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# Rockets need an atmosphere to propel

InterStellar_Hoodrat

User ID: 76465276
United States
01/22/2019 06:33 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it.

Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies?

Quoting: Balance242

Not sure if Trolling or Stupid, however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Your pipe analogy is stupid, The air would be removed and the weight of that air would be reflected in the scale weight, just because their is no air in the tube does not mean the penny is now massless, or can somehow overcome gravity.

What airflow are you talking about? its either a vacuum chamber or a low pressure area, have you been taking meds and playing with vacuum cleaners??

Quoting: AnonCh4rl1

Clearly the chamber is not a vacuum when you can see the buildup of smoke. You must be stupid to think a container filled with smoke can be under vacuum.
Quoting: Balance242

you are a stunning example of the dunning kruger effect in action
InterStellar_Hoodrat
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 76708078
01/22/2019 07:45 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Sometimes the level if stupid people we acquire is a absolutely astounding.

I'm impressed GLP. You guys have really have outdone yourselves.

Quoting: Chip

I guess that’s why glpers cannot prove rockets working in a vacuum with simple experiment
Balance242
hotdogg

User ID: 4448622
United States
01/22/2019 10:07 AM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...explain the satellites we see in the sky, they are way too distant for jetliners. (as in, they are visible to viewers 200 miles apart)
Wotsits

User ID: 72063207
United Kingdom
01/22/2019 10:45 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...explain the satellites we see in the sky, they are way too distant for jetliners. (as in, they are visible to viewers 200 miles apart)
Quoting: hotdogg

swamp gas and weather balloons

regardless.....

sats aren't in 'space'

LEO

Low earth orbit
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 10:47 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...explain the satellites we see in the sky, they are way too distant for jetliners. (as in, they are visible to viewers 200 miles apart)
Quoting: hotdogg

swamp gas and weather balloons

regardless.....

sats aren't in 'space'

LEO

Low earth orbit
Quoting: Wotsits

Low earth orbit is still well above the internationally accepted line of space and not all satellites are in low earth orbits.

Last Edited by Dr. Deplorable Astromut on 01/22/2019 10:47 AM
Wotsits

User ID: 72063207
United Kingdom
01/22/2019 10:59 AM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
But still not in a vacuum even higher than LEO... is it?

Oh for the Apollo days again!

Last Edited by Wotsits on 01/22/2019 11:00 AM
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 52373976
01/22/2019 01:16 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Sometimes the level if stupid people we acquire is a absolutely astounding.

I'm impressed GLP. You guys have really have outdone yourselves.

Quoting: Chip

I guess that’s why glpers cannot prove rockets working in a vacuum with simple experiment
Quoting: Balance242

Most rocket systems include their own fuel. There's no need for oxygen or any other needs that the vacuum doesn't provide for a rocket to burn. Do you understand? 2 + 2 = 4. Are you with me?
Quoting: Chip

Well if you my initial post before assuming, you would realize I am not refuting the lack of oxygen for combustion.

When you assume, you make an “ass” out of “u” and “me”
Balance242
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 01:24 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
But still not in a vacuum even higher than LEO... is it?
Quoting: Wotsits

Even low earth orbit is a harder vacuum than any vacuum chamber on earth, so yes, it is. There is no "absolute" vacuum anywhere in the solar system, there are always a few particles everywhere you go, but for all intents and purposes, yes it's a vacuum. Are you really this ignorant?
hotdogg

User ID: 4448622
United States
01/22/2019 01:30 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...explain the satellites we see in the sky, they are way too distant for jetliners. (as in, they are visible to viewers 200 miles apart)
Quoting: hotdogg

swamp gas and weather balloons

regardless.....

sats aren't in 'space'

LEO

Low earth orbit
Quoting: Wotsits

What is your definition of "space"? There is actually a "boundary" for it, as define by the experts. What is your definition of LEO?
Ducandy

User ID: 19150010
United States
01/22/2019 01:36 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Sometimes the level if stupid people we acquire is a absolutely astounding.

I'm impressed GLP. You guys have really have outdone yourselves.

Quoting: Chip

I guess that’s why glpers cannot prove rockets working in a vacuum with simple experiment
Quoting: Balance242

If I was as fucking stupid as you I'd shoot myself right in he kisser.

Moron.
Free me

User ID: 71668768
United States
01/22/2019 01:49 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Thanks OP, we now have two NASA theories that admittedly cannot be demonstrated with a simple experiment:

- gas pressure without containment
- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
- next?
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 01:52 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
- gas pressure without containment
Quoting: Free me

Wrong.

- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
Quoting: Freed idiot

Also wrong.

Free me

User ID: 71668768
United States
01/22/2019 02:22 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Thanks OP, we now have two NASA theories that admittedly cannot be demonstrated with a simple experiment:

- gas pressure without containment
- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
- next?
Quoting: Free me
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 02:31 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
- gas pressure without containment
Quoting: Free me

Wrong.

- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
Quoting: Freed idiot

Also wrong.

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Wotsits

User ID: 77291193
United Kingdom
01/22/2019 04:33 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
But still not in a vacuum even higher than LEO... is it?
Quoting: Wotsits

Even low earth orbit is a harder vacuum than any vacuum chamber on earth, so yes, it is. There is no "absolute" vacuum anywhere in the solar system, there are always a few particles everywhere you go, but for all intents and purposes, yes it's a vacuum. Are you really this ignorant?
Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

When it comes to space... yes. My physics teacher was a sadistic bastard that used to hit us with rulers! Biology was ma thang...

Still want to see a bottle rocket in a huge vacuum
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 04:38 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
But still not in a vacuum even higher than LEO... is it?
Quoting: Wotsits

Even low earth orbit is a harder vacuum than any vacuum chamber on earth, so yes, it is. There is no "absolute" vacuum anywhere in the solar system, there are always a few particles everywhere you go, but for all intents and purposes, yes it's a vacuum. Are you really this ignorant?
Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

When it comes to space... yes.
Quoting: Wotsits

Low earth orbit IS space. So is geosynchronous orbit.

Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 04:40 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Still want to see a bottle rocket in a huge vacuum
Quoting: Wotsits

Done.

And done.
Wotsits

User ID: 77291193
United Kingdom
01/22/2019 05:02 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Exosphere!
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 05:05 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Exosphere!
Quoting: Wotsits

Is still thinner than any vacuum chamber on earth. It's still space.
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 52373976
01/22/2019 05:13 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
- gas pressure without containment
Quoting: Free me

Wrong.

- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
Quoting: Freed idiot

Also wrong.

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Again practical experiment that an average person can do would be adequate
Balance242
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 05:22 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
- gas pressure without containment
Quoting: Free me

Wrong.

- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
Quoting: Freed idiot

Also wrong.

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Again practical experiment that an average person can do would be adequate
Quoting: Balance242

Well then it's a good thing that we already have a massive experiment being done with a huge ass rocket actually in space right before our eyes.
- gas pressure without containment
Quoting: Free me

Wrong.

- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
Quoting: Freed idiot

Also wrong.

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Arawn

User ID: 72744137
United States
01/22/2019 05:23 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
RiZE

User ID: 69139474
01/22/2019 05:31 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Simple proof that rockets work in space: rockets in space.
Quoting: Huck Fillary

prove it! I disproved it using simple experiment. Why don't you use simple experiment to prove it.
Quoting: Balance242

Rockets motors do not push against the atmosphere they push against the rocket body.

simple test:

put a scale on the pushed side of the rocket motor and measure the amount of force

put the same scale on the exhaust side of the rocket motor and measure the force against the scale.

The result will always be greater on the side to which the rocket moves (away from the exhaust) because of the effect of the rocket's thrust against the object it pushes through space and the atmosphere.
Quoting: Masiro®

Indeed I agree. There is no force in space working against the rocket so obviously it would be propelled by the rocket engine. What does it even matter? Why not conduct an experiment to disprove something useful?
Servant of The Most High

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 52373976
01/22/2019 05:41 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
...

Wrong.

...

Also wrong.

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Again practical experiment that an average person can do would be adequate
Quoting: Balance242

Well then it's a good thing that we already have a massive experiment being done with a huge ass rocket actually in space right before our eyes.
- gas pressure without containment
Quoting: Free me

Wrong.

- rocket propulsion in a vacuum
Quoting: Freed idiot

Also wrong.

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

The rocket goes horizontal and it is not evidence that the rocket was thrusting in space. Your other video is a simulation, which is not evidence of reality. The only evidence you have is full of Controversy and questions
Balance242
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 52373976
01/22/2019 05:43 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
Simple proof that rockets work in space: rockets in space.
Quoting: Huck Fillary

prove it! I disproved it using simple experiment. Why don't you use simple experiment to prove it.
Quoting: Balance242

Rockets motors do not push against the atmosphere they push against the rocket body.

simple test:

put a scale on the pushed side of the rocket motor and measure the amount of force

put the same scale on the exhaust side of the rocket motor and measure the force against the scale.

The result will always be greater on the side to which the rocket moves (away from the exhaust) because of the effect of the rocket's thrust against the object it pushes through space and the atmosphere.
Quoting: Masiro®

Indeed I agree. There is no force in space working against the rocket so obviously it would be propelled by the rocket engine. What does it even matter? Why not conduct an experiment to disprove something useful?
Quoting: RiZE

I just proved that there is no opposite force resulting from movement due to pressure differential with the pipe experiment. Now you have to prove that there is, otherwise rockets don’t work in space.
Balance242
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 63286947
United States
01/22/2019 05:46 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
....And Jet engines really run on compressed air......
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 05:49 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The rocket goes horizontal and it is not evidence that the rocket was thrusting in space.
Quoting: Balance242

That's how you get to orbit. The fact it turns around, nulls its horizontal velocity and then comes back to land next to where it started proves very much that it did indeed have thrust in space.

Your other video is a simulation, which is not evidence of reality.
Quoting: Idiot

The other video is an open source simulation, an in silico experiment based on very simple physics. The source code is right there, so if there's something wrong with it, it's up to you to show where.

Last Edited by Dr. Deplorable Astromut on 01/22/2019 05:49 PM
Balance242  (OP)

User ID: 52373976
01/22/2019 05:51 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The rocket goes horizontal and it is not evidence that the rocket was thrusting in space.
Quoting: Balance242

That's how you get to orbit. The fact it turns around, nulls its horizontal velocity and then comes back to land next to where it started proves very much that it did indeed have thrust in space.

Your other video is a simulation, which is not evidence of reality.
Quoting: Idiot

The other video is an open source simulation, an in silico experiment based on very simple physics. The source code is right there, so if there's something wrong with it, it's up to you to show where.
Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

What if it never went to space and just came back down?
Balance242
Dr. Deplorable Astromut
Senior Forum Moderator

01/22/2019 05:54 PM

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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
The rocket goes horizontal and it is not evidence that the rocket was thrusting in space.
Quoting: Balance242

That's how you get to orbit. The fact it turns around, nulls its horizontal velocity and then comes back to land next to where it started proves very much that it did indeed have thrust in space.

Your other video is a simulation, which is not evidence of reality.
Quoting: Idiot

The other video is an open source simulation, an in silico experiment based on very simple physics. The source code is right there, so if there's something wrong with it, it's up to you to show where.
Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut

What if it never went to space and just came back down?
Quoting: Balance242

Wow, thanks for proving you didn't even watch the damn video. You're willfully ignorant, you're not even looking at what I'm showing. You really don't get it.
.Rest.

User ID: 76853663
United States
01/22/2019 05:54 PM
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Re: Rockets need an atmosphere to propel
If rockets don't work in vacuum, explain exactly how satellites get into orbit...with details, please.
Quoting: hotdogg

seems a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than the trillions paid to NAZA and Elong Moist!!!

anyway, regardless

... satellites aren't in 'space' - low earth orbit or in Exosphere

not the vacuum of space

(cos rockets dont work there - despite what Disney and Chicom showed you!)

Quoting: Wotsits

yup...

i gotta say after reading whole thread imho everyone is kinda right, and wrong, including OP on both counts.

Iff rockets were ever to go to 'space' (as space is defined by NASHA and other space agencies), who knows what would happen? Nobody does, because nobody is able to do so or conceive of it, because it simply DOES NOT EXIST. Nature DOES abhor a vacuum. So do imaginations, it is inconceivable. People are very creative though for sure, clap clap all around, and the rest are... well...

sorry, not trying to offend anyone, conversation here has been great, except the senseless and meaningless insults tossed around here and there. it's a small world after all...
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Dragonchain