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Rockets need an atmosphere to propel

 
Dillmiester

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01/23/2019 10:43 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Apparently you because where is the smoke gonna go in the tube or in space either one.
Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 10:46 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Apparently you because where is the smoke gonna go in the tube or in space either one.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


I'm pretty sure they space is very large. Much larger than that container. Do you think a rocket can pressurize space?
Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/23/2019 10:56 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Well that has to be where your wrong is assuming it needs pressure to push against (if it were it be its own exhaust) it doesnt need anything to push against to drive it just like in the tube because the amount of exhaust gases that it is producing is miniscule to the air mass in that box.
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01/23/2019 11:04 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Apparently you because where is the smoke gonna go in the tube or in space either one.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


I understand the problem now. Op's not mechanically inclined. He doesn't understand physics. It's not that he stupid, he just has no concept of action or reaction events on the physical plain. He also has very bad eyes.

"I don't give a tuppenny fuck about your moral conundrum, you meat-headed shit-sack." ~Bill the Butcher

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~Arthur C. Clarke

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Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:06 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel


So when wind blows on your back, did the air in front of you push on your face when is moved away from you?
Balance242
Frumpelstiltskin

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01/23/2019 11:09 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Apparently you because where is the smoke gonna go in the tube or in space either one.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


I'm pretty sure they space is very large. Much larger than that container. Do you think a rocket can pressurize space?
 Quoting: Balance242


It doesn't have to, you dingus.

"Rocket thrust results from the high speed ejection of material and does not require any medium to "push against". Conservation of momentum dictates that if material is ejected backward, the forward momentum of the remaining rocket must increase since an isolated system cannot change its net momentum"

[link to hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu]

It's not a gas diffusing in a vacuum, dummy. It's forcefully ejected matter. Just like a bullet, just like a man throwing a bowling ball. It cannot be made any simpler.

Last Edited by Frumpelstiltskin on 01/23/2019 11:12 PM
--'-,{@
Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:21 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Apparently you because where is the smoke gonna go in the tube or in space either one.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


I'm pretty sure they space is very large. Much larger than that container. Do you think a rocket can pressurize space?
 Quoting: Balance242


It doesn't have to, you dingus.

"Rocket thrust results from the high speed ejection of material and does not require any medium to "push against". Conservation of momentum dictates that if material is ejected backward, the forward momentum of the remaining rocket must increase since an isolated system cannot change its net momentum"

[link to hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu]

It's not a gas diffusing in a vacuum, dummy. It's forcefully ejected matter. Just like a bullet, just like a man throwing a bowling ball. It cannot be made any simpler.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


How does the rocket forcefully eject it?
Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/23/2019 11:29 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me try to explain it simpler, honestly this has taught me alot as well looking at information, and differing explanations It seems to be the mechanical action of it literally throwing the fuel out think of it as the rocket is grabbing on internally as its moving out the machine, all while loosing mass in the process. By burning it can expel of that fuel much faster thats why velocity plays a big part. Its sliding along its own fuel column. Like what happens when you let go of a hose is it water pushing against the air?

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Frumpelstiltskin

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01/23/2019 11:30 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Here's a real world experiment that you can do on your own: Punch a punching bag. According to you, you should either feel no resistance and it should fly across the room, or the resistance that you feel is solely due to the air resistance against the bag as is moves. Both are ridiculous, as are you.
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Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:36 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Here's a real world experiment that you can do on your own: Punch a punching bag. According to you, you should either feel no resistance and it should fly across the room, or the resistance that you feel is solely due to the air resistance against the bag as is moves. Both are ridiculous, as are you.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


Punching a bag is not the same thing as gas moving due to pressure differential. Just like punching a bag isn’t the same as movement due to gravity
Balance242
Frumpelstiltskin

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01/23/2019 11:37 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Apparently you because where is the smoke gonna go in the tube or in space either one.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


I'm pretty sure they space is very large. Much larger than that container. Do you think a rocket can pressurize space?
 Quoting: Balance242


It doesn't have to, you dingus.

"Rocket thrust results from the high speed ejection of material and does not require any medium to "push against". Conservation of momentum dictates that if material is ejected backward, the forward momentum of the remaining rocket must increase since an isolated system cannot change its net momentum"

[link to hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu]

It's not a gas diffusing in a vacuum, dummy. It's forcefully ejected matter. Just like a bullet, just like a man throwing a bowling ball. It cannot be made any simpler.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


How does the rocket forcefully eject it?
 Quoting: Balance242


Through the exhaust nozzle.
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Dillmiester

User ID: 77154896
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01/23/2019 11:42 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The garden hose experiment shows it needs no AIR pressure,

gradient/differential/backflow whatever you want to insert there.
Frumpelstiltskin

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01/23/2019 11:42 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
I think the problem is that you don't seem to realize that gasses have mass, and you don't understand the relationship between mass, velocity, and momentum.
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Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:44 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The garden hose experiment shows it needs no AIR pressure,

gradient/differential/backflow whatever you want to insert there.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


How exactly?
Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/23/2019 11:44 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The water pressing against the air is driving it forward?
Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:47 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
I think the problem is that you don't seem to realize that gasses have mass, and you don't understand the relationship between mass, velocity, and momentum.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


When you drop a mass from your hand from a height, does it push back on your hand? Didn’t the mass gain momentum?
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:48 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The water pressing against the air is driving it forward?
 Quoting: Dillmiester


So the water is pushing off the air
Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/23/2019 11:49 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Thats what im asking you.
Frumpelstiltskin

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01/23/2019 11:49 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
I think the problem is that you don't seem to realize that gasses have mass, and you don't understand the relationship between mass, velocity, and momentum.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


When you drop a mass from your hand from a height, does it push back on your hand? Didn’t the mass gain momentum?
 Quoting: Balance242


Rockets don't "drop" fuel/exhaust, they "push" it. If you "pushed" the mass toward the ground, it would exert a palpable force upon your hand.
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Balance242  (OP)

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01/23/2019 11:50 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Thats what im asking you.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


Yes the water pushes off the atmosphere same as a rocket
Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/24/2019 12:11 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Say you have a hose with a nozzle its on the hose off but under pressure, the water isnt moving till it starts and continues to escape, the idea is to move it through faster. The point at where it leaves continually it will travel in that direction its aimed notice the same hose taking off effect happens regardless if the pressure nozzle is on or not like bare hose wide open just moves around a lot less faster, The stream is smaller in diameter and less water volume with the pressure nozzle it may sustain its own weight with the water turned to like 30 percent for example but the open end hose only gently flails around with it maxed out.

Lets say for sake of the argument every bit of that exhaust was captured immediately upon exiting the nozzle it would still move.

Last Edited by Dillmiester on 01/24/2019 12:15 AM
Balance242  (OP)

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01/24/2019 12:12 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
I think the problem is that you don't seem to realize that gasses have mass, and you don't understand the relationship between mass, velocity, and momentum.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


When you drop a mass from your hand from a height, does it push back on your hand? Didn’t the mass gain momentum?
 Quoting: Balance242


Rockets don't "drop" fuel/exhaust, they "push" it. If you "pushed" the mass toward the ground, it would exert a palpable force upon your hand.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


The rocket doesn’t push it. The combustion of fuel creates hot gases and creates a large pressure difference between the rocket chamber and space. It is pressure gradient force that moves the exhaust.

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Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/24/2019 12:19 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
How bout we do the hose experiment in a vacuum wouldnt that be something.
Frumpelstiltskin

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01/24/2019 12:23 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
I think the problem is that you don't seem to realize that gasses have mass, and you don't understand the relationship between mass, velocity, and momentum.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


When you drop a mass from your hand from a height, does it push back on your hand? Didn’t the mass gain momentum?
 Quoting: Balance242


Rockets don't "drop" fuel/exhaust, they "push" it. If you "pushed" the mass toward the ground, it would exert a palpable force upon your hand.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


The rocket doesn’t push it. The combustion of fuel creates hot gases and creates a large pressure difference between the rocket chamber and space. It is pressure gradient force that moves the exhaust.

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Balance242


The higher pressure gradient increases the velocity at which the particles are expelled, hence the increased change in the rocket's momentum.
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Mike in Southampton

User ID: 77177514
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01/24/2019 01:40 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Congrats op on 10 pages!

chorus
Religion - I don't know, and you don't either
ChipModerator
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01/24/2019 04:39 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Congrats op on 10 pages!

chorus
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Most threads I would agree. This particular subject is a fail. 10 pages of this is like trying to explain math to a cat.

"I don't give a tuppenny fuck about your moral conundrum, you meat-headed shit-sack." ~Bill the Butcher

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~Arthur C. Clarke

"He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda!" ~David Mills ~ Se7en


"THE PLANET IS FINE! THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED" ~George Carlin
Balance242  (OP)

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01/24/2019 07:09 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Congrats op on 10 pages!

chorus
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Most threads I would agree. This particular subject is a fail. 10 pages of this is like trying to explain math to a cat.
 Quoting: Chip


And yet no simple experiment showing that there is an equal and opposite force due to movement from pressure gradient force. When the wind blows on your back, did the air in front of you push on your face when it moved away from you?
Balance242
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01/24/2019 09:20 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
So when wind blows on your back, did the air in front of you push on your face when is moved away from you?
 Quoting: Balance242


That isn't analogous to a rocket at all you fucking idiot.
astrobanner2
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01/24/2019 09:22 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Still want to see a bottle rocket in a huge vacuum
 Quoting: Wotsits


Done.

And done.
[link to russianspaceweb.com]
 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut


No chamber. The surrounding space doesn't get pressurized.
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ChipModerator
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01/24/2019 10:07 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Congrats op on 10 pages!

chorus
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Most threads I would agree. This particular subject is a fail. 10 pages of this is like trying to explain math to a cat.
 Quoting: Chip


And yet no simple experiment showing that there is an equal and opposite force due to movement from pressure gradient force. When the wind blows on your back, did the air in front of you push on your face when it moved away from you?
 Quoting: Balance242


You've been shown several concluded experiments. Newton's 3rd law is in effect every time. As I said before; you're blind and ignorant. It's not your fault. You were born this way.

"I don't give a tuppenny fuck about your moral conundrum, you meat-headed shit-sack." ~Bill the Butcher

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~Arthur C. Clarke

"He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda!" ~David Mills ~ Se7en


"THE PLANET IS FINE! THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED" ~George Carlin