Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,779 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,197,475
Pageviews Today: 2,282,151Threads Today: 824Posts Today: 16,373
10:22 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?

 
T-X 2000
Offer Upgrade

User ID: 69414450
United States
12/18/2018 06:32 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
We already know that Rome introduced plenty of unscriptural error into Christ's church (indulgences, Purgatory, celibacy of priests, the papal system, delaying the reception of the Holy Spirit through their "Confirmation", switching communion to the use of unleavened bread, denying the reception of communion to little children, adding "original sin" and then claiming that Mary was miraculously born without it, claiming that Mary didn't die before being taken to heaven, adding the Cardinals, the Vatican, and the Magisterium to essentially replace the proper hierarchy of deacons, presbyters, and bishops, replacing the liturgy with the Novus Ordo Mass, etc...), but the Reformation was essentially new churches being born out of Rome's errors. Between Zwingli, Calvin, and Luther (the major Reformers), who got it right?

I started looking into this and wondered if there was any other major Christian church beside the Roman Catholic church before the Protestant Reformation. The next largest (almost equal in size at that point) was the Eastern Orthodox church comprised of churches in Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople (now Istanbul, Turkey) and Jerusalem. They've now expanded into Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, and many other places around the world. Curiously enough, they subscribe (even to this day) to none of the errors that Rome subscribed to back when Luther nailed up his "Ninety-five Theses or Disputation on the Power of Indulgences".

Looking at Eastern Orthodoxy, they apparently have Apostolic succession in ALL of their churches for each and every bishop (which is in itself astounding). Even the smaller and earlier breakaways (the Armenian Church, the Coptic Church, and the Oriental Orthodox churches) have doctrinally paralleled the Eastern Orthodox (which some people mistakenly call only the "Greek Orthodox Church"). Those churches have been physically separated for over a thousand years yet look almost identical in every respect.

Why are there so few Eastern Orthodox churches in America? They can best be described as a liturgical-type church with more of a Protestant mindset (they're not legalistic but they still hold to the original 'sacraments' which they simply call "mysteries"). They've maintained everything in the form of the original Apostolic tradition but read MUCH MUCH more from the Bible (Holy Scripture) in all of their services (most of which is beautifully chanted, as opposed to straight reading).

I asked an Orthodox priest about all their glittery vestments and he smiled and simply said they're meant to take away from people concentrating too much on the priests or bishops as individuals as opposed to servants of God and the church. He also pointed out there is a scriptural precedent for each article of clothing they wear and reminded me of the beautiful cloth and adornments of the original Temple and Holy of Holies:

"It contained two cherubim of olive-wood, each 10 cubits high (1 Kings 6:16, 20, 21, 23–28) and each having outspread wings of 10 cubits span, so that, since they stood side by side, the wings touched the wall on either side and met in the center of the room. There was a two-leaved door between it and the Holy Place overlaid with gold (2 Chr. 4:22); also a veil of tekhelet (blue), purple, and crimson and fine linen (2 Chronicles 3:14; compare Exodus 26:33). It had no windows (1 Kings 8:12) and was considered the dwelling-place of the "name" of God." - from Wiki

They still know precisely where some of the original churches were in Jerusalem, where Christianity was actually born on the day of Pentecost back around 30 - 33 A.D. They still have churches in Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria as well as the Great Schism-controversial (according to Rome) Istanbul, which used to be Constantinople (and Byzantium). I asked about the origin of the monks and he said they're simply offshoots of the practices and way of living of John the Baptist (and to a large extent, Jesus, Himself).

They have a site that will find Eastern Orthodox churches around various cities in America. Just plug in the city and state and the search radius (1 to 25 miles or more):

[link to www.assemblyofbishops.org]
What do I want? Desire's irrelevant.. I'm a machine. Your rhetoric will collapse in the wake of hyper-realism, as will your pointless resistance to my ultra-conservative pro-Trump agenda. Your pain is my gain. Your tears are my nectar. Your voice ..mine to suppress into nothingness.

I'll ratwhip yer ignorant ass into submission like an eagle pulverizes a worm to regurgitate into its young. I live to crush the skulls of snowflakes, liberals, and the globalist 'elite' -- to so discombobulate their reality, they wish instead I'd merely tore their heads off and ripped out their spines. Resistance being pointless, their only option's to slit their damn throat.
T-X 2000  (OP)

User ID: 69414450
United States
12/18/2018 06:51 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
Thought a little more info on the fundamental beliefs of the Eastern Orthodox might be in order:

[link to www.goarch.org (secure)]
What do I want? Desire's irrelevant.. I'm a machine. Your rhetoric will collapse in the wake of hyper-realism, as will your pointless resistance to my ultra-conservative pro-Trump agenda. Your pain is my gain. Your tears are my nectar. Your voice ..mine to suppress into nothingness.

I'll ratwhip yer ignorant ass into submission like an eagle pulverizes a worm to regurgitate into its young. I live to crush the skulls of snowflakes, liberals, and the globalist 'elite' -- to so discombobulate their reality, they wish instead I'd merely tore their heads off and ripped out their spines. Resistance being pointless, their only option's to slit their damn throat.
wisconsin

User ID: 77208266
United States
12/18/2018 07:02 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
.
... I watched a vid of an aramaic church ... and it looked EXACTLY what I have seen in the western roman catholic service ...
.
... no difference ...
.
... so think we have to go farther back to the synagogues of Yeshua's time ...
.
.

Our family celebrates The Lord's Feasts:
[link to www.grafted-promise.net]

Fools and the dead don't change their minds. Fools won't and the dead can't.

When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar. You are only telling the world that you fear what he might say. Quoting: CountryWise

Amos 5:13 - Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time.
T-X 2000  (OP)

User ID: 75707927
United States
01/04/2019 05:04 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
.
... I watched a vid of an aramaic church ... and it looked EXACTLY what I have seen in the western roman catholic service ...
.
... no difference ...
.
... so think we have to go farther back to the synagogues of Yeshua's time ...
.
 Quoting: wisconsin


The differences are too subtle for video to convey to the layperson's mind, and it's not just the liturgy where there's these differences.
What do I want? Desire's irrelevant.. I'm a machine. Your rhetoric will collapse in the wake of hyper-realism, as will your pointless resistance to my ultra-conservative pro-Trump agenda. Your pain is my gain. Your tears are my nectar. Your voice ..mine to suppress into nothingness.

I'll ratwhip yer ignorant ass into submission like an eagle pulverizes a worm to regurgitate into its young. I live to crush the skulls of snowflakes, liberals, and the globalist 'elite' -- to so discombobulate their reality, they wish instead I'd merely tore their heads off and ripped out their spines. Resistance being pointless, their only option's to slit their damn throat.
GLP Effect

User ID: 76318428
United States
01/04/2019 05:30 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
OP the Orthodox claim apostolic succession because prior to the schism of 1054, there was only one Catholic church. They broke away from Rome. Rome traces itself back to Christ through apostolic succession of the popes. [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

You can find historical Catholic writings going back to the first century at this link.
[link to www.historyandapologetics.com]
Pray this prayer to blind Satan:
[link to flameoflove.us (secure)]
Ozicell

User ID: 77225748
Australia
01/04/2019 05:57 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
The focus should rather be not on a church or denomination as it is commonly preached, but Jesus Christ's church is based on Spirit and not successional hierarchy, bloodlines or anything of the like!

I have been a Priest in the New Apostolic Church for over 40 years and this church claims a heritage going back to the early 19th century, which, I know is not very long for a church! However, I have also found many of its doctrinal statements to be lacking as well, so although I am still active as a priest, I am not a slave to the doctrine!

The church that Jesus spoke of, was one of spirit, and not a distinct denomination. What man has made of that since - is not what Jesus had intended!

Let me cite two verses from chapter 1 of John's gospel -

Verses
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
and
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is verse 13 that I would like you to focus on and consider because He is speaking here of the 'church' which is born of God or as John would have as said as per his first epistle God is synonymous with the Spirit of Love!

BTW, in verse 12 it reads 'sons of God' but read there - children of God, Family of God or as per John's other description - children of Love or Family of Love! It also refers to those who believe on His Name, so read here - believe on His Nature - which of course is the Spirit of Love, which comes from the Father - OUR Father!

This is the fellowship of the Spirit that Jesus refers to as His church!

For what it's worth - Simply MHO!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Rxel

User ID: 76197442
Lithuania
01/04/2019 06:08 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
Yes there is. There's even alive apostoles from original times.
GLP Effect

User ID: 76318428
United States
01/04/2019 06:17 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
The focus should rather be not on a church or denomination as it is commonly preached, but Jesus Christ's church is based on Spirit and not successional hierarchy, bloodlines or anything of the like!

I have been a Priest in the New Apostolic Church for over 40 years and this church claims a heritage going back to the early 19th century, which, I know is not very long for a church! However, I have also found many of its doctrinal statements to be lacking as well, so although I am still active as a priest, I am not a slave to the doctrine!

The church that Jesus spoke of, was one of spirit, and not a distinct denomination. What man has made of that since - is not what Jesus had intended!

Let me cite two verses from chapter 1 of John's gospel -

Verses
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
and
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is verse 13 that I would like you to focus on and consider because He is speaking here of the 'church' which is born of God or as John would have as said as per his first epistle God is synonymous with the Spirit of Love!

BTW, in verse 12 it reads 'sons of God' but read there - children of God, Family of God or as per John's other description - children of Love or Family of Love! It also refers to those who believe on His Name, so read here - believe on His Nature - which of course is the Spirit of Love, which comes from the Father - OUR Father!

This is the fellowship of the Spirit that Jesus refers to as His church!

For what it's worth - Simply MHO!
 Quoting: Ozicell


Well sure the body of Christ contains all believers in Christ, but we point towards churches like the Catholic church because of apostolic succession and sacramental grace. For example apostolic succession matters because Christ gave the ability to carry out valid sacraments to the original apostles and successors of those apostles carry out those same valid sacraments today. The sacrament of reconciliation (confession) for example was granted by Christ when he breathed on the apostles and gave them the ability to forgive or retain sins. The successors of the apostles (Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests) carry out that same sacrament today. We receive sacramental grace from confession. The sacrament of holy communion is only valid when carried out by an ordained Catholic priest, to other Christians it's just bread and wine, not the body and blood of Christ.
Pray this prayer to blind Satan:
[link to flameoflove.us (secure)]
MissCleo

User ID: 76541118
United States
01/04/2019 06:22 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
Church is not a specific place.

metaphor. they spoke in metaphor.
DPS7

User ID: 77253362
Israel
01/04/2019 06:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
There is no such apostolic succession.

Like it or not, the eastern churches ADMITTED that Rome is the "first among equals".

Still though all recognized the tradition that says it was PAUL who ordained the 2 popes after Peter.

Peter didnt ordain... Peter was not the rock.

Thus... there is no apostolic tradition, thus there is nothing to lean to when it comes to the authenticity of the NT.
All christianity is capable of is bickering over who better follows the contradicting words and versions of the NT.
Rxel

User ID: 76197442
Lithuania
01/04/2019 07:24 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is there a hierarchical link to the ancient Apostolic Christian church (Christ's actual church)?
When you're born, you born into cycle, your destiny is already predestined. illuminati knows, what is inside cycle, but they don't know, what is outside.





GLP