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Rockets need an atmosphere to propel

 
Masiro®

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01/21/2019 07:46 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...



"For every action there is an opposite reaction."

That is a fundamental law of physics 101.

Also known as Newton's third law of motion, it explains why things move because of the force applied to them.

Like the wind against my face for instance.

Simple question: What pushes the wind against my face?

By your reasoning because the atmosphere is there I should not feel anything and there should be no movement.

The pennies in the tube lift because of the sudden rush of air out the tube, but if the vacuum process is slowed down to a point where the extraction of the gases in the tube isn't enough to lift the penny, then the penny won't move at all.

The variable in your experiment is the speed at which you extract the air inside the tube, you are doing it at a high speed fast enough to raise the weight of a penny.
 Quoting: Masiro®


The movement is simply due to pressure difference. This movement is not the same as throwing or pushing an object. If the air flow is strong enough to lift the penny, the force must be at least greater than the normal force of the penny. But this is not seen on the scale, therefore, equal and opposite reaction does not happen.
 Quoting: Balance242


I see you are still confused...

The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises.

It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors.
 Quoting: Masiro®


“The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying.
 Quoting: Balance242



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
ALL IS ONE IS ALL

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01/21/2019 07:48 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it.

Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies?

Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out.

Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0.

Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org]

If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag.

Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies.

To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]


Idol1
 Quoting: Balance242


space is not a vacumn.. it is full of stuff.. if it were a vacumn NOTHING WOULD EXIST as planets.. suns etc... the PRESSURE OF COLD SPACE MAKES SUNS etc... ROUND.
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SARCGASMS

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01/21/2019 07:49 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
This is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. Jet fuel has oxygen inside of it you moron. It doesn't need oxygen around it because it is already lit.
SARCGASMS

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01/21/2019 07:55 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it.

Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies?

Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out.

Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0.

Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org]

If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag.

Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies.

To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]


Idol1
 Quoting: Balance242


space is not a vacumn.. it is full of stuff.. if it were a vacumn NOTHING WOULD EXIST as planets.. suns etc... the PRESSURE OF COLD SPACE MAKES SUNS etc... ROUND.
 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL


Ok i take it back, the fact you said space has pressure and is not a vacuum is up there too
Tombstone

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South Africa
01/21/2019 08:06 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure.

The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE.

There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0.

So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero)

In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside.


THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.


IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE.

THERE IS NO SUCTION.


Jesus people have become dumb.


THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION

PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
...........


The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice.
Tombstone

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South Africa
01/21/2019 08:06 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure.

The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE.

There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0.

So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero)

In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside.


THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.


IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE.

THERE IS NO SUCTION.


Jesus people have become dumb.


THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION

PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
...........


The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice.
Tombstone

User ID: 77305533
South Africa
01/21/2019 08:10 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure.

The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE.

There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0.

So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero)

In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside.


THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.


IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE.

THERE IS NO SUCTION.


Jesus people have become dumb.


THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION

PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
...........


The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice.
 Quoting: Tombstone


Dummies think that a vacuum which has a pressure of ZERO causes suction, when in fact the basics is merely that a high pressure flows to a low pressure.

Rockets fly even better in space than on earth, because the pressure differential is higher.

Fuck I can't believe I'm wasting my time on low IQ shit like this. I feel fucking stupid for doing so.

Stupid people must just fuck off and realize that because they are stupid, they never realize that they are stupid, because they are too stupid to realize that they are stupid.
Tombstone

User ID: 77305533
South Africa
01/21/2019 08:10 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure.

The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE.

There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0.

So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero)

In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside.


THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.


IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE.

THERE IS NO SUCTION.


Jesus people have become dumb.


THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION

PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
...........


The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice.
 Quoting: Tombstone


Dummies think that a vacuum which has a pressure of ZERO causes suction, when in fact the basics is merely that a high pressure flows to a low pressure.

Rockets fly even better in space than on earth, because the pressure differential is higher.

Fuck I can't believe I'm wasting my time on low IQ shit like this. I feel fucking stupid for doing so.

Stupid people must just fuck off and realize that because they are stupid, they never realize that they are stupid, because they are too stupid to realize that they are stupid.
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 58940332
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01/21/2019 08:38 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


The movement is simply due to pressure difference. This movement is not the same as throwing or pushing an object. If the air flow is strong enough to lift the penny, the force must be at least greater than the normal force of the penny. But this is not seen on the scale, therefore, equal and opposite reaction does not happen.
 Quoting: Balance242


I see you are still confused...

The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises.

It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors.
 Quoting: Masiro®


“The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying.
 Quoting: Balance242



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny.
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 58940332
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01/21/2019 08:38 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


I see you are still confused...

The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises.

It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors.
 Quoting: Masiro®


“The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying.
 Quoting: Balance242



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny.
 Quoting: Balance242

[link to www.mansfieldct.org (secure)]
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 08:39 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
This is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. Jet fuel has oxygen inside of it you moron. It doesn't need oxygen around it because it is already lit.
 Quoting: SARCGASMS


Who said that, certainly not me
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 08:42 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure.

The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE.

There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0.

So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero)

In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside.


THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.


IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE.

THERE IS NO SUCTION.


Jesus people have become dumb.


THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION
THERE IS NO SUCTION

PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW.
...........


The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice.
 Quoting: Tombstone


Who’s disagreeing about high pressure moving to low pressure? High pressure in rocket, low pressure in space=movement.

Low pressure in vacuum hose, high pressure in pipe = movement.


So essentially what you said has no relevance
Balance242
DeplorableOldMan

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01/21/2019 08:49 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
OP, expanding gasses exert force against the inside of the rocket engine thereby forcing the ship to move in the opposite direction. This is a very simple concept.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
DeplorableOldMan
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 08:58 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
OP, expanding gasses exert force against the inside of the rocket engine thereby forcing the ship to move in the opposite direction. This is a very simple concept.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
 Quoting: DeplorableOldMan


Then why no opposite force on the scale? Gas expanded out of the pipe but no reaction
Balance242
Dr. Deplorable AstromutModerator
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01/21/2019 09:01 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
OP, expanding gasses exert force against the inside of the rocket engine thereby forcing the ship to move in the opposite direction. This is a very simple concept.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
 Quoting: DeplorableOldMan


Then why no opposite force on the scale? Gas expanded out of the pipe but no reaction
 Quoting: Balance242


There's a full atmosphere of pressure all around the piper pipe and the pipe itself has very little gas in it. It's a meaningless broken analogy. Rockets do work in space. I've filmed it myself, it's not even debatable, it's an observable fact.
astrobanner2
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01/21/2019 09:01 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Wrong.

The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself.
 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

astrobanner2
Balance242  (OP)

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Canada
01/21/2019 09:05 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Wrong.

The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself.
 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut


Proof using simple experiment would be more accurate.
Balance242
Masiro®

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United States
01/21/2019 09:08 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


I see you are still confused...

The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises.

It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors.
 Quoting: Masiro®


“The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying.
 Quoting: Balance242



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny.
 Quoting: Balance242


Read it again...

I underlined the important part for you.

A vacuum cleaner nozzle will lift objects when it gets closer to them.

The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with.

Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong.

Last Edited by Masiro® on 01/21/2019 09:10 AM
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 09:10 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


“The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying.
 Quoting: Balance242



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny.
 Quoting: Balance242


Read it again...

I underlined the important part for you.

A vacuum cleaner nozzle with lift objects when it gets closer to them.

The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with.

Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t suck. High pressure moves to low pressure. Read the post above where the poster repeatedly states Vaccum is not suction
Balance242
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01/21/2019 09:12 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Wrong.

The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself.
 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut


Proof using simple experiment would be more accurate.
 Quoting: Balance242


Your so called experiment is not more accurate. My observation is more accurate.
astrobanner2
Mike in Southampton

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01/21/2019 09:13 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it.

So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked.

However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together?
Religion - I don't know, and you don't either
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 09:16 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it.

So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked.

However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice
Balance242
Masiro®

User ID: 77027273
United States
01/21/2019 09:21 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny.
 Quoting: Balance242


Read it again...

I underlined the important part for you.

A vacuum cleaner nozzle with lift objects when it gets closer to them.

The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with.

Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t suck. High pressure moves to low pressure. Read the post above where the poster repeatedly states Vaccum is not suction
 Quoting: Balance242


So what you are saying is that the penny rises because it is denser than the air around it (high pressure) because there is no such thing as suction despite a century of proof that Venturi's principle works.

and that rockets fly into space because the pressure of the atmosphere is less at higher altitudes and the rocket rise into space because of the density of the air because the lack of air pressure overcomes gravity...

And it has nothing to do with the ungodly amount of thrust coming out of the rocket motor pushing against the body of the missile.
Mike in Southampton

User ID: 77177514
United Kingdom
01/21/2019 09:52 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it.

So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked.

However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice
 Quoting: Balance242


No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed?
Religion - I don't know, and you don't either
fixxxer

User ID: 77306555
Jordan
01/21/2019 11:05 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
So if I was standing on a perfectly frictionless airless ice rink for example and threw a basketball away from me what would happen OP? Nothing? Or something? Work it out yourself.
 Quoting: watwick


go with me on this one , in a complete vacuum where theres zero other force working on an object, can it be said that the object has no inertia ? so the object does not resist movement to any direction, since it has zero potential energy? is that correct ?

maybe newtons 3rd law only applies to object that have inertia, where an object resists force applied to it. but if the object does not resist the force then there is no opposite reaction

so in your example of a completely frictionless airless ice rink, ( i will add gravity-less) , maybe you dont actually move if you throw a ball away from you, the whole energy is used to propel the ball forward and there was no resistance at all to your movement so no force acts back on you


yea its ok call me dumb and whatever, im just trying to understand.
also im just looking at it objectively and dont stand with or against either statements
sometimes the truth is easier to find in the reaction rather than the picture
The Rickest Rick Sanchez

User ID: 73226681
United States
01/21/2019 11:39 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Well.... you are wrong.

Check your premise.
I turned myself into a pickle and 9/11 was an inside job!

The Rickest Rick Sanchez comments are meant for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed to reflect the feelings and opinions, implied or expressed, of the author.
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 58940332
Canada
01/21/2019 12:27 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


“The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying.
 Quoting: Balance242



Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure.


Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly.

I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles...

Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny.
 Quoting: Balance242


Read it again...

I underlined the important part for you.

A vacuum cleaner nozzle will lift objects when it gets closer to them.

The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with.

Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong.
 Quoting: Masiro®


Are you insane? Venturi principle is pressure changes of fluid flow through different diameters of pipe. Has nothing to due with why the penny is lifted.

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Penny lifts because the airflow from the pipe into the vacuum is strong enough to lift the penny.
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 58940332
Canada
01/21/2019 12:28 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it.

So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked.

However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice
 Quoting: Balance242


No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


How do I know the ISS isn’t simply a balloon or airplane?
Balance242
Mike in Southampton

User ID: 77177514
United Kingdom
01/21/2019 12:35 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it.

So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked.

However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice
 Quoting: Balance242


No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


How do I know the ISS isn’t simply a balloon or airplane?
 Quoting: Balance242


What you do know can be written on the back of a postage stamp with room left over. If you're going to troll, at least make it entertaining.
Religion - I don't know, and you don't either
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 58940332
Canada
01/21/2019 12:39 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
So if I was standing on a perfectly frictionless airless ice rink for example and threw a basketball away from me what would happen OP? Nothing? Or something? Work it out yourself.
 Quoting: watwick


go with me on this one , in a complete vacuum where theres zero other force working on an object, can it be said that the object has no inertia ? so the object does not resist movement to any direction, since it has zero potential energy? is that correct ?

maybe newtons 3rd law only applies to object that have inertia, where an object resists force applied to it. but if the object does not resist the force then there is no opposite reaction

so in your example of a completely frictionless airless ice rink, ( i will add gravity-less) , maybe you dont actually move if you throw a ball away from you, the whole energy is used to propel the ball forward and there was no resistance at all to your movement so no force acts back on you


yea its ok call me dumb and whatever, im just trying to understand.
also im just looking at it objectively and dont stand with or against either statements
 Quoting: fixxxer


Throwing a ball and gas moving due to pressure differential are not the same. This is where people get confused. Just like movement due to gravity doesn’t push back until it hits he grOund or something else, the gas doesn’t push back until it hits the atmosphere or something else. Gravity and pressure gradient are not the same as pushing a wall or throwing a ball
Balance242