To Understand Paul - His Letters Don't Tell Us All of What He Originally Preached - Bible Study

Many folks also claim that Paul didn't teach anything about the 10 Commandments still being vaild.

As I stated above, ALL of Paul's writings are letters to churches where he had already preached the Gospel.

Since the letters were written to address issues at the churches, we don't get to read ALL of what Paul had actually taught when he had been there originally.

He stated this to the Thessalonians, and it's easy to think that it was similar to all the other churches too.

1 Thessalonians 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

And his other letters also touched on sins that were part of the 10 Commandments

Romans 13

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 Corinthians

5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

We don't know the full extent of Paul's original teachings to the churches. His letters only point out issues he addresses with specific congregations.

He addresses sin in all of the letters.

And Jesus' commandment of "love one another" doesn't invalidate the 10 Commandments, it merely is inclusive of most of them.

By "loving one another", people are avoiding the sins that are listed separately in the 10 C's.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 11/05/2018 12:33 PM

First thing one must realize about the self acclaimed apostle Paul is that his view on religion is tainted because of his past affiliation with the Babylonian Talmud Pharisee Templars.

He may have had a legitimate experience with God but his past experience tainted his understanding.

His teaching wound up taking the early converts to Esu Immanuels teachings and turned them right back into the teachings of the False religion of the Temple cultists.The teaching of the "BLOOD SACRIFICE" which Esu Immanuel the one known to most as Jesus was very much against and He said so many times.

The Blood sacrifice was started after the Babylonian Talmud Pharisee 's took over Solomon's temple 600 years before the arrival of the one you know as Jesus.It was not supposed to be a part of the descendants of The Adam Son.

The only temple that was supposed to be built was the temple of King Solomon and no others.

All the churches and the like are an abomination to the Father all praying should be done alone not in a church with others watching, it is supposed to be a personal thing between the individual and The Father in Heaven!

Paul also followed the feasts and had disciples circumcised.

So...I guess that when Abraham sacrificed that ram, instead of killing his son doesn't count?

How about during the Passover in Egypt?

Or during the Exodus?



Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 08/04/2018 12:33 PM

Some folks like to reduce the word "repent" to mean "turn away" etc...like this website does.

[link to loveintruth.com]

They like to use Jeremiah and other prophet's usage of the word as examples.

But if you take a look at the usage of it in other places, and in context of it's usage, it's a lot more complicated.

The Hebrew word shûb (pronounced shoove) occurs 1058 times in the Old Testament.

Here's various Old Testament verses showing varying contexts.

Notice that in a couple of places that the words "grieved" or "sorrowed" could be used.

Genesis 6

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Exodus 13

17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

Exodus 32

12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Numbers 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Deuteronomy 32

36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.

Judges 2

18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

Judges 21

6 And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.

15 And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the LORD had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.

1 Samuel 15

11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

28 And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

2 Samuel 24

16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Here, "repent" is used along with "make supplication" and acknowdgement of sin.

1 Kings 8

46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;

David mentions acknowledgement and confession in the Psalms.

Psalm 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

Simply "turning away" leaves a lot of room for pridefullness and arrogance.

It also lacks any fear / love of God, nor humbleness or remorsefullness.

Finally, Jesus didn't even bother to mention it in His Lord's Prayer.

Instead, He states to "ask forgiveness".

Matthew 6

9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.

10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 11

1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

3 Give us day by day our daily bread.

4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Another look at Paul.

Some people claim that Paul's "teachings" about blasphemy actually contradict what Jesus taught.

This website is an example

[link to www.jesuswordsonly.com (secure)]

They use Paul's declaration that he was a "pardoned blasphemer".

Is this really true?

The key to understanding all of this is to understand that this was Paul's declaration.

Not God's (the Father)...nor was it from Jesus.

Jesus knew that Paul believed in the Father. Paul just didn't believe that the Father had actually sent Jesus as prophecy had predicted.

He was an easy conversion in the sense that he already believed in the Father and knew scripture / prophecy. Converting him was also important since he was the most zealous of the haters, doing the most harm to the spreading of the Good News.

His zeal would be needed in the effort to make converts in outlying areas as far as Rome, home of future persecution, but ultimately the where Christianity got an early major foothold once Constantine made Christianity "legal".

The other point is that Paul hadn't truly blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Jesus knew AND understood this, as there's no way that Paul would have been chosen IF he truly HAD done blasphemy.

And Jesus would NEVER countermand what He had said previously to the other Apostles, since everything Jesus said CAME from the Father.

John 12:49-50

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

This is a thesis about "women in the Bible", and addresses much of what Paul had written.

[link to www.freedom-ministry.com]

Quest for the Real Paul - Duration: 1:11:18


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Cool

Just do not put Paul over Jesus, should be enough for not to go astray.

Ironic that you bring that up.

I spent part of yesterday watching a few videos about Paul. I only made it about 20 minutes into each one, as the pastors were emphasizing how "Paul has the true Gospel", and how it was supposedly so much different AND better than the other Apostles, even to the point of ignoring Jesus' own words.

This is what is being taught in divinity schools these days, and over the last 30 or so years.

What is the Good News of Jesus Christ?

Since Paul of Tarsus was actually Apollonius of Tyana, it’s amazing how well the Church was able to change his epistles into elements of Christianity. They performed their hoax quite well.
Apollonius of Tyana aka Paul of Tarsus.
[link to enigmose.com (secure)]

OP,

TLS,

In your own words:

Thread: ONE Gospel - FROM God - THRU Jesus - Taught by ALL of the Apostles - NOT Just Paul - Bible Study

TLS,
In your own words:
What is the Good News of Jesus Christ?

Preach the Word plainly.

Just say it.

Why would you not just say it here in your thread if you believe Him, serve Him and follow Him?

Unless you really don't?

Unless His Gospel is really not your purpose?

I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Paul



But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Paul


For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul


But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Paul


Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul


In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Paul


For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul


That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Paul


For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

Paul


For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Paul

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

Paul

I don't have the gifts to preach.

The Holy Spirit constantly points out "topics" to study, and then shows me relevant verses.

I ran across this video and decided to check it out.

The pastor tells the congregation to NOT FOLLOW what Jesus says - but to follow Paul instead.

Video link starts at the 8:42 mark. If you use the embeded screen you will have to jump ahead.

[link to youtu.be (secure)]



Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 02/17/2019 11:06 PM

Nonsense. What did the speaker say at the 9:15 mark?

"do what Jesus did? You don't want to do that...."

Two different gopsels?

Jesus taught
-repentance
-Belief
-do the Father's Will
-the 10 Commandments, which are covered in Jesus' 2 simple commandments.

These are the same things the Apostles including Paul taught.

Did you read what I posted above? And go read...

Thread: To Understand Paul - His Letters Don't Tell Us All of What He Originally Preached - Bible Study

Thread: ONE Gospel - FROM God - THRU Jesus - Taught by ALL of the Apostles - NOT Just Paul - Bible Study

IF you folks actually read the last half of Acts you will see that Paul went into Hebrew synagogues in his travels. Even in ROME.

Verses to prove my point about synagogues.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Damascus Acts 9:20
Salamis Acts 13:5
Antioch Acts 13:14
Iconium Acts 14:1
Thessalonica Acts 17:1
Berea Acts 17:10
Athens Acts 17:16
Corinth Acts 18:4
Ephesus Acts 18:19

Such as?

Some points to consider.

1. Paul supposely spent the first 3 years in Arabia after his conversion, which was also before he went to Jerusalem the first time. He also supposedly spent 9 years in Tarsus. Why? Is it possible that he was struggling to understand the things that Jesus was telling him, which, by the way, were not "face to face" like Jesus had taught the other Apostles?

2. As far as we know, Paul wasn't present for any of Jesus' verbal teachings to the Apostles while He was alive. AND we don't know just how much the Apostles had told Paul. The ramifications of this are huge.

3. The last few chapters of Acts focus more on where Paul went and what happened than what he was actually teaching on those trips. We don't know exactly what Paul taught, but the fact that he had already been to Jerusalem and spoke with the others before his journeys, and their acceptance of him, is telling.

4. All of Paul's letters were to congregations that he had already established, and therefore each one is specific to problems within each of those congregations. The letters weren't addressed to "all the churches" as uniform teachings. Trying to construct a "theological base" from them is a daunting task which many experts can even disagree on.

5. Paul's letters were addressed to congregations that had relatively large percentage of Gentiles. This makes it difficult to compare what he taught as compared to what the other Apostles taught, which we also don't have much of a record of. The Gentile "base" of those groups would also cause Pauls' "approach" (and possibly even Jesus' instructions concerning such) to be different. A great example of this is Paul's sermon in Athens about the "unknown God" in Acts 17.

6. John's and Peter's letters were also to previously established "churches". Their not exactly the same as Paul's for good reason, yet there are similarities.

7. Paul didn't have the "luxury" like we do of reading the 4 Gospels before he went preaching. And the Gospels don't tell us WHAT & HOW the Apostles taught, they focus on what Jesus taught others and them. Chances are quite good that Paul wrote his letters before the Gospels, as Peter's letter states this...

2 Peter 3

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Lastly, Paul's journeys to "plant churches" always started at Jewish synagogues that were in large Gentile populations. He dealt with not only radical Jews who refused the Gospel, but also with radical pagans who refused to give up their idolatrous sinful ways.

What I see in Paul's letters as far as teachings...

A. Repentance for remission of sin.
B. Jesus was the Son of God.
C. Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected.
D. Belief of those things, and leading a sinless life, would end up in Salvation.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 02/18/2019 01:44 PM

Thank you, TLS.

I cannot see that you have torn any pages out of the bible and that you are performing a worthwhile service.

Hallelujah!

Some folks will claim that Paul isn't a "real" / true Apostle.

Let's look at the facts.

***Jesus chose 12

***Judas was lost...leaving 11

***Paul was CHOSEN by Jesus...making 12 hand-picked by Jesus

***Matthias was NOT chosen by Jesus

***Jesus NEVER said anything about Matthias.

***There's NO RECORD of Matthias OTHER than what the 11 did by chosing him.

Saul / Paul was chosen by Jesus to be the replacement for Judas as the 12th apostle. One each for the 12 tribes. Mathias had been chosen by the 11, not by Jesus Himself.

Why is that significant? See this...

Revelation 21

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

There in Revelation, the 12 Apostles are specifically singled out for a future reason.

He was an easy conversion in the sense that he already believed in the Father and knew scripture / prophecy. Converting him was also important since he was the most zealous of the haters, doing the most harm to the spreading of the Good News.

His zeal would be needed in the effort to make converts in Rome, home of future persecution, but ultimately the where Christianity got an early major foothold once Constantine was converted.

It's ironic that Paul was the only one converted after Jesus' resurrection, but yet there are more of his writings in the New Testament than by any of the others.

2 tim 2:15 learn to rightly divide.

LOL, Jesus was already dead and resurrected when Paul had his chat with ghost Jesus on the way to Demascus. A chat that he alone was part of, zero witnesses can verify, and all of Pauls claims come from that one supposed meeting.

Sure, makes perfect sense. After sacrificing himself for all of human sin, Jesus decided to pick someone he had never met, someone he knew to be trained in the Talmud by one of the the foremost Jewish scholars of the time (the Talmud being the thing that Jesus railed against constantly), and told him (and only him) "JK about all that stuff I said while in mortal form, LOL, you're now the chosen prophet, use my name and start a whole new religion that places you as the most important disciple, and kind of leading the whole thing. When people rebuke you because you sound like a crazy person, just say that you're speaking for me, and therefore God."

NO... We need to "rightly divide the word of truth" as we are told in 2Timothy.

Jesus came to establish the priesthood and bring in the kingdom ... his message was to the priesthood only and to be in the priesthood you had to be a PURE Israelite, they rejected the priesthood...

"These twelve did Jesus send forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the cities of the Samaritans enter ye not:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

"But he answered, and said, I am not sent, but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

"Now I say, that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision, for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers."

I don't see ANY message in there for the gentiles...do you?... Why do you NOT believe Jesus's own words?

And that means to take Paul's "gospel" over what Jesus taught?

NONSENSE.

Paul taught the SAME gospel as the other Apostles. This was proven when Barnabas took Paul to Jerusalem.

Jesus denied NO ONE.

The "crumbs" / Caananite woman.
The centurion.
The Samaritans.

"The Great Commission" Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations...

-----------------------------
And the Old Testament is filled with verses about gentiles becoming Believers.

Isaiah 2 42 49 54 60 61 62 66

"a light to the Gentiles"

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles and in every place incense shall be offered
unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Psalms 148

11 Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:
12 Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:
13 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.

Isaiah 52

6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold,
it is I.

10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Isaiah 42

1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God the LORD , he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

They REJECTED the priesthood ... and Jesus went to Paul with a completely different message... the gospel of Grace ... you are not rightly dividing the word of truth...