When censorship due to personal bias stands in the way of relevant discussion and dialogue. A matter of integrity in religious discourse.

I don't believe you are here in the spirit that this thread was meant to convey. There is a difference between discussion for enlightenment and argument for malicious destraction.

It seems you are here in the spirit of the later.

Adding your own opinion to my quote wasn't necessary. You could have just said it in your own.

For answer, I will post scripture, but it won't necessarily be to baited questions, be they from you or others. Instead it will be in light of the thread topic which you seem to have shown an apparent prejudice against.

Finally, reading a bible from cover to cover doesn't mean you comprehend what it says. Nor does it equate you to having intimate knowledge on the subject. That isn't how it works, and if you truly are endeavoring to be a "Christian" you would know this, because scripture makes it evident.

Do you consider yourself a "Christian" as defined in previous posts? If not, why are you here? If so, why are you trying to undermine the purpose of this thread?

Here is some scripture to dwell on if you so choose. I know I said I would stay on thread topic, but I feel the response I have given is enough to satisfactorily answer your questions even if you don't and eve if it doesn't wholy fit the topic at hand. I believe quite a bit of the following scripture it is relevant to you in this thread and in this regard. That is my un-revised opinion.

As for you and other's getting into it in the thread, that is between you and them, but I when people intentionally mess with other people's words and change them, that isn't ok. Please be respectful and stay on topic. Thanks.

Proverbs 16
1The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

2All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

3Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

5Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

6By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

7When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

8Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.

9A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

10A divine sentence is in the lips of the king: his mouth transgresseth not in judgment.

11A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work.

12It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.

13Righteous lips are the delight of kings; and they love him that speaketh right.

14The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it.

15In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.

16How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

17The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.

18Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

19Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

20He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the LORD, happy is he.

21The wise in heart shall be called prudent: and the sweetness of the lips increaseth learning.

22Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

23The heart of the wise teacheth his mouth, and addeth learning to his lips.

24Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.

25There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

26He that laboureth laboureth for himself; for his mouth craveth it of him.

27An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire.

28A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.

29A violent man enticeth his neighbour, and leadeth him into the way that is not good.

30He shutteth his eyes to devise froward things: moving his lips he bringeth evil to pass.


31The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness.

32He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.

33The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Romans 13 ►
King James Bible
1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Saw some comments about love. Part of showing love is not always being "nice." Love says the truth, even if it hurts. Even Jesus was not always "nice." Was He showing love to those He rebuked? Yes, He wanted them to repent. God does not wish that "any should perish." He even rebuked His own when it was called for.

So, this idea of "loving" is great but not if it is at the expense of truth. To withhold the truth, so one is "liked" is not love. It's not showing love at all. It's being scared to say the truth for one's own sake so that people will not disapprove. That is selfishness.

When saying the truth it is not to be said for personal gain nor in a way that is disrespectful. Truth must sometimes be told in firmness. Firmness is not unkindness. It's actually loving to tell the truth as long as it is real truth and meant to be helpful to a person.

I find it interesting that some people cherry pick the bible. I can't say I share your view on it not being Infallible Word of God, but That is your prerogative to believe as you see fit.

I tend to take it all in as a whole, but my understanding differs somewhat, as everyone's will be from one person to another.

My understanding is that man is the one that is fallible. I is our vanity and ego that interferes with our understanding of truth.

It is that same ego that seeks to silence those who we don't tend to agree with.

Thanks for sharing and yes......The term "Christian" is a very broad and generic word used to lump all those who pick up a bible and claim to have the faith of Jesus. However, the subsets of believers under that term are inconsistent and varied from each other, making huge distinctions.

To atheists, pagans and agnostics, we are all the same, but we all know better. We know that simply isn't true. Some people who consider themselves "Christian", are not, and some who have no formal religious "affiliation" may actually be moreso than those who profess to be and who do!

Good points, as long as the truth being told isn't opinion and then too, that neither truth nor opinion are discounted, removed or hidden due to prejudice or bias. I.E. The more choices one has, the better informed one might become, rejecting the bad and keeping the good.

Let's just say, everyone is entitled to an opinion. If I am entitled to yours, then most certainly, in the same spirit, you are equally entitled to my own.

OP, one can not truthfully say that the Bible can be infallible when so many absolute contradictions or stunning inconsistencies exist within it. Contradictory statements can both be wrong, but they can't both be true.

A link containing 100+ contradictions/inconsistencies for your perusal:
[link to infidels.org (secure)]

Last Edited by MarPep on 08/14/2018 10:51 PM

....................

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 08/15/2018 08:40 PM

Yet you'll come to my topic elsewhere, and make a post concerning this CURRENT topic and complain when I delete it.

You're right. Posting in two threads at same time, screwed up.
[link to infidels.org (secure)]

Last Edited by MarPep on 08/14/2018 10:53 PM

Absolutely true. It works both ways in a mature discussion. One way discussions will not get a person very far in life nor in any of their relationships at work or home. Or, even here on the internet.

This is called talking. We are doing that now.

Yes, it is good to have information of various types, I agree. And, a person is free to ignore that which they may find to be patently ridiculous and/or dismiss it immediately. Deleting it, however, is quite another thing all together. Yep.

It's simple. It is a matter of faith. You either believe what scripture says, or you don't.

I have to have faith that God knows what He directs men to do and that they fulfill His purpose in this regard according to His will. I have posted scripture to this regard in previous posts in this thread.

THAT IS MY FAITH. IT MAY NOT BE YOUR OWN.

Thanks for the scripture and the link. I will consider reading it at my leisure.

ahh....ic....lol

I was was a bit confused there for a second.

If you go up to your original post...look for the word "Edit" underneath your Avatar



Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 08/14/2018 11:19 PM

OP, so you have "faith" that two absolute contradictory statements can both be true at the same time?? That's not what most adults would call such a "belief". At least one such statement must be false. If even one such contradiction exists, then "infallibility" is a man-made myth, at least insofar as the definition of the word.

Yes, thanks, I've done that, but it won't change it in your reply which copied my original mistake. You can change it in your reply, but then your reply would not seem to make sense.

Last Edited by MarPep on 08/14/2018 11:19 PM

Lots of folks try to take one SINGLE verse from one book or chapter and compare it to ANOTHER single verse from somewhere else and call them contradictory.

The vast majority of times, you have to read the "surrounding" verses to determine the "context" of the verses being compared.

Although that is sometimes true, I don't think it can apply to many of the contradictions I've quoted or linked.

Last Edited by MarPep on 08/14/2018 11:22 PM

I changed my reply to prevent folks being misled.

I'll take a look at them tomorrow

Here's the 2nd one from the website.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

Genesis 2 is a rehash yet more detailed version of Gen 1...but not "in sequence"

That is part of the reason I created this thread, to call attention to hypocrisy. (we all do it).

I don't want to point fingers at individuals, so wont', not to mention, it is against the site TOS, I simply wish to highlight the manner in which we are supposed to relate to one another as "Christians".

Sometimes it is difficult for us to gauge and regulate our own action or reaction to others in a proper manner. It is easy to unleash the tongue in a not so "Christian" manner.



Proverbs 10
19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.

Ephesians 4:29
29 Let no* corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I have faith that God is Infallible and that the bible we have today is a result of His determination on the matter.

Scripture says that God directs the paths of men. Scripture tells us that God establishes kings and rulers.

My faith tells me that the bible as we know it, is the perfect will of God. Were it not so, it would not be as it is.

And Jesus tells us in John 14:17 that the Spirit of God is the spirit of Truth. Truth can not be contradictory to itself.

If you want to say that God is infallible and the bible is his will, contradictions and all, then that is a different thing than saying the bible itself is infallible.

Last Edited by MarPep on 08/14/2018 11:52 PM

'It is easy to unleash the tongue in a not so "Christian" manner.'

I do not agree with that at all. ^^

It is not 'easy to do' if you have control of your tongue.

What is a 'Christian' manner? Maybe not the same to everybody, as it seems.

Jesus said to love as He loved.

Jesus did not go about on earth throwing flower petals in the air and sitting around with the disciples playing a harp and talking about universal love and light so as not to hurt anyone's "feelings." Jesus is HONEST, humble, firm, decisive, purposed, honorable, etc. He is also very loving, kind and tender. He is all things.

So, are we to go about being some sort of flower child spreading "love and light?" If we are to examine Jesus, then there we will find exactly how we are to love others. It's not me saying it that makes it true. It's right there in His words and life.

Meekness is not weakness. Biblical meekness is strength under control. Lowly means not haughty in spirit. Jesus was anything but a cowering pushover afraid to speak truth to power so people would "like" Him.

There is a fine line between speaking to others in edification and speaking with arrogance and superiority.

This is why studying the life of Christ is THE example of exactly where that line is to be in our lives. It is a challenge to love as He loved because you have to be willing to be hated by some for speaking the truth of Christ.

In the spirit of the thread, the top bold is part of a post I made, but the following scripture gave it context.

When you separated them, you lost the intent of the statement I wished to convey. They were meant to be paired together.



Reading within the spirit it was posted, do you still disagree?

Ephesians 4:29
29 Let no* corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I SO APPRECIATE this thread...and I will put it in my
personal pins so that I can refer to the scriptures you
have taken the time to look up and post for us. Really
well done and a lovely change from many ANGRY threads on
GLP lately.

I was in a thread yesterday where someone just needed to
attack another member...like kicking their dog. I guess
the dog was out of town...so I was IT. I'm not giving names
as that isn't the point...WHAT IS THE POINT is your beautiful
scriptures here and having us stop and think about these
things.

It got so intense that one of the admind was notified and
I was accused of nefarious actions on GLP on the public
thread, which really embarrassed me. As it was, it was
a misunderstanding with having 2 accounts and using green
karma the wrong way (which I did...but in ignorance, not
intending to abuse the TOS rules--I haven't seen any rules
for having 2 accounts, by the way!) The LONG AND SHORT OF IT
was that NOBODY involved was behaving as Christians (tho
I don't know if anyone but me involved in this little
"cat fight" were accountable Christians in their own minds.)

I regret what I posted and I regret very much that I became
so angry--being accused of something I don't believe I have
done has happened before in my life...but I take it very
personally when I am in a group like this and I've been
a solid contributor of many years, as you mention you have
been. And you are right...I'm really blowing it when I get
angry like that as a Christian.

I went ahead and canceled my accounts...but I guess they
haven't caught up with the paperwork to delete me yet,
since here I am reporting to you what happened. I've PM'd
the admin to let me change my mind...but not sure how it
will all work out.

If I had read this thread BEFORE the scuffle today, I am
sure I would have taken it to heart and NOT reacted the
way that I did.

Thanks for your insight. It is very helpful. And If I am
no longer a member, I hope to "lurk" and read more of
your stuff. Blessings to one and all.


TheOracle'sCookie

Last Edited by TheOracle'sCookie on 08/15/2018 12:33 AM

I take words to mean what they say. I do not see how the Bible verse changes the meaning of your sentence. The sentence is quite clear to me. Crystal.

As for Ephesians 4:29, I see nothing there that would suggest that it is 'easy to unleash the tongue.' That verse says don't. These are 2 different matters, as I see it.

The sentence you spoke and the verse are almost contradictory if you think about it.

If you believe and live the verse then how can it be "easy" to unleash?

Wow!

Thanks for sharing that!

You are very kind in your assessment of this thread, and I am truly sorry for the unfortunate issues you describe.

You have been a member here for awhile now. A lot of people find interest in your content.

For the sake of the community, let's hope those transgressions don't find you displaced as a member.

I have said some very hurtful things to people in my life and then, immediately regretted them, because they cut just like a knife to the people I said them too. Witnessing the reaction didn't do good for my soul, it made me feel worse than If I had never said anything at all.

James 3:1-12 King James Version (KJV)
3 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.

4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.