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Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???

 
Goofy for God  (OP)
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
He is a false pastor.

Christ said he came to fulfill the old convant and write

a new one. As a result of that he also said he would write the ten commandments in your heart.

This is how he selects out those who will go to heaven

from the ones that are to be destroyed i.e. both the

body is destroyed and also the soul.

He also has placed something called "the comforter" inside

you who ... surprise surprise, does all the praying

for you because you do not know what to pray for.

rockon
As I have said , he is a false pastor. Stay away from him.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


Thanks for this and yes we are in a sea of false prophets . I see by the final vote once again I will see many GLPers in Heaven one great day applause
Job 37:13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.
Goofy for God  (OP)
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
To me, the ten commandments is like a parent telling a child to NOT touch the hot stove.

Don't commit adultery...because the one cheated on will come and harm you.

Don't bare false wittness...because the one harmed will come and harm you.

Thou shall NOT touch the hot stove!
 Quoting: Mental Case


I like this
Job 37:13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.
freedomsnotfree1

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not profitable. I may do all things, but I will not be brought under the power of any thing."

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Paul, who, through the holy Spirit, brought us the gospel of grace, tells us the body of Christ is NOT under the law... as was the Priesthood...
freedomsnotfree1
Jenuine Human

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01/09/2019 07:21 AM

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


The above IS the 10 commandments.
 Quoting: Jenuine Human


HOW TO LOVE 'GOD'

You shall have no other gods before Me.

You shall make no idols or bow down before them.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Keep the Sabbath day holy.


HOW TO LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR

Honor your father and your mother.

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery. (Adulterate=race, gmo, pharmakia)

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet. (including infidelity)
 Quoting: janedoenut


Yes.
Magna Cacca

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01/09/2019 07:27 AM

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Commandments stand but now you can get to heaven in another way, too.

So, I guess the answer depends on how you define "did away".

Jesus sort of did them away by opening a shortcut. You end up breaking the commandments but if you believe in Jesus, you will not be judged - Jesus is judged on your behalf and found sinless. Therefore you will be considered sinless, too.

The commandments and the Law in general have not been revoked in any way, though. So, if you do not accept Jesus as your stand-in at the judgement, you will be judged, instead.

Anyway, that's the theory.

Last Edited by Magna Cacca on 01/09/2019 07:27 AM
Join the GLP Red Team with me!
Baloney

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
But I do find those who follow urantia/phony phoenix journals to be laughable.
 Quoting: Baloney
20 years ago, while you were laughing, Jesus wrote:
 Quoting: hillbilly


Jesus didn't write the phoenix journals. Jesus is the only begotten son, not one of many sons.

the phoenix journals.....just as much bunk as urantia book......laugh laugh laugh
Baloney

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
But I do find those who follow urantia/phony phoenix journals to be laughable.
 Quoting: Baloney
20 years ago, while you were laughing, Jesus wrote:
 Quoting: hillbilly


Jesus didn't write the phoenix journals, not 20 years ago, not ever.

Jesus is the only begotten son, not one of many sons The phoenix journal's Esu Immanuel sananda.....aka michael aton....aka michael of nebadon is NOT Jesus, and NOT Jesus reincarnated.

the phoenix journals.....just as much phony, new-age junk as urantia book......laugh laugh laugh
 Quoting: Baloney
daughter in NYC

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
10 Commandments are still valid and solid. They have to be as Jesus said to hang the new Commandment of Love on them!

A good gauge of their importance is how vehemently the devil is trying to eliminate them.......
daughter in NYC
tkwasny

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
The Christ is the created shortcut Door that has the POTENTIAL to serve as your escape route to exit your conception-to-death space-time envelope (underworld) all are locked within. ALL are locked within.
Lester

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
What you people CHOOSE To Believe means Nothing!

Not if you can't ACT on your Belief and Faith...


If you search the KJV for The Gospel usage of the word 'MUST', there are about 35-40 instances of its use. Aside from Jesus Witnessing that HE Must Do Father's Will, THE ONLY use of the word MUST In The Gospel, AS A DIRECTIVE, is in John 3:7 and verse 14 which ties to verse 7...
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


"...Ye MUST Be Born-Again" & "...So MUST The Son Of Man Be Lifted Up".

In our surrender Unto The Father, we Acknowledge that we KNOW WHO Christ Jesus IS.... Thus, Lifting-Up The Son Of Man.



So, While Christ Witnesses "Ye MUST Be Born-Again", you're busy debating The Law's Application to Christian Life...

Father's Witness of The Born-Again Life Tells us that By Receiving our New Heart Of HIS Flesh we are Enabled to KNOW and DO HIS Will and "Keep MY Statutes".

St. John Witnesses that IF you're one who Is Born-Again, "You HAVE An Unction From The Holy One and KNOW ALL Things."

Like Nicodemus in John 3, a "master of israel" has no ability to understand Jesus' Witness "MUST Be Born-Again", how could you not Know Father Delivers Born-Agains From sin?

Sinning is a conscious decision. God The Holy Spirit Dwelling Within us Gives us Witness if we have occasion to consider sin. If we stay TRUE to our surrender, we choose to Trust God and not commit sin...

You're talking "The Law"... Well, if there was ANY way for men to "keep The Law", Father would not need to Enable Us To "Walk In HIS Statutes"...'

If Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again, (the only Born-Again there is), and Thereby Enabled to BE Guided By God Through Life and KNOWING/DOING HIS Will; there is NO Purpose to arguing about "The Law".


Of course, THIS IS Laodicea... Our generation IS Laodicean... Most Christians are "lukewarm" Jesus Witnesses in Revelation ch 3. They are 'almost' Acceptable To God. Almost "hot" as Jesus Says... They're just not Born-Again.

Intellectual debate or syllogistic argument is a function of intellect. Christ Witnesses HE Seeks ONLY Those Who HEAR/SEE The Gospel with their heart...

In These Final Moments, what matters is "Have you Come Unto The Father in surrender of self and Been Given your NEW Heart of HIS Flesh"?

What Matters in life, If you Claim God, is your answering HIS Call....


In Matt 24:21-24, Jesus Witnesses about The Very Elect. The Days will be shortened "For Their Sake" and The Very Elect cannot be deceived, while all others will suffer deception.

The Very Elect are they/we who CHOSE to Trust God Fully and Gave HIM our lives. Born-Agains...

ONLY God The Father Can Deliver us from our carnal, stony-heart... This is WHY we MUST Be Born-Again, to Live In and With HIM and KNOW and DO HIS Will. All our conjecture is vanquished once we KNOW HIM! When we are Born-Again ALL our confusion is removed, We KNOW We Were IN HIS Presence and that Father-God Accepted Our Offering.

"I AM the Light, the Truth, and the Way: No man Cometh Unto The Father But BY ME!" John 14:6

Coming Unto The Father is how we Answer The Call HE Placed Upon Our heart...

IF you can Trust HIM Fully with all you are, and all you ever will be; then Time To Tell HIM So! Time to Take Action and make your surrender of self...

ONLY Through HIM are we Brought Into Relationship.

Only when we Answer HIS Call do we Acknowledge The Gospel and Jesus Our Redeemer. Only by Coming Unto The Father do we do the "work" that Proves Our Faith was Alive, not dead.

These ARE The Final Moments...
If you would BE HIS, Time To Tell HIM So...


Maranatha!!!
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
He is a false pastor.

Christ said he came to fulfill the old convant and write

a new one. As a result of that he also said he would write the ten commandments in your heart.

This is how he selects out those who will go to heaven

from the ones that are to be destroyed i.e. both the

body is destroyed and also the soul.

He also has placed something called "the comforter" inside

you who ... surprise surprise, does all the praying

for you because you do not know what to pray for.

rockon
As I have said , he is a false pastor. Stay away from him.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


Thanks for this and yes we are in a sea of false prophets . I see by the final vote once again I will see many GLPers in Heaven one great day applause
 Quoting: Goofy for God

These are Jesus's own words. It could not be more clear. God does not change no matter what this false teacher says. While Christians are under the new covenant thru Christ, God's laws still stand.

Matthew 5:17-20

The Fulfillment of the Law

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
LoneStarRising
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Sounds like Pastor Andy is justifying all his sinning...

probably nailing half the Choir (both men and women) probably STEALING MONEY from the collection plate

probably having abortions KILLING babies of the neighbors wives he's coveting and nailing.


See this NEW COVENANT allows him to SIN AWAY and just ask forgiveness....the old adage "its easier to as forgiveness than permission"


Pretty sure the 10 Commandments stand up today as they did thousands of years ago.

Last Edited by JFKdemocrat on 01/09/2019 01:26 PM
time to drain the swamp, release ALL OBOZO RECORDS.
RiZE

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
But I do find those who follow urantia/phony phoenix journals to be laughable.
 Quoting: Baloney
20 years ago, while you were laughing, Jesus wrote:
 Quoting: hillbilly


Jesus didn't write the phoenix journals. Jesus is the only begotten son, not one of many sons.

the phoenix journals.....just as much bunk as urantia book......laugh laugh laugh
 Quoting: Baloney


Jesus said in revelation to not ADD or take away from the book. He said everything he needed to 2000 years ago. Why would he come back 1986 years later and say: Hey wait I forgot to add something. If he did that it would suggest he made an error and God nor his only beggoten Son do not make mistakes as they are prefect. He also said auch things so when people come along and say its a new revelaton they are exposed as fakes.
Servant of The Most High

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Lester

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Doesn't really matter WHAT you "believe"...

The Matt 7:22 Christians Believed they were Kewl with God, because they did "Miracles, Cast-Out demons, and Prophesied" In Jesus' Name.

Christ Says in verse 21 that HE ONLY KNOWS those persons "Who DO The Will Of MY Father".

Despite the Matt 7:22 super-Christians having done all they did THROUGH Jesus' Name, they never Trusted God Enough To GIVE HIM their all... They remained carnal-hearted, with what Father Calls in Ezk 36:26 "hearts of STONE". Not Being Born-Agains, they never Received The NEW HEART OF Flesh (Father's Flesh!) that HE Witnesses HE WILL GIVE Us.


You want to "believe" what you choose to rationalize and find "comfortable" enough? Then WHY would you ever Take Action to manifest your heart Unto The Father?

You All never have, so... Evidently, you are comfortable in your Alienation From Father, and plainly resist The Call Father PUT ON Your heart...


Christ's Witness that God Will REJECT those who didn't Come Unto HIM is Plainly Given 4x (Matt 7:21-23, Luke 13:22-28, Matt 22:1-14, & Rev 3:15-17).

ONLY ONCE Does Jesus Witness with the commanding "Ye MUST Be Born-Again!" John 3:7



Really, all this sad Laodicean shit comes about because YOU (Most Laodiceans) trust your divinity-degreed, not Born-Again, Preachers/Teachers/Ministers MORE than you do God!

Think you're gonna be able to sue them for professional malpractice? Not from the grave, which is where it will matter...


Paul Witnesses: "Christ Came To Save Sinners, among whom I am chief!"
Jesus Witnesses "... They that are whole have no need of The Physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."


Believe you are "righteous"?
So much Witness in The Gospels that this is not the case...

Had you Been Delivered from your Ezk 36:26 "heart of stone", you would KNOW how wretched you are... To KNOW this is to literally weep for the impact all your "good works" had upon others you never Knew About... Such IS The Cause of sin in this world, and the pain & suffering of others.

But, here's the deal: Your Preacher etc is just as Clueless as you are! Your following an Alienated clown who is not only apart from God, but lies about it to make profit from you.

Gonna argue with God that your alienation from HIM wasn't your conscious decision? That had you been led in your Faith by one who Knew HIM, you would have Answered HIS Call?

Sorry Charlie... Christ's Witness is that Father Rejects those HE Don't Know....

Almost 15yrs that I have been giving witness here...
The Witness of Time To Come Unto The Father.


Sadly, Laodiceans just can't bring themselves to Trust HIM.
The Laodicean bullshit promulgated and spread by the divinity-degreed liars is what they/you choose to believe and trust.

Paul Witnesses to Timothy in 2nd Tim 2:6 that those who would Preach/Teach/Minister "Ought First BE Partakers Of The Fruits"; meaning they should be Ezk 36:26-27 Born-Agains... Yet, in this Laodicean Church Age, they are not! As result, those you look to for guidance in God's Truth, do not have it; but make pretense that they do... They have betrayed their "calling" if they had one; and they have betrayed you...

Betrayal is the theme of moment on so many fronts in this life...

Yet, God IS Standfast! A Bulwark Never Changing! A Mighty Fortress IS Our God!!! Martin Luther was The Real Deal... The Reformation occured so that once again, Men Would Know that God Want's To KNOW Us Personally and Directly.

Witness is sharing with others, what a Born-Again Has Been Given to SEE and KNOW. Call it Testimony if you prefer. It's purpose is to Share God's Truth and Encourage others to Come Unto The Father. Seeking HIM in earnest and sincere prayer and making their Leap Of Faith, which is to say their manifestation of their Faith into surrender of all they are and ever will be.

It doesn't matter what you Believe, unless you're just dysfunctional. What matters is What/WHO You KNOW. When you Come Unto The Father, HE Brings You Into HIS Accord and you KNOW HIM Personally and Directly; belief is then superseded by KNOWING...

This IS The Life Christ Died To Enable For Us, Through HIS Father's Will. KNOWING God, HIS Reality, HIS Will and Having Been Enabled To DO IT! It's all there in John ch 17; Jesus' Witness of The Born-Again Life. Living life With HIM and The Father... Now and Forever...


In These Final Moments though, there will be an Ending Of The AGE Of Faith. Revelation 14:7 Once this occurs, there will be no more Coming Unto The Father.


If you Would BE HIS, time to act on the Belief you claim to have. Time to Manifest Your Heart Unto Father-God and allow HIS Renewal and Regeneration to Make You A New Person! Time to Prove that your Faith is alive, not dead.

Today could be That Day for you. Take a few moments to Open Your Heart Fully and Give Your All To God!
Acknowledge Christ Jesus,
Admit and Repent of your sins,
Claim your share of Father's Infinite Mercy & Grace,
Give HIM your life, all of it; good and bad, and accept HIS Will for you from here on,
Ask HIM to Send you HIS Holy Spirit to Guide your life.

HE Will if you are sincere and honest.

maranatha!!!
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


The above IS the 10 commandments.
 Quoting: Jenuine Human



Excellent. The first 4 are man's relationship to God .The remaining 6 are mans relationship to his fellow man. The two great commandments that Jesus spoke of are indeed....THE TEN COMANDMENTS! The new testament is concealed in the old Testament....and the old testament is revealed in the New Testament. All is one seamless whole. What a Beautiful book!
Muscles
rod777

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
YOU underestimate the power of the cross and the blood.

Not only the 10, but it did away with the penalty and power of sin....

WHY do you think the NT addresses the new church and says hey you guys are being to wild at your love feasts...

BECAUSE they understood the power of grace, and the cross, and that sin and acts of sin, did not apply to them.

But Paul says for the sake of the weak, do not sin...



Last Edited by rod777 on 01/11/2019 02:54 PM
Lester

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
YOU underestimate the power of the cross and the blood.

Not only the 10, but it did away with the penalty and power of sin....

WHY do you think the NT addresses the new church and says hey you guys are being to wild at your love feasts...

BECAUSE they understood the power of grace, and the cross, and that sin and acts of sin, did not apply to them.

But Paul says for the sake of the weak, do not sin...


 Quoting: rod777


Here is Witness from St. John that refutes the bullshit you posted above....

From 1st John 2
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


20. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.


27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Christ Died so that the stain of Original sin and all other sin would be Removed From Us WHEN WE Make Our Surrender Unto The Father.


IF you never DO Come Unto The Father, Jesus' Sacrifice on calvary means NOTHING in context of your life...



John Witnesses that those "who went out from us, to make manifest that they weren't Of Us" are Christians who could not Make Their Surrender. They ARE anti-Christs...
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


The Power of Grace and God's Love does not Forgive what we choose not to repent from. Father's Infinite Mercy and Grace IS What Motivated HIM To Send Christ Jesus...


Were your position even halfway True, there would be no Witness in Scripture of Christians Being REJECTED. There would be no Witness from Christ Jesus that "No man Cometh Unto The Father but BY ME!"

HIS Sacrifice Enables Father to Receive Us when we Come Unto HIM; Father Cannot Look Upon sin... So HE Sent Christ Jesus...

The cross is a hateful thing.
HIS Murder is a hateful thing...

To celebrate the events of HIS Suffering and death is despicable. We don't celebrate the suffering at The Alamo, but we do revere the Sacrifice.

Your postulations are in enmity to The Gospel and Father's Will.
ChivalryKnight
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Also , know we should not make monuments of anything hiding
 Quoting: Goofy for God


I believe altars and memorials are well to observe, especially those our fathers set we are not to remove the ancient landmarks (Proverbs)

With that said I think it is not well advised to make graven images incorporated into memorials (ie. plaques, and historical markers)

Trying to rightly divide the word.

Statues are spirit magnets IMHO.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Jefferson

Laughter is health to the bones so just do it!
RiZE

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
YOU underestimate the power of the cross and the blood.

Not only the 10, but it did away with the penalty and power of sin....

WHY do you think the NT addresses the new church and says hey you guys are being to wild at your love feasts...

BECAUSE they understood the power of grace, and the cross, and that sin and acts of sin, did not apply to them.

But Paul says for the sake of the weak, do not sin...


 Quoting: rod777


We all stumble but to claim Christ yet still do abominable things anyways thinking : its okay Jesus has me covered! Is this a genuine follower? Is his heart and temple a vessel for His spirit? Tough questions have tough answers and I for one do not chance my salvation on the views of men. Rewards will await those who walk in his statutes and many will be turned away for not searching hernestly. Salvation is not gained by a sentence and a prayer. Good is not done by counting numbers of people you claim you have saved I call that boasting.
Servant of The Most High

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Neenerner

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Christians should quit erecting Ten Commandments displays and should instead consider making monuments dedicated to the Sermon on the Mount, popular pastor Andy Stanley said.

In a column published by Relevant Magazine, the North Point Community Church pastor argued that the Ten Commandments are “the old covenant” and no longer apply to believers.



[link to www.christianpost.com (secure)]



33,000 every Sunday , just wow eqlflash
 Quoting: Goofy for God


All those who follow Christ should have the 10 commandments written on their hearts and live by them. We of course are not perfect as if we were we wouldnt be in need of slavation. Since we are covered by the blood of Christ does this mean we can continue to cruise around being dissobedient? Its up to you really. Once we recieve the holy spirit we naturaly turn away from sin and strive to follow Gods law. Becoming an adopted child of God is a long at times perilous road but with persiverance and faith we find truth. Dark days lie ahead and only with eachothers encouragement and love we move forwards to hopefully see Jesus in our time. It is a truely marvelous time we live in.
 Quoting: RiZE


Thats what Im Talkin a about! Very well said. Thank you.
Neenerner
DGN
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
The only thing that actually changed was ending the sabbath because non-gentile Christians live and work in different cultures making the sabbath impractical. Everything else will always apply.
"Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ" Col2:16
Lester

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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
YOU underestimate the power of the cross and the blood.

Not only the 10, but it did away with the penalty and power of sin....

WHY do you think the NT addresses the new church and says hey you guys are being to wild at your love feasts...

BECAUSE they understood the power of grace, and the cross, and that sin and acts of sin, did not apply to them.

But Paul says for the sake of the weak, do not sin...


 Quoting: rod777


We all stumble but to claim Christ yet still do abominable things anyways thinking : its okay Jesus has me covered! Is this a genuine follower? Is his heart and temple a vessel for His spirit? Tough questions have tough answers and I for one do not chance my salvation on the views of men. Rewards will await those who walk in his statutes and many will be turned away for not searching hernestly. Salvation is not gained by a sentence and a prayer. Good is not done by counting numbers of people you claim you have saved I call that boasting.
 Quoting: RiZE


A "genuine follower"?
Doesn't much matter how you characterize yourself, or others. If you're unwilling to Answer Father's Call, you are a Failed-Vessel...

This ain't horseshoes; there are no points for being "almost" Born-Again. Such is Jesus' Witness in Rev ch 3 to The Church Of Laodicea.... The Church of the Final Days... Church of Our Time....
14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15. I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Nobody "saves" anyone. Christ Redeemed Us ALL, but it is ONLY BY Surrendering Self UNTO The Father that we Make Manifest Our Love For HIM.

In My Fair Lady, the song goes "Don't Speak Of Love: SHOW ME!"

We PROVE our Love and Devotion Unto The Father Through Trusting HIM Fully with all we are and all we ever will be! Such IS Our Manifestation of Heart.

Only BY Coming Unto HIM are we Delivered from our carnal, stony-heart. From Ezekiel ch 36;
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


If you tire of "stumbling", failing and disappointment; tire of hating your failures.... Just Come Unto The Father make your Leap Of Faith... ONLY HE IS Worthy of our Complete Love and Trust....

Faith w/o works (action) is dead!
Failing to Answer HIS Call means your Faith never was...

If you would BE HIS, Time To Tell HIM So...
rod777

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01/11/2019 04:06 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
YOU underestimate the power of the cross and the blood.

Not only the 10, but it did away with the penalty and power of sin....

WHY do you think the NT addresses the new church and says hey you guys are being to wild at your love feasts...

BECAUSE they understood the power of grace, and the cross, and that sin and acts of sin, did not apply to them.

But Paul says for the sake of the weak, do not sin...


 Quoting: rod777


We all stumble but to claim Christ yet still do abominable things anyways thinking : its okay Jesus has me covered! Is this a genuine follower? Is his heart and temple a vessel for His spirit? Tough questions have tough answers and I for one do not chance my salvation on the views of men. Rewards will await those who walk in his statutes and many will be turned away for not searching hernestly. Salvation is not gained by a sentence and a prayer. Good is not done by counting numbers of people you claim you have saved I call that boasting.
 Quoting: RiZE



I do not advocate sin, that is NOT what I said. IF that is in your mind, you have misunderstood what I wrote.
rod777

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01/11/2019 04:14 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
YOU underestimate the power of the cross and the blood.

Not only the 10, but it did away with the penalty and power of sin....

WHY do you think the NT addresses the new church and says hey you guys are being to wild at your love feasts...

BECAUSE they understood the power of grace, and the cross, and that sin and acts of sin, did not apply to them.

But Paul says for the sake of the weak, do not sin...


 Quoting: rod777


Here is Witness from St. John that refutes the bullshit you posted above....

From 1st John 2
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


20. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.


27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Christ Died so that the stain of Original sin and all other sin would be Removed From Us WHEN WE Make Our Surrender Unto The Father.


IF you never DO Come Unto The Father, Jesus' Sacrifice on calvary means NOTHING in context of your life...



John Witnesses that those "who went out from us, to make manifest that they weren't Of Us" are Christians who could not Make Their Surrender. They ARE anti-Christs...
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


The Power of Grace and God's Love does not Forgive what we choose not to repent from. Father's Infinite Mercy and Grace IS What Motivated HIM To Send Christ Jesus...


Were your position even halfway True, there would be no Witness in Scripture of Christians Being REJECTED. There would be no Witness from Christ Jesus that "No man Cometh Unto The Father but BY ME!"

HIS Sacrifice Enables Father to Receive Us when we Come Unto HIM; Father Cannot Look Upon sin... So HE Sent Christ Jesus...

The cross is a hateful thing.
HIS Murder is a hateful thing...

To celebrate the events of HIS Suffering and death is despicable. We don't celebrate the suffering at The Alamo, but we do revere the Sacrifice.

Your postulations are in enmity to The Gospel and Father's Will.
 Quoting: Lester




Lester I agree with everything you posted, especially the scriptures. I think you are reading into my bullshit.

I do not promote or advocate sin.

What I am saying is WE have an inheritance. We are children, not servants in the fathers house.

The power and penalty of sin has been ruined on the cross.

The NT church understood this grace, and Paul admonished them saying "Should WE continue in sin that grace may abound as some falsely claim about us NO"....

And to another he said "Eating meat sacrificed to an idol is NOTHING"...BUT for the sake of a weak brother I do not do so.

This takes us far away from thinking we must obey any 10 commandments to be saved as many believe...WHY, because Paul also says in Romans "The law (all of it) led us to grace"


Last Edited by rod777 on 01/11/2019 04:15 PM
Lester

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01/11/2019 04:22 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
The only thing that actually changed was ending the sabbath because non-gentile Christians live and work in different cultures making the sabbath impractical. Everything else will always apply.
"Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ" Col2:16
 Quoting: DGN


More bullshit...
God Did NOT allow Sabbath observation to change to sunday. It's just another biproduct of men who make "religion" instead of Following God's Guidance.

Above is a beautiful example of conjecture and rationalization.


Religion is bullshit. St. John Witnesses "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

You don't Trust HIM, you don't got HIS Anointing...
You Trust men who defined your "religion".

"Impractical"? To those not willing to Trust HIM Fully, it's all "impractical"... You laugh and find humor in others practices and testimony. But have NO Reason to do so. Were you yourself Born-Again, you would Understand and not be contemptuous, Because You'd Remember What Father-God DELIVERED you from...


These ARE The Final Moments!
Either we're Of-HIM or we're apart, alienated From HIM...

John ch 17 is Jesus' Witness of The Born-Again Life. It's the ONLY Witness HE Gave As A Prayer! Might Be Important! Yet so few pious Christains even know of it... They read there, but cannot SEE HIM Witnessing their life...

We MUST BE Enabled BY God The Father To KNOW and DO HIS Will!

"Marvel not that I Say unto you, Ye MUST Be Born-Again!" John 3:7

Everytime someone in Authority within my life has said "You MUST"; I paid attention, or suffered the consequences...


The Consequence of not Being Born-Again is getting Told, "Depart from ME, you who work iniquity: I KNOW YOU NOT!"

If you Claim HIM, Say You Love HIM Above All Else...
Prove IT! Prove your Love and Trust... Give HIM Your ALL!


Maranatha!!!
Lester

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01/11/2019 04:37 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Lester I agree with everything you posted, especially the scriptures. I think you are reading into my bullshit.

I do not promote or advocate sin.

What I am saying is WE have an inheritance. We are children, not servants in the fathers house.

The power and penalty of sin has been ruined on the cross.

The NT church understood this grace, and Paul admonished them saying "Should WE continue in sin that grace may abound as some falsely claim about us NO"....

And to another he said "Eating meat sacrificed to an idol is NOTHING"...BUT for the sake of a weak brother I do not do so.

This takes us far away from thinking we must obey any 10 commandments to be saved as many believe...WHY, because Paul also says in Romans "The law (all of it) led us to grace"

 Quoting: rod777


In TRUTH, we have Promise of Being Made Inheritors.
The penalty of sin? Means WHAT IF We Don't Manifest Our Heart Unto The Father???

Maybe this matters to a catholic, but I was Delivered from that cult of error.


As far as St. Paul goes, He Witnesses in Hebrews 12:5-10 about those Unwilling To Submit To Father's Chastisement and Guidance. Paul Says those unwilling are "Bastards, not Sons"...
5. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10. For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.


I Will Testify to you that Until We ARE Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again, We Cannot Keep The Commandments.

Until we are Delivered from our carnal-heart, we Cannot Put God First... By Coming Unto The Father, we are Committed to Putting God First...

All About Our Heart! If We Love God Enough to Give HIM Our All, we've Manifested our heart Unto HIM and Trusted HIM with all we are and all we ever will be.

Who else in life can we Trust more than God?
Your carnal-heart will have lots of answers...

Coming Unto The Father happens because you have heart For HIM and seize the moment and Take Action (to make your surrender).

THIS IS What Christ Was Sent To Enable and THIS Is How We Answer Father's Call...

You can agree with whatever I write and whichever Scriptures are posted, but KNOWING HIM and Being Able To Witness/Testify That HE Delivered you Into Life With and Through HIM is WHAT MATTERS!
rod777

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01/11/2019 05:04 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
Lester I agree with everything you posted, especially the scriptures. I think you are reading into my bullshit.

I do not promote or advocate sin.

What I am saying is WE have an inheritance. We are children, not servants in the fathers house.

The power and penalty of sin has been ruined on the cross.

The NT church understood this grace, and Paul admonished them saying "Should WE continue in sin that grace may abound as some falsely claim about us NO"....

And to another he said "Eating meat sacrificed to an idol is NOTHING"...BUT for the sake of a weak brother I do not do so.

This takes us far away from thinking we must obey any 10 commandments to be saved as many believe...WHY, because Paul also says in Romans "The law (all of it) led us to grace"

 Quoting: rod777


In TRUTH, we have Promise of Being Made Inheritors.
The penalty of sin? Means WHAT IF We Don't Manifest Our Heart Unto The Father???

Maybe this matters to a catholic, but I was Delivered from that cult of error.


As far as St. Paul goes, He Witnesses in Hebrews 12:5-10 about those Unwilling To Submit To Father's Chastisement and Guidance. Paul Says those unwilling are "Bastards, not Sons"...
5. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10. For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.


I Will Testify to you that Until We ARE Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again, We Cannot Keep The Commandments.

Until we are Delivered from our carnal-heart, we Cannot Put God First... By Coming Unto The Father, we are Committed to Putting God First...

All About Our Heart! If We Love God Enough to Give HIM Our All, we've Manifested our heart Unto HIM and Trusted HIM with all we are and all we ever will be.

Who else in life can we Trust more than God?
Your carnal-heart will have lots of answers...

Coming Unto The Father happens because you have heart For HIM and seize the moment and Take Action (to make your surrender).

THIS IS What Christ Was Sent To Enable and THIS Is How We Answer Father's Call...

You can agree with whatever I write and whichever Scriptures are posted, but KNOWING HIM and Being Able To Witness/Testify That HE Delivered you Into Life With and Through HIM is WHAT MATTERS!
 Quoting: Lester



Lester:

I believe for those who have surrendered to the Spirit of Christ, the only commands we obey are the ones He speaks to us. This is a hidden way, for those who know Him.

Anyone can go to church, anyone can read the book, anyone can follow observances, anyone can quote scripture, anyone can called themselves a pastor (many do without being called and chosen), many pretend to be Christians, many think they are believers....Many can claim to follow and be taught of Christ, as Paul says examine yourselves, if you have been taught by Him....

BUT for those who truly know Him, they obey His voice, His leadings, and are His sheep, even IF their life doesn't add up to our expectations. God knows those who are His, and yes he chastises, and conforms us to Christ.
Lester

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01/11/2019 06:05 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
I believe for those who have surrendered to the Spirit of Christ, the only commands we obey are the ones He speaks to us. This is a hidden way, for those who know Him.

Anyone can go to church, anyone can read the book, anyone can follow observances, anyone can quote scripture, anyone can called themselves a pastor (many do without being called and chosen), many pretend to be Christians, many think they are believers....Many can claim to follow and be taught of Christ, as Paul says examine yourselves, if you have been taught by Him....

BUT for those who truly know Him, they obey His voice, His leadings, and are His sheep, even IF their life doesn't add up to our expectations. God knows those who are His, and yes he chastises, and conforms us to Christ.
 Quoting: rod777


There's no Spirit of Christ to surrender to.

Jesus Says, "...No man Cometh Unto The Father but BY ME!" in John 14:6... There's no misunderstanding each Person Of The Holy Trinity.

As to your "Beliefs"... Until you Come Unto The Father, what you have are rationalizations.

Jesus IS The WAY Unto The Father... Everything Of-Christ IS PER THE FATHER'S WILL...

Consider this from Matthew ch 19:
16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

ONLY Way To "Keep The Commandments" is By Being Born-Again; and only The Father Can Give Us "A New Heart Of HIS Flesh".


No point or reason to argue here, but others read and might consider...

IF Father-God Put KNOWLEDGE Upon your heart as to WHO Christ Jesus IS, then HE (Father) Called You To Come Unto HIM and Be Born-Again...

If We LOVE HIM and Trust HIM Fuly, to Answer HIS Call, we Seek HIM In earnest and sincere prayer and Give HIM all we are and all we ever will be. Surrender of self and Acceptance-Seeking OF HIS Will rather than our own.

There's no Coming Unto Jesus.
Christ Brought The Gospel and Made Our Way Unto The Father Through HIS Sacrifice; but even With HIM, HIS Father IS EVERYTHING! Same To Us; Father IS EVERYTHING!

When Born-Again we Receive what St. John Witnesses Of, "...You Have An Unction From The Holy One, and KNOW All Things!"

When I Gave my life Unto The Father, I told HIM that although I Knew Jesus as Our Redeemer and Saviour, but that I didn't Know How HE Fit Into Father's Plan (raised & educated catholic, remember!)... I told Father that I was giving my life to HIM, YahWeh, Jehovah, Elohim, Abba....

Can't KNOW anything Of-HIM until you are Brought Into HIS Accord. I didn't KNOW anything, but I Knew WHO God The Father IS and WHO Christ Jesus IS...

Anyway... Final Moments, Rod...
Consider them from Matt 7:21-22 who "Did Miracles, Cast-Out demons, and Prophesied" IN HIS Name.... They "did" all those Mighty Works; or so they thought and so they reminded Jesus of it to try and gain entry into Heaven...

Yet, HE Rejects them! "Depart from ME, you who work iniquity: I KNOW YOU NOT!"

In verse 21 HE Says HE ONLY KNOWS those "Who DO The Will Of MY Father".... That only happens when we are Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again. IT'S Right There, Father's Witness Given By HIS Prophet...

The WHOLE Purpose of Christianity IS Witnessed by Jesus in Matt 22:1-14 "The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto A King WHO Made A Wedding Feast For HIS Son"... No mention of The Son in this parable... It's ALL about Answering The King's Invitation to Attend The Wedding Feast and how ALL HIS Originally Intended "guests" spurned HIS Invitation and spitefully slew HIS Servants... So The King's Servants found "other" guests...

"For many were Called, but few are Chosen!" is the ending verse Witness. Christ Is Saying There that few of those Chosen To Be Invited, Elected To Come...

Born-Agains are those Jesus Witnesses Of as The Very Elect.

If we fail to Answer Father's Call, we are simply failed Vessels.
Lester

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01/11/2019 06:24 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
When we Choose-Elect to Trust God Fully and Give HIM our life; We Die Unto This World.

Hidden life, Rod?
Living In and With The Father is not understood by those who haven't Come Unto HIM.

The carnal-heart raises every obstacle it can to prevent us from Coming Unto The Father. It is only Vanquished By Father when we make our Leap Of Faith. We have to be committed Unto HIM. This takes brokenness. We realize how empty our life is, even when things go right...

Two kinds of Christians that Come Unto The Father: Purehearts and sinners. The Pureheart has tried everything to Come Unto Father and get Relationship With HIM... Finally, he/she, capitulates and Gives Up Their ALL and is Brought Into HIS Presence. The sinner has reached their bottom, maybe not literally, but is broken with the failures of their life; so he/she Gives Their AlL Unto The Father because HE IS Their ONLY HOPE! Both are broken and Know ONLY Relationship With Father-God Can Make Their Life Right!

If you Follow Christ, eventually you have to manifest your heart Unto The Father. It is The WHY Of The Gospel and HIS Coming Into The world...



Nothing Else Matters in the scope of our lives, except Answering Father's Call.

You either realize my witness is True, or you're gonna still be searching. If still searching, try asking Father-God... Everything Is About HIM, and HE Has ALL The Answers...


Maranatha!!!
rod777

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01/11/2019 06:29 PM
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Re: Do You Believe The Cross Did Away With The Ten Commandments ???
I believe for those who have surrendered to the Spirit of Christ, the only commands we obey are the ones He speaks to us. This is a hidden way, for those who know Him.

Anyone can go to church, anyone can read the book, anyone can follow observances, anyone can quote scripture, anyone can called themselves a pastor (many do without being called and chosen), many pretend to be Christians, many think they are believers....Many can claim to follow and be taught of Christ, as Paul says examine yourselves, if you have been taught by Him....

BUT for those who truly know Him, they obey His voice, His leadings, and are His sheep, even IF their life doesn't add up to our expectations. God knows those who are His, and yes he chastises, and conforms us to Christ.
 Quoting: rod777


There's no Spirit of Christ to surrender to.

Jesus Says, "...No man Cometh Unto The Father but BY ME!" in John 14:6... There's no misunderstanding each Person Of The Holy Trinity.

As to your "Beliefs"... Until you Come Unto The Father, what you have are rationalizations.

Jesus IS The WAY Unto The Father... Everything Of-Christ IS PER THE FATHER'S WILL...

Consider this from Matthew ch 19:
16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

ONLY Way To "Keep The Commandments" is By Being Born-Again; and only The Father Can Give Us "A New Heart Of HIS Flesh".


No point or reason to argue here, but others read and might consider...

IF Father-God Put KNOWLEDGE Upon your heart as to WHO Christ Jesus IS, then HE (Father) Called You To Come Unto HIM and Be Born-Again...

If We LOVE HIM and Trust HIM Fuly, to Answer HIS Call, we Seek HIM In earnest and sincere prayer and Give HIM all we are and all we ever will be. Surrender of self and Acceptance-Seeking OF HIS Will rather than our own.

There's no Coming Unto Jesus.
Christ Brought The Gospel and Made Our Way Unto The Father Through HIS Sacrifice; but even With HIM, HIS Father IS EVERYTHING! Same To Us; Father IS EVERYTHING!

When Born-Again we Receive what St. John Witnesses Of, "...You Have An Unction From The Holy One, and KNOW All Things!"

When I Gave my life Unto The Father, I told HIM that although I Knew Jesus as Our Redeemer and Saviour, but that I didn't Know How HE Fit Into Father's Plan (raised & educated catholic, remember!)... I told Father that I was giving my life to HIM, YahWeh, Jehovah, Elohim, Abba....

Can't KNOW anything Of-HIM until you are Brought Into HIS Accord. I didn't KNOW anything, but I Knew WHO God The Father IS and WHO Christ Jesus IS...

Anyway... Final Moments, Rod...
Consider them from Matt 7:21-22 who "Did Miracles, Cast-Out demons, and Prophesied" IN HIS Name.... They "did" all those Mighty Works; or so they thought and so they reminded Jesus of it to try and gain entry into Heaven...

Yet, HE Rejects them! "Depart from ME, you who work iniquity: I KNOW YOU NOT!"

In verse 21 HE Says HE ONLY KNOWS those "Who DO The Will Of MY Father".... That only happens when we are Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again. IT'S Right There, Father's Witness Given By HIS Prophet...

The WHOLE Purpose of Christianity IS Witnessed by Jesus in Matt 22:1-14 "The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto A King WHO Made A Wedding Feast For HIS Son"... No mention of The Son in this parable... It's ALL about Answering The King's Invitation to Attend The Wedding Feast and how ALL HIS Originally Intended "guests" spurned HIS Invitation and spitefully slew HIS Servants... So The King's Servants found "other" guests...

"For many were Called, but few are Chosen!" is the ending verse Witness. Christ Is Saying There that few of those Chosen To Be Invited, Elected To Come...

Born-Agains are those Jesus Witnesses Of as The Very Elect.

If we fail to Answer Father's Call, we are simply failed Vessels.
 Quoting: Lester



I understand, and agree...Good Word. This is testified to by many others, some who are now dead.

One such person is James H McConkey, the book is called "The Surrendered Life, it is free here:

[link to www.truthfulwords.org (secure)]

Another such person is Watchman Nee, he wrote about this in a book (free to read online) called "The Brokeness of the outer man for the release of the spirit"

[link to www.ministrybooks.org (secure)]