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Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.

 
titanbrian
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Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The Constitution does not allow us the right to bear arms, it recognizes the inherent right and saddles government with the restriction to modify that right in any way.

'SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED' applies to government as a restriction.
titanbrian  (OP)

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01/26/2019 10:54 AM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The People are identified as citizens.
The Constitution is for citizens, not those here on student visas, work visas, tourists, invaders here illegally, or asylum seekers, not dreamers who are also illegals.

They are by definition outlaws, meaning outside the jurisdiction of the USA, and their children, whether born here or not, as they are born to parents under the jurisdiction of a foreign power.

So, they do not qualify under the Constitution for inherent rights while on USA soil. That is about 30 million people
who park themselves in our jobs, hospitals, schools, housing, and welfare rolls.
CrsCrpr

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01/26/2019 10:55 AM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The Constitution does not allow us the right to bear arms, it recognizes the inherent right and saddles government with the restriction to modify that right in any way.

'SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED' applies to government as a restriction.
 Quoting: titanbrian


How our Federal Constitution “Secures” Our God Given Rights

Our Declaration of Independence says the Creator God endowed us with Rights, and that the purpose of government is to "secure" the Rights God gave us.

What does this mean? How does a government go about "securing" God given rights?

The miracle of our federal Constitution was that it created a federal government which, by means of exercising the enumerated powers listed in the Constitution, was enabled to "secure" our God given Rights in specific ways.

It isn't the federal government's job to secure our God given Rights in all ways, just in the ways appropriate for the national government of a Federation. Our Rights are to be secured in other ways by State governments.


[link to sonsoflibertymedia.com (secure)]
II Corinthians 3:17 - Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is Freedom

Your liberties aren't dying; they're being killed by people with names and addresses ...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. -- Thomas Jefferson
Halsey Knox

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
ILYS-dude
"THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country."
-Edward Bernays
CrsCrpr

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01/26/2019 10:57 AM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
Inalienable Rights

Personal rights held by an individual which are not bestowed by law, custom, or belief, and which cannot be taken or given away, or transferred to another person, are referred to as “inalienable rights.” The U.S. Constitution recognized that certain universal rights cannot be taken away by legislation, as they are beyond the control of a government, being naturally given to every individual at birth, and that these rights are retained throughout life. To explore this concept, consider the following inalienable rights definition

What are Inalienable Rights

The Declaration of Independence gives three examples of inalienable rights, in the well-known phrase, “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” These fundamental rights are endowed on every human being by his or her Creator, and are often referred to as “natural rights.” Only under carefully limited circumstances can such natural rights be taken away as people have the freedom to exercise them as they choose.

The framers of the Constitution acknowledged the inalienable rights of man in this powerful phrase from the Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”


[link to legaldictionary.net (secure)]
II Corinthians 3:17 - Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is Freedom

Your liberties aren't dying; they're being killed by people with names and addresses ...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. -- Thomas Jefferson
titanbrian  (OP)

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
If some black guy hands his toddler a gun, and he is a citizen, that is his decision, and not reason to amend the Constitution unless it would be to repeal the 14th amendment.

Before the 14th amendment of 1868, blacks did not have citizenship rights and therefore did not qualify for the inherent right to own firearms. That was about 150 years ago.
titanbrian  (OP)

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

[link to legaldictionary.net (secure)]
 Quoting: CrsCrpr


You will note the phrase, 'men are created equal'
not 'mankind is.

At the time of the writing and establishment of the Constitution, 'men' were male property owners by definition.
The original verbage of the Constitution was 'life, liberty
and the pursuit of property'
CrsCrpr

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01/26/2019 11:20 AM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

[link to legaldictionary.net (secure)]
 Quoting: CrsCrpr


You will note the phrase, 'men are created equal'
not 'mankind is.

At the time of the writing and establishment of the Constitution, 'men' were male property owners by definition.
The original verbage of the Constitution was 'life, liberty
and the pursuit of property'
 Quoting: titanbrian


You're right but that is an entirely different thread I think . . .

For the purposes of the discussion on whether rights are "granted by the government" or "inalienable and protected by the government", I believe the current constitution that we got hoodwinked by still serves as proof of concept that it was not constructed with the idea of "granting" rights "given" by government but constructed with the purpose of "preventing" the government from "stealing" these God-given rights.

Last Edited by Nawt Meh Prezdunt on 01/26/2019 11:21 AM
II Corinthians 3:17 - Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is Freedom

Your liberties aren't dying; they're being killed by people with names and addresses ...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. -- Thomas Jefferson
seekinginformation

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01/26/2019 11:24 AM

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The Constitution does not allow us the right to bear arms, it recognizes the inherent right and saddles government with the restriction to modify that right in any way.

'SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED' applies to government as a restriction.
 Quoting: titanbrian


The National Firearms Act 1934
The Federal Firearms Act 1938
The Gun Control Act 1968
The Hughes Amendment to FOPA 1986
The Gun Free School Zones Act 1990
The Brady Law 1993
The AWB 1994
Etc...

Shall not be infringed... Yep!
Seekinginformation
titanbrian  (OP)

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01/26/2019 11:27 AM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The Constitution does not allow us the right to bear arms, it recognizes the inherent right and saddles government with the restriction to modify that right in any way.

'SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED' applies to government as a restriction.
 Quoting: titanbrian


The National Firearms Act 1934
The Federal Firearms Act 1938
The Gun Control Act 1968
The Hughes Amendment to FOPA 1986
The Gun Free School Zones Act 1990
The Brady Law 1993
The AWB 1994
Etc...

Shall not be infringed... Yep!
 Quoting: seekinginformation


Government is way way out of control, and has been getting that way since Abraham Lincoln consolidated federal power during his presidency and very convenient civil war. A war fought mainly due to federal mandate on southern states.
A war fought when negotiation could have prevented the bloodletting.
titanbrian  (OP)

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01/26/2019 11:29 AM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

[link to legaldictionary.net (secure)]
 Quoting: CrsCrpr


You will note the phrase, 'men are created equal'
not 'mankind is.

At the time of the writing and establishment of the Constitution, 'men' were male property owners by definition.
The original verbage of the Constitution was 'life, liberty
and the pursuit of property'
 Quoting: titanbrian


You're right but that is an entirely different thread I think . . .

For the purposes of the discussion on whether rights are "granted by the government" or "inalienable and protected by the government", I believe the current constitution that we got hoodwinked by still serves as proof of concept that it was not constructed with the idea of "granting" rights "given" by government but constructed with the purpose of "preventing" the government from "stealing" these God-given rights.
 Quoting: CrsCrpr


True but the concepts cannot be separated.
It's like saying, ok this is blue and this is red, so let's just call it purple.
Jake

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
2ndamend
Evil controls the ignorant... Climate change is a hoax so is the vax you have been fear-porned into compliance!

Definition Satan from the bible: Satan (Rev 12:7) exercising his subtle (indirect) impact on heathen governments (powers) – i.e. accomplishing his hellish agenda from "behind the scenes."
titanbrian  (OP)

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
Women were also excluded from 'all men are created equal'
but that is a whole other set of historical circumstance.

And I have to go to work.
seekinginformation

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01/26/2019 11:48 AM

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
Women were also excluded from 'all men are created equal'
but that is a whole other set of historical circumstance.

And I have to go to work.
 Quoting: titanbrian


Not so.

The term "Man" means a human being.

The term "Woman" means "a human being with a womb", a Womb-Man.

In the case of the Declaration, the term "Men", plural, would mean all of Man Kind.

Now, one might argue the truth of the statement that "...all Men are created equal...", when they demonstrably are not.

One might say there is no natural aristocracy, which again is demonstrably false.

One might say that all men are equal in the sight of God, or that they are equal before the Law (which would be the same thing).

Last Edited by Seekinginformation on 01/26/2019 11:49 AM
Seekinginformation
CrsCrpr

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
Women were also excluded from 'all men are created equal'
but that is a whole other set of historical circumstance.

And I have to go to work.
 Quoting: titanbrian


Not so.

The term "Man" means a human being.

The term "Woman" means "a human being with a womb", a Womb-Man.

In the case of the Declaration, the term "Men", plural, would mean all of Man Kind.

Now, one might argue the truth of the statement that "...all Men are created equal...", when they demonstrably are not.

One might say there is no natural aristocracy, which again is demonstrably false.

One might say that all men are equal in the sight of God, or that they are equal before the Law (which would be the same thing).
 Quoting: seekinginformation


That's what I believe they had in mind when penning it.

The culture was different and true equality was far from being imagined but were trying to afford these God-given rights to all mankind.

At the time "mankind" was culturally accepted to include only white men but we have advanced as a civilization and our understanding of "mankind" or "man" is much broader now.
II Corinthians 3:17 - Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is Freedom

Your liberties aren't dying; they're being killed by people with names and addresses ...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. -- Thomas Jefferson
titanbrian  (OP)

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01/26/2019 06:40 PM
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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
Women were also excluded from 'all men are created equal'
but that is a whole other set of historical circumstance.

And I have to go to work.
 Quoting: titanbrian


Not so.

The term "Man" means a human being.

The term "Woman" means "a human being with a womb", a Womb-Man.

In the case of the Declaration, the term "Men", plural, would mean all of Man Kind.

Now, one might argue the truth of the statement that "...all Men are created equal...", when they demonstrably are not.

One might say there is no natural aristocracy, which again is demonstrably false.

One might say that all men are equal in the sight of God, or that they are equal before the Law (which would be the same thing).
 Quoting: seekinginformation


That's what I believe they had in mind when penning it.

The culture was different and true equality was far from being imagined but were trying to afford these God-given rights to all mankind.

At the time "mankind" was culturally accepted to include only white men but we have advanced as a civilization and our understanding of "mankind" or "man" is much broader now.
 Quoting: CrsCrpr


Interesting, but they did not say man. They said men.
all men are created equal. At the time women had no equal standing before the law in most states. And blacks were defined as each having a human part (I think each one counted as 2/3, would have to look that up) but not included as 'men' with equality.

I have always interpreted the word women as the Bible King James Version depicts, coming from the man (rib) so
sort of a supporting portion for the male, as in helpmeet, or necessary assistant, not as a supervisor but as an
equal with a different place in creation.

Amendments have clarified, but the Constitution is basically being run roughshod over by the bureaucracy in all instances, against everyone who qualifies as a citizen. I know we agree there.
Mental Case

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The US constitution grans us NO rights.

It recognizes the rights given to us by our Creator!
If I am going to be damned...I am going to be damned for who I really am!
CrsCrpr

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Re: Gun rights are not granted by government, they are an inherent right of the people.
The US constitution grans us NO rights.

It recognizes the rights given to us by our Creator!
 Quoting: Mental Case


100% correct
II Corinthians 3:17 - Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is Freedom

Your liberties aren't dying; they're being killed by people with names and addresses ...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. -- Thomas Jefferson





GLP