Which do you enjoy more, NASA forgetting to rake out the LEM landing blast crater, or the exploding, no thrust no dust take off?

The petrified wood did not come from NASA. They didn't give out any rocks that year and those they did give out were small samples and labeled. And they never gave them to private citizens. It MIGHT have been given to the former prime minister by the ambassador but there is no real proof of that. It appears that after the former prime minister died that his estate ASSUMED it was a Moon rock.

and I never claimed to know everything. So what?


not in my interest. Again, so what? Are you ever going to explain why they were dreadful? Seems like you're avoiding that.


A press conference weeks after during which they were stuck in quarantine and couldn't see their families and had plenty of time to realize they're never going into space again. Oh but they should have taken a desk job.


I mentioned multiple things that are from third parties. but if you're claiming that everything from NASA is faked, then that greatly increases the number of people involved.

Last Edited by LHP598 on 02/07/2019 11:30 AM

Oh, as for the original post:

[link to www.clavius.org]

Have a nice day.

We know they went to the Moon because we understand how they did it. The years of rocket design and engine development, the many failures (learning rapidly what can go wrong and how to make it better), the step by step process of learning to live, operate and function in space.

Orbital mechanics demonstrates that you can go "around" the VAB with a properly timed TLi burn with the correct orbital inclination...rocket science is very precise.

There was no "crater" because of exhaust plume overexpansion in the vacuum. It's a rocket science thing that hoaxies aren't interested in. There was noticeable surface scouring, which makes perfect sense with their reduced engine power at landing, having burned most of the descent stage propellants.

Sorry guys, they did go to the Moon, landed 6 times. It's completely documented...hardware is still there, it's been photographed by other countries lunar orbiters. It was tracked real time by the Soviets, who most certainly would have cried foul in a heartbeat had anything been out of kilter.

Really, the hoax people need to do their homework, keep making real basic mistakes in their "analysis", because they have no interest in learning the subject matter.....and it shows.

Saying that it was possible is not the same as proving that it was done.

That's like saying "We know that the butler committed the murder, because the victim was stabbed, and the butler has strong arms and has access to knives." All you can say is "It is possible the butler ..."

were you alive/aware back in the 60s? ...honest question.

Are you sure that NASA claims they know how they did it? Because a common NASA excuse is that they forgot or their dog ate the blueprints, telemetry, video tapes etc. NASA also haven't done it since, another good indication that they don't know how to.


Rocketdyne was the west's foremost experts in rocket design. In 1962 they designed the 1962 F-1 engine and played about with it for 5 years failing to make it better. Already in 1962 it was an obsolete design, inefficient and low on power. Then Von Braun spent 2 years playing with it at NASA and claimed to have increased the thrust by 50%, something never verified and impossible due to the construction.

That's NINE YEARS flogging the dead horse of the F-1.



What failures? Apollo 1 was a failure, from then on, not so much.
Apollo 8 tested MANY new, untried things and every single one worked PERFECTLY.
Apollo 9 - complete success
Apollo 10 - complete success
Apollo 11 - complete success
Apollo 12 - complete success
Apollo 13 - complete success (moon trip, perfect landing, no one even bruised)
Apollo 14 - complete success
Apollo 15 - complete success
Apollo 16 - complete success

The untried LM, spacesuits, PLMs, rover, descent and ascent stages etc : NO FAILURES.
In TWO YEARS FLAT they did everything perfectly and it all worked. That's not rapid learning, that's cinema.


Actually you cannot. The VAB is a donut shaped toroid of various layers stretching from a few hundred miles out to 10,000 miles and the take off was at a very low inclination to the equatorial plane, around 20 degrees IIRC.
The ONLY way to avoid the VAB is to take up vertically from the north or south pole, but their orbit was largely equatorial - just like the VAB.


I haven't covered the lack of crater, regardless it would need to be proven, you merely stating a couple of words doesn't make it so, any more than I could explain how I'll win the lottery tomorrow.


Just saying something is not proof. Do you understand that?


It's poorly documented even by NASA, their website coverage of Apollo is a total mess. They even destroyed the vital telemetry data, the blueprints, the video tapes of the Apollo 11 lunar surface video. If NASA doesn't care about Apollo: why should you?
There are no photographs from any other organisation than NASA. You can SAY that India or China has photos, but they simply don't, sorry.


The soviets didn't track it, there's no independent record of that. They also would not have cried foul because Gagarin never went into space either and their silence was bought by 10 years of grain shipments.


Yet you have failed to find a single flaw or present any proof that NASA went, which shows that perhaps people like you who rely purely on faith in NASA are wrong and us skeptics who demand proof are correct.

Additionally your comments show a lack of basic understanding of project management, engineering, timescales, rocket development and the space environment, you are the least one qualified to throw stones here. I can quite readily explain to you how the Empire built the Death Star in Star-Wars in exactly the same manner that you have explained how Apollo was real. I could even go into detail about overexpansion of their primary coolant circuit in the vacuum and how it was fixed with a clever re-circulating water system, and why the attitude thrusters on the death star were noisy but the main warp drive was silent: but it STILL wouldn't be PROOF.

Your phrase 'hoax people' also shows you have developed a tribal mindset of 'them and us' for this subject which illustrates just how partial you are to any rational discussion of the known facts.

I'm still waiting for a single piece of EVIDENCE of Apollo. Just choose ONE item you can defend and it PROOF.

What? Ignoring my posts *already?*

It's not my fault your point was too boring.

Everyone knows the petrified wood issue got NASA into overdrive to make a back-story to debunk it, you need to realise that it's merely a back story that isn't any more real more than the Saddam's WMDs.

The wood showed the entire story to be fiction: what did you expect NASA, the CIA and US government to do - admit they were wrong and it was a 50 year old lie?

That's about as likely as them leaving Venezuela alone.

OK...so what was the show stopper that you think made the Apollo lunar missions "impossible"? The hardware has been photographed on the surface by other nations' orbiters, the returned samples have been examined by very many international scientists and geologists who declare they are not "terrestrial" (and cannot be meteorites), the Soviets tracked them to the Moon and back. Amateur astronomers followed them for some time telescopically after TLi..
...and the hardware they left up there remains to this day...all 6 landing sites almost exactly as they left them...and the Soviets never cried "foul"...they watched it, analyzed it all...and acknowledged it happened...SIX TIMES!
Hoax people...yep. They are the ones who don't get how it was all actually accomplished...it's a very "apt" moniker, I think.

...and the VAB issue is also misunderstood. Orbital inclination, and a carefully designed timing and trajectory for TLi allowed the to pass through the weaker edges of the belts...and even so, what sort of radiation do you think they were quickly passing through? It's particle radiation, and can be attenuated with pretty common materials. The actual radiation exposure numbers are out there...

ONE misidentified piece means all moonrocks are fake, yet so good as to fool geologists worldwide?

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA

Drone is a troll

It could have been faked with 25 people at the top, easily.

Hell the CIA, NASA, US MIL could have even tricked the astronauts themselves with a little scopolamine and simulators if necessary.

You act as if this isn't the most likely scenario even after watching the Hollywood production on 9-11.

LOLZ people are cattle.

Yes, they did.

I actually think that shot was controlled wirelessly from mission control, the latency was like a second or something.

Amateur radio operators use the moon to bounce signals around the curve of the earth with little latency as well.

Body of evidence favors Hoax!

BIG LEAGUE

Debris on the moon today doesn't prove manned missions put them there in 1969/70s

In fact putting debris on the moon doesn't require human moon landings regardless of era.

If we went to the moon back then we wouldn't be "losing" wars in Afghanistan today.

uhhh...all these flights were in the late 1960s...technology check...hundreds of thousands of civilian contractors designed, fabricated and built the spacecraft and boosters. There was no PCs, Photoshop, fast computer processors. The Russians would have cried foul immediately had they seen something amiss. (they had a unmanned craft up there at the time too).

Clearly, SoberLife is not what you practice...

There has been this thing called TV and radio way before 1972.

^^^^^^ This

Everything was real except the moon landings, why is that so hard to understand?

If they attempted it today they wouldn't be as flawless as they were back then.

Keep reading your comic books, Buzz Lightyear!



To Infinity and Beyond

flawless? check again...

Or any noise, listen to 10 seconds before 'The eagle has landed'. No roar, no rattle or vibration, just a clear voice with no background noise whatsoever.

Yes. I watched the landings "live" on TV.

For the landings which took place during school time, the teachers stopped the regular classes and everyone watched the astronauts on TV.

Why do you think the Russians would blow the whistle? That is a rather naive viewpoint to post on a conspiracy forum.

You still don't get it do you? It's ALL fake. There isn't one single item that is real. The only thing we can be reasonably sure of is that they spent a lot of money developing rockets because that what all military nations do with their defence department budgets.

The Saturn V stack, the SM, the CM, the LM, rover etc, NONE of the garnish ever worked. Do you really think 3 fully grown men and all that gear were wedged into a bizarrely cramped cone were sent 250,000 miles to the moon and back and it all worked just fine?? Oh come on.


No it hasn't, that is why you are unable to provide any links to any of the photographs, even fake ones. The only photos are from NASA's LRO: NASA showing NASA's stuff.


Returned by what? When? You have NO chain of custody therefore it's not evidence.
I've got a lot of treasure that Jason (of Jason and The Argonauts) gave me in my basement. Prove it's fake.


You have no evidence for that, you are GUESSING.
No one has been able to provide any evidence that the Apollo trips were real.

The big problem is that the evidence is 240000 miles away, and there are no independent witnesses.

Why that would be the Man in the Moon which is why there are no footprints to and from a tripod.

Oh yeah there's real evidence, the moon rock proves it, no landing blast craters needed.

really? What causes the roar of a rocket motor at launch? Then, why no roar in the vacuum of space?

there are 6 LM descent stages sitting on the lunar surface, surrounded with footprints, surface experiments, laser reflectors (still in use today), s few rovers and associated tracks, flags and assorted other items. They're there now, and will be there for a very long time.

...deal with it or prove they hoaxed those 6 landings...

The rock that was supposedly given to a private citizen (never done) without a label or mount, at a time when no other rocks were given and wasn't given by NASA (IF it was given at all it was given by an ambassador). Nope, far more likely it was assumed to be a Moon rock by the former prime minister's estate after his death. It proves only that hoaxies are desperate.