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If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?

 
Raheem
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02/15/2019 08:36 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
This Light of gen 1:3? it is worded different than all other creation mentioned in gen chapter 1 it is just spoke into being! look at the rest of creation the firmament was made, the water under was divided, the earth brought forth the seed, etc, he made the 2 great lights and the stars also, the waters were used to make the fowl and sea life, the earth was used to make the rest. the Light of gen 1:3 was brought into existence with the first word recorded in scripture- And GOD Said


if create (brought into existence) applies here what substance was he brought into existence from? since scripture states nothing was created that wasn't by him


He comes from the Father only and the Father has always existed.


Gods Word is it eternal? He WAS that WORD
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70501380





The word used for God in the first text of the bible is Elohim. The word simply means Gods. It is not a reference to what you call the father and it is not a reference to Jesus Christ. It is a reference to the Elohim realm. That Elohim realm is mentioned in the book of Enoch, which was taken out of the bible canon by Constantine in 325 a.d.

There is no reason whatsoever that the book of Enoch should have been taken out of the bible.
TheLordsServant

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Raheem
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant






There is not one phrase in the scriptures you believe in and just quoted says that Jesus is God.
countryleftypenn

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02/15/2019 09:02 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?




Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.
1 Corinthians 1611 AV KJ Bible
Chapter 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2019 09:04 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


A couple of sincere questions.

(1) Who is the Alpha and Omega refered to in the bible ?

(2) What is the definition of "Alpha and Omega" ?
Faithful & Truth

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
The first to overcome this world, and the last to overcome this world.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2019 09:08 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
The first to overcome this world, and the last to overcome this world.
 Quoting: Faithful & Truth


Who is the first and the last according to scriptures?
Zerubayah

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?


Yahweh is coming...pack your things its cold in HELL.. for now
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76770502


racist5
Faithful & Truth

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
The first to overcome this world, and the last to overcome this world.
 Quoting: Faithful & Truth


Who is the first and the last according to scriptures?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72985428


Adam

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Gospel of Thomas

“If the flesh came into being because of the spirit, it is a wonder.


But if the spirit (came into being) because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders.

Last Edited by New Heart on 02/15/2019 09:28 PM
Raheem
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02/15/2019 09:19 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?




 Quoting: countryleftypenn




You can debate these highly debatable bible texts that both sides slant to fit the doctrine you believe in.

But, I am a fully conscious being and know who I am and my past lives, and which realm I am from. I was actually Enoch in past life and full of who I am.

Now, instead of quoting disputed texts. Explain to me, what is the basis for removing the book of Enoch out of the bible canon? The answer is there is none.

Jesus Christ and other bible characters quoted the book of Enoch. If it should not be part of the bible canon, then, why did Jesus and others quote the book itself?
TheLordsServant

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02/15/2019 09:57 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


There is not one phrase in the scriptures you believe in and just quoted says that Jesus is God.
 Quoting: Raheem 77052925


That's why I go by what the Bible tells us...that Jesus is the Son OF God. NOT God Himself.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Raheem
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02/15/2019 10:24 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


There is not one phrase in the scriptures you believe in and just quoted says that Jesus is God.
 Quoting: Raheem 77052925


That's why I go by what the Bible tells us...that Jesus is the Son OF God. NOT God Himself.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant





That's nice that you believe that. But, as I mentioned before, the Jehovah's Witnesses don't have it right, either.

Jesus is neither, God nor the firstborn eldest son of creation.

He is an ascended Master and is from the Master realm, which are non-angelics.

In this universe, first existed Source. The 12 Creator Gods were created, and then, Metatron who is an angelic creator God. Michael is next in line to Metatron.

The three realms were then created: (1) The angelic realm first. (2) the Master realm (which Jesus is from), and (3) the third realm created was the ancient of days realm.

There are many things that the religions do not teach you.

But, whether, you are a Christian , JW, Muslim, Jew or.any other religion, you all have one thing in common, that is the Messiah.

If the Messiah is allowed to come, then, the Messiah would unite all religions, creeds, beliefs and people's.

There wow be no division like you have on this website.
ALL IS ONE IS ALL

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
" These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:" Rv3:14
 Quoting: DGN


Because the bible was corrupted on purpose...
There Can Be NO Peace in the Heart or Progress in the Mind unless one falls wholeheartedly in love with Truth and IDEALS of Eternal Realities.

Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.


"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.


Wisdom is not given, it is earned, and experience is the bestower.

Rejoice, for the world of ABSOLUTE TRANSPARENCY approaches, and decisions will be made according to the purity of your motives, for the eye of the Divine is an all-seeing eye, capable of glimpsing every flutter of the soul, knowing every yearning of your being and – incredible though it may seem – supporting every aspect of your own DIVINE PLAN.
Baloney

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
 Quoting: DGN


Because the bible was corrupted on purpose...
 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL


The bible isn't corrupt, but you sure are.
TheLordsServant

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02/15/2019 10:33 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


A couple of sincere questions.

(1) Who is the Alpha and Omega refered to in the bible ?

(2) What is the definition of "Alpha and Omega" ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72985428


Good questions...and hotly debated.

Here's a 1611 King James Red Letter Bible in several formats. Red Letter means it SUPPOSEDLY has Jesus' words in the New Testament in "red lettering".

[link to archive.org (secure)]

The phrase "Alpha and Omega" is only used in Revelation.

If you take a look at Revelation 1 and 22 you will see that the phrase is indeed in red letters.

But yet, in Revelation 21:6, the phrase is NOT in red letters. And if you look at 21:5, you can see that "he who sat on the throne" starts speaking to John in 21:6.

IF Jesus is God Himself, then Why aren't the words highlighted then?

Because Jesus isn't the Father, the one who is on the throne.

Is it possible then that both the Father and the Son can be called "Alpha and Omega"?
-------------------------------------------

Comparisons of Revelation 1:11 in various Bibles.

Alpha and Omega are not in MOST of them.

AND not in the oldest manuscripts.

[link to www.biblestudytools.com (secure)]

[link to biblehub.com]

-------------------------------------------------------
The below is from here... [link to www.bibleanswerstand.org]

Comparisons Between God and the Man Jesus in Revelation 1:1-9

Having established the difference between God the Father and Jesus, the son of God, let us now contrast the differences as seen in the Book of Revelation. Comparisons between God and Jesus in the Book of Revelation are especially important, because at the time it was written, Jesus had already ascended into heaven, and was seated at the Father’s right hand for many years.

God Gave Jesus (the man) the Revelation

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John, (NAS)

Note that “God gave” Jesus Christ the “Revelation.” If Jesus is God in heaven, then why does he need another God to give him the revelation? Obviously this proves God is different than Jesus Christ.

The Word Of God and Testimony Of Jesus Are Separate

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God AND to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. (NAS)

The contrast in Revelation 1:2 is seen with the use of the conjunction, “AND,” because the word “AND” separates the phrase, “the word of God” from the phrase, “the testimony of Jesus.” The apostle John, who received the revelation, bore witness to two separate beings.

He ‘Who Is And Who Was And Who Is To Come’ Is Separate From Jesus

Revelation 1:4-6 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood, AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)

John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly from WHOM the message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND from Jesus Christ.” The word, “and,” is a conjunction, which divides and separates. This alone PROVES Jesus is not the same as God, and later, in Revelation 1:8, this is verified.

God the Father, who is also known as Yahweh in the OT, is the One, “who is,” because in Exodus 3:14 He tells Moses His name, saying, “I AM THAT I AM.” This is an incomplete translation of the Hebrew wording, “Ehyeh Asshur Ehyeh.” This Hebrew term is more accurately translated as, “I exist {present tense} as what I AM, and what I have always existed as {in the past tense}, and what I will continue to exist as {in the future}.” This Hebrew phrase matches the Greek equivalent description in Revelation 1:4 perfectly as, “Him who is {in the present} and who was {in the past} and who is to come {in the future}.” .

Jesus Cannot Be God If He Is The Firstborn From Among The Dead

Secondly, in order of rank and importance, John writes concerning Jesus by calling him, “the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead,” who, “released us from our sins by his blood.” Again as mentioned earlier, God cannot die, nor does He have blood like a man.


Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 02/15/2019 10:37 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Raheem
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
" These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:" Rv3:14
 Quoting: DGN


Because the bible was corrupted on purpose...
 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL





That is an interesting philosophy, but, on the note of unity, all the religions are divided.

There is one teaching that all religions have in common. It is the only uniting teaching.

What is that teaching?


It is the Messiah
DGN  (OP)

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
DGN  (OP)

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
 Quoting: DGN


So who does Jesus think God is, himself?
NoFriendOfTheWorld

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
 Quoting: DGN


So who does Jesus think God is, himself?
 Quoting: DGN


Don't you realize that Jesus is the living Word of God, and that The living Word of God became a man? Do you realize that every single time the Old Testament says, "and the Word of the Lord came unto...." that THAT was Jesus? Jesus IS God's Words come to life. They cannot be separated in that sense.

When Jesus speaks, it's God who speaks.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells Philip that by seeing Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father:

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus says in John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

If you had the power to cause your very words, which come from your brain in the form of thoughts, to be embodied in human form, would that human who speaks your words not still be YOU? Or would he be someone else? Answer that question truthfully and you'll understand.

Last Edited by NoFriendOfTheWorld on 02/16/2019 11:40 AM
DGN  (OP)

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
 Quoting: DGN


So who does Jesus think God is, himself?
 Quoting: DGN


Don't you realize that Jesus is the living Word of God, and that The living Word of God became a man? Do you realize that every single time the Old Testament says, "and the Word of the Lord came unto...." that THAT was Jesus? Jesus IS God's Words come to life. They cannot be separated in that sense.

When Jesus speaks, it's God who speaks.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells Philip that by seeing Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father:

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus says in John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

If you had the power to cause your very words, which come from your brain in the form of thoughts, to be embodied in human form, would that human who speaks your words not still be YOU? Or would he be someone else? Answer that question truthfully and you'll understand.
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


Yes God's only begotten son is his word or spokesman.
NoFriendOfTheWorld

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
 Quoting: DGN


So who does Jesus think God is, himself?
 Quoting: DGN


Don't you realize that Jesus is the living Word of God, and that The living Word of God became a man? Do you realize that every single time the Old Testament says, "and the Word of the Lord came unto...." that THAT was Jesus? Jesus IS God's Words come to life. They cannot be separated in that sense.

When Jesus speaks, it's God who speaks.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells Philip that by seeing Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father:

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus says in John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

If you had the power to cause your very words, which come from your brain in the form of thoughts, to be embodied in human form, would that human who speaks your words not still be YOU? Or would he be someone else? Answer that question truthfully and you'll understand.
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


Yes God's only begotten son is his word or spokesman.
 Quoting: DGN


Correct, which makes Him God, the I Am.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The Pharisees understood what Jesus was claiming because right after he said that:

John 8:59
Then took they up stones to cast at him......
DGN  (OP)

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
...


So who does Jesus think God is, himself?
 Quoting: DGN


Don't you realize that Jesus is the living Word of God, and that The living Word of God became a man? Do you realize that every single time the Old Testament says, "and the Word of the Lord came unto...." that THAT was Jesus? Jesus IS God's Words come to life. They cannot be separated in that sense.

When Jesus speaks, it's God who speaks.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells Philip that by seeing Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father:

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus says in John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

If you had the power to cause your very words, which come from your brain in the form of thoughts, to be embodied in human form, would that human who speaks your words not still be YOU? Or would he be someone else? Answer that question truthfully and you'll understand.
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


Yes God's only begotten son is his word or spokesman.
 Quoting: DGN


Correct, which makes Him God, the I Am.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The Pharisees understood what Jesus was claiming because right after he said that:

John 8:59
Then took they up stones to cast at him......
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


"I am" is Jesus the spokesman quoting God similar to this;
.
"“To the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God" rv3:14
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:00 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


A couple of sincere questions.

(1) Who is the Alpha and Omega refered to in the bible ?

(2) What is the definition of "Alpha and Omega" ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72985428


I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelation 22:13

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:03 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:48

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:03 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
 Quoting: DGN

Don't you realize that Jesus is the living Word of God, and that The living Word of God became a man? Do you realize that every single time the Old Testament says, "and the Word of the Lord came unto...." that THAT was Jesus? Jesus IS God's Words come to life. They cannot be separated in that sense.

When Jesus speaks, it's God who speaks.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells Philip that by seeing Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father:

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus says in John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

If you had the power to cause your very words, which come from your brain in the form of thoughts, to be embodied in human form, would that human who speaks your words not still be YOU? Or would he be someone else? Answer that question truthfully and you'll understand.
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


Yes God's only begotten son is his word or spokesman.
 Quoting: DGN


Correct, which makes Him God, the I Am.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The Pharisees understood what Jesus was claiming because right after he said that:

John 8:59
Then took they up stones to cast at him......
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


Jesus is NOT the "I Am".

At NO POINT in scripture does Jesus proclaim "I AM GOD".

All you are doing is parroting a couple of others in this topic. Have you read any of the responses to their posts?

Who forgives our sins? Jesus TELLS us.

Matthew 6

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Jesus also said all of these

...the Father is GREATER than I. John 14:28
...I do ONLY the Father's Will. John 6:37-39
...I PRAY to the Father. Matthew 26:36-42, Mark 14:32-39 & John 17
...I say what the Father has said. John 12:49-50
...I learned / do as the Father has showed me. John 5:19
...I give THANKS to the Father. John 11:41
...I don't KNOW when I will return...ONLY the Father KNOWS. Matthew 24:36
...I tell you to ask the Father in MY name. John 14:13
...I go to sit at the Father's right hand. Matthew 26:64
...I ASCEND to the Father, MY GOD and YOUR GOD. John 20:17
...the Father has given me authority. Matthew 28:18
...only the Father is good.. Luke 18:19
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:04 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:06 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:08 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


A couple of sincere questions.

(1) Who is the Alpha and Omega refered to in the bible ?

(2) What is the definition of "Alpha and Omega" ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72985428


I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelation 22:13

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jehovah who else is eternal?
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:10 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Right Thomas was not the messiah/teacher/savior but he displayed genuine reverence for Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:10 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!