Rockets need an atmosphere to propel | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 12:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Balance242 Again, a Simple experiment showing this phenomena of propulsion without an atmosphere would suffice No, I want to hear your explanation. If you say rockets can't work in space, how was the ISS constructed? How do I know the ISS isn’t simply a balloon or airplane? What you do know can be written on the back of a postage stamp with room left over. If you're going to troll, at least make it entertaining. Again not proof Balance242 |
Overgoverned User ID: 52594113 United States 01/21/2019 02:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The problem with the internet is that it gives depressingly stupid people an anonymous voice. Quoting: Tombstone No child should be left behind. Inclusion now! Nature allegedly abhors a vacuum, but OP is blissfully unaware that nature doesn't much care for the zero-pressure environment within his cranium. Smoke another bowl or ten, OP. The damage has already been done. |
Dillmiester User ID: 77154896 United States 01/21/2019 02:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Mike in Southampton User ID: 77177514 United Kingdom 01/21/2019 03:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Pilgrim001 User ID: 77021014 United States 01/21/2019 04:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let me explain how a rocket engine works. Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated. The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the higher pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas. Last Edited by Bennder on 01/21/2019 04:22 PM Communism is for LOSERS Communism is SLAVERY Fuck Joe Biden |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 04:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let me explain how a rocket engine works. Quoting: Pilgrim001 Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated. The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas. If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale. Balance242 |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 04:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 01/21/2019 04:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wrong. Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut The booster rockets completely null their horizontal velocity while in space and then come back to land at the launch site. Ergo, rockets do not need an atmosphere to propel themselves. Do not accuse this footage of being fake. I filmed it myself. Proof using simple experiment would be more accurate. Your so called experiment is not more accurate. My observation is more accurate. Proof. |
Pilgrim001 User ID: 77021014 United States 01/21/2019 04:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let me explain how a rocket engine works. Quoting: Pilgrim001 Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated. The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas. If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale. You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong. Communism is for LOSERS Communism is SLAVERY Fuck Joe Biden |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 58940332 Canada 01/21/2019 04:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let me explain how a rocket engine works. Quoting: Pilgrim001 Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated. The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas. If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale. You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong. Well you only if you could demonstrate using simple experiment Balance242 |
I hate you User ID: 73448750 United States 01/21/2019 04:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Frumpelstiltskin User ID: 77177702 United States 01/21/2019 04:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb. --'-,{@ |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77291193 United Kingdom 01/21/2019 05:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Dillmiester User ID: 77154896 United States 01/21/2019 05:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I knew you were gonna say that. They always try to use the premise of if I or you havent personally seen it then it must be fake! Its a international conspiracy and nothing thats been observed or validated by thousands of independent researchers, engineers, enthusiasts matters. Have you or I ever personally seen a nuclear bomb detonated? No but im pretty sure that we can agree that its effects are most certainely real and well documented as complex as thier construction, and physics principles of operation are to understand. Explain your expirement set up in more detail then you can really quantify its flaws. |
Pilgrim001 User ID: 77021014 United States 01/21/2019 05:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let me explain how a rocket engine works. Quoting: Pilgrim001 Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated. The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas. If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale. You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong. Well you only if you could demonstrate using simple experiment I don't need to. You will not accept anything, and I consider it Settled Science. I am retired and My next "experiment" will be baking a Rum cake. Communism is for LOSERS Communism is SLAVERY Fuck Joe Biden |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/21/2019 07:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb. Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin Again, fluid movement due to pressure differential is not the same mechanism as throwing a ball. Balance242 |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/21/2019 07:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/21/2019 07:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Balance242 If gas is released from the container, the entire container reduces in pressure. From you analogy, the bottom of the pipe is the bulkhead pressure which should push on the scale. You will not accept anything except your own concept. This post was for others that might not understand the physics involved in a rocket engine. What I said is True. What you are saying is wrong. Well you only if you could demonstrate using simple experiment I don't need to. You will not accept anything, and I consider it Settled Science. I am retired and My next "experiment" will be baking a Rum cake. When your cake rises, does it push down on the oven? Anyways thanks for showing that there is no proof of rockets working in space. Balance242 |
hotdogg User ID: 4448622 United States 01/21/2019 07:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb. Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin Again, fluid movement due to pressure differential is not the same mechanism as throwing a ball. false...they both involv1er accelerating mass, and the resulting reaction....every action has an equal and opposite reaction...same thing applies to rocket engines accelerating hot gasses out of the engines, propelling the craft in the opposite vector... |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/21/2019 08:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're floating in a zero-g vacuum, holding a bowling ball. You push the bowling ball away from you as hard as you can. If you were correct, the bowling ball would move away from you, but your position in space would remain unchanged. You're clearly wrong and dumb. Quoting: Frumpelstiltskin Again, fluid movement due to pressure differential is not the same mechanism as throwing a ball. false...they both involv1er accelerating mass, and the resulting reaction....every action has an equal and opposite reaction...same thing applies to rocket engines accelerating hot gasses out of the engines, propelling the craft in the opposite vector... When you drop a ball from your hand from a height, is there an opposite reaction in your hand when the ball falls? Doesn’t it involve accelerating mass? Balance242 |
TGus User ID: 74764022 United States 01/21/2019 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/21/2019 08:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're mistake is in thinking that reaction mass must push against something, like we swim in the water. Actually propellant throws mass in the opposite direction of travel, using conservation of momentum to move ahead. (Please look this up.) The faster and heavier the propellant, the better. Quoting: TGus This was disproven by the pipe experiment. Mass was expelled out of the pipe and therefore according to you there should be an opposite force, but this is not seen. Perhaps you can think of a simple experiment showing that rockets do work in space. Balance242 |
Dillmiester User ID: 77154896 United States 01/21/2019 10:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
fixxxer User ID: 77306555 Jordan 01/22/2019 12:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let me explain how a rocket engine works. Quoting: Pilgrim001 Consider a cylinder( or any shape) combustion cylinder of an appropriate size, without any escape port for expanding gases. Imagine letting kerosene or any other fuel into the cylinder, along with some liquid oxygen to quickly oxidize the fuel. If it ignites (explodes) without an escape, the pressure inside the combustion chambers rises to an equilibrium. For funsies, say 5000 lbs/sq in is generated. The cylinder won't move in any direction, with 5000/lbs sq in against the walls. IF A MEANS OF ESCAPE IS PROVIDED (the exhaust nozzel) the pressure at that spot(of the nozzle) is immediately reduced as the explosion leaves the chamber. HOWEVER, at the opposite end of the chamber(opposite the escape nozzle , the pressure against the chamber bulkhead is still nominally 5000/lbs sq in. It is the higher pressure against the forward bulkhead that pushes the chamber in one direction. If there is no atmosphere outside of the chamber, the gas can escape even faster allowing the combustion to (maybe) provide MORE pressure against the forward bulkhead. The jet of the engine "pushing against the atmosphere" means nothing. That jet is just waste gas. finally someone with a right explanation of rockets. but i still think this has nothing to do with newton and his 3rd law. its pressure driven and not action/reaction driven. if it is action/reaction driven, it would not work in a vacuum like OP said sometimes the truth is easier to find in the reaction rather than the picture |
hotdogg User ID: 4448622 United States 01/22/2019 12:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77305190 United States 01/22/2019 12:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] |
Arawn User ID: 72759041 United States 01/22/2019 02:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/22/2019 06:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're full of shit dude. I've argued against people like you for years. Not going to educate you too. Please understand physics and the de Laval nozzle before making such baseless claims. Heck, even myth busters proved you and your ilk are full of shit. Quoting: Seeker of Truth [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] So you’re saying that rockets only work in space because of the de_laval nozzle? Balance242 |
Balance242 (OP) User ID: 76708078 Canada 01/22/2019 06:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72063207 United Kingdom 01/22/2019 06:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If rockets don't work in vacuum, explain exactly how satellites get into orbit...with details, please. Quoting: hotdogg seems a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than the trillions paid to NAZA and Elong Moist!!! anyway, regardless ... satellites aren't in 'space' - low earth orbit or in Exosphere not the vacuum of space (cos rockets dont work there - despite what Disney and Chicom showed you!) |