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NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor

 
oniongrass

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11/27/2018 11:40 AM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
...


So a pound of water is heavier than a pound of ice?
 Quoting: Copperhead


No. But think. Take a peat pot. Suspend it somehow. You can fill it with icicles and it will be fine. It will last a long time. When the ice warms and melts, the water will press on the floor until it drops out.



I know how to say it. Water has an even distribution of weight that ice does not have.

If you tie ice cubes in a balloon and the same volume of water in an identical balloon and hang them on a clothes line, the ice balloon won't hang as low as the water balloon.
 Quoting: Polkahonkus


Liquid water has a greater mass density than ice. Pour water into an ice cube tray and freeze it, and the resulting ice cubes will come up higher than the level you poured the water.

If an iceberg melts in the ocean, it doesn't change the water level AT ALL. That iceberg was showing a bit above the surface (floating) because it's a bit less dense than water. When it melts, all that mass shrinks back into the space occupied below the water by the iceberg.

Archimedes' Principle: a floating object displaces its weight of water.
 Quoting: oniongrass


On a serious note, my area gets very cold only once in a while. When it does, people's pipes freeze. I cannot tell you how many people just cannot understand that the pipes do NOT break when frozen. It's the thawing, when the water expands, that breaks them. My bathtub pipes in the country froze several times each winter. I simply opened the tap and waited. The people I tried to help would call a plumber and pay the weekend or holiday prices to have him come out and thaw their pipes, when they could have just opened the taps and waited.

End rant.
 Quoting: Pooka

You've got it partially backward.

When the pipes freeze, that's when they might break. The water expands when it turns to ice. If it's blocked, it has nowhere to go but busting the pipe. But nothing leaks out yet, because it's all ice and doesn't flow.

Thawing makes the water contract to original volume again. But that's when the water is flowing again and you'll get water coming out of the hole that was made when the pipe was busted earlier.
oniongrass

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11/27/2018 11:47 AM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
...


So a pound of water is heavier than a pound of ice?
 Quoting: Copperhead


No. But think. Take a peat pot. Suspend it somehow. You can fill it with icicles and it will be fine. It will last a long time. When the ice warms and melts, the water will press on the floor until it drops out.



I know how to say it. Water has an even distribution of weight that ice does not have.

If you tie ice cubes in a balloon and the same volume of water in an identical balloon and hang them on a clothes line, the ice balloon won't hang as low as the water balloon.
 Quoting: Polkahonkus


Liquid water has a greater mass density than ice. Pour water into an ice cube tray and freeze it, and the resulting ice cubes will come up higher than the level you poured the water.

If an iceberg melts in the ocean, it doesn't change the water level AT ALL. That iceberg was showing a bit above the surface (floating) because it's a bit less dense than water. When it melts, all that mass shrinks back into the space occupied below the water by the iceberg.

Archimedes' Principle: a floating object displaces its weight of water.
 Quoting: oniongrass


Archimedes never bathed children. They displace their volume of water.
Seriously now. If I have two toy boats, one balsa wood and one lead...I get that. The balsa would get less wet, sink less low. Displace less water.

But objects that do not float displace water based on their volume as well as their weight. I can have a big rock and a Little Rock that weigh the same. If I sink them the big rock displaces more water.

OK. But the ocean isn't a bowl of water. it has its own geography, weather patterns, and water movements like tows and undertows and things I don't know about. Melting the ice changes the water pressure on some points of the floor by changing the structure of the floor.

If you measure the pressure on different points of the ocean floor the measurements change as you take the same volume and weight of water and freeze or melt it.

The suggestion is that the reason global warming isn't raising water levels is because the weight of the water is pressing upon the floor lowering the levels.

The actual total weight volume of ice and water might not change. Transforming some ice to water could change the geographical features of the ocean, the movement of water and the pressure on some parts of the floor.

We could get the whole planet turned inside out. I hope there's time to prepare and it's not just all at once the plains start rolling toward me like clouds or waves and then crunch.


Maybe that makes sense. I can dig out a structure in snow or damp sand, fill them with water but the weighted the water won't weight the same on each part of the floor. Will it?

How is water weight measures in water?

A pound of water is a pound of water and so the deep end of a pool contains more ponds than the shallow end. A person is going to feel more pressure in deep water than in its very confusing. And yeah shallow water.

How DO you measure water pressure on the ocean floor?

Because I think Melting the ice could put more pressure on the ocean floor that ice. The total weight of the ice water doesn't change but the distribution of the weight changes due to all kinds of variables and we're going to punch through the ocean floor and wish we hadnt
 Quoting: Polkahonkus


You're right in that if an object sinks, it's no longer floating and displaces its volume of water, which is less than its weight of water.

(The kids you're bathing are only slightly heavier than water. The human body is mostly a big bag of water. That's why we can swim on top of the water with a bit of skill.)

Melting of floating ice really would have no effect on the level or pressure of the water on the floor. Melting of glaciers, which were on land and flow into the ocean, does increase the water level a little bit. (People with oceanfront property lose a little bit of it. So what?)

And according to the article, it pushes the ocean floor down a little. If the ocean rises 1 inch, maybe the ocean floor goes down 1/10 of an inch.

So what? And if we "punch through" the ocean floor, so what?

We did have a problem punching thru the ocean floor once, but that was from drilling. Deepwater Horizon.
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2018 11:48 AM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
I knew it.

The ocean will press on the ocean floor until it punches through.
 Quoting: Polkahonkus


Then it will drain into salt caverns, flushing them out.
We will install a nice new plasma sun, seed the fertile soil of ancient sea beds in the underground realm with nothing but healthy life giving plants. After that we will leave here and move to our new home.
In vast caverns beneath the sea.


Just like we do every time.
oniongrass

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11/27/2018 11:49 AM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
My God. The stupid on this thread is truly breathtaking.

Move lots of water from continental to oceanic crust, and you get isostatic re-equilibration. Obviously.A shift of 0.08" per year sounds entirely plausible, given that Scotland is still rising 1 mm per year as a rebound after the ice cap was removed 12000 years ago.

I'm just not sure whether it's good or bad...
 Quoting: Wurzel


But I am sure that it's not important either way. Things adjust. If people with beachfront property lose a bit of their property, I don't care.
oniongrass

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11/27/2018 11:50 AM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
I knew it.

The ocean will press on the ocean floor until it punches through.
 Quoting: Polkahonkus


Then it will drain into salt caverns, flushing them out.
We will install a nice new plasma sun, seed the fertile soil of ancient sea beds in the underground realm with nothing but healthy life giving plants. After that we will leave here and move to our new home.
In vast caverns beneath the sea.


Just like we do every time.
 Quoting: Asmodée


Nice try spinning some simple physical facts into a fantasy. Install a new plasma sun??
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2018 05:31 PM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
Nice try spinning some simple physical facts into a fantasy. Install a new plasma sun??
 Quoting: oniongrass


They can order them in box lots from Alibaba soon:

[link to futurism.com (secure)]
hotdogg

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11/27/2018 10:23 PM
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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor

 Quoting: McGuyver


lllaugh
 Quoting: Ostria1


I'd laugh, except for the fact that is character is a LAWMAKER...thinks/dreams up laws, edicts, orders, statutes...that we have to live by/under.
...this is damned frightening...
Polkahonkus

User ID: 36405044
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11/28/2018 12:01 PM

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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
My God. The stupid on this thread is truly breathtaking.

Move lots of water from continental to oceanic crust, and you get isostatic re-equilibration. Obviously.A shift of 0.08" per year sounds entirely plausible, given that Scotland is still rising 1 mm per year as a rebound after the ice cap was removed 12000 years ago.

I'm just not sure whether it's good or bad...
 Quoting: Wurzel


Say isostatic whateverthefuck in words we can understand.

If you can't explain it as you would to a very intelligent ten year old, you don't understand it.
1/4 German, 1/172 Iroquois

It’s pronounced Pocahonky
Or Pokeyhonkus
Or Pokey
Or Pocus
Polkahonkus

User ID: 36405044
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11/28/2018 12:22 PM

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Re: NEWSWEEK: We Are Not Seeing the Predicted Rising Sea Levels From Global Warming Because the Sea is Now Heavier and Pushing Down the Ocean Floor
I knew it.

The ocean will press on the ocean floor until it punches through.
 Quoting: Polkahonkus


Then it will drain into salt caverns, flushing them out.
We will install a nice new plasma sun, seed the fertile soil of ancient sea beds in the underground realm with nothing but healthy life giving plants. After that we will leave here and move to our new home.
In vast caverns beneath the sea.


Just like we do every time.
 Quoting: Asmodée


I don't know how to pack for that. And of course they will leave it to the last minute.
1/4 German, 1/172 Iroquois

It’s pronounced Pocahonky
Or Pokeyhonkus
Or Pokey
Or Pocus