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Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max

 
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA

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11/07/2018 06:23 AM

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Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max

...
The bulletin from Boeing will alert airlines that erroneous readings from a flight-monitoring system can cause the planes to abruptly dive, said the person, who asked not to be named discussing details of the manufacturer’s plans. Boeing will warn pilots to follow an existing procedure to handle the problem, the person said.

-50%
[link to www.bloomberg.com (secure)]

hiding
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/07/2018 06:25 AM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Boeing’s new 737 MAX may ‘abruptly dive’ due to errors – media

According to the report, the warning is based on the investigation of the Lion Air Flight 610 crash in Indonesia. On October 29, a Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft crashed in the sea shortly after takeoff, killing all 189 people on board.

-50%
[link to www.rt.com (secure)]

hiding
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/07/2018 06:29 AM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Boeing STatement on Operations Manual Bulletin
...


On November 6, 2018, Boeing issued an Operations Manual Bulletin (OMB) directing operators to existing flight crew procedures to address circumstances where there is erroneous input from an AOA sensor.

The investigation into Lion Air flight 610 is ongoing and Boeing continues to cooperate fully and provide technical assistance at the request and under the direction of government authorities investigating the accident.

-50%
[link to boeing.mediaroom.com]

abduct
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
kaibosh

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11/07/2018 09:34 AM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Holy crap. I can't imagine how a faulty pitot tube could explain the craft hitting the water at 630mph at a 45 degree angle. In the case of the Air France crash, they were in absolute darkness in a thunderstorm, but this happened in broad daylight. The fact that the FOUR previous flights reported issues with the airspeed indicator is beyond monstrous. How in the fuck could something that serious just be shrugged off?

There were several other incidents in the past, a few that involved wasps nests in the pitot tubes in flights around Portugal and Greece. Those pilots realized what was going on and ignored the computer.
Maxx Steel

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11/07/2018 12:17 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
should call it the 737 Min then I guess... ror for math joke
The Deplorable Nicomachus

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11/07/2018 12:22 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Just a reminder that Lion Air has one of the worst track records in aviation history. Thousands of 737 MAX planes fly everyday without issue. Third world airlines is the problem, NOT Boeing.
"If Muslims are so peaceful, why are so many people afraid to offend them? If Christians are so dangerous, why is nobody afraid to offend them?"

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Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/07/2018 12:53 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
This is some MeAg-fuckery!!!

wtf

TSB investigators in Halifax after 747 cargo jet goes off runway

Plane en route from Chicago stopped 50 metres from fence near public road

On a night landing at Halifax Airport, the Boeing 747-400F cargo aircraft overran the end of the runway coming to a stop on soft ground. All on board suvived with minor or no injuries.

-50%
[link to www.cbc.ca (secure)]

tomato

This one is definitely a write-off. I hope they have good insurance coverage!!
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Agent Smith 2014

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11/07/2018 01:20 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
You'd think the system would use multiple methods to check it's readings are accurate, such as an optical sensor that actually looked for the horizon. Oh yea a pilot. This is why pilots should not rely on autopilot.
Life is a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.
JustTheFactsPlease

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11/07/2018 02:42 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Holy crap. I can't imagine how a faulty pitot tube could explain the craft hitting the water at 630mph at a 45 degree angle. In the case of the Air France crash, they were in absolute darkness in a thunderstorm, but this happened in broad daylight. The fact that the FOUR previous flights reported issues with the airspeed indicator is beyond monstrous. How in the fuck could something that serious just be shrugged off?

There were several other incidents in the past, a few that involved wasps nests in the pitot tubes in flights around Portugal and Greece. Those pilots realized what was going on and ignored the computer.
 Quoting: kaibosh


Faulty pitot tube readings and the flight crews not responding to them correctly have caused several crashes over the years.

IF there were really problems on 4 previous flights OBVIOUSLY the maintenance crews failed miserably to do their jobs....again, IF that is true this plane should never have been put back in service until the problem was resolved.

still far to early to know what really happened though.
JustTheFactsPlease
Blunt Force Trauma

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11/07/2018 03:09 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
I'm not a pilot, but I pretend to be one on GLP...

When "air-speed" drops low enough, a stall-warning will begin blaring...

This is an Emergency... No air-speed = free-fall...

Even though the "air-speed" is an erroneous indication by the instruments, the stall warning will create a certain amount of panic in the pilot.

I believe the procedure for a "stall" is to pitch the nose down, and boost the throttle to increase speed...

Which would explain the high-speed, nose-down, dive into the ocean.

The pilot must have mis-judged the altitude as well...

?
Where Blather Vs Godzilla

-RETURNS-
Endtimewatchman

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11/07/2018 03:41 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
I'm not a pilot, but I pretend to be one on GLP...

When "air-speed" drops low enough, a stall-warning will begin blaring...

This is an Emergency... No air-speed = free-fall...

Even though the "air-speed" is an erroneous indication by the instruments, the stall warning will create a certain amount of panic in the pilot.

I believe the procedure for a "stall" is to pitch the nose down, and boost the throttle to increase speed...

Which would explain the high-speed, nose-down, dive into the ocean.

The pilot must have mis-judged the altitude as well...

?
 Quoting: Blunt Force Trauma
There is this amazing invention they have in airplanes called windows.....assuming the pilot had visibility. Unless there is a radical flight control problem it seems logical to turn off any or all flight control/computer controlled flight systems and try to take over manually. I am a pilot and licensed mechanic BTW.
Base12

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11/07/2018 03:52 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
That was nice of Lion Air to beta test the new aircraft.

1doh1
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***SUPERFLY***

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11/07/2018 04:02 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Holy crap. I can't imagine how a faulty pitot tube could explain the craft hitting the water at 630mph at a 45 degree angle. In the case of the Air France crash, they were in absolute darkness in a thunderstorm, but this happened in broad daylight. The fact that the FOUR previous flights reported issues with the airspeed indicator is beyond monstrous. How in the fuck could something that serious just be shrugged off?

There were several other incidents in the past, a few that involved wasps nests in the pitot tubes in flights around Portugal and Greece. Those pilots realized what was going on and ignored the computer.
 Quoting: kaibosh


I guess there is no way for pilots to manually fly a plane anymore without gadgets.
***SUPERFLY***
samus79

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11/07/2018 04:11 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
I'm not a pilot, but I pretend to be one on GLP...

When "air-speed" drops low enough, a stall-warning will begin blaring...

This is an Emergency... No air-speed = free-fall...

Even though the "air-speed" is an erroneous indication by the instruments, the stall warning will create a certain amount of panic in the pilot.

I believe the procedure for a "stall" is to pitch the nose down, and boost the throttle to increase speed...

Which would explain the high-speed, nose-down, dive into the ocean.

The pilot must have mis-judged the altitude as well...

?
 Quoting: Blunt Force Trauma
There is this amazing invention they have in airplanes called windows.....assuming the pilot had visibility. Unless there is a radical flight control problem it seems logical to turn off any or all flight control/computer controlled flight systems and try to take over manually. I am a pilot and licensed mechanic BTW.
 Quoting: Endtimewatchman


Stick pusher probably noses them over and they were already at low altitude so no time to recover. I’m a licensed aircraft mechanic too hf
Out from the belly of a whale came a prophet, Amen!
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/07/2018 04:16 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
That was nice of Lion Air to beta test the new aircraft.

1doh1
 Quoting: Base12





bash
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/07/2018 04:22 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
I guess there is no way for pilots to manually fly a plane anymore without gadgets.
 Quoting: ***SUPERFLY***


There are still huge numbers of old style, non "fly by wire" aircraft flying in many countries around the world.

Old 727s, 737s, 747-100s, B707s, Airbus A300s and then all the old Russian Ilyushin and Tupolev

all doing passenger flights.

They are not rare, will not find them in our countries of course.

abduct
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/07/2018 04:24 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Thanks for the pine, by the way!
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Blunt Force Trauma

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11/07/2018 05:02 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
I'm not a pilot, but I pretend to be one on GLP...

When "air-speed" drops low enough, a stall-warning will begin blaring...

This is an Emergency... No air-speed = free-fall...

Even though the "air-speed" is an erroneous indication by the instruments, the stall warning will create a certain amount of panic in the pilot.

I believe the procedure for a "stall" is to pitch the nose down, and boost the throttle to increase speed...

Which would explain the high-speed, nose-down, dive into the ocean.

The pilot must have mis-judged the altitude as well...

?
 Quoting: Blunt Force Trauma
There is this amazing invention they have in airplanes called windows.....assuming the pilot had visibility. Unless there is a radical flight control problem it seems logical to turn off any or all flight control/computer controlled flight systems and try to take over manually. I am a pilot and licensed mechanic BTW.
 Quoting: Endtimewatchman


It's easy to misjudge height, speed, or distance from looking out a window.

The pilots windows don't allow a very good view of anything anyway.

I have always thought (as well as others) the aircraft should be flown from the tail-section, above the body of the aircraft.

You can see the wings, engines, flaps and the body of the aircraft.

When you are crammed in the nose of it you can't see shit...
?
Where Blather Vs Godzilla

-RETURNS-
Blunt Force Trauma

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11/07/2018 05:11 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Lion Air pilot should have kicked the window out, and stuck his wet thumb out there to determine air-speed.

I would have...

After slapping the co-pilot, and accusing him of fucking-with-me...

And stop calling me Shirley...

I think I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue...
...
Where Blather Vs Godzilla

-RETURNS-
Mack

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11/07/2018 05:20 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
After he pitched down the nose, the pilot watched his airspeed indicator, waiting for it to show the plane gain speed. That's because he thought he was traveling at the 170 mph "stall" speed of his indicator; actual speed was approximately 500 mph!
From an altitude of 1800 feet, the plane descended at 45 degrees. At a supposed "stall" speed of 170 mph, the pilot knew he had at least 12 seconds before the plane struck the water, but that airspeed would start to recover in just one second. After one second, maybe two, he'd raise the nose. But the stick shaker never stopped, because of the faulty indicator; meanwhile the real speed was a normal 500 mph.
Eyes on the indicator, in 3 seconds the pilot flew into the ocean.
DFDoe

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11/07/2018 05:49 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
I'm not a pilot, but I pretend to be one on GLP...

When "air-speed" drops low enough, a stall-warning will begin blaring...

This is an Emergency... No air-speed = free-fall...

Even though the "air-speed" is an erroneous indication by the instruments, the stall warning will create a certain amount of panic in the pilot.

I believe the procedure for a "stall" is to pitch the nose down, and boost the throttle to increase speed...

Which would explain the high-speed, nose-down, dive into the ocean.

The pilot must have mis-judged the altitude as well...

?
 Quoting: Blunt Force Trauma
There is this amazing invention they have in airplanes called windows.....assuming the pilot had visibility. Unless there is a radical flight control problem it seems logical to turn off any or all flight control/computer controlled flight systems and try to take over manually. I am a pilot and licensed mechanic BTW.
 Quoting: Endtimewatchman


It's easy to misjudge height, speed, or distance from looking out a window.

The pilots windows don't allow a very good view of anything anyway.

I have always thought (as well as others) the aircraft should be flown from the tail-section, above the body of the aircraft.

You can see the wings, engines, flaps and the body of the aircraft.

When you are crammed in the nose of it you can't see shit...
?
 Quoting: Blunt Force Trauma


You can see just fine Mr Expert. I don't know what happened here, but it could be low-time pilots in a sophisticated aircraft. Any problem that occurs, the first rule of being a pilot is to fly the airplane. This would mean in this case, to disconnect Auto-pilot, and if the stick-shaker is active to disconnect that too.

Losing a Pitot feed can be confusing as hell, but at the end of the day, you're flying an airplane, so fly it. A pilot knows instinctively if he's flying fast enough to avoid a stall, regardless of instrument feedback. If you're rated in that airplane, you know that airplane.

If the Auto Pilot nosed the airplane over on its own due to a faulty pitot feed to the flight system (Airspeed, ambient) then again, take the airplane away from the technology and fly the fucker!
Victor Vectors

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11/07/2018 06:52 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Holy crap. I can't imagine how a faulty pitot tube could explain the craft hitting the water at 630mph at a 45 degree angle. In the case of the Air France crash, they were in absolute darkness in a thunderstorm, but this happened in broad daylight. The fact that the FOUR previous flights reported issues with the airspeed indicator is beyond monstrous. How in the fuck could something that serious just be shrugged off?

There were several other incidents in the past, a few that involved wasps nests in the pitot tubes in flights around Portugal and Greece. Those pilots realized what was going on and ignored the computer.
 Quoting: kaibosh


I don't understand how a pilot could not override all those systems and PULL UP?
Videobarbs

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11/07/2018 07:14 PM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Dammit, they've had safety warning on the 737 before. As I recall it was an out of control rudder situation. Shame on them!!!shocked
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/08/2018 07:06 AM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
What the fuuu?

Royal Brunei Airlines Boeing 787 Engine Shuts Down in Flight

Aircraft was enroute to London when the crew decided to shut the left hand engine (Trent 1000) down due to an oil leak and to divert to Vienna.
The aircraft landed safely on Vienna’s runway 16 about 30 minutes later.

-50%
[link to aviationvoice.com (secure)]

Rolls Royce Trents are supposed to be good engines...

hiding
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
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11/08/2018 03:24 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
At Boeing’s 777X wing factory, robots get big jobs

Boeing is taking a big step toward a future in which much of an aircraft factory’s work is done by automated machines and robots. Some areas of the Everett facility will have massive machines and just a handful of humans.

As the first 110-footlong wing skin panel for Boeing’s new 777X jet moved slowly across a mammoth new Everett factory building one morning earlier this month, a small crew walked alongside, watching for any possibility of an expensive collision.

The “spotters” escorted the panel’s bright-orange transport platform as it followed invisible tracks embedded in the concrete floor and slid with a tight fit into the big cylindrical autoclave where the part would bake to hardness.

-50%
read more here:
[link to www.seattletimes.com (secure)]


abduct
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/09/2018 05:19 AM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Flybe midair HORROR as plane set by autopilot to CRASH in UK with passengers on board

A FLYBE plane was hit by midair horror as it plummeted 500 feet in just 18 seconds of an autopilot error, it has emerged.

The Flybe Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 carrying 40 passengers took off from Belfast City Airport.

Shortly after it left the runway the crew released something was wrong when the aircraft began to point towards the ground.

An incorrect setting on the autopilot has been blamed for the terrifying ordeal, revealed a report by the Air Accident Investigations Branch (AAIB).

-50%
[link to www.dailystar.co.uk (secure)]


abduct
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Tainted Meat

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11/09/2018 05:34 AM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Holy crap. I can't imagine how a faulty pitot tube could explain the craft hitting the water at 630mph at a 45 degree angle. In the case of the Air France crash, they were in absolute darkness in a thunderstorm, but this happened in broad daylight. The fact that the FOUR previous flights reported issues with the airspeed indicator is beyond monstrous. How in the fuck could something that serious just be shrugged off?

There were several other incidents in the past, a few that involved wasps nests in the pitot tubes in flights around Portugal and Greece. Those pilots realized what was going on and ignored the computer.
 Quoting: kaibosh


I don't understand how a pilot could not override all those systems and PULL UP?
 Quoting: Victor Vectors

Fly-by-wire. There is no direct link between the control surfaces and the stick. Everything goes through the computers and they vote what will happen next. The pilot merely makes requests by operating the controls.
The buttering of human beans has begined!
Didyabringyabongalong​

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11/09/2018 05:42 AM
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
After he pitched down the nose, the pilot watched his airspeed indicator, waiting for it to show the plane gain speed. That's because he thought he was traveling at the 170 mph "stall" speed of his indicator; actual speed was approximately 500 mph!
From an altitude of 1800 feet, the plane descended at 45 degrees. At a supposed "stall" speed of 170 mph, the pilot knew he had at least 12 seconds before the plane struck the water, but that airspeed would start to recover in just one second. After one second, maybe two, he'd raise the nose. But the stick shaker never stopped, because of the faulty indicator; meanwhile the real speed was a normal 500 mph.
Eyes on the indicator, in 3 seconds the pilot flew into the ocean.
 Quoting: Mack


My God that sounds horrifying.

I used to work in a industry that has high risk factor and some training introduced us to what's referred to as normalization of deviation, which if I remember correctly, is from the aviation industry. Acceptance of sub par performance until it becomes the norm.
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/09/2018 08:15 AM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Again another carsh!!

128 on board.

wtf

Boeing jet crash-lands at Guyana airport, 6 people injured (PHOTOS)


Six people were injured after a Boeing 757 with more than 120 people on board crash-landed at Guyana’s Georgetown airport, officials said. The aircraft was en route to Canada.

Less than 20 minutes after takeoff, the Toronto-bound jet had to change course and return to the departure airport due to mid-air malfunction. The crew noticed a problem with the hydraulic system and was forced to turn the aircraft back to Cheddi Jagan Airport.

-50%
read more + pictures
[link to www.rt.com (secure)]


hiding

Last Edited by Concorde Warrior F-BVFA on 11/09/2018 08:17 AM
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Concorde Warrior F-BVFA  (OP)

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11/13/2018 12:29 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
Indonesian woman who lost fiance in Lion Air crash goes ahead with their planned wedding

JAKARTA - An Indonesian woman who lost her fiance in last month's Lion Air plane crash near Jakarta went ahead with their planned wedding alone, to fulfil his last wish.

Hospital staffer Ms Intan Syari, 26, and Mr Rio Nanda Pratama, a medical doctor, had hired an event organiser named "Adiela" and decided on Nov 11 as their wedding day.

Rio, 26, was among the 189 people on board Lion Air Flight JT610 that crashed 13 minutes after take-off from Jakarta on Oct 29. The plane was bound for Pangkal Pinang. He was returning home after attending a conference in Jakarta.

-50%
[link to www.straitstimes.com (secure)]

hf

Such a sad... and beautiful story.
May she always remain faithful to the man who was going to be and now is her husband.
I think it is nice of Indonesia that they let her marry him even though he is no longer of this world.
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

"I would say today we can integrate all religions and races EXCEPT ISLAM."
Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew
Carnac

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11/13/2018 12:46 PM

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing Close to Issuing Safety Warning on 737 Max
You'd think the system would use multiple methods to check it's readings are accurate, such as an optical sensor that actually looked for the horizon. Oh yea a pilot. This is why pilots should not rely on autopilot.
 Quoting: Agent Smith 2014


Real time satellite data. The gps in our vehicles can provide more reliable information that the instruments on a plane with a problem tube.

The air traffic control tower knew in real time that the plane was having issues.... yet the pilots do not have the same information.

And it was a new plane.... Jesus, use the technology available... yeah, the pilots should have not been confused about the faulty sensor long enough to put the flight in danger, it it a rather common problem.... but it did and has and will happen again... so incorporate real time speed and altitude data from satellite data.