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Rockets need an atmosphere to propel

 
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 12:41 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice
 Quoting: Balance242


No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed?
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


How do I know the ISS isn’t simply a balloon or airplane?
 Quoting: Balance242


What you do know can be written on the back of a postage stamp with room left over. If you're going to troll, at least make it entertaining.
 Quoting: Mike in Southampton


Again not proof
Balance242
Overgoverned

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01/21/2019 02:46 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice.
 Quoting: Tombstone


No child should be left behind. Inclusion now! Nature allegedly abhors a vacuum, but OP is blissfully unaware that nature doesn't much care for the zero-pressure environment within his cranium.

Smoke another bowl or ten, OP. The damage has already been done.
Dillmiester

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01/21/2019 02:48 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
How do you explain how an ion engine or plasma engine works.
Mike in Southampton

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01/21/2019 03:14 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
How do you explain how an ion engine or plasma engine works.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


He doesn't. As well as intelligence and knowledge, this op is very low on explanations as well.
Religion - I don't know, and you don't either
Pilgrim001

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01/21/2019 04:12 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me explain how a rocket engine works.

Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated.
The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the higher pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas.

Last Edited by Pilgrim001 on 01/21/2019 04:22 PM
Funny how 'social security' has a shortfall...but never WELFARE!
Gimme a break.
Somehow, we can always afford ALL types of welfare (even for millions of illegal immigrants!), plus billions in foreign aid to nations that hate us...BUT...social security is a "problem".

Nah, the problem is the goobermint...Unknown AC.


Blame it on my ADD, baby...Sail


The election of Donald Trump didn't cause the hatred displayed by the progressive liberal left and democratic party. The election of Donald Trump exposed it.
Donald Isaacson

Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered....Stolen
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 04:20 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me explain how a rocket engine works.

Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated.
The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale.
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 04:21 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
How do you explain how an ion engine or plasma engine works.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


Have you seen them work in space?
Balance242
Dr. Deplorable AstromutModerator
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01/21/2019 04:22 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Wrong.

The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself.
 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut


Proof using simple experiment would be more accurate.
 Quoting: Balance242


Your so called experiment is not more accurate. My observation is more accurate.
 Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut


Proof.
astrobanner2
Pilgrim001

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01/21/2019 04:24 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me explain how a rocket engine works.

Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated.
The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale.
 Quoting: Balance242


You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong.
Funny how 'social security' has a shortfall...but never WELFARE!
Gimme a break.
Somehow, we can always afford ALL types of welfare (even for millions of illegal immigrants!), plus billions in foreign aid to nations that hate us...BUT...social security is a "problem".

Nah, the problem is the goobermint...Unknown AC.


Blame it on my ADD, baby...Sail


The election of Donald Trump didn't cause the hatred displayed by the progressive liberal left and democratic party. The election of Donald Trump exposed it.
Donald Isaacson

Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered....Stolen
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 58940332
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01/21/2019 04:26 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me explain how a rocket engine works.

Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated.
The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale.
 Quoting: Balance242


You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001

Well you only if you could demonstrate using simple experiment
Balance242
I hate you

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01/21/2019 04:36 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Wrong...
Frumpelstiltskin

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01/21/2019 04:41 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb.
--'-,{@
Wotsits

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01/21/2019 05:18 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel


no thrust Farting ki
Dillmiester

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01/21/2019 05:21 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
How do you explain how an ion engine or plasma engine works.
 Quoting: Dillmiester


Have you seen them work in space?
 Quoting: Balance242



I knew you were gonna say that.

They always try to use the premise of if I or you havent personally seen it then it must be fake! Its a international conspiracy and nothing thats been observed or validated by thousands of independent researchers, engineers, enthusiasts matters.

Have you or I ever personally seen a nuclear bomb detonated? No but im pretty sure that we can agree that its effects are most certainely real and well documented as complex as thier construction, and physics principles of operation are to understand.

Explain your expirement set up in more detail then you can really quantify its flaws.
Pilgrim001

User ID: 77021014
United States
01/21/2019 05:26 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me explain how a rocket engine works.

Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated.
The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale.
 Quoting: Balance242


You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001

Well you only if you could demonstrate using simple experiment
 Quoting: Balance242



I don't need to. You will not accept anything, and I consider it Settled Science. I am retired and My next "experiment" will be baking a Rum cake.
Funny how 'social security' has a shortfall...but never WELFARE!
Gimme a break.
Somehow, we can always afford ALL types of welfare (even for millions of illegal immigrants!), plus billions in foreign aid to nations that hate us...BUT...social security is a "problem".

Nah, the problem is the goobermint...Unknown AC.


Blame it on my ADD, baby...Sail


The election of Donald Trump didn't cause the hatred displayed by the progressive liberal left and democratic party. The election of Donald Trump exposed it.
Donald Isaacson

Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered....Stolen
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 07:13 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


Again, fluid movement due to pressure differential is not the same mechanism as throwing a ball.
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 07:13 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel


no thrust Farting ki
 Quoting: Wotsits


I was not disputing combustion in a vacuum. Trolls don't read.
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 07:15 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...


If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale.
 Quoting: Balance242


You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001

Well you only if you could demonstrate using simple experiment
 Quoting: Balance242



I don't need to. You will not accept anything, and I consider it Settled Science. I am retired and My next "experiment" will be baking a Rum cake.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


When your cake rises, does it push down on the oven? Anyways thanks for showing that there is no proof of rockets working in space.
Balance242
hotdogg

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01/21/2019 07:55 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


Again, fluid movement due to pressure differential is not the same mechanism as throwing a ball.
 Quoting: Balance242


false...they both involv1er accelerating mass, and the resulting reaction....every action has an equal and opposite reaction...same thing applies to rocket engines accelerating hot gasses out of the engines, propelling the craft in the opposite vector...
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 08:22 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb.
 Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin


Again, fluid movement due to pressure differential is not the same mechanism as throwing a ball.
 Quoting: Balance242


false...they both involv1er accelerating mass, and the resulting reaction....every action has an equal and opposite reaction...same thing applies to rocket engines accelerating hot gasses out of the engines, propelling the craft in the opposite vector...
 Quoting: hotdogg


When you drop a ball from your hand from a height, is there an opposite reaction in your hand when the ball falls? Doesn’t it involve accelerating mass?
Balance242
TGus

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01/21/2019 08:28 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're mistake is in thinking that reaction mass must push against something, like we swim in the water. Actually propellant throws mass in the opposite direction of travel, using conservation of momentum to move ahead. (Please look this up.) The faster and heavier the propellant, the better.
Balance242  (OP)

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01/21/2019 08:36 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're mistake is in thinking that reaction mass must push against something, like we swim in the water. Actually propellant throws mass in the opposite direction of travel, using conservation of momentum to move ahead. (Please look this up.) The faster and heavier the propellant, the better.
 Quoting: TGus


This was disproven by the pipe experiment. Mass was expelled out of the pipe and therefore according to you there should be an opposite force, but this is not seen.

Perhaps you can think of a simple experiment showing that rockets do work in space.
Balance242
Dillmiester

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01/21/2019 10:55 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Ask yourself why a rocket ignites, why it burns fuel. Why not just shoot a bunch of liquid at high pressure.
fixxxer

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01/22/2019 12:04 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Let me explain how a rocket engine works.

Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated.
The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the higher pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001



finally someone with a right explanation of rockets.
but i still think this has nothing to do with newton and his 3rd law. its pressure driven and not action/reaction driven. if it is action/reaction driven, it would not work in a vacuum like OP said
sometimes the truth is easier to find in the reaction rather than the picture
hotdogg

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01/22/2019 12:10 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
If rockets don't work in vacuum, explain exactly how satellites get into orbit...with details, please.
Seeker of Truth
Half human, half imaginating, 100% real

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01/22/2019 12:28 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're full of shit dude. I've argued against people like you for years. Not going to educate you too. Please understand physics and the de Laval nozzle before making such baseless claims. Heck, even myth busters proved you and your ilk are full of shit. hf
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Arawn

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01/22/2019 02:07 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
math

Last Edited by Arawn on 01/22/2019 02:08 AM
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 76708078
Canada
01/22/2019 06:25 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
You're full of shit dude. I've argued against people like you for years. Not going to educate you too. Please understand physics and the de Laval nozzle before making such baseless claims. Heck, even myth busters proved you and your ilk are full of shit. hf
[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Seeker of Truth


So you’re saying that rockets only work in space because of the de_laval nozzle?
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

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01/22/2019 06:26 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
math
 Quoting: Arawn


Lol nice try
Balance242
Wotsits

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01/22/2019 06:32 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
If rockets don't work in vacuum, explain exactly how satellites get into orbit...with details, please.
 Quoting: hotdogg




seems a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than the trillions paid to NAZA and Elong Moist!!!

anyway, regardless

... satellites aren't in 'space' - low earth orbit or in Exosphere

not the vacuum of space

(cos rockets dont work there - despite what Disney and Chicom showed you!)



Last Edited by Wotsits on 01/22/2019 06:35 AM