they received the Holy Spirit at this time.
 Quoting: Achduke7


False

Jesus said in John 20:22 "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".

No need for us to continue in circles, you have established your position on this and it benefits nobody to go further.

All that matters is people know the gospel of our salvation for today. Will you help spread it?

1 Peter 1:18-19
Romans 3:24-25
1 Corinthians 15:1-4

God bless
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


Don't believe me, believe Christ just Read Acts 1:5 and you will see that Christ promised them the baptism of the Holy Spirit several days after his ascension which then happens at acts 2.
 Quoting: Achduke7


22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


Apparently you deny this happened. Why should we progress to Acts when you do not understand the book preceding it?
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


BTW,

We should be pushing the gospel and I will continue to push the one gospel.

I do not speak Greek but john sounds like future and so does acts 1 but acts 2 is present tense.


One thing to consider.

Christ died around 31 to 33 AD. When Paul wrote his letters some 20 years later Christ had already had died, was buried and had risen and ascended to the God.

When did Faith and Blood start, Did everyone have to wait 20 years for Paul to write his letters or did it start at the crucifixion of Christ?

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/10/2018 08:46 AM
Achduke
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08/10/2018 01:37 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I agree friend, let this be resolved amicably. Scripture says the gospel of faith in the blood atonement was 'revealed' to Paul, per Galatians 1:11-12. He calls it 'my gospel' at least two or three times throughout his letters.

Peter preached the death, burial, resurrection in early Acts, but a few points which were absent were 'for our sins' and 'according to the scriptures', those points are found in 1 Cor 15:3-4. In Acts two Peter was essentially giving Israel a murder indictment, telling them they killed their Messiah. When they asked him what they could do (not necessarily in order to be saved), Peter said to repent and be baptized. This was an act of repentance for killing Jesus, not an express act to obtain salvation. Later in Acts pure Gentiles were advised to simply 'believe', and believe in the name of Christ (ex. Acts 16:31). Je ws were advised to believe and be baptized or some combination of this (Acts 19:6 there was laying of hands, they were the disciples of John the Baptist). There were Samaritans (half- Je wish) in Acts who had to be baptized also if I recall correctly. There was a general transition throughout Acts from baptism to faith, Israel to Gentiles, an overall transition to Grace. Peter never said to repent and be baptized after Acts 2, and that was only to Israel to repent for killing their Messiah.

I do not want people now to think they have to be baptized or do any works in order to be saved. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone, in the blood atonement of Christ (Romans 3:25). Good works will follow as fruit of the Spirit.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Romans 3:24-25
1 Peter 1:18-19

Last Edited by Expose ALL Shills on 08/10/2018 01:37 PM
Achduke7

User ID: 69637911
United States
08/10/2018 03:07 PM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I do not want people now to think they have to be baptized or do any works in order to be saved. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone, in the blood atonement of Christ (Romans 3:25). Good works will follow as fruit of the Spirit.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Romans 3:24-25
1 Peter 1:18-19
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


I agree but do you think that the faith in the blood atonement was completed when Christ died and was resurrected or did that atonement start when Paul wrote Romans 3:25?
Achduke
Expose ALL Shills

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United States
08/10/2018 04:36 PM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I do not want people now to think they have to be baptized or do any works in order to be saved. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone, in the blood atonement of Christ (Romans 3:25). Good works will follow as fruit of the Spirit.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Romans 3:24-25
1 Peter 1:18-19
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


I agree but do you think that the faith in the blood atonement was completed when Christ died and was resurrected or did that atonement start when Paul wrote Romans 3:25?
 Quoting: Achduke7


I don't think most Gentiles understood the doctrine of the necessity of a sinless substitutionary sacrifice, and blood, in order to come to God - 'according to the scriptures'. True spiritual Israel did understand this, and was therefore told to believe in who Jesus is, the Christ and their Messiah. Ex Matthew 16:16

I think this helps explain the difference in Paul's letters (which were to Gentiles except Hebrews), and the message in the four gospels.

It's possible a few people knew their scripture and realized Jesus was the passover lamb when He died, fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies. But most did not realize this yet.
Achduke7

User ID: 15477440
United States
08/10/2018 05:27 PM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I do not want people now to think they have to be baptized or do any works in order to be saved. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone, in the blood atonement of Christ (Romans 3:25). Good works will follow as fruit of the Spirit.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Romans 3:24-25
1 Peter 1:18-19
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


I agree but do you think that the faith in the blood atonement was completed when Christ died and was resurrected or did that atonement start when Paul wrote Romans 3:25?
 Quoting: Achduke7


I don't think most Gentiles understood the doctrine of the necessity of a sinless substitutionary sacrifice, and blood, in order to come to God - 'according to the scriptures'. True spiritual Israel did understand this, and was therefore told to believe in who Jesus is, the Christ and their Messiah. Ex Matthew 16:16

I think this helps explain the difference in Paul's letters (which were to Gentiles except Hebrews), and the message in the four gospels.

It's possible a few people knew their scripture and realized Jesus was the passover lamb when He died, fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies. But most did not realize this yet.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


But do you believe atonement was available at his death or did everyone have to wait until Paul wrote a letter about it?
Achduke
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08/11/2018 02:25 AM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
I do not want people now to think they have to be baptized or do any works in order to be saved. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone, in the blood atonement of Christ (Romans 3:25). Good works will follow as fruit of the Spirit.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Romans 3:24-25
1 Peter 1:18-19
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


I agree but do you think that the faith in the blood atonement was completed when Christ died and was resurrected or did that atonement start when Paul wrote Romans 3:25?
 Quoting: Achduke7


I don't think most Gentiles understood the doctrine of the necessity of a sinless substitutionary sacrifice, and blood, in order to come to God - 'according to the scriptures'. True spiritual Israel did understand this, and was therefore told to believe in who Jesus is, the Christ and their Messiah. Ex Matthew 16:16

I think this helps explain the difference in Paul's letters (which were to Gentiles except Hebrews), and the message in the four gospels.

It's possible a few people knew their scripture and realized Jesus was the passover lamb when He died, fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies. But most did not realize this yet.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


But do you believe atonement was available at his death or did everyone have to wait until Paul wrote a letter about it?
 Quoting: Achduke7


Not sure what you are asking exactly.

Salvation (from hell) was available at His death, to people who knew what Jesus did and people who did not know of Jesus at all. Luke 12:47-48

Luke 16 tells the story of a rich man and beggar who were in hell and Abraham's bosom, respectively.

John 3:13 says "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Therefore the atoning sacrifice of Christ was necessary to reconcile us to God, so that we could dwell with Him. It was also necessary for us to receive the Holy Spirit when we believe, which cannot be lost per Ephesians 1:13.

I will gladly defer to you or others here who have more knowledge than me, I do not profess to be an expert on the Bible.
Achduke7

User ID: 69637911
United States
08/13/2018 07:05 AM

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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
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I agree but do you think that the faith in the blood atonement was completed when Christ died and was resurrected or did that atonement start when Paul wrote Romans 3:25?
 Quoting: Achduke7


I don't think most Gentiles understood the doctrine of the necessity of a sinless substitutionary sacrifice, and blood, in order to come to God - 'according to the scriptures'. True spiritual Israel did understand this, and was therefore told to believe in who Jesus is, the Christ and their Messiah. Ex Matthew 16:16

I think this helps explain the difference in Paul's letters (which were to Gentiles except Hebrews), and the message in the four gospels.

It's possible a few people knew their scripture and realized Jesus was the passover lamb when He died, fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies. But most did not realize this yet.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


But do you believe atonement was available at his death or did everyone have to wait until Paul wrote a letter about it?
 Quoting: Achduke7


Not sure what you are asking exactly.

Salvation (from hell) was available at His death, to people who knew what Jesus did and people who did not know of Jesus at all. Luke 12:47-48

Luke 16 tells the story of a rich man and beggar who were in hell and Abraham's bosom, respectively.

John 3:13 says "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Therefore the atoning sacrifice of Christ was necessary to reconcile us to God, so that we could dwell with Him. It was also necessary for us to receive the Holy Spirit when we believe, which cannot be lost per Ephesians 1:13.

I will gladly defer to you or others here who have more knowledge than me, I do not profess to be an expert on the Bible.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


So if the atonement was available at the Death of Christ and Christ taught them about his Death, Burial, resurrection and that he must die for sin why were they not saved by the same method as everyone else in 1 Corinthians and Romans?
Achduke
Expose ALL Shills

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08/14/2018 02:22 AM
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Re: Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
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I don't think most Gentiles understood the doctrine of the necessity of a sinless substitutionary sacrifice, and blood, in order to come to God - 'according to the scriptures'. True spiritual Israel did understand this, and was therefore told to believe in who Jesus is, the Christ and their Messiah. Ex Matthew 16:16

I think this helps explain the difference in Paul's letters (which were to Gentiles except Hebrews), and the message in the four gospels.

It's possible a few people knew their scripture and realized Jesus was the passover lamb when He died, fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies. But most did not realize this yet.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


But do you believe atonement was available at his death or did everyone have to wait until Paul wrote a letter about it?
 Quoting: Achduke7


Not sure what you are asking exactly.

Salvation (from hell) was available at His death, to people who knew what Jesus did and people who did not know of Jesus at all. Luke 12:47-48

Luke 16 tells the story of a rich man and beggar who were in hell and Abraham's bosom, respectively.

John 3:13 says "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Therefore the atoning sacrifice of Christ was necessary to reconcile us to God, so that we could dwell with Him. It was also necessary for us to receive the Holy Spirit when we believe, which cannot be lost per Ephesians 1:13.

I will gladly defer to you or others here who have more knowledge than me, I do not profess to be an expert on the Bible.
 Quoting: Expose ALL Shills


So if the atonement was available at the Death of Christ and Christ taught them about his Death, Burial, resurrection and that he must die for sin why were they not saved by the same method as everyone else in 1 Corinthians and Romans?
 Quoting: Achduke7


Salvation was available to those who lived before His death. That is why I brought up Luke 16, those who had not heard of Jesus Christ were not condemned.