Russia-Ukraine UPDATE:Russia threatens Ukraine any attack on DPR/Pro Rus forces will lead to end of Ukraine's existence as a sovereign nation

iveuamap
‏Verified account @Liveuamap

Putin signed an order to impose sanctions against Ukraine [link to liveuamap.com (secure)] … via @ru_rbc #Ukraine
5:48 AM - 22 Oct 2018

Liveuamap
‏Verified account @Liveuamap

Russian PM Medvedev: sanctions against Ukraine will hit hundreds of persons and entities, including famous people [link to liveuamap.com (secure)] …

video at link

5:54 AM - 23 Oct 2018

Michael MacKay
‏ @mhmck

Russia attacked Ukraine 12 times yesterday. Keeping the Minsk Agreement ceasefire one-sidedly, Ukrainian defenders responded with return fire to only half the Russian attacks. Ukrainian military intelligence reports 3 Russian soldiers were killed, 2 wounded. /via @OOCUkraine
10:13 PM - 22 Oct 2018

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You are definitely anti-Russian in your slant. Why doesn't Ukraine just back the fuck out of the Donbass and leave them the fuck alone? Result? Nobody hurt, nobody killed. New Russia isn't attacking Ukraine. It is Ukraine attacking Donbass. Donbass isn't going back to Ukraine and Ukraine needs to get over it.
Neither is Crimea.
None of this would be happening except that Team Obama helped overthrow the duly elected government of Yanukovych. yulia Tymoshenko talking about nuking the russian speakers in the east certainly helped set up this war. I think the Ukrainians in Western Ukraine will pay dearly for this continued war against Russian speakers. it's all sad. What happened to the March on Kiev by war despising Ukrainians from the West?

Last Edited by Bennder on 10/23/2018 11:44 AM

If my posts have an anti-Russian slant it's not intentional. I view posts on twitter that come across my feed and post tweets I find interesting, you're welcome to post tweets with opposite viewpoints. I would welcome an open and honest discussion based on facts.

One fact we could discuss is where the "Donbass seperatist militia" is getting their hardware and ammo from... because, if they only used their stockpiles and/or produced their own - they would have ran out of ammo a long time ago and there would be peace.

That being said...

Looking from a purely Ukrainian point of view - why should Ukraine back out of it's own territory?
New Russia? I take it you mean Novorosyia... Seperatism is quite an interesting concept that's been tried in the US a while ago and that one also ended in bloodshed.

As far as Team Obama issue - we are in complete agreement, US should have stayed the hell out of Ukrainian politics. Some Ukrainians would disagree with my sentiment (and that includes my wife :lol1:) and are happy to see US involvement. They are under a belief that Russia has been influencing their politics since forever and a counter balance is a welcome sight.

I've said before that this war has nothing to do with Russian speakers or Ukrainians living in the western part of Ukraine. Your point of view is skewed by what you see and hear from MSM or RT news feeds (which I watch myself).

War despising Ukrainians in the west have no funds to afford a march to Kyiv, any organized march or protest we see on msm is funded by an external source - and that includes any extreme right wing protests in Lviv that RT likes to show. "Right Sector" must have some incredible funding...

This whole situation is FUBAR... Cui bono?

The conflict between Ukrainian speakers and Russian speakers have been brewing for 100 years. After the breakup of the USSR, Ukraine drug out the old Ukrainian language and people were encouraged to use it instead of their antagonists language, Russian. Overthrowing the government brought this into play. When Yunokovitch was overthrown, the legitimate government was overthrown and it was every man for himself. Chocolate boy, Peroshenko, grabbed the most power of the bulk of the former Ukraine and tries to assume the crown of Rightful Ruler. Eastern Ukraine naturally aligned with Russia and wanted no part of the (western leaning) "New" Ukraine. They had as much right to Donbass, the land they lived on, as did Peroshenko to rule them. Crimea was a different case, but when the govt was overthrown, it was all up for grabs.
There is TOO much water under the bridge now, the people of Donbass have suffered too much to ever become part of Ukraine again. Ukraine, and they know this, will have to kill virtually every Russian speaker in Donbass to govern that land again.
Ukraine gets their arms from the US, Donbass from Russia, no doubt. So what?
Are you biased? All you seem to post is nice Ukraine did this, and those Russian bastards did that. Maybe it is where you are getting your news.
I personally don't fault Russia for any of this. The US would do the same if we had a bunch of expats living across the border in Mexico and Mexico began attacking them.
Crimea for 200 years belonged to Russia, it appeared on the table when Ukraine was overthrow and Putin slapped his hand on it. They voted and were accepted back into the Russian Federation. I don't think that Russia wants Donbass.
Further, we nearly had a war with Russia in 1961 or 2 when Kruvschev sent missiles to Cuba. Yet, here we are, on Russia's doorstep, circling them with missiles. I lived through this, and it was a big deal. We thought that Nuclear war was was eminent. We'd been getting those Duck & Cover drills at school. (don't look at the bright flash!) Who is the bad guy here?
Why does Trump continue the policies of Obama, Soros, Clinton in Ukraine? I haven't the slightest idea. It's sad that he does. He needs to fire all Neocons.
The only hope for Ukraine is to just stop fighting. Maybe Donbass can be reunited with Ukraine in 50 or 60 years after the current people are dead.

" Your point of view is skewed by what you see and hear from MSM or RT news feeds (which I watch myself)."

I read/view neither. My POV is the result of 20 years of interest in Ukraine and 2 visits there, talking to the people that I met. We all have our POV, and this is mine. Certainly the MSM (neocon) view is that Ukraine and Peroshenko are legit and it's those damn Russians fucking this up. I cannot view RT and not familiar with what they say .

Article/interview posted intentionally at full length, with credit provided:

Counting the Dead in Europe’s Forgotten War
The head of the OSCE’s observer mission in Ukraine describes the challenges and frustrations of monitoring the war.
By Amy Mackinnon | October 25, 2018, 10:50 AM



Since the conflict began between Ukraine and Russian-backed rebels more than four years ago, Alexander Hug has had a front seat to Europe’s forgotten war. In a conflict steeped in fake news and propaganda, Hug has led the only independent international monitoring mission of the war as the principal deputy chief monitor of the Special Monitoring Mission in Ukraine for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). The civilian monitoring mission has some 700 observers on the ground in Ukraine. Each week, the observers document thousands of violations of the Minsk cease-fire agreements that were brokered in a bid to end the war.

During a recent trip to New York City, Hug sat down with Foreign Policy. He described the challenges of his job in Ukraine and the frustrations of witnessing a conflict that could be resolved quickly if only the two sides were willing.

Foreign Policy: You say you have been a monitor and not a judge in the conflict. How challenging has that been for you?

Alexander Hug: It’s more of an emotional difficulty. There is an expectation on us on the ground, especially from the noninvolved civilian Ukrainians on both sides of the contact line [front line]. There is no other international organization there. They see our monitors coming into town with their notebooks or cameras or glasses to take note of the explosion, note the damage, count the dead, take record of the misery they see, and then they leave and it all continues.

And, of course, they want to know who is guilty. This is a normal human question.

The absence of accountability is a major problem. In other conflicts, you have a military commission or joint military commission where everyone involved is trying to then investigate and inquire into a violation of the peace accord. That doesn’t exist here. This year alone, we have triangulated evidence of probably 190 civilian casualties and over 200,000 cease-fire violations.

FP: What’s the OSCE’s official stance on Russia’s involvement in Eastern Ukraine?

AH: If the question is what we have seen on the ground, we would not see direct evidence. But we have seen convoys leaving and entering Ukraine on dirt roads in the middle of the night, in areas where there is no official crossing. In one border area, we’ve also made this public, including some footage we have put out. We have seen specific types of weapons that we have described in detail, including electronic warfare equipment. We have spoken to prisoners taken by the Ukrainian forces who claim to be members of the Russian armed forces fighting on rotation in Ukraine. We have seen men with the insignia of the Russian Federation, but you can buy this jacket anywhere. We have also seen the insignia of Germany, Spain, and others—but also of the Russians.

FP: Are mines being laid by both sides?

AH: Yes, even new ones. It’s not just that this is old stuff that we’re seeing here. You see it in our reports. We even describe very clearly that they’re new and not seen before, so it’s clearly trackable where these new developments are.

FP: How easy will they be to remove? Are people on both sides keeping good records of where these mines are? Or are we going to have a situation years down the line when, even after the conflict has finished, there is still going to be live mine fields?

AH: Laying mines in the situational conflict is not like building a road, so they’ve likely been ad hoc. That’s one thing that makes it very difficult to track despite the fact that they have obligations to keep maps. But the reality is if you have to do this under fire, very rapidly, it’s likely there are cases where no records or very bad records were kept. And the weather. Even if there are maps, the melting water moves mines quite a bit.

FP: What has been your biggest frustration?

AH: A major frustration is that we know, I know, and our readers know that this conflict can end, the military technical part of it can end within one hour when decision-makers both take that political decision. And we have demonstrated it. In the Minsk agreements, the parties agreed to a cease-fire on the first day of the school year, which in this part of the world is Sept. 1. What happened just overnight was cease-fire violations dropped to just a few dozen. And it was low for quite a few days only to go back up again and now we’re in the thousands. But this shows clearly that when they take a decision—

FP: That they can when they want to.

AH: It’s no problem. And it’s not just a small area—it’s a 500-kilometer-long front line. That shows that there is absolute 100 percent control on both sides of this contact line, of every little position. And that it doesn’t stop irreversibly is very frustrating. Because we know it’s possible.

I have seen other conflicts where you have an undercurrent group dynamic, ethnic, religious. You don’t have this here. You don’t need to think about reconciliation from village to village. It’s pure political decisions that are required. Up to 40,000 Ukrainians cross this contact line every day. You have to go far and wide to see another conflict where you have civilians crossing what is in essence the front line so frequently.

FP: So you think it’s very solvable in terms of the animosities between people?

AH: Well, four and a half years of violence will require compromises. It will require that justice has been done for those who have lost their loved ones and had their property destroyed and taken. But I don’t think it’s yet at the stage where you have one group against the other group. That may well change if this goes far too long.

Look at a kid who lives in Donetsk or Avdiivka across the line. If the kid was, say, 5 or so in 2014, the kid is now 10. He will not recall anything else but conflict of his short life. And his head is full of propaganda. He doesn’t know what the situation was before the conflict here. Add another five years of the same, if this goes on longer, and that kid will be 15, and you will have a formed adult more or less who will have no recollection of what is was like before. And then you will have a generational problem. That should be prevented.

FP: What has been the lowest point for you?

AH: Every civilian who gets killed or injured. And in particular kids. It is very difficult to take because I know this is unnecessary and could stop. They’re not the ones who take up arms and have developed hate against the other side. Civilians always tell me, on either side of the line, “This is not our conflict. We don’t understand why it is continuing.” And all they want is that it ends. That clearly shows me that it’s not their war or their conflict.

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Today's actions prove my original post was on the money...

Good thread op

Thanks

for following

The possibility of Russia invading Ukraine grows steadily:

etyana
‏ @TetySt
3:54 AM - 27 Nov 2018

500 attack planes, 340 combat helicopters, and 25 battalion-tactical groups were added to already large amount of Ru army along UA borders, difference with previous forces is that these are combat-ready with experience in Syria.

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Petri Mäkelä
‏ @pmakela1

Petri Mäkelä Retweeted Tetyana

This has been a slow buildup.

It is noticeable that Russian social media is not showing any troop movements. Also imagery from the conscripts and kontraktniks has dried up in the past 7 days.
Control has been tightened considerably for the first time in past five years.

3:57 AM - 27 Nov 2018

Pamela Falk
‏Verified account @PamelaFalk

Kremlin warns of flare-up of hostilities in eastern Ukraine
5:21 AM - 27 Nov 2018

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e Intel Crab
‏ @IntelCrab

The Intel Crab Retweeted

Ukraine has recommended fishermen in the #AzovSea to remain in their ports.

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4:36 AM - 27 Nov 2018

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Ivan Buben
‏ @BubenIvan

Translated from Russian by Microsoft

In the streets of Moscow, 9 out of 10 people say that Ukraine attacked Russia because it is a country controlled by the United States. But as the last knot on the incident with the President of the United States is torn by the president of their independent country. There's not even sawdust in their heads, but a mammoth crap.

5:52 PM - 26 Nov 2018

Steven L. Hall
‏ @StevenLHall1

The timing of the Russian attack on Ukrainian vessels in the Kerch Strait is no coincidence. Putin has divided the West, and now is his opportunity to act. Watch for more.
4:50 PM - 26 Nov 2018

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ELINT News
‏ @ELINTNews

#UPDATE: As stated earlier the Russian Armed Forces Southern Military District (SMD) has coincidentally just ordered a ‘full readiness check’. This is the district which runs along the borders with Ukraine. Under this cover Russia may move strategic equipment in the region.
3:20 PM - 27 Nov 2018

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:strobe:

The Intel Crab
‏ @IntelCrab

A thread I've assembled from numerous VK contacts of mine on the countermeasures being undertaken by #Ukraine in each region currently under martial law...
2:24 PM - 27 Nov 2018

See list of preparations at link:

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CivMilAir
✈
‏ @CivMilAir

Poroshenko: Pompeo pledged military assistance to Ukraine - CNN

"a court in Russian-controlled Crimea ordered that 12 of the Ukrainian sailors captured during clashes with Russian forces on Sunday be detained for two months"

#Ukraine #Crimea #Russia
3:11 PM - 27 Nov 2018

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orseFires Collectif
‏ @GorseFires

GorseFires Collectif Retweeted Petro Poroshenko

"I have intelligence data and satellite imagery. These are photos of a Russian military base located 18km from our border. Sept 17, 24. These are all tanks. This is October. The number of tanks in the bases, which are located along our border, has tripled"


10:15 AM - 27 Nov 2018

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AFP news agency
‏Verified account @AFP

#BREAKING Trump says could cancel Putin meet due to Ukraine attack
2:43 PM - 27 Nov 2018

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Strategic Sentinel
‏Verified account @StratSentinel

President #Trump says he may cancel meeting with #Putin over attack on #Ukraine
2:48 PM - 27 Nov 2018

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I post about Global Hawk surveillance of Ukraine all the time.


Just yesterday in fact.

Great! Please feel free to post any relevant info in this thread.

Last Global Hawk location was in the MED today.


I imagine we will be sending our eye in the sky to Ukraine again soo.

ELINT News
‏ @ELINTNews

#UPDATE: General Staff of Ukraine to summon reservists of ‘1st turn’ for military training. Includes all Ukrainian males under 40 years old with military skills - Via @UKRINFORM
7:50 AM - 28 Nov 2018

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Christopher Miller
‏Verified account @ChristopherJM

"There have been no telephone contacts between the presidents," says Putin's spokesman. Russian state media says Poroshenko asked for a phone conversation with Putin but didn't get a reply.
7:55 AM - 28 Nov 2018

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Michael MacKay
‏ @mhmck

Ukraine has invited its NATO partners to make naval port visits to Mariupol. Accepting this would be a simple, peaceful and effective way to curb Russian aggression in the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait. Sail a ship to Mariupol … stop Putin.
3:53 PM - 27 Nov 2018

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max seddon
‏Verified account @maxseddon

Putin says the Kerch Strait incident was a "provocation" organized by Ukraine ahead of presidential elections next year. He says that anti-Russian rhetoric in Ukraine is "political foam" and expects Ukrainians to show they are "brothers" with Russia in future elections
3:59 AM - 28 Nov 2018

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Aki Heikkinen
‏ @akihheikkinen

Aki Heikkinen Retweeted max seddon

.... and surprisingly Putin's chosen narrative is exactly the same that many pundits were screaming. Gee, who could have fed it to them?

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