Rockets need an atmosphere to propel | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77027273 United States 01/21/2019 07:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Masiro® "For every action there is an opposite reaction." That is a fundamental law of physics 101. Also known as Newton's third law of motion, it explains why things move because of the force applied to them. Like the wind against my face for instance. Simple question: What pushes the wind against my face? By your reasoning because the atmosphere is there I should not feel anything and there should be no movement. The pennies in the tube lift because of the sudden rush of air out the tube, but if the vacuum process is slowed down to a point where the extraction of the gases in the tube isn't enough to lift the penny, then the penny won't move at all. The variable in your experiment is the speed at which you extract the air inside the tube, you are doing it at a high speed fast enough to raise the weight of a penny. The movement is simply due to pressure difference. This movement is not the same as throwing or pushing an object. If the air flow is strong enough to lift the penny, the force must be at least greater than the normal force of the penny. But this is not seen on the scale, therefore, equal and opposite reaction does not happen. I see you are still confused... The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises. It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors. “The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying. Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77287426 United States 01/21/2019 07:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out. Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0. Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org] If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag. Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies. To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)] space is not a vacumn.. it is full of stuff.. if it were a vacumn NOTHING WOULD EXIST as planets.. suns etc... the PRESSURE OF COLD SPACE MAKES SUNS etc... ROUND. |
SARCGASMS User ID: 70989102 United States 01/21/2019 07:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
SARCGASMS User ID: 70989102 United States 01/21/2019 07:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Simple proof, rockets don’t work in space vacuum: get a pipe with only one side open. Put closed face down on a scale. Remove the air from the pipe with vacuum. Where is the opposite force on the scale? I didn’t see it. Quoting: Balance242 Now lets say you put an object, let say a few pennies that weight approx 3 grams each. Now the airflow is strong enough to lift those pennies against gravity. Shouldn’t I see a force greater than the normal force of the pennies? Source from nasa states that the force it takes for the mass to move out from the rocket, is applied equally and oppositely on the rocket. Now the pipe experiment disproves this as there is no evidence of opposite force onto scale when air or even objects in the pipe move out. Additionally, Joules expansion shows that no work is done when gas expands into a vacuum. Furthermore, thermodynamics states. Work=-external pressure *change in volume. If external pressure of space is 0, work done is 0. Furthermore, NASA tends to concentrate on velocity rather than flow rate. Use of a nozzle. A smaller diameter pipe, increases the velocity, but leaves the flow rate unchanged. Flow rate is dependent on pressure differential. [link to www.1728.org] If velocity (meters per second) is of importance rather than flow (kilograms/second), it makes more sense that the gas pushes off the atmosphere. Similarly, a car going at faster speed would generally have more drag. Just like energy is required to move objects to a higher height (gravitational potential), energy is required to create pressure (energy from combustion). Therefore gravity and pressure are both potential energies. To sum it all up, when you drop an object from a height, there is no opposite reaction on your hand because gravity causes a force (Force=mass*acceleration). Similarly, pressure gradient also causes a force [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)] space is not a vacumn.. it is full of stuff.. if it were a vacumn NOTHING WOULD EXIST as planets.. suns etc... the PRESSURE OF COLD SPACE MAKES SUNS etc... ROUND. Ok i take it back, the fact you said space has pressure and is not a vacuum is up there too |
Tombstone User ID: 77305533 South Africa 01/21/2019 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure. The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE. There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0. So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero) In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside. THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE. THERE IS NO SUCTION. Jesus people have become dumb. THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. ........... The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice. |
Tombstone User ID: 77305533 South Africa 01/21/2019 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE. There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0. So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero) In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside. THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE. THERE IS NO SUCTION. Jesus people have become dumb. THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. ........... The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice. |
Tombstone User ID: 77305533 South Africa 01/21/2019 08:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure. Quoting: Tombstone The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE. There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0. So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero) In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside. THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE. THERE IS NO SUCTION. Jesus people have become dumb. THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. ........... The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice. Dummies think that a vacuum which has a pressure of ZERO causes suction, when in fact the basics is merely that a high pressure flows to a low pressure. Rockets fly even better in space than on earth, because the pressure differential is higher. Fuck I can't believe I'm wasting my time on low IQ shit like this. I feel fucking stupid for doing so. Stupid people must just fuck off and realize that because they are stupid, they never realize that they are stupid, because they are too stupid to realize that they are stupid. |
Tombstone User ID: 77305533 South Africa 01/21/2019 08:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure. Quoting: Tombstone The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE. There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0. So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero) In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside. THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE. THERE IS NO SUCTION. Jesus people have become dumb. THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. ........... The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice. Dummies think that a vacuum which has a pressure of ZERO causes suction, when in fact the basics is merely that a high pressure flows to a low pressure. Rockets fly even better in space than on earth, because the pressure differential is higher. Fuck I can't believe I'm wasting my time on low IQ shit like this. I feel fucking stupid for doing so. Stupid people must just fuck off and realize that because they are stupid, they never realize that they are stupid, because they are too stupid to realize that they are stupid. |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 08:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Balance242 The movement is simply due to pressure difference. This movement is not the same as throwing or pushing an object. If the air flow is strong enough to lift the penny, the force must be at least greater than the normal force of the penny. But this is not seen on the scale, therefore, equal and opposite reaction does not happen. I see you are still confused... The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises. It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors. “The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying. Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny. Balance242 |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 08:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Masiro® I see you are still confused... The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises. It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors. “The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying. Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny. [link to www.mansfieldct.org (secure)] Balance242 |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 08:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 08:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Pressure flows from a high pressure to a low pressure. Quoting: Tombstone The problem with dummies is that they do not understand the basics and the basics is this....PRESSURE FLOWS FROM A HIGH PRESSURE TO A LOW PRESSURE. There is no suction in space, because pressure in space is 0. So if you have a spaceship with a small hole in it, the air would escape. The air flow would be determined by the pressure inside (atmospheric pressure ) minus the pressure outside. (zero) In the case of a space ship with a small hole, it would be atmospheric pressure inside, minus the ZERO air pressure outside. THERE IS NO SUCTION. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. IN THE CASE OF ROCKETS, THE AIR PRESSURE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS MASSIVE AND IT FLOWS FROM THE HIGH PRESSURE TO THE LOW PRESSURE. THERE IS NO SUCTION. Jesus people have become dumb. THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION THERE IS NO SUCTION PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. PRESSURE FLOWS FROM HIGH TO LOW. ........... The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice. Who’s disagreeing about high pressure moving to low pressure? High pressure in rocket, low pressure in space=movement. Low pressure in vacuum hose, high pressure in pipe = movement. So essentially what you said has no relevance Balance242 |
DeplorableOldMan User ID: 76928898 United States 01/21/2019 08:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 08:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, expanding gasses exert force against the inside of the rocket engine thereby forcing the ship to move in the opposite direction. This is a very simple concept. Quoting: DeplorableOldMan For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Then why no opposite force on the scale? Gas expanded out of the pipe but no reaction Balance242 |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 01/21/2019 09:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, expanding gasses exert force against the inside of the rocket engine thereby forcing the ship to move in the opposite direction. This is a very simple concept. Quoting: DeplorableOldMan For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Then why no opposite force on the scale? Gas expanded out of the pipe but no reaction There's a full atmosphere of pressure all around the piper pipe and the pipe itself has very little gas in it. It's a meaningless broken analogy. Rockets do work in space. I've filmed it myself, it's not even debatable, it's an observable fact. |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 01/21/2019 09:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 09:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wrong. Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself. Proof using simple experiment would be more accurate. Balance242 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77027273 United States 01/21/2019 09:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Masiro® I see you are still confused... The penny moves because of the (Giovanni Battista) Venturi principle, which describes how lift is created by a difference in air pressure, or that when air pressure is lower on one side of an object than the other that low pressure side rises. It's why wings work and has nothing to do with rocket motors. “The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying. Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny. Read it again... I underlined the important part for you. A vacuum cleaner nozzle will lift objects when it gets closer to them. The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with. Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong. |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 09:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Balance242 “The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying. Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny. Read it again... I underlined the important part for you. A vacuum cleaner nozzle with lift objects when it gets closer to them. The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with. Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong. Low pressure doesn’t suck. High pressure moves to low pressure. Read the post above where the poster repeatedly states Vaccum is not suction Balance242 |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 01/21/2019 09:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wrong. Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself. Proof using simple experiment would be more accurate. Your so called experiment is not more accurate. My observation is more accurate. |
Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom 01/21/2019 09:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked. However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together? |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 09:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it. Quoting: Mike in Southampton So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked. However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together? Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice Balance242 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77027273 United States 01/21/2019 09:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Masiro® Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny. Read it again... I underlined the important part for you. A vacuum cleaner nozzle with lift objects when it gets closer to them. The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with. Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong. Low pressure doesn’t suck. High pressure moves to low pressure. Read the post above where the poster repeatedly states Vaccum is not suction So what you are saying is that the penny rises because it is denser than the air around it (high pressure) because there is no such thing as suction despite a century of proof that Venturi's principle works. and that rockets fly into space because the pressure of the atmosphere is less at higher altitudes and the rocket rise into space because of the density of the air because the lack of air pressure overcomes gravity... And it has nothing to do with the ungodly amount of thrust coming out of the rocket motor pushing against the body of the missile. |
Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom 01/21/2019 09:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it. Quoting: Mike in Southampton So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked. However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together? Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed? |
fixxxer User ID: 77306555 Jordan 01/21/2019 11:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So if I was standing on a perfectly frictionless airless ice rink for example and threw a basketball away from me what would happen OP? Nothing? Or something? Work it out yourself. Quoting: watwick go with me on this one , in a complete vacuum where theres zero other force working on an object, can it be said that the object has no inertia ? so the object does not resist movement to any direction, since it has zero potential energy? is that correct ? maybe newtons 3rd law only applies to object that have inertia, where an object resists force applied to it. but if the object does not resist the force then there is no opposite reaction so in your example of a completely frictionless airless ice rink, ( i will add gravity-less) , maybe you dont actually move if you throw a ball away from you, the whole energy is used to propel the ball forward and there was no resistance at all to your movement so no force acts back on you yea its ok call me dumb and whatever, im just trying to understand. also im just looking at it objectively and dont stand with or against either statements sometimes the truth is easier to find in the reaction rather than the picture |
The Rickest Rick Sanchez User ID: 73226681 United States 01/21/2019 11:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well.... you are wrong. Check your premise. The universe is basically an animal. It grazes on the ordinary. It creates infinite idiots just to eat them. The Rickest Rick Sanchez comments are meant for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed to reflect the feelings and opinions, implied or expressed, of the author. |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 12:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Balance242 “The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section (or choke) of a pipe.” That is how the nozzle works. I already explained how the nozzle favours the fact that the exhaust pushes off the atmosphere. Regardless, a force greater than the force of gravity in the penny must be generated to lift the penny against gravity. I didn’t see that opposite force, therefore you are lying. Air is a "fluid" because it's density can be changed by speed or pressure. Because a wing is curved on top, air speeds up, creating a lower pressure(like the air being rapidly sucked out of the penny tube) and that lower pressure creates lift and the wing rises accordingly. I would be lying if I created an entirely different reason for the penny to lift say anti gravity cretin particles... Simple Test: put a penny on the floor, use a vacuum nozzle to try to pick it up starting a foot away from the penny and getting closer until the suction (lower air pressure) lifts it even without your tube over it. Low pressure doesn’t create lift high pressure does. High pressure moves to low pressure. Higher the altitude the lower the pressure. If the vacuum hose is a foot away, you are not creating a pressure difference near the penny. Read it again... I underlined the important part for you. A vacuum cleaner nozzle will lift objects when it gets closer to them. The Venturi principle is why vacuum cleaners work to begin with. Once you understand why a penny lifts in your simple experiment, you will understand why your conclusions are wrong. Are you insane? Venturi principle is pressure changes of fluid flow through different diameters of pipe. Has nothing to due with why the penny is lifted. [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)] Penny lifts because the airflow from the pipe into the vacuum is strong enough to lift the penny. Balance242 |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it. Quoting: Mike in Southampton So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked. However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together? Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed? How do I know the ISS isn’t simply a balloon or airplane? Balance242 |
Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom 01/21/2019 12:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My god, this thread is still going? 'Depressingly stupid' doesn't even cover it. Quoting: Mike in Southampton So op, unlike Astro, I have to admit I've never actually seen a rocket travel in space. Obviously I've watched videos and tv etc but you will doubtless say they are all faked. However, I have seen with my own eyes the space station traveling overhead (very cool experience btw). What's your explanation of how all the parts it's composed of got into LEO in the first place, and how did they maneuver those parts around so they could lock them together? Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed? How do I know the ISS isn’t simply a balloon or airplane? What you do know can be written on the back of a postage stamp with room left over. If you're going to troll, at least make it entertaining. |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 12:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So if I was standing on a perfectly frictionless airless ice rink for example and threw a basketball away from me what would happen OP? Nothing? Or something? Work it out yourself. Quoting: watwick go with me on this one , in a complete vacuum where theres zero other force working on an object, can it be said that the object has no inertia ? so the object does not resist movement to any direction, since it has zero potential energy? is that correct ? maybe newtons 3rd law only applies to object that have inertia, where an object resists force applied to it. but if the object does not resist the force then there is no opposite reaction so in your example of a completely frictionless airless ice rink, ( i will add gravity-less) , maybe you dont actually move if you throw a ball away from you, the whole energy is used to propel the ball forward and there was no resistance at all to your movement so no force acts back on you yea its ok call me dumb and whatever, im just trying to understand. also im just looking at it objectively and dont stand with or against either statements Throwing a ball and gas moving due to pressure differential are not the same. This is where people get confused. Just like movement due to gravity doesn’t push back until it hits he grOund or something else, the gas doesn’t push back until it hits the atmosphere or something else. Gravity and pressure gradient are not the same as pushing a wall or throwing a ball Balance242 |