| Users Online Now: 1,803 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 854,861 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,401,470 | Threads Today: 553 | Posts Today: 8,881 |
| 02:39 PM | ||
| Users Online Now: 1,803 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 854,861 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,401,470 | Threads Today: 553 | Posts Today: 8,881 |
| 02:39 PM | ||
Rockets need an atmosphere to propel | |
| Balance242 Offer Upgrade  User ID: 76708078  Canada01/20/2019 11:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out. Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0. Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org] If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag. Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies. To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]  Balance242 |
| Pilgrim001 User ID: 77021014  United States01/20/2019 11:18 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you're saying that if you launch a nuclear missile at a satellite in space, and the nuke goes off 10ft away from the satellite, it won't damage the satellite because there is no atmosphere. It won't even knock it off course. Is that Correct? Last Edited by Bennder on 01/20/2019 11:20 AM I don't have the time or the crayons to explain this to you. Slake Blake |
| Union Jackboot User ID: 70883671  United Kingdom01/20/2019 11:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out. Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0. Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org] If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag. Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies. To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)] Ever heard of conservatiom of momentum? I guess not, because you ramble about forces, velocity and weight of coins. What do you think recoil is? When you fire a gun, the momentum of gases and bullet gives the gun an equal momentum in the opposite direction. It happens in atmosphere. It happens in vacuum. DON'T BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS WEBSITE! The reader is responsible for discerning the validity, factuality or implications of information posted here, be it fictional or based on real events. |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 11:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you're saying that if you launch a nuclear missile at a satellite in space, and the nuke goes off 10ft away from the satellite, it won't damage the satellite because there is no atmosphere. It won't even knock it off course. Is that Correct? Quoting: Pilgrim001 If the nuke simply creates pressure, then yes. But in reality there would be shrapnel, like a grenade. A firearm would only be a good analogy if using a blank. The combustion builds up between the bullet and the barrel. Like two blocks between a compressed spring, the spring pushes both blocks in opposite directions when the spring is uncompressed. A rocket is more like a compressed spring attached to one block. As the spring uncompresses, it only pushes the block as much as it pushes the air, not very much Balance242 |
| Sticker User ID: 47205736 United States01/20/2019 11:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Pilgrim001 User ID: 77021014 United States01/20/2019 11:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you're saying that if you launch a nuclear missile at a satellite in space, and the nuke goes off 10ft away from the satellite, it won't damage the satellite because there is no atmosphere. It won't even knock it off course. Is that Correct? Quoting: Pilgrim001 If the nuke simply creates pressure, then yes. But in reality there would be shrapnel, like a grenade. A firearm would only be a good analogy if using a blank. The combustion builds up between the bullet and the barrel. Like two blocks between a compressed spring, the spring pushes both blocks in opposite directions when the spring is uncompressed. A rocket is more like a compressed spring attached to one block. As the spring uncompresses, it only pushes the block as much as it pushes the air, not very much And the earth is flat, right? How does the sun get back to the east side of the flat earth to make the trip each day? Does it go around, underneath, and past the turtles holding the earth up to get back to starting position? I don't have the time or the crayons to explain this to you. Slake Blake |
| Nonentity User ID: 77013656 United States01/20/2019 11:58 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Huck Fillary User ID: 77222864 United States01/20/2019 12:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Michibama User ID: 75470477 United States01/20/2019 12:17 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you're saying that if you launch a nuclear missile at a satellite in space, and the nuke goes off 10ft away from the satellite, it won't damage the satellite because there is no atmosphere. It won't even knock it off course. Is that Correct? Quoting: Pilgrim001 If the nuke simply creates pressure, then yes. But in reality there would be shrapnel, like a grenade. A firearm would only be a good analogy if using a blank. The combustion builds up between the bullet and the barrel. Like two blocks between a compressed spring, the spring pushes both blocks in opposite directions when the spring is uncompressed. A rocket is more like a compressed spring attached to one block. As the spring uncompresses, it only pushes the block as much as it pushes the air, not very much And the earth is flat, right? How does the sun get back to the east side of the flat earth to make the trip each day? Does it go around, underneath, and past the turtles holding the earth up to get back to starting position? It's not a turtle. It's a toad. Whenever a toad swallows an insect, it uses its eyeballs to push the prey down its throat. So whenever a ship falls of the edge of the flat earth, the toad eats it, and as it's eyeball disappears you see the sun or moon. When the toad wakes up it's eyeball pops up, partially blocking the sun and or moon. That's how you get eclipses. Glad I could clear that up for you.  “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” |
| Agent Smith 2014 User ID: 51242102 United States01/20/2019 12:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| AnonCh4rl1 User ID: 77301317 United Kingdom01/20/2019 12:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Not sure if Trolling or Stupid, however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Your pipe analogy is stupid, The air would be removed and the weight of that air would be reflected in the scale weight, just because their is no air in the tube does not mean the penny is now massless, or can somehow overcome gravity. What airflow are you talking about? its either a vacuum chamber or a low pressure area, have you been taking meds and playing with vacuum cleaners?? |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 12:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out. Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0. Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org] If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag. Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies. To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)] Ever heard of conservatiom of momentum? I guess not, because you ramble about forces, velocity and weight of coins. What do you think recoil is? When you fire a gun, the momentum of gases and bullet gives the gun an equal momentum in the opposite direction. It happens in atmosphere. It happens in vacuum. Balance242 |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 12:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out. Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0. Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org] If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag. Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies. To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)] Ever heard of conservatiom of momentum? I guess not, because you ramble about forces, velocity and weight of coins. What do you think recoil is? When you fire a gun, the momentum of gases and bullet gives the gun an equal momentum in the opposite direction. It happens in atmosphere. It happens in vacuum. "No work is done, because the gas does not displace anything." [link to physics.bu.edu] Momentum is conserved when it the exhaust hits something like the atmosphere. Just like when you drop something, the momentum is conserved when it hits the ground. Balance242 |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 12:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Not sure if Trolling or Stupid, however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Your pipe analogy is stupid, The air would be removed and the weight of that air would be reflected in the scale weight, just because their is no air in the tube does not mean the penny is now massless, or can somehow overcome gravity. What airflow are you talking about? its either a vacuum chamber or a low pressure area, have you been taking meds and playing with vacuum cleaners?? Clearly the chamber is not a vacuum when you can see the buildup of smoke. You must be stupid to think a container filled with smoke can be under vacuum. Balance242 |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 12:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| OICU812 User ID: 76341441 United States01/20/2019 12:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Arawn User ID: 76119046 United States01/20/2019 12:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom01/20/2019 12:50 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 12:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 12:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you're saying that if you launch a nuclear missile at a satellite in space, and the nuke goes off 10ft away from the satellite, it won't damage the satellite because there is no atmosphere. It won't even knock it off course. Is that Correct? Quoting: Pilgrim001 If the nuke simply creates pressure, then yes. But in reality there would be shrapnel, like a grenade. A firearm would only be a good analogy if using a blank. The combustion builds up between the bullet and the barrel. Like two blocks between a compressed spring, the spring pushes both blocks in opposite directions when the spring is uncompressed. A rocket is more like a compressed spring attached to one block. As the spring uncompresses, it only pushes the block as much as it pushes the air, not very much And the earth is flat, right? How does the sun get back to the east side of the flat earth to make the trip each day? Does it go around, underneath, and past the turtles holding the earth up to get back to starting position? Why are you changing the subject. Because you have no proof that rockets can work without an atmosphere? Balance242 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77027273 United States01/20/2019 12:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | prove it! I disproved it using simple experiment. Why don't you use simple experiment to prove it. Rockets motors do not push against the atmosphere they push against the rocket body. simple test: put a scale on the pushed side of the rocket motor and measure the amount of force put the same scale on the exhaust side of the rocket motor and measure the force against the scale. The result will always be greater on the side to which the rocket moves (away from the exhaust) because of the effect of the rocket's thrust against the object it pushes through space and the atmosphere. |
| Arawn User ID: 76119046 United States01/20/2019 12:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Gelatinous Mass User ID: 73899585 United States01/20/2019 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Powder User ID: 72867575 United States01/20/2019 01:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | prove it! I disproved it using simple experiment. Why don't you use simple experiment to prove it. Rockets motors do not push against the atmosphere they push against the rocket body. simple test: put a scale on the pushed side of the rocket motor and measure the amount of force put the same scale on the exhaust side of the rocket motor and measure the force against the scale. The result will always be greater on the side to which the rocket moves (away from the exhaust) because of the effect of the rocket's thrust against the object it pushes through space and the atmosphere. There is no force. Air and other objects move out of the pipe, mass expelled, there is no opposite reaction on the scale. You can do this yourself at home. Make a container with your hand and see if you feel the opposite reaction. When wind blows towards your back, the air in front of your face also moves away from your face, did you feel the opposite reaction on your face? Balance242 |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 01:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | F = m dot * Ve + (pe - p0) * Ae Quoting: Arawn This should explain it all, since obviously, you are a rocket-scientist... Anyone can make an equation. The equation has to explain reality. Why didn't I see an opposite force on the scale when i removed the air and other objects from the pipe? Balance242 |
| Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom01/20/2019 01:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Arawn User ID: 76119046 United States01/20/2019 01:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | F = m dot * Ve + (pe - p0) * Ae Quoting: Arawn This should explain it all, since obviously, you are a rocket-scientist... Anyone can make an equation. The equation has to explain reality. Why didn't I see an opposite force on the scale when i removed the air and other objects from the pipe?  |
| Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom01/20/2019 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada01/20/2019 01:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | F = m dot * Ve + (pe - p0) * Ae Quoting: Arawn This should explain it all, since obviously, you are a rocket-scientist... Anyone can make an equation. The equation has to explain reality. Why didn't I see an opposite force on the scale when i removed the air and other objects from the pipe? then prove it. Every other equation explains reality but this one doesn't. Name calling rather than a sufficient explanation is the result of lying. Balance242 |
| hotdogg User ID: 4448622 United States01/20/2019 01:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, your internet connection and TV likely depend on satellite in space. Been putting stuff into orbit since the late 50s. It an action/reaction thing...when you accelerate mass in one direction, there is a reaction which proportionally accelerates the host body in the opposite direction....simple, proven physics. Spacewalking astronauts deal with this problem every time they go out...thus all the handholds on the outside of the ISS. The "work" of an engine firing in a vacuum is all done in the nozzle, efficiently accelerating the mass aft to create a forward force. |
