Give me an example of genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome?

Which involves mutations. Mutations can delete, insert, duplicate or shift base pairs.

You aren't very bright. That's okay. Everything is relative, you don't need MORE information to build a good machine. Just less bullshit and noise.

Easy peasy, stop being a fag.

Yes. How does that relate to the OP?

Mutations do not add they only subtract information.

That is a lie. I've given you what you asked for. You can stick your head in the sand and play pretend, but this doesn't change reality.

Mutations can add, delete, shift or duplicate base pairs. From WIKI: "Insertions add one or more extra nucleotides into the DNA. They are usually caused by transposable elements, or errors during replication of repeating elements."

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Thread: Scientists Have Confirmed a New DNA Structure Inside Human Cells, DNA is being upgraded Empirical fact.

Now here is a true shill. Argues for one opinion and starts a thread arguing the exact opposite in another thread. True definition of insane douche bag

None of that even matters, because in the end, it (evolution from chimps to humans) is still mathematically impossible...


According to most scientists, Chimpanzees have only been around approximately 5-12 million years.

As stated on the Wikipedia page for mutation rates, a human genome accumulates around 64 new mutations per generation. [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Chimpanzees have 96% of our DNA, which roughly equates to a difference of about 120,000,000 (120 million) base pairs. [link to www.genome.gov (secure)]


Furthermore...


Let's assume that every genetic mutation resulted in the ADDITION of UNIQUE information, instead of the randomly dispersed adding and subtracting of information as one would expect from any general entropic system (it would never be evenly dispersed, but that's beside the point anyway), it would take approximately 1,875,000 (1.8 million) generations to bring chimpanzee DNA up to that of a human's.

At an average of about 20 years per generation, it would take approximately 37,500,000 (37.5 million) years for chimpanzees to evolve into humans, and that's IF every mutation resulted in the addition of unique information, rather than the random duplicating, subtracting or adding of information.


The human genome project started in 1990, 28 years ago, and since we have been tracking the human genome, there hasn't been a single recorded case of information being added to our DNA. But lets say there were. Lets say there has been at least 10 recorded unique cases of information being added to our DNA over the last 28 years.

According to most scientists, human beings have only evolved around 200,000 years ago, which at a rate of 10 per 28 years, would result in approximately 7143 instances of information being added to the human genome since we "evolved".

Using that logic, if we were to be generous and say that information is added to the human genome at a rate of 7200 unique mutations added per 200,000 years, then there would have only been 1,350,000 (1.3 million) germ-line mutations resulting in the addition of information since chimpanzees existed (~119,000,000 short of the goal)...meaning, it would still take well over 3 billion years for chimpanzees to evolve into humans (the earth is supposedly only 4.5 billion years old, according to scientists), and that's at a rate of addition that is probably astronomically higher than what is currently, yet theoretically asserted.


Since it is believed that the universe is only about 13.8 billion years old, and we can probably assume there have been much fewer than 10 cases where information was actually added to the human genome since we've been tracking it, and we can also assume that not every mutation would be unique, then it would be mathematically impossible for humans to have evolved from chimpanzees in the amount of time the that universe has existed, much less since the 5-12 million years chimpanzees have existed on earth.

It is much more likely that either chimpanzees devolved from humans, or that DNA was intentionally added to that of the Chimpanzees.

I choose to believe the former, but for anyone who completely denies the possibility of intelligent design is just plain ignorant of the facts.

Last Edited by TheUnknownSoldier on 11/06/2018 02:52 PM

There are a few flaws in your equation. First, The last common ancestor of humans and chimps is estimated to have lived 6-15 million years ago. At that time, chimps and humans didn't exist. Chimps have been evolving for all of that time just as we have, which would drastically reduce your results.

One mutation can alter more than one base pair.

64 mutations per generation sounds too low, but we'll go with that. It's not 64 mutations per generation across the entire human population, but for every individual pair that reproduces. Meaning if the population count is 2 pairs, and those two reproduce, you now have 128 new mutations in the population. So It should be 64 mutations per generation times the number of reproducing pairs in the population. Again, this will drastically reduce your result.

also, 20 years is probably a bit high for a generation.



There has been examples of information being added. 10 in the last 28 years is way too low.



We've found homo sapien remains that are 300,000 years old. I don't understand how you arrived at 1,350,000 germ line mutations based on your figures for 'new information.'



What evidence do you have for intelligent design? Negative evidence against evolution does not count as positive evidence for intelligent design.

Last Edited by Spur-Man on 11/06/2018 09:05 PM

Evolution has mostly scrubbed that fourth cone from the mammalian lineage.

we devolved.

Any change is evolution. Are you saying that all humans had 4 cones in the past?

im saying the code WAS already there for mammals, but there has been a LOSS of information in the DNA so that it is very rare now.

you have to put "evolution" in the title so it shows up in Life Sciences category

nope evolutionary also works

Last Edited by Kakarot on 11/08/2018 07:35 PM

it really doesnt

What are GMOs?

Genetic engineering is a technology that forces genetic information across the protective species barrier in an unnatural way.

A GMO (genetically modified organism) is the result of taking genes from one species such as bacteria, virus, plant, animal or human and inserting them into the DNA of another (a food crop or animal) in an attempt to introduce a new trait or characteristic

This is manipulation not evolution.

Flawed premise.

More information is not a requirement for "evolving". Often quite the opposite. Unuseful mutations are discarded as useful are added.

Is a book better just because it is longer?

Try again.