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Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory

 
newtome

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Except how life originated.
 Quoting: musashi777


Yes, it doesn't explain how life originated, nor is it supposed to. What I mean is that it explains why lifeforms are the way they appear in the present. It explains why every organism we discover fits into a single nested hierarchy, with a time frame, and pattern of divergence that looks exactly like a big family tree.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


[link to www.nature.com (secure)]

Was the universal common ancestry proved?
Takahiro Yonezawa & Masami Hasegawa
Nature volume 468, page E9 (16 December 2010) | Download Citation

Abstract
Arising from D. L. Theobald Nature 465, 219–222 (2010)10.1038/nature09014; Theobald reply

The question of whether or not all life on Earth shares a single common ancestor has been a central problem of evolutionary biology since Darwin1. Although the theory of universal common ancestry (UCA) has gathered a compelling list of circumstantial evidence, as given in ref. 2, there has been no attempt to test statistically the UCA hypothesis among the three domains of life (eubacteria, archaebacteria and eukaryotes) by using molecular sequences. Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds. Although his attempt is the first step towards establishing the UCA theory with a solid statistical basis, we think that the test of Theobald2 is not sufficient enough to reject the alternative hypothesis of the separate origins of life, despite the Akaike information criterion (AIC) of model selection3 giving a clear distinction between the competing hypotheses.
 Quoting: newtome


What's your point?

I often consider that there may have been multiple abiogenesis events, and that these separate lines exchanged genes horizontally.

"Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds."
 Quoting: Spur-Man


It doesn't say that it doesn't hold, it says it doesn't reject other hypotheses
Kakarot

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
All I know is that humans seem to have the behavioral potential of the entire animal kingdom. As of now my thought s can only reach so far. Allow me tomorrow morning to ponder your challenge. For now, it seems to me that we exist in a persistent illusion whereas there seems to be some deeper truth evading our five sensory perceptions..If there were a God, why not use the animal world to demonstrate the range of potential that is within our souls I.E. Lowly vs Noble
 Quoting: musashi777


I don't see what that has to do with how modern life got to where it is.
If there is a God, why not create a universe in which nature would automatically produce the life we see through the process of evolution?

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



For the bible to be real, animals would have to be able to adapt to changing circumstances. The nature of reality is so far beyond what they hypothesised in darwins time, that at this point anything is possible. That being said, a single cell is more sophisticated than our most advanced technology, I have a hard time believing that it came about without a designer. I am not saying anything new, people are entitled to their opinions, however Darwinism has caused irreparable damage to western society, only by a miracle will we get out of this in tact.
 Quoting: musashi777


You can't even debunk the best evidence for evolution. I wonder why.
Kakarot
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01/22/2019 05:47 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
All I know is that humans seem to have the behavioral potential of the entire animal kingdom. As of now my thought s can only reach so far. Allow me tomorrow morning to ponder your challenge. For now, it seems to me that we exist in a persistent illusion whereas there seems to be some deeper truth evading our five sensory perceptions..If there were a God, why not use the animal world to demonstrate the range of potential that is within our souls I.E. Lowly vs Noble
 Quoting: musashi777


I don't see what that has to do with how modern life got to where it is.
If there is a God, why not create a universe in which nature would automatically produce the life we see through the process of evolution?

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



For the bible to be real, animals would have to be able to adapt to changing circumstances. The nature of reality is so far beyond what they hypothesised in darwins time, that at this point anything is possible. That being said, a single cell is more sophisticated than our most advanced technology, I have a hard time believing that it came about without a designer. I am not saying anything new, people are entitled to their opinions, however Darwinism has caused irreparable damage to western society, only by a miracle will we get out of this in tact.
 Quoting: musashi777


You can't even debunk the best evidence for evolution. I wonder why.
 Quoting: Kakarot


fine. but for me i don't see this "God" as a Being.
i see this "Intelligent Design" as just another
aspect, mechanism, in this Great Cosmic Manifestation.
newtome

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01/22/2019 05:52 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
All I know is that humans seem to have the behavioral potential of the entire animal kingdom. As of now my thought s can only reach so far. Allow me tomorrow morning to ponder your challenge. For now, it seems to me that we exist in a persistent illusion whereas there seems to be some deeper truth evading our five sensory perceptions..If there were a God, why not use the animal world to demonstrate the range of potential that is within our souls I.E. Lowly vs Noble
 Quoting: musashi777


I don't see what that has to do with how modern life got to where it is.
If there is a God, why not create a universe in which nature would automatically produce the life we see through the process of evolution?

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


The bold is a positive assertion. Can you prove conclusively where Pinnipeds come from?
Spur-Man

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Yes, it doesn't explain how life originated, nor is it supposed to. What I mean is that it explains why lifeforms are the way they appear in the present. It explains why every organism we discover fits into a single nested hierarchy, with a time frame, and pattern of divergence that looks exactly like a big family tree.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


[link to www.nature.com (secure)]

Was the universal common ancestry proved?
Takahiro Yonezawa & Masami Hasegawa
Nature volume 468, page E9 (16 December 2010) | Download Citation

Abstract
Arising from D. L. Theobald Nature 465, 219–222 (2010)10.1038/nature09014; Theobald reply

The question of whether or not all life on Earth shares a single common ancestor has been a central problem of evolutionary biology since Darwin1. Although the theory of universal common ancestry (UCA) has gathered a compelling list of circumstantial evidence, as given in ref. 2, there has been no attempt to test statistically the UCA hypothesis among the three domains of life (eubacteria, archaebacteria and eukaryotes) by using molecular sequences. Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds. Although his attempt is the first step towards establishing the UCA theory with a solid statistical basis, we think that the test of Theobald2 is not sufficient enough to reject the alternative hypothesis of the separate origins of life, despite the Akaike information criterion (AIC) of model selection3 giving a clear distinction between the competing hypotheses.
 Quoting: newtome


What's your point?

I often consider that there may have been multiple abiogenesis events, and that these separate lines exchanged genes horizontally.

"Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds."
 Quoting: Spur-Man


It doesn't say that it doesn't hold, it says it doesn't reject other hypotheses
 Quoting: newtome


It says that the UCA (universal common ancestor) hypothesis holds after comparing gene sequences across different domains of life. However, this isn't sufficient to rule out separate origins entirely for the three domains. This was nearly 9 years ago.

Again, what is your point?
Spur-Man

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01/22/2019 06:05 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
All I know is that humans seem to have the behavioral potential of the entire animal kingdom. As of now my thought s can only reach so far. Allow me tomorrow morning to ponder your challenge. For now, it seems to me that we exist in a persistent illusion whereas there seems to be some deeper truth evading our five sensory perceptions..If there were a God, why not use the animal world to demonstrate the range of potential that is within our souls I.E. Lowly vs Noble
 Quoting: musashi777


I don't see what that has to do with how modern life got to where it is.
If there is a God, why not create a universe in which nature would automatically produce the life we see through the process of evolution?

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


The bold is a positive assertion. Can you prove conclusively where Pinnipeds come from?
 Quoting: newtome


Pinnipeds? It's a mammal of the order carnivora. The genetic evidence indicates that it shares a common ancestor with land dwelling carnivorans. Its appearance alone would suggest this.

In addition, we have fossils that show these animals becoming aquatic over time.

Last Edited by Spur-Man on 01/22/2019 06:08 AM
Spur-Man

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
Mary Schweitzer didn't lose her job at all, and she's repeatedly told you Creationists to stop using her to support your position. She accepts evolution.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Does she take it in the ass like most satanists? Dry penetration is their favorite.

Mccoy
 Quoting: Chip


How vulgar. I'm sure Jesus approves.
Spur-Man

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01/22/2019 06:15 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
Mary Schweitzer didn't lose her job at all, and she's repeatedly told you Creationists to stop using her to support your position. She accepts evolution.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Does she take it in the ass like most satanists? Dry penetration is their favorite.

Mccoy
 Quoting: Chip


How vulgar. I'm sure Jesus approves.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


No. He doesn't. Ask those of sodom.

cruiser
 Quoting: Chip


I was talking about your comment. Mary Sweitzer is a bright Christian woman, and you come in here talking about her getting dry fucked in the ass.

"it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

-Jesus
newtome

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01/22/2019 06:16 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
All I know is that humans seem to have the behavioral potential of the entire animal kingdom. As of now my thought s can only reach so far. Allow me tomorrow morning to ponder your challenge. For now, it seems to me that we exist in a persistent illusion whereas there seems to be some deeper truth evading our five sensory perceptions..If there were a God, why not use the animal world to demonstrate the range of potential that is within our souls I.E. Lowly vs Noble
 Quoting: musashi777


I don't see what that has to do with how modern life got to where it is.
If there is a God, why not create a universe in which nature would automatically produce the life we see through the process of evolution?

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


The bold is a positive assertion. Can you prove conclusively where Pinnipeds come from?
 Quoting: newtome


Pinnipeds? It's a mammal of the order carnivora. The genetic evidence indicates that it shares a common ancestor with land dwelling carnivorans. Its appearance alone would suggest this.

In addition, we have fossils that show these animals becoming aquatic over time.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



Not a generality, specifically. They are still debating where the different types of Pinnipeds "evolved" from.

So can you trace a Walrus all the way back to the initial microbes?
newtome

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01/22/2019 06:17 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
...


[link to www.nature.com (secure)]

Was the universal common ancestry proved?
Takahiro Yonezawa & Masami Hasegawa
Nature volume 468, page E9 (16 December 2010) | Download Citation

Abstract
Arising from D. L. Theobald Nature 465, 219–222 (2010)10.1038/nature09014; Theobald reply

The question of whether or not all life on Earth shares a single common ancestor has been a central problem of evolutionary biology since Darwin1. Although the theory of universal common ancestry (UCA) has gathered a compelling list of circumstantial evidence, as given in ref. 2, there has been no attempt to test statistically the UCA hypothesis among the three domains of life (eubacteria, archaebacteria and eukaryotes) by using molecular sequences. Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds. Although his attempt is the first step towards establishing the UCA theory with a solid statistical basis, we think that the test of Theobald2 is not sufficient enough to reject the alternative hypothesis of the separate origins of life, despite the Akaike information criterion (AIC) of model selection3 giving a clear distinction between the competing hypotheses.
 Quoting: newtome


What's your point?

I often consider that there may have been multiple abiogenesis events, and that these separate lines exchanged genes horizontally.

"Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds."
 Quoting: Spur-Man


It doesn't say that it doesn't hold, it says it doesn't reject other hypotheses
 Quoting: newtome


It says that the UCA (universal common ancestor) hypothesis holds after comparing gene sequences across different domains of life. However, this isn't sufficient to rule out separate origins entirely for the three domains. This was nearly 9 years ago.

Again, what is your point?
 Quoting: Spur-Man



My point is that other hypotheses are yet to be ruled out.
Spur-Man

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How vulgar. I'm sure Jesus approves.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


No. He doesn't. Ask those of sodom.

cruiser
 Quoting: Chip


I was talking about your comment. Mary Sweitzer is a bright Christian woman, and you come in here talking about her getting dry fucked in the ass.

"it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

-Jesus
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Is that what those in sodom told you?

wwjd2
 Quoting: Chip


It's from Mathew 15:11. A quote from your lord and savior. I've never spoken to anyone from Sodom, because you know, I don't have a time machine.
Spur-Man

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01/22/2019 06:22 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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What's your point?

I often consider that there may have been multiple abiogenesis events, and that these separate lines exchanged genes horizontally.

"Theobald2 recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds."
 Quoting: Spur-Man


It doesn't say that it doesn't hold, it says it doesn't reject other hypotheses
 Quoting: newtome


It says that the UCA (universal common ancestor) hypothesis holds after comparing gene sequences across different domains of life. However, this isn't sufficient to rule out separate origins entirely for the three domains. This was nearly 9 years ago.

Again, what is your point?
 Quoting: Spur-Man



My point is that other hypotheses are yet to be ruled out.
 Quoting: newtome


The hypothesis that these three domains of life have separate origins has not been ruled out. But there are infinite things we can't rule out, what's important is what the evidence supports.

This is why the burden of proof is on the positive claim.
Spur-Man

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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I don't see what that has to do with how modern life got to where it is.
If there is a God, why not create a universe in which nature would automatically produce the life we see through the process of evolution?

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


The bold is a positive assertion. Can you prove conclusively where Pinnipeds come from?
 Quoting: newtome


Pinnipeds? It's a mammal of the order carnivora. The genetic evidence indicates that it shares a common ancestor with land dwelling carnivorans. Its appearance alone would suggest this.

In addition, we have fossils that show these animals becoming aquatic over time.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



Not a generality, specifically. They are still debating where the different types of Pinnipeds "evolved" from.

So can you trace a Walrus all the way back to the initial microbes?
 Quoting: newtome


No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
Spur-Man

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I was talking about your comment. Mary Sweitzer is a bright Christian woman, and you come in here talking about her getting dry fucked in the ass.

"it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

-Jesus
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Is that what those in sodom told you?

wwjd2
 Quoting: Chip


It's from Mathew 15:11. A quote from your lord and savior. I've never spoken to anyone from Sodom, because you know, I don't have a time machine.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


He's very wise. Thank God he didnt charge me with taking it in the ass like Mary.

gnomesayin
 Quoting: Chip


I'm not sure why you're so sure she takes it in the ass. It's not like she's an altar boy.
newtome

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The bold is a positive assertion. Can you prove conclusively where Pinnipeds come from?
 Quoting: newtome


Pinnipeds? It's a mammal of the order carnivora. The genetic evidence indicates that it shares a common ancestor with land dwelling carnivorans. Its appearance alone would suggest this.

In addition, we have fossils that show these animals becoming aquatic over time.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



Not a generality, specifically. They are still debating where the different types of Pinnipeds "evolved" from.

So can you trace a Walrus all the way back to the initial microbes?
 Quoting: newtome


No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
Spur-Man

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Pinnipeds? It's a mammal of the order carnivora. The genetic evidence indicates that it shares a common ancestor with land dwelling carnivorans. Its appearance alone would suggest this.

In addition, we have fossils that show these animals becoming aquatic over time.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



Not a generality, specifically. They are still debating where the different types of Pinnipeds "evolved" from.

So can you trace a Walrus all the way back to the initial microbes?
 Quoting: newtome


No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.

Last Edited by Spur-Man on 01/22/2019 10:21 AM
newtome

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Not a generality, specifically. They are still debating where the different types of Pinnipeds "evolved" from.

So can you trace a Walrus all the way back to the initial microbes?
 Quoting: newtome


No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.

Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but are the accepted model at the moment?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
Colloidal Peanut Butter

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No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.

Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but are the accepted model at the moment?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome

Laughing chimp
newtome

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.

Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but are the accepted model at the moment?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome



Meant to read

Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but evolution theory is the accepted model at the moment?
Spur-Man

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No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: newtome


I'm not running away at all. The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does. Why is life arranged in nested hierarchies? Because different taxa diverge from common ancestors. This also explains why identical ERV's are distributed across different taxa to varying degrees, in accordance with their taxonomic classification. Why do we see taxa emerge in the sequence demonstrated in the fossil record? Because earlier taxa evolved into the later ones.


Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but evolution is the accepted model at the moment?
 Quoting: newtome


I never said evolution isn't the accepted model at the moment. There are infinite hypotheses we can't disprove, but what reason is there to think any of them are correct? The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that it is highly unlikely for it to be incorrect. What hypothesis do you have that can equally explain the facts, make valid predictions and be equally supported by the evidence?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome


I never gave you a definition of proof. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't prove that I'm not in a coma right now, but I have no reason to think I am.
musashi777  (OP)

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01/22/2019 10:21 PM

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Not a generality, specifically. They are still debating where the different types of Pinnipeds "evolved" from.

So can you trace a Walrus all the way back to the initial microbes?
 Quoting: newtome


No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



This guy is like the atheist version of mr. VIP
musashi777  (OP)

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01/22/2019 10:24 PM

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How vulgar. I'm sure Jesus approves.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


No. He doesn't. Ask those of sodom.

cruiser
 Quoting: Chip


I was talking about your comment. Mary Sweitzer is a bright Christian woman, and you come in here talking about her getting dry fucked in the ass.

"it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

-Jesus
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Is that what those in sodom told you?

wwjd2
 Quoting: Chip



I love it when Jesus gets all high and mighty!!!


bumpfuckyeah5bump
musashi777  (OP)

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01/22/2019 10:26 PM

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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
belgium

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01/23/2019 05:47 PM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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No, there's no real debate. Pennipeds are in the order Carnivora. Those in the order Carnivora are more related to each other than those outside the order.

All the evidence indicates that walruses diverged from Carnivorans, which diverged from mammals, which diverged from tetrapods, which diverged from chordates, which diverged from eukaryotes.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



This guy is like the atheist version of mr. VIP
 Quoting: musashi777


This guy believes that algorithms, codes, blueprints, designs, features and complex systems can be created/achieved without intelligence or mind.

And he'll defend this position, with... his own intelligence, which by his own retarded worldview, is the result of random chance events and should by definition not be trustworthy or rational.

The kind of person that is impressed by nothing and no evidence will ever suffice due to bias, prejudice, closedmindedness and ofcourse casual god hating pop culture.
For science!
newtome

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01/23/2019 07:05 PM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: newtome


I'm not running away at all. The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does. Why is life arranged in nested hierarchies? Because different taxa diverge from common ancestors. This also explains why identical ERV's are distributed across different taxa to varying degrees, in accordance with their taxonomic classification. Why do we see taxa emerge in the sequence demonstrated in the fossil record? Because earlier taxa evolved into the later ones.


Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but evolution is the accepted model at the moment?
 Quoting: newtome


I never said evolution isn't the accepted model at the moment. There are infinite hypotheses we can't disprove, but what reason is there to think any of them are correct? The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that it is highly unlikely for it to be incorrect. What hypothesis do you have that can equally explain the facts, make valid predictions and be equally supported by the evidence?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome


I never gave you a definition of proof. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't prove that I'm not in a coma right now, but I have no reason to think I am.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



So once again we are at the point where you know what you are saying must be true but you have no conclusive proof that it is, just lots of evidence....................

Can you explain how the evolutionary process has so many abrupt jumps rather than only gradual changes?
Spur-Man

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01/23/2019 10:40 PM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: newtome


I'm not running away at all. The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does. Why is life arranged in nested hierarchies? Because different taxa diverge from common ancestors. This also explains why identical ERV's are distributed across different taxa to varying degrees, in accordance with their taxonomic classification. Why do we see taxa emerge in the sequence demonstrated in the fossil record? Because earlier taxa evolved into the later ones.


Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but evolution is the accepted model at the moment?
 Quoting: newtome


I never said evolution isn't the accepted model at the moment. There are infinite hypotheses we can't disprove, but what reason is there to think any of them are correct? The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that it is highly unlikely for it to be incorrect. What hypothesis do you have that can equally explain the facts, make valid predictions and be equally supported by the evidence?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome


I never gave you a definition of proof. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't prove that I'm not in a coma right now, but I have no reason to think I am.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



So once again we are at the point where you know what you are saying must be true but you have no conclusive proof that it is, just lots of evidence....................

Can you explain how the evolutionary process has so many abrupt jumps rather than only gradual changes?
 Quoting: newtome


Are you even reading my responses? What do I know is true?

What do you mean, abrupt changes?
Spur-Man

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01/23/2019 10:41 PM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Yet they are still not certain. It has not been proven,

"All the evidence" is not proof. You made the assertion so the burden of proof is with you and "all the evidence" is not proof.
 Quoting: newtome


Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



This guy is like the atheist version of mr. VIP
 Quoting: musashi777


This guy believes that algorithms, codes, blueprints, designs, features and complex systems can be created/achieved without intelligence or mind.

And he'll defend this position, with... his own intelligence, which by his own retarded worldview, is the result of random chance events and should by definition not be trustworthy or rational.

The kind of person that is impressed by nothing and no evidence will ever suffice due to bias, prejudice, closedmindedness and ofcourse casual god hating pop culture.
 Quoting: belgium


Still waiting for you to make an argument. All you have is strawmen and ad homs.

Last Edited by Spur-Man on 01/23/2019 10:45 PM
newtome

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01/23/2019 10:50 PM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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Some say they are certain. I don't. Do you consider paternity tests to be proof? Because the ERV evidence is about as reliable.

I made the assertion that the evidence is on the side of evolution theory (specifically common ancestry)and that it can explain the observed data. It is and it does.

Proof is usually associated with math. Science builds explanatory models. Models with predictive power are more probably correct than those without.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: newtome


I'm not running away at all. The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does. Why is life arranged in nested hierarchies? Because different taxa diverge from common ancestors. This also explains why identical ERV's are distributed across different taxa to varying degrees, in accordance with their taxonomic classification. Why do we see taxa emerge in the sequence demonstrated in the fossil record? Because earlier taxa evolved into the later ones.


Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but evolution is the accepted model at the moment?
 Quoting: newtome


I never said evolution isn't the accepted model at the moment. There are infinite hypotheses we can't disprove, but what reason is there to think any of them are correct? The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that it is highly unlikely for it to be incorrect. What hypothesis do you have that can equally explain the facts, make valid predictions and be equally supported by the evidence?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome


I never gave you a definition of proof. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't prove that I'm not in a coma right now, but I have no reason to think I am.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



So once again we are at the point where you know what you are saying must be true but you have no conclusive proof that it is, just lots of evidence....................

Can you explain how the evolutionary process has so many abrupt jumps rather than only gradual changes?
 Quoting: newtome



From Berkley
[link to evolution.berkeley.edu (secure)]

Does a jump in the fossil record necessarily mean that evolution has happened in a "quick" jump?
We expect to see a jump in the fossil record if evolution has occurred as a "quick" jump, but a jump in the fossil record can also be explained by irregular fossil preservation.

We observe examples of both slow, steady change and rapid, periodic change in the fossil record. Both happen. But scientists are trying to determine which pace is more typical of evolution and how each sort of evolutionary change happens.
Spur-Man

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01/23/2019 10:56 PM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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and now you are running away from what you said

The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does, and it does so using natural phenomena that we already observe directly.
 Quoting: newtome


I'm not running away at all. The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does. Why is life arranged in nested hierarchies? Because different taxa diverge from common ancestors. This also explains why identical ERV's are distributed across different taxa to varying degrees, in accordance with their taxonomic classification. Why do we see taxa emerge in the sequence demonstrated in the fossil record? Because earlier taxa evolved into the later ones.


Are you prepared to accept that other hypotheses can also explain and have not been disproved but evolution is the accepted model at the moment?
 Quoting: newtome


I never said evolution isn't the accepted model at the moment. There are infinite hypotheses we can't disprove, but what reason is there to think any of them are correct? The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that it is highly unlikely for it to be incorrect. What hypothesis do you have that can equally explain the facts, make valid predictions and be equally supported by the evidence?

By your definition of proof the climate models don't prove the link between CO2 and temperature.
 Quoting: newtome


I never gave you a definition of proof. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't prove that I'm not in a coma right now, but I have no reason to think I am.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



So once again we are at the point where you know what you are saying must be true but you have no conclusive proof that it is, just lots of evidence....................

Can you explain how the evolutionary process has so many abrupt jumps rather than only gradual changes?
 Quoting: newtome



From Berkley
[link to evolution.berkeley.edu (secure)]

Does a jump in the fossil record necessarily mean that evolution has happened in a "quick" jump?
We expect to see a jump in the fossil record if evolution has occurred as a "quick" jump, but a jump in the fossil record can also be explained by irregular fossil preservation.

We observe examples of both slow, steady change and rapid, periodic change in the fossil record. Both happen. But scientists are trying to determine which pace is more typical of evolution and how each sort of evolutionary change happens.

 Quoting: newtome


I'm beginning to think you're not interested in a dialogue. You keep ignoring my questions and responses. What do I know is true that I have failed to provide proof for?

Changes will be more abrupt when an environment undergoes sudden change, or a population is put through a genetic bottleneck.
newtome

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01/24/2019 12:37 AM
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Re: Scientists Baffled-New Discoveries-Darwinian Evolution Crumbling-Scientists Abandon Theory
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I'm not running away at all. The model of common ancestry can explain why everything appears the way it does. Why is life arranged in nested hierarchies? Because different taxa diverge from common ancestors. This also explains why identical ERV's are distributed across different taxa to varying degrees, in accordance with their taxonomic classification. Why do we see taxa emerge in the sequence demonstrated in the fossil record? Because earlier taxa evolved into the later ones.


...


I never said evolution isn't the accepted model at the moment. There are infinite hypotheses we can't disprove, but what reason is there to think any of them are correct? The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that it is highly unlikely for it to be incorrect. What hypothesis do you have that can equally explain the facts, make valid predictions and be equally supported by the evidence?

...


I never gave you a definition of proof. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't prove that I'm not in a coma right now, but I have no reason to think I am.
 Quoting: Spur-Man



So once again we are at the point where you know what you are saying must be true but you have no conclusive proof that it is, just lots of evidence....................

Can you explain how the evolutionary process has so many abrupt jumps rather than only gradual changes?
 Quoting: newtome



From Berkley
[link to evolution.berkeley.edu (secure)]

Does a jump in the fossil record necessarily mean that evolution has happened in a "quick" jump?
We expect to see a jump in the fossil record if evolution has occurred as a "quick" jump, but a jump in the fossil record can also be explained by irregular fossil preservation.

We observe examples of both slow, steady change and rapid, periodic change in the fossil record. Both happen. But scientists are trying to determine which pace is more typical of evolution and how each sort of evolutionary change happens.

 Quoting: newtome


I'm beginning to think you're not interested in a dialogue. You keep ignoring my questions and responses. What do I know is true that I have failed to provide proof for?

Changes will be more abrupt when an environment undergoes sudden change, or a population is put through a genetic bottleneck.
 Quoting: Spur-Man


I didn't ask when it happens, I asked how.

All you do is say the evidence supports ................. (fill in the blank) but you never provide anything about how that happens. That is the same issue you have with religious folk who simply say they believe it is so and provide what they consider evidence but can't produce anything you would consider as proof.

I am not sure you have said you know anything is true and I am certain you haven't provided any proof regarding our conversations, only evidence.