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What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.

 
rod777
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What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Listen to this and decide.

I agree with him, it is the resurrection, not the bible that is the center of our Christianity.


rod777  (OP)

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Reading his book now, it's really good.


[link to www.amazon.com (secure)]
Sum Ting Wong

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01/23/2019 06:08 PM
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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Christ is the center.

And Andy Stanley is questionable. Be careful.
rod777  (OP)

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Christ is the center.

And Andy Stanley is questionable. Be careful.
 Quoting: Sum Ting Wong



Listen and read then judge for yourself.

Forget what others are saying as they criticize him, people even criticized Jesus, so that means nothing.

I see NOTHING wrong with what he has written in his book or said in above video.
Rayelle

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01/23/2019 06:35 PM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
You think reading his book will encourage young people to read the Old Testament? To try to understand it?

The few young people I know say they "don't like the OT because of all the animal killing" and God's wrath and all the bloody war stories.
They seem to be unable to understand the principles of atonement for sin in those days. It distresses them to hear of the severe culture, of women being "sold like cattle" & men having slaves and many wives & concubines.

Their modern belief system cannot accept these stories as anything of value to learn and understand.
They flat-out reject it.

Modern kids cannot fathom the ideas of a religious culture that is so ready to stone people to death.

I've been seeing a falling away for many years because the younger people are unable to comprehend a God of Love in the OT. They want nothing to do with a God that punishes.

Arguing does not work.

Last Edited by Rayelle on 01/23/2019 09:57 PM
Ozric

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
The whole Christ part...

The Gospels... and coming to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, and the belief, faith, trust and reliance that comes along with that commitment....
I do exist, I'm pretty sure :)
Sum Ting Wong

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Christ is the center.

And Andy Stanley is questionable. Be careful.
 Quoting: Sum Ting Wong



Listen and read then judge for yourself.

Forget what others are saying as they criticize him, people even criticized Jesus, so that means nothing.

I see NOTHING wrong with what he has written in his book or said in above video.

 Quoting: rod777

I used to go to his church in Atl. I like his dad fine, but Andy seems a little too prosperity/name it claim it for me. Buncha fluff. I'm not judging, but he's not for me.
Rayelle

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01/23/2019 10:04 PM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
At about 14 minutes into the video I stopped listening to him.
I do not want to finish the rest.

The Bible is THE WORD OF GOD.
Mygirl

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
The Messiah...the living God...Jesus is way, truth, life
Mygirl
TheLordsServant

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01/23/2019 10:56 PM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
This sums it up better than anything else.

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
WOLF*

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
You think reading his book will encourage young people to read the Old Testament? To try to understand it?

The few young people I know say they "don't like the OT because of all the animal killing" and God's wrath and all the bloody war stories.
They seem to be unable to understand the principles of atonement for sin in those days. It distresses them to hear of the severe culture, of women being "sold like cattle" & men having slaves and many wives & concubines.

Their modern belief system cannot accept these stories as anything of value to learn and understand.
They flat-out reject it.

Modern kids cannot fathom the ideas of a religious culture that is so ready to stone people to death.

I've been seeing a falling away for many years because the younger people are unable to comprehend a God of Love in the OT. They want nothing to do with a God that punishes.

Arguing does not work.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Tell us the value and principles behind bludgeoning women to death with stones for various non-violent offenses?

How about the value and principles behind ordering rapists to marry their rape victims and never divorce them?

Executing people for wearing mixed fabrics, and for working the wrong day of the week?

The values and principles behind raiding villages, slaughtering the adults, boys, and non-virgin girls - and taking the virgin girls captive as 'spoils of war' to be 'ravished' (raped) or traded to other tribes (human trafficking)...

???

Please tell us exactly what 'young people' are supposed to learn and gain from reading stories about such carnal-minded human behavior occurring thousands of years ago...

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Last Edited by WOLF* on 01/23/2019 11:16 PM
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Rayelle

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01/23/2019 11:25 PM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
You think reading his book will encourage young people to read the Old Testament? To try to understand it?

The few young people I know say they "don't like the OT because of all the animal killing" and God's wrath and all the bloody war stories.
They seem to be unable to understand the principles of atonement for sin in those days. It distresses them to hear of the severe culture, of women being "sold like cattle" & men having slaves and many wives & concubines.

Their modern belief system cannot accept these stories as anything of value to learn and understand.
They flat-out reject it.

Modern kids cannot fathom the ideas of a religious culture that is so ready to stone people to death.

I've been seeing a falling away for many years because the younger people are unable to comprehend a God of Love in the OT. They want nothing to do with a God that punishes.

Arguing does not work.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Tell us the value and principles behind bludgeoning women to death with stones for various non-violent offenses?

How about the value and principles behind ordering rapists to marry their rape victims and never divorce them?

Executing people for wearing mixed fabrics, and for working the wrong day of the week?

The values and principles behind raiding villages, slaughtering the adults, boys, and non-virgin girls - and taking the virgin girls captive as 'spoils of war' to be 'ravished' (raped) or traded to other trades (human trafficking)...

Please tell us exactly what 'young people' are supposed to learn and gain from reading stories about such carnal-minded human behavior occurring thousands of years ago...
 Quoting: WOLF*


Sorry, I cannot explain this to you. But I will try.

When a person is called by God, they come to Him.

He called me and I answered. I became born again.

That means that God gave me HIS SPIRIT in order to understand and be able to walk the spiritual walk WITH HIM. By abiding in HIM.
God gives an ability to be able to comprehend the Word of God (the Bible) giving insight into the scripture... if a person studies and asks for wisdom. That person GETS it.
Ask and you shall receive. I ask. He gives.

It is most sad to watch children who were raised to believe in God turn away.
It is heart-breaking, in fact.

But it's true. God is very, very strict. He is holy.
A person has to be very serious to follow Jesus. You know, the "straight and narrow" Way.

Many are called. Again and again.
They choose not to come to God based on the above topics that I addressed above.
Some choose drugs, sexual or other behaviors that God does not tolerate.
Its easy to live here without God.

It's much harder to obey God and live your life for HIM.

It's worth it. Beyond what I can ever explain to you.

I gotta go take my dog for his last walk before beddy bye.
R.
WOLF*

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Sorry, I cannot explain this to you. But I will try.

When a person is called by God, they come to Him.

He called me and I answered. I became born again.

That means that God gave me HIS SPIRIT in order to understand and be able to walk the spiritual walk WITH HIM. By abiding in HIM.
God gives an ability to be able to comprehend the Word of God (the Bible) giving insight into the scripture... if a person studies and asks for wisdom. That person GETS it.
Ask and you shall receive. I ask. He gives.

It is most sad to watch children who were raised to believe in God turn away.
It is heart-breaking, in fact.

But it's true. God is very, very strict. He is holy.
A person has to be very serious to follow Jesus. You know, the "straight and narrow" Way.

Many are called. Again and again.
They choose not to come to God based on the above topics that I addressed above.
Some choose drugs, sexual or other behaviors that God does not tolerate.
Its easy to live here without God.

It's much harder to obey God and live your life for HIM.

It's worth it. Beyond what I can ever explain to you.

I gotta go take my dog for his last walk before beddy bye.
R.
 Quoting: Rayelle


No where in this long response did you make any attempt to explain the values and principles behind bludgeoning people to death with stones for various non-violent offenses... No where did you explain the virtues behind instructing rapists to marry their victims... Or the lessons to be learned from reading about tribes raiding villages and slaughtering everyone but the traumatized virgin girls, who were treated as property, raped, forced into marriages, trafficked to other tribes... All of these actions were sanctioned/instructed/commanded by the 'god character' portrayed in the narrative...

I would bet a large some of money that if someone handled you a holy book from another religion, and it had similar stories about some other cultures engaging in similar reprehensible behavior - you would not claim that there was any value in that book and in reading such stories from that book. You would not proclaim that we can benefit from reading about those types of stories in any religious text not your own. Why? Because of religion-inspired bias of course... And adherents from other religions would do just the same - as it is a psychological consequence of religious conditioning...

Last Edited by WOLF* on 01/23/2019 11:35 PM
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TheLordsServant

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01/24/2019 12:00 AM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
No where in this long response did you make any attempt to explain the values and principles behind bludgeoning people to death with stones for various non-violent offenses... No where did you explain the virtues behind instructing rapists to marry their victims... Or the lessons to be learned from reading about tribes raiding villages and slaughtering everyone but the traumatized virgin girls, who were treated as property, raped, forced into marriages, trafficked to other tribes... All of these actions were sanctioned/instructed/commanded by the 'god character' portrayed in the narrative...

I would bet a large some of money that if someone handled you a holy book from another religion, and it had similar stories about some other cultures engaging in similar reprehensible behavior - you would not claim that there was any value in that book and in reading such stories from that book. You would not proclaim that we can benefit from reading about those types of stories in any religious text not your own. Why? Because of religion-inspired bias of course... And adherents from other religions would do just the same - as it is a psychological consequence of religious conditioning...
 Quoting: WOLF*


God is creator of ALL existence.

He can do whatever He wants to.

You think you're so much better than God.

I call bullshit.

You ain't nothing but another sinner...no different than the rest of us.

You might as well go and join the rest of the Social Justice Warriors.

GOATGOATGOAT

safecombat
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
rod777  (OP)

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01/24/2019 12:05 AM
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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
At about 14 minutes into the video I stopped listening to him.
I do not want to finish the rest.

The Bible is THE WORD OF GOD.
 Quoting: Rayelle




He agrees the bible is the word, but we have to see the bible addresses the spoken and the written word, one came WAYYYYYY before the other.

Genesis Ch1 and John Ch1, speak of the same thing. God SPOKE and the worlds became (That is the true word of God).

Then THAT WORD "BECAME" flesh.

Then hundreds of years later the bible became available after the printing press...So for hundreds of years, before the bible was available, what sustained the believes who had no bible, and the larger percentage that could NOT read.

It was the Spirit, which was available to those who are sons, BECAUSE Jesus died and rose again.

So the emphasis is on, what was first, and that is the foundation, and that is what Andy is trying to get us to look back to.
WOLF*

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01/24/2019 12:09 AM
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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
God is creator of ALL existence.

He can do whatever He wants to.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Reads as, "This character from this book written by other humans is the creator of all existence. This character from this book written by humans can do whatever he wants to"

Do you have an actual convincing argument to offer?

You think you're so much better than God.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


I'll invite you to explain how I can possibly think I'm better than a character I perceive to be a human creation?

That's like me accusing you of thinking you're better than Spiderman...

I call bullshit.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Bullshit like the talking donkey in the bible? Why don't you call bullshit on that when I previously asked you whether that was literal and actually happened?

You ain't nothing but another sinner...no different than the rest of us.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Since the religious dogma claims everyone is a 'sinner' and you can never not be a 'sinner' - therefore calling someone a 'sinner' accounts for nothing... It has described nothing... You might as well replace 'sinner' with 'human' because you've just accomplished the same by relying on such non-descript labels that apparently apply to everyone...

And please find one post of mine over the last 8 years where I ever claimed to be better than anyone? Go ahead and try to find one post... *crickets*

You had an emotional reaction to something I don't even think/believe.... Assumptions are not your friend... Nor is it wise to bear false witness against others... Try again...

Last Edited by WOLF* on 01/24/2019 12:10 AM
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TheLordsServant

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Please tell us exactly what 'young people' are supposed to learn and gain from reading stories about such carnal-minded human behavior occurring thousands of years ago...
 Quoting: WOLF*


This is coming whether you believe it or not.

I suggest you get ready.

endofdays

dayofthelord
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
WOLF*

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01/24/2019 12:12 AM
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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Then hundreds of years later the bible became available after the printing press...So for hundreds of years, before the bible was available, what sustained the believes who had no bible, and the larger percentage that could NOT read.
 Quoting: rod777


You are smart to mention this Rod...
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WOLF*

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Please tell us exactly what 'young people' are supposed to learn and gain from reading stories about such carnal-minded human behavior occurring thousands of years ago...
 Quoting: WOLF*


This is coming whether you believe it or not.

I suggest you get ready.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Another non-response? Why is it you guys cannot answer the difficult questions when challenged with them?

Oh and your religion-inspired expectations and beliefs are not my realty... You can believe whatever you want is coming -just looking at how history has played out, you will join good company among those who already lived and died making the exact same claims....

Not to mention, the Muslims claim their own narrative is coming, the Hebrews claim their own narrative is coming, the other religions as well... What's the one thing they all have in common? What they claim is going to happen, never does... Generation, after generation... Religion is the culprit...
The Golden Rule
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Rayelle

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
You're right.
I did not explain about why God allowed stoning, striking a person dead (like, for touching the Ark of the Covenant) and the various other mass deaths and singular exceptional sufferings that God delivered. Yes. God is severe.

He is wrathful when sin overtakes a person or a city or His Chosen people.
He hates sin and He sent his prophets to WARN the people that they were becoming wicked.
He would warn the again and again
He gave them mercy over and over.

They people were finally were begging for it.

God destroyed His own people because they were sacrificing their babies to Molach.
They had orgies.
They carved other gods .. made outta wood, stone and worshipped these idols.
They burned inscense and prayed to demonic gods.

So God whacked them.
And He whacked anybody who was an adulterer or fornicator or deviant or whatever sin that was worthy of death.

ALL the people's sins had to ATONED for (so they could go into the temple and be clean again) and so....

GOD DEMANDS A BLOOD SACRIFICE for sin. He demands it. Those animals had their throats slit by the person who sinned. It was ugly. They felt that little lamb die. Because they SINNED. The sacrifice was horrible in order to make a person aware how much God hates sin.

So, when Jesus showed up.. they should have been so happy because there was NO MORE ANIMAL sacrafices and no more obeying the letter of the Law.
Jesus completely fufilled the LAW AND THE BLOOD sacrifice.. FOREVER.

People sin. These days people worship Hollywood stars and music artists. The idol worship is the SELF. Idolatry is a biggy ugly sin.
God demands that you worship HIM. He is worthy. He is the Creator.

So, I'm supposed to answer all your questions? Read the book yourself. Ask God these questions.

Who can understand the mind of God? Who can know why He does things a certain way. He is all-knowing and knows you personally. He knew when your mother got pregnant with you.

I am aware that I was unable to satisfy your questions.

All I can say to wrap this up.. is that the world is going to change REAL SOON.. that the WRATH OF GOD IS COMING.

The world is going to burn up. God is going to DESTROY IT BECAUSE IT IS ALMOST TOTALLY WICKED.
All the elements are going to melt.

God is going to make a new heaven and new earth and anybody who wants to go..

Ask Jesus to be your Savior. JESUS SAVES.

I gotta go do the frikken dishes.
Bye, R

Last Edited by Rayelle on 01/26/2019 03:29 AM
TheLordsServant

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Please tell us exactly what 'young people' are supposed to learn and gain from reading stories about such carnal-minded human behavior occurring thousands of years ago...
 Quoting: WOLF*


This is coming whether you believe it or not.

I suggest you get ready.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Another non-response? Why is it you guys cannot answer the difficult questions when challenged with them?

Oh and your religion-inspired expectations and beliefs are not my realty... You can believe whatever you want is coming -just looking at how history has played out, you will join good company among those who already lived and died making the exact same claims....

Not to mention, the Muslims claim their own narrative is coming, the Hebrews claim their own narrative is coming, the other religions as well... What's the one thing they all have in common? What they claim is going to happen, never does... Generation, after generation... Religion is the culprit...
 Quoting: WOLF*


I'm not going to claim God's reasoning.

Ask Him yourself.

I don't need to answer your questions. They are irrelevant to my relationship with the Father and His Son.

Your nothing more than a radical militant atheistic nerd flapping your lips to steal souls for satan.

I wasn't put on earth to answer your questions. Whatever you say is nothing more than psycho-babble.

blahblah5 byekitty

yoda whatever

Enjoy your time with the rest of the derelicts when it comes.

endofdays
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Booboo Kitty Truck

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Jesus is what the entire Bible is about. The OT is the story of the Fall and the coming Messiah to save humanity, and the NT is the story of Him coming in the person of Jesus Christ.

The law was given to the Jews as an example...God knew full well they would never live up to it, and that no one, Jew or Gentile, ever could. The law was literally given to show us we need a savior because we can never live up to the law. Everyone sins, and thus, everyone needs a savior. Grace is given to those who believe on Christ, and before Christ, faith was credited as righteousness, ie, those who believe in the coming Messiah and showed their faith in God.

Once you understand that Jesus came to teach the Jews, just like He said in the NT....it was AFTER His crucifixion and resurrection that Paul was sent to give the Gentiles the good news of the savior, which is why the books of Paul are for those of us in the Age of Grace, the time period in which the Holy Spirit indwells those who are saved by grace. We can do no works on our own, and the only works that matter are those we allow Christ to work through us, not our own efforts, but His spirit working through us. Any works we do in our human nature, while they can be "good" in terms of our intentions, are as rags to God, according to the Bible.
Rayelle

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
At about 14 minutes into the video I stopped listening to him.
I do not want to finish the rest.

The Bible is THE WORD OF GOD.
 Quoting: Rayelle




He agrees the bible is the word, but we have to see the bible addresses the spoken and the written word, one came WAYYYYYY before the other.

Genesis Ch1 and John Ch1, speak of the same thing. God SPOKE and the worlds became (That is the true word of God).

Then THAT WORD "BECAME" flesh.

Then hundreds of years later the bible became available after the printing press...So for hundreds of years, before the bible was available, what sustained the believes who had no bible, and the larger percentage that could NOT read.

It was the Spirit, which was available to those who are sons, BECAUSE Jesus died and rose again.

So the emphasis is on, what was first, and that is the foundation, and that is what Andy is trying to get us to look back to.

 Quoting: rod777


Yeah, okay. I hear ya.

It's that I listen to Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones.

I like my bible studies serious and dry. No cute stories or yak yak.
WOLF*

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
I did not explain about why God allowed stoning
 Quoting: Rayelle


Not just 'allowed', but ordered, instructed, commanded it...

So why do you believe something that your conscience cannot come up with a suitable explanation for?

Why do you believe this is an accurate accounting when you cannot come up with any moral/ethical defense for executing someone for working on the wrong day of the week?

It's because humans around you encouraged you to believe that a particular book was inspired/authored by a 'higher power'... And because of that belief, you are afraid to be critical of such things that clearly we should criticize and find reprehensible...

If I handed you a book that depicts a human ordering, instructing, commanding such behavior (stoning women to death for non-violent offenses) - would you make excuses for that same behavior if it was coming from a human? I should hope NOT... But when the context changes, when the character doing the instructing/commanding is found in a book and claimed to be a 'deity' - now you have people stepping up to make these woefully adequate excuses... "God can do whatever God wants"... "How dare you question God, who do you think you are?".... "You think you're better than God now?"

Why is it we would not condone such behavior coming from humans, but if it's coming from a character depicted in a religious text - now we have people springing up to make excuses for it?

That's not possessing a consistent and universal moral/ethical standard... That's playing favorites and exhibiting conditional morality... Where certain behaviors are excusable in one context, but not in any other...

If it's not okay for women in Saudi Arabia to be stoned to death for various non-violent offenses in our modern times - it was NOT OKAY for women to be stoned to death for the same reason 2000 years ago, in any culture. You cannot justify or excuse that behavior in any time period...

, striking a person dead (like, for touching the Ark of the Covenant) and the various other mass deaths and singular exceptional sufferings that God delivered. Yes. God is severe.
 Quoting: Rayelle


If this character can simply strike people dead then why on earth would was a global flood needed when this character could have simply stricken dead all of 'offenders' in question and spared the animals & ecosystem? Why order people to dash little ones against rocks if this character could have simply stricken them dead in an instant? Why order tribes to raid villages and suffer casualties if the villagers could have been stricken dead in an instant?

The narrative doesn't make sense when scrutinized...

He is wrathful when sin overtakes a person or a city or His Chosen people.
 Quoting: Rayelle


'Chosen people'?

The Creator of all things has special 'favorites' determined by race/ethnicity/tribe eh?

That's not convincing in the least bit... Now who on Earth would claim such a narrative? Humans - and the humans claiming this narrative just so happened to be the lucky recipients of the self-assigned title 'chosen people'...

Can you point to any examples in history where one ethnic/culture group professes an ideology that identifies some OTHER ETHNIC/CULTURAL GROUP as the specially designed 'chosen people'?

He hates sin and He sent his prophets to WARN the people that they were becoming wicked.
 Quoting: Rayelle


So an all-powerful and omniscient deity has to 'send prophets' to warn people in the most inefficient and ineffective manner possible?

Why not use telepathy? Wouldn't that make more sense? You could speak to everyone in every corner of the globe, simultaneously... Why not do that? Through 'God' all things are possible, right?

So instead of doing what would clearly be the superior course of action and highly effective - people living in all differnt areas of the world are supposed to get the message from a small number of 'prophets' appearing only in specific, localized parts of the world?

How does that make sense?

GOD DEMANDS A BLOOD SACRIFICE for sin.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Primitive and carnal-midned...

Has it accomplished anything? Have people stopped 'sinning'?

Of course not...

Not such a great plan was it?

How about demanding charitable behavior and altruism as a condition of forgiveness?

You know, taking actions that result in helping and uplifting others - rather than causing harm to other living things via 'blood sacrifice'...

That would make too much sense though, right?

Instead you have to go slit the throat of an animal because you did something wrong...

He demands it. Those animals had their throats slit by the person who sinned. It was ugly. They felt that little lamb die. Because they SINNED. The sacrifice was horrible in order to make a person aware how much God hates sin.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Do you have children? Would you have ever ordered them to go harm/sacrifice feral animals as a consequence for their 'wrongdoing'?

Of course not... You would lose custody of your children if any sane, rational adult found out you were instructing your children to sacrifice neighborhood cats as punishment for 'sinning'...

But again, all we have to do is change the context to a character claimed to be a deity in a book - and now people are willing to accept such behavior and make excuses for it?

So, when Jesus showed up.. they should have been so happy because there was NO MORE ANIMAL sacrafices and no more obeying the letter of the Law.
 Quoting: Rayelle


You mean the clearly insane and irrational laws that said people should be executed for working on the wrong day of the week or wearing the wrong types of fabrics?

Again, if your conscience cannot rationalize such barbaric treatment of others for non-violent behaviors - why do you accept and believe this as being valid coming from what is supposed to be a higher power/intelligence?

huh

Jesus' blood saves everybody.
 Quoting: Rayelle


99% of Christians clearly don't believe this because they demand that you have to think/believe exactly as they do in order to qualify as being 'saved'... It's conditional salvation, you only get to be 'saved' if you agree to adopt a rigid set of beliefs formed by others (not yourself)...

No more stonings. No more killing animals. No more killing your children if they were homosexuals.
 Quoting: Rayelle


None of these practices EVER should have been condoned, instructed, commanded, etc...

Jesus paid the price for everybody's sins.
You want to be free from sin?
Then, go to Jesus.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Oh now we have 'sin free' people walking this Earth?

Are you one of them?

I thought Jesus was the only one free of sins? But you just offered me to be 'free from sin'... So I can also be sinless now despite 99.99% of the religious crowd always proclaiming that everyone is always a sinner?

I'll tell you what... I don't even agree with your application of that term... Tell me how it makes sense to label the behavior of stealing food from a store as 'sin', and then to turn around and label the behavior of someone who breaks into a home and murders an entire family also as 'sin'...

It doesn't... Those behaviors are nothing alike in intention nor consequence... Yet the religious crowd says, "let's just label eything we declare as bad as 'sin' and leave it at that"...

Someone please explain to me how coming up with a short, 3-letter word to describe EVERY behavior we don't like accomplishes anything? It tells you nothing about the actual nature of the behavior that's been committed...

If someone married into your family, and he divulged he was a former felon - wouldn't you sure as heck want to know whether he was a felon for having raped someone, or a felon for having committed tax fraud? Of course you would... Because simply referring to someone as a 'felon' tells you nothing about their character or the nature of their past behaviors...

So how does it make sense to believe a little 3 letter word can accurately describe anything?

Perhaps if you guys had a 'Sin Scale' and you could say that murdering people was Sin Level 99 and stealing food was Sin Level 5... Something that would at least make any effort to describe severity of actions...

Again, if someone marries into your family and says, "Yeah I just served 10 years in prison", and you respond by asking what offense he committed, and he says "Oh I committed a sin"... Are you going to stop your questioning there? Are you going to feel like you receive an adequate description and answer to your serious question? Of course not...

So why do people run around branding everything from over-eating to mass murder a 'sin' - when doing so tells us nothing about the actual nature and consequences of those individual behaviors?

I find it irrational and non-sensical...

Where did people learn to think in a manner that yields decreased detail and accuracy about your environment? From religious conditioning...

You wanna stay in fornication or porn or metal music and hip hop? Then, you can.

But God will reject you.
 Quoting: Rayelle


So the person who concedes she cannot explain the mindset of 'God' when ordering stonings and executions of women for various non-violent offenses is now claiming to know the mindset of this 'God' and who this character will accept or reject?

If you can't understand how/why 'God' orders people to be executed for petty offenses - how can you claim to understand how/why 'God' accepts or rejects people? The only answer you can defer to is that you got this belief from a translation of a book...

People sin.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Could you come up with a more vague declaration? I mean, what is anyone even supposed to do with this?

If I said, "humans make mistakes/errors", I've accomplished just as much as you just did by claiming "People sin"... Only you guys insist on enforcing the religious terminology/context so that you can include all of your other associated dogmas and doctrines...

These days people worship Hollywood stars and music artists. The idol worship is the SELF. Idolatry is a biggy ugly sin.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Like making idols out of religious texts and allowing them to completely overrun your own mental processes?

How come idolatry never gets recognized in this context?

God demands that you worship HIM. He is worthy. He is the Creator.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Demanding worship is a sign of insecurity... It means you don't feel whole/complete within yourself and therefore require that people praise you and give you attention in order so you can feel a superficial sense of acceptance since you feel a lack of acceptance & wholeness otherwise...

Look at the individuals throughout history who have desired/welcomed 'worship'... Kings/Queens/Royalty...

Furthermore - how can an alleged creator of all things have a gender? How does using 'He' make any sense? Any time we assig a gender to any living being we are automatically concededing that there are TWO of something... So where is this co-equivalent 'She' god if there is going to be a 'He' god? Why are we assigning a gender to something which is supposed to transcend gender?

I can tell you why.... Because humans of a certain gender created these depictions... It makes perfect sense... What desn't make sense is claiming that something which is supposed to rise above biological gender is going to claim one gender at the exclusion of the other... That doesn't make any sense...

So, I'm supposed to answer all your questions? Read the book yourself. Ask God these questions.
 Quoting: Rayelle


You're being dishonest here... Please find the post where I said you were supposed to answer all my questions? You made a post in this thread about how the younger generation should somehow find lessons/value in the O.T. narrative - I directly responded to the content of your post and asked you specific questions directly relating to the content of your post. You cannot answer those questions because you concede that you don't know... So please Rayalle tell me how reading the book myself is going to answer/address those questions when you yourself read the very same book and cannot figure out an answer?

Additionally, I was raised attending a church... Please don't assume I had no familiarity with this topic...

Who can understand the mind of God? Who can know why He does things a certain way. He is all-knowing and knows you personally. He knew when your mother got pregnant with you.
 Quoting: Rayelle


If no one can understand the mind of God then why are there so many people routinely enforcing quotes from a book that claims it can speak to the mind of God?

If no one can know the mind of God or why 'he' does things a certain way - why are you pretending to know this and telling me that God will reject people for various behaviors?

If you don't know, then don't pretend to know... And if you claim to know, then you should prepare for the inevitable consequence that you are going to be on the receiving end of some very challenging questions...

I am aware that I was unable to satisfy your questions.
 Quoting: Rayelle


How can you expect me to believe something that I find nonsensical and unwise? It's not due to a lack of understanding, since I'm asking questions that people cannot provide adequate answers to...

Could you imagine if I handed you a book that raised all sorts of questions and ethical conflicts that you could never find a resolution for and couldn't come up with an sufficient answer for - and then I just told you not to worry about all that and just believe it anyway!

Do you believe the claims of other religions that can't be rationalized and explained in a sensible way? Why not?

All I can say to wrap this up.. is that the world is going to change REAL SOON.. that the WRATH OF GOD IS COMING.
 Quoting: Rayelle


What you claim is no different than what people have been claiming for countless generations... And they lived and died and never experienced what they were absolutely convinced was going to happen in their lifetime... How could they have been so mislead and mistaken - but the people alive today are immune from such flaws and are instead absolutely right?

The difference is the people alive today do not recognize their own inherent mental/emotional biases...

Do you realize how discrediting it is for someone to continually claim that something is going to happen 'soon' - and then years, decades go by and what they claimed was happening 'soon' hasn't happened at all?
Yet the person who keeps making those claims never questions their perceptions and beliefs about reality... They just keep repeating the same behavior despite the obvious lack of validation...

The world is going to burn up. God is going to DESTROY IT BECAUSE IT IS ALMOST TOTALLY WICKED.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Well if 'God' has this 'master plan' and in control of everything - they this all was designd to happen and there was no other possibility or outcome, right? So why are we acting like 'God' is responding to some consequence that wasn't desired or planned for?

The Earth/human experience was designed to fail apparently... Which of course makes no sense, but religion claims otherwise...

God is going to make a new heaven and new earth and anybody who wants to go...
 Quoting: Rayelle


Can you explain how a 'new earth' is going to be made? What is the process by which this is conducted? Do you have any details? Or is this another case where you're just supposed to believe without any explanation or understanding?

huh

Ask Jesus to be your Savior. JESUS SAVES.
 Quoting: Rayelle


I'm sorry but I don't share your views and perceptions about the nature of the human experience. If you wish to believe that something terrible would happen to you if you lived and die without claiming certain beliefs - that's on you and not a real problem of anyone who doesn't believe as you choose to believe...

(Edited: Typos)

Last Edited by WOLF* on 01/24/2019 02:55 AM
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WOLF*

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
I'm not going to claim God's reasoning.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


You don't know, that's why you can't/wont answer...

At least Rayelle had the integrity to admit it...

Ask Him yourself.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


I don't communicate with invisible characters from religious books/texts... How many times have you attempted to communicate with the other 1999 named deities from human history?

Exactly...

If you want to claim that your instruction/practice can obtain a legitimate answer - then prove it...

I don't need to answer your questions. They are irrelevant to my relationship with the Father and His Son.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Well of course you're going to claim how you don't 'need' to respond to my questions - because you know that you can't provide a suitable explanation for what is clearly indefensible behavior... If you could, you would just provide an answer and allow me to evaluate it...

Your nothing more than a radical militant atheistic nerd flapping your lips to steal souls for satan.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


-It's You're*

-I don't claim the title of 'atheist' and never have... More bearing false witness? What good is claiming religious affiliation if you can just do the opposite of the doctrines?

-So now I'm responsible for 'stealing souls'... Do tell how one can 'steal a soul', as if it were a possession... Is this going to be another instancne where you claim you have the answer but you don't need to provide one?

sarcasm1

And I regret to inform you that I am not doing anything for any invisible boogeyman from your favorite religious book... You're simply having an emotional reaction to someone asking serious and critical questions about your own preferred ideology... If you weren't having an emotional reaction you would just engage in the discussion and attempt to address the questions being posed... Instead you resort to juvenile ad-hominem tripe...

I wasn't put on earth to answer your questions. Whatever you say is nothing more than psycho-babble.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Sure, just employ this defense:

canthearyou

Why are you even responding to my posts if you claim it's all 'psycho babble'?

You quote my posts but can't even bring yourself to actually engage the content... Then you have to propose excuses for why you're not responsible for answering the questions that I pose? Then stop quoting my posts if you don't have the courage to engage the content...


Enjoy your time with the rest of the derelicts when it comes.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Oh look, here you are condemning me in your own mind already... Exactly what Christ in the narrative said not to do...

These are the fruits of religion... You can act as hypocritical as you want, and still claim special status and rewards...


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"Head, or intellectual belief, is not fundamental and causative, but it is superficial and consequent, and that it has no power in the molding of a man’s character, the most superficial observer may easily see. Take, for instance, half a dozen men from any creed. They not only hold the same theological belief, but confess the same articles of faith in every particular, and yet their characters are vastly different. One will be just as noble as another is ignoble; one will be mild and gentle, another coarse and irascible; one will be honest, another dishonest; one will indulge certain habits which another will rigidly abjure, and so on, plainly indicating that theological belief is not an influential factor in a man’s life. A man’s theological belief is merely his intellectual opinion or view of the universe; God, The Bible, etc, and behind and underneath this head-belief there lies, deeply rooted in his innermost being, the hidden, silent, secret belief of his heart, and it is this belief which moulds and makes his whole life. It is this which makes those six men who, whilst holding the same theology, are yet so vastly at variance in their deeds—they differ in the vital belief of the heart." ~ James Allen

And the funny thing here is this... How many times a year do you sit around thinking about all of the threats and punishments you've subjected yourself for not believing the dogmas and doctrines of OTHER religions?

What? ZERO times a year?

Yet you hypocritically expect others to take your religion-based threats seriously when they clearly do not identify with nor subscribe to your religious theology...

Now why is it that you expect others to feel threatened by your petty, juvenile claims when you yourself do not feel threatened by adherents of OTHER religions making similar claims to you?

You expect others to have/exhibit a reaction that you yourself would not exhibit under similar circumstances...

Hypocrisy...
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Rayelle

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Wolf,

I agree, religion is not the way to go. I call it religiousity or churchianity.
That is a poor replacement for walking with Jesus.

Disagreeing with me or anybody that accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ.. well, that is your right. Go ahead. Disagree and misunderstand. Most people do.

You can believe that Jesus died for your sins, or don't.
Nobody is forcing you to accept what is written in the Bible.

I don't argue or debate. OT debates about Moses and the Jews are always popular with some people.
I'm pretty mild mannered for the most part. Debating religion is tedious.

But I'll talk about the Word of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and Yahweh all the live-long day.
God is my life.

Know this, that I am willing to die for what I believe.

No problem for me. Chop off my head? That is what real Christians will have to do for their beliefs.
Willing to die for my belief is what defines a real believer in Christ.
Many so called Christians won't do this. They love the world and their family and want to stay here.
They will be afraid and won't trust God.

In the coming tribulation they will persecute Christians and kill them, like they did in the early days after Jesus died.

My home is with Jesus. The Holy Spirit is here on earth for a limited time to enable us believers to endure until the Age of Grace ends.
It ends with a snare.
No more Grace. Like, being trapped. And the people on earth will then have to endure the tribulation and wrath of God.

Jesus said, "Fear not. For I will never leave you or forsake you."
There is no fear when a person lives with the spirit of God inside.

It's the most amazing awareness.. that God loves me!
He saved ME!
I am always sorta astounded that I can hear Him and His Word speaks deep inside me.

This world is a sad, tired wreck. Men's greedy corporations have raped it and defiled it and polluted it to death. It's rotting. It's passing away.

I'm outta here.

Bye Wolfy
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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
I agree, religion is not the way to go. I call it religiousity or churchianity.
That is a poor replacement for walking with Jesus.
 Quoting: Rayelle


If I hand you a Hindu religious text and tell you that everything in there is 100% true and you must believe it all and identify with the character depicted in the text and claim a new title for yourself once you identify with this ideology - that's religion...

People do this all the time with regards to Christianity - and then try to claim it's not religion...

Creating divisions and rankings among the human population based on whomever agrees to believe as you do - that's religion...

Only referring to people who share the same ideological beliefs as you as your 'brothers and sisters' - that's religion at work again again.

Claiming that terrible things will happen to those who die and do not claim the same ideology as you - religion again...

Disagreeing with me or anybody that accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ.. well, that is your right. Go ahead. Disagree and misunderstand. Most people do.
 Quoting: Rayelle


So now I'm guilty of 'misunderstanding' after I just got done asking serious and critical questions that you concede you can't answer?

Now I'm like 'most people' huh?

You should know that comes across as an insincere, superficial attempt to 'explain away' my seriously challenging your ideology by asking difficult questions as simply being the product of someone who has a comprehension issue (apparently like everyone else)...

You can believe that Jesus died for your sins, or don't.
Nobody is forcing you to accept what is written in the Bible.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Which bible are you referring to? They don't make the same claims... Should I believe what 3rd and 4th century Christians believed? Or adopt the dogma/doctrines of recent times? Should I believe the Latin Vulgate's claims? How about the New Inspired Version? Or the New King James Bible (is that better than the old one?)?

Even religion isn't consistent across time because humans keep altering, changing, and re-creating it!

You say no one is 'forcing' and yet you see people routinely using (unprovable) faith-based threats to psychologically manipulate people into identifying with the bible and believing its claims...

So your claim of "nobody is forcing you to accept" is not accurate... You frequently see people using fear-based indoctrination and manipulative tactics (threats) in a effort to convince others to adopt their beliefs. If you scare someone into believing something, that is a form of force because that change did not come about naturally and freely...

Furthermore, if the 'good book' makes the claim that 'God' does the calling/drawing, then why are people so insistent that others adopt their beliefs/ideology? I thought 'God' has everything under control, so why is it necessary to ram scripture down someone else's throat who clearly doesn't identify with them? (Not accusing you of that behavior, but you clearly see it being done)

I don't argue or debate. OT debates about Moses and the Jews are always popular with some people.
I'm pretty mild mannered for the most part. Debating religion is tedious.
 Quoting: Rayelle


I am only willing to debate ideas/beliefs/ideologies that I perceive as some combination of limiting, detrimental, and harmful to the individual (or others)... If an ideology isn't perceived to be causing any limiting and/or harm/detriment, then there would be no point in challenging someone else's identification with it. It wouldn't matter and there would be no reason for concern....

Know this, that I am willing to die for what I believe.
 Quoting: Rayelle



This declaration you made accounts for what?

Some buddhists were willing to self-immolate themselves (burn to death) for their beliefs...

Some muslims are willing to strap explosives to themselves and blow themselves up for their beliefs...

Throughout human history, individuals have proven they are willing to 'die' for what they strongly believe in, regardless of the validity of their beliefs...

It's not a new trend and it doesn't provide validation for whatever is claimed to be believed... All it shows is conviction, but having conviction does not prove something to be true for anyone else except the person wh holds/experience that conviction.

No problem for me. Chop off my head? That is what real Christians will have to do for their beliefs.
 Quoting: Rayelle


So now people aren't 'real Christians' unless they are willing to subject themselves to beheadings?

Says who? You? Some translation of the biblical narrative written by other imperfect humans?

See this is the spirit of religion at work again... Now you've set some conditional requirement in your mind of who can authentically claim some religious title/designation... In this case, it's the mental concept of what constitutes 'real Christians'...

Willing to die for my belief is what defines a real believer in Christ.
 Quoting: Rayelle


Physical death is inevitable... It happens to everyone regardless of what they believe... Why does your willingness to experience what is inevitable, somehow define you as a 'real believer'?

And I think you are missing the deeper message conveyed by the text... It's not a literal, physical 'death' that is any real value - it is the spiritual 'death' that you experience when you stop identifying with your physical identity and your physical-world derived 'sense of self'... That's how you die to the world, it happens on the level of consciousness/awarenes... You no longer root your sense of self (identity) nor your existence in the transient (temporary) nature of this physical world...

'Real believers' aren't people willing to experience physical 'death' in the name of their beliefs - they would be individuals who have consciously experienced the internal process of 'dying to the world'... Only then would they embody the awareness that was associated with how Christ is portrayed in the narrative...

It's clear that other individuals associated and aligned with other ideologies are willing to be killed in the name of their beliefs - what does that prove exactly? Does that valide their belief and make them credible in your eyes? If this doesn't hold true in the name of other ideologies, then the same application and treatment must be applied to yours as well.

Many so called Christians won't do this. They love the world and their family and want to stay here.
They will be afraid and won't trust God.
 Quoting: Rayelle


I would never fault anyone for loving their families and wanting to remain in their presence...

In the coming tribulation they will persecute Christians and kill them, like they did in the early days after Jesus died.
 Quoting: Rayelle


The tribulation that is perpetually 'coming' but never arrives?

Can you tell me the value that was gained from untold numbers of Christians in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's, and 1900's living AND dying after ardently believing & claiming that the 'tribulation' was coming in their lifetime? How did their belief about alleged future events serve them when it's clear they believed things about their lifetimes that never even transpired?

My home is with Jesus. The Holy Spirit is here on earth for a limited time to enable us believers to endure until the Age of Grace ends.
 Quoting: Rayelle


'us believers'

Religion creates divisions where there are in fact none... It is again the influence of religion at work to cause someone to think their identity is that of claiming an ideology - while everyone else gets another title/designation simply for not believing that ideology...

This is a false construct, an illusion promoted by the physical mind... There is no special status for people who claim certain ideologies/religions - that's not how reality functions... Nearly every religion tries to do this... It is a psychological condition, unfortunately...

Is this 'God' you speak of omnipresent or not? If so, please explain how this 'holy spirit' can only be in certain locations or in certain people and not others... That completely violates the principle of omnipresence... No one can claim something is omnipresent and then claim that what is said to be omnipresent doesn't exist in certain locations or people.

If 'God' is not omnipresent, then please explain where 'God's' location is right now, and the boundaries/limits of 'God', where 'God' begins and ends... Please explain how 'God' can possess omniscience if 'God' is not omnipresent and existing everywhere?

See the ideological claims are full of contradictions..

If the 'holy spirit' is also 'God', and 'God' is supposed to be omnipresent, then explain how the 'holy spirit' can leave the Earth and not be present? Then you no longer have omnipresence because you violated the foundation of that concept.

But if 'God' is not omnipresent then that means that 'God' has limitations and boundaries... That reality can unfold in areas and locations where 'God' is not present, and thus would have no knowledge of what transpired...

So you guys can't have it both ways... You can't claim omnipresence one minute, and then make the claim that 'God' isn't in that particular person... Or that people are going to go to a 'place/location' after death marked by the 'absence of God'... These claims are NOT compatible...


It ends with a snare.
No more Grace. Like, being trapped. And the people on earth will then have to endure the tribulation and wrath of God.
 Quoting: Rayelle


You don't have any direct knowledge of what you are claiming... Have you already experienced what you claim is going to happen? Of course not... Your only basis for making these claims are rooted in faith-based beliefs.... That is not knowledge (knowing)... So how did you come to mistake your beliefs for facts?

It's the most amazing awareness.. that God loves me!
He saved ME!
I am always sorta astounded that I can hear Him and His Word speaks deep inside me.
 Quoting: Rayelle


I support people believing anything that serves to uplift them and serves to influence them to refine/evolve themselves (their state of being)... I will never question anyone for believing anything that serves this important purpose - even if I do not share their specific beliefs or perceptions...

Last Edited by WOLF* on 01/24/2019 04:02 AM
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rod777  (OP)

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Then hundreds of years later the bible became available after the printing press...So for hundreds of years, before the bible was available, what sustained the believes who had no bible, and the larger percentage that could NOT read.
 Quoting: rod777


You are smart to mention this Rod...
 Quoting: WOLF*



Thanks...

Also I would like to address your question to the poster above, about God demanding the killing of people in the OT scriptures.

This issue is addressed by Paul in Romans CH 9. I personally have come to a place of brokenness (I almost died), which led to me being freed from a habitual sin, that I failed at for 34 yrs.

That freedom came by God's presence coming where I was, and asking me questions, one of which was Him saying to me "Why don't you tell me the truth".

This led to me being freed from another mountain in my life, which was my failure to trust Him.

Suddenly as I'm driving down the freeway late one night, listening to Led Zeppelin, blaring loudly in my car. He comes again, and makes an accusation against me, saying "You're still not trusting me"... I again, confessed this revealed truth to Him, and became free. Free to trust Him.

Now I said that to say this. These issues about God in the OT, and killing people is something I no longer struggle with, because of my freedom to trust Him.

BUT from an intellectual point of view, allow me to take a stab at your question.

Anyone being honest will admit, God owes us NOTHING.

He can create us, as you and I would make a sculpture out of clay, and ten minutes later, destroy it, that is our right. The clay will never protest, as we make our decision.

Now this is called sovereignty, but add to this sovereignty, the fact that God HATES to be called a liar, which is what happened in the garden.

God also hates the destruction of the family, and a child's innocence, especially sexual innocence... Child sex, bestiality, child sacrifice, and many other things is what many theologians believed was going on in those biblical situations where none were spared.

So if you add sovereignty, to the sins, lack of cleanliness, sacrifices, immorality, bestiality, ETC, this would account for God's decision. So instead of something being done for the sake of destruction, it was for the sake of preservation, so that others would be spared.


Last Edited by rod777 on 01/24/2019 04:12 AM
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01/24/2019 04:33 AM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Matthew 7:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.




The center of Christianity flows from the Word of God, in exactly the same way the center of Judaism did.

You cannot pick and choose which part of the Gospel to believe, or to make a false determination that one part of the Word contradicts another - that is Heresy.
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Rayelle

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01/24/2019 06:01 AM

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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Wolf,

God does not lie.
He gave us the scriptures to teach us.

He is The Way - The Truth - The Life

I believe what God tells me. That's it.
That's all.

When I re-read all that you wrote, trying to imagine you as a person, I said to myself,
"We're on different wavelengths"
It seems that there is a blockage of communication.


Faith is faith. You got it... or you don't.
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Re: What is the Center of Christianity. The Bible or The Resurrection.
Then hundreds of years later the bible became available after the printing press...So for hundreds of years, before the bible was available, what sustained the believes who had no bible, and the larger percentage that could NOT read.
 Quoting: rod777


You are smart to mention this Rod...
 Quoting: WOLF*



Thanks...

Also I would like to address your question to the poster above, about God demanding the killing of people in the OT scriptures.

This issue is addressed by Paul in Romans CH 9. I personally have come to a place of brokenness (I almost died), which led to me being freed from a habitual sin, that I failed at for 34 yrs.

That freedom came by God's presence coming where I was, and asking me questions, one of which was Him saying to me "Why don't you tell me the truth".

This led to me being freed from another mountain in my life, which was my failure to trust Him.

Suddenly as I'm driving down the freeway late one night, listening to Led Zeppelin, blaring loudly in my car. He comes again, and makes an accusation against me, saying "You're still not trusting me"... I again, confessed this revealed truth to Him, and became free. Free to trust Him.

Now I said that to say this. These issues about God in the OT, and killing people is something I no longer struggle with, because of my freedom to trust Him.

BUT from an intellectual point of view, allow me to take a stab at your question.

Anyone being honest will admit, God owes us NOTHING.

He can create us, as you and I would make a sculpture out of clay, and ten minutes later, destroy it, that is our right. The clay will never protest, as we make our decision.

Now this is called sovereignty, but add to this sovereignty, the fact that God HATES to be called a liar, which is what happened in the garden.

God also hates the destruction of the family, and a child's innocence, especially sexual innocence... Child sex, bestiality, child sacrifice, and many other things is what many theologians believed was going on in those biblical situations where none were spared.

So if you add sovereignty, to the sins, lack of cleanliness, sacrifices, immorality, bestiality, ETC, this would account for God's decision. So instead of something being done for the sake of destruction, it was for the sake of preservation, so that others would be spared.

 Quoting: rod777


OP; It does not matter to me what gender you are, or what color your skin is, what Holy texts you have studied, what country you are from, social status, etc. What matters to me here is the people who the ONE TRUE and LIVING GOD of the OT and NT has spoken to, what was said, and how it was said. OP; Did GOD speak to you? What was it like being in the PRESENCE of ALMIGHTY GOD? What did GOD'S VOICE sound like? What did GOD say?

Last Edited by ThisIsHowItIs on 01/24/2019 08:35 AM
"That is how it is, and that is the way it is to be."