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If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:14 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
John 15

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.


--------------------------------------------
1 John 4

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
--------------------------------------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

---------------------------------------------

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


A couple of sincere questions.

(1) Who is the Alpha and Omega refered to in the bible ?

(2) What is the definition of "Alpha and Omega" ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72985428


I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelation 22:13

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jehovah who else is eternal?
 Quoting: DGN


Jesus said the one from revelation and God said the one in Isaiah. So either jesus was God or not telling the truth. Its very confusing.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:14 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He didn't rebuke thomas for blasphemy!
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:15 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Right because as God's spokesman Jesus quoted his Father, just like Moses when delivered the 10 commandments he said "I am what I am" but not referring to himself.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:17 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Who did Jesus say is his God and his disciples God?

"Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew: “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher!”) 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her." Jo20:16
 Quoting: DGN


So who does Jesus think God is, himself?
 Quoting: DGN


Don't you realize that Jesus is the living Word of God, and that The living Word of God became a man? Do you realize that every single time the Old Testament says, "and the Word of the Lord came unto...." that THAT was Jesus? Jesus IS God's Words come to life. They cannot be separated in that sense.

When Jesus speaks, it's God who speaks.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells Philip that by seeing Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father:

John 14:7-9
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus says in John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

If you had the power to cause your very words, which come from your brain in the form of thoughts, to be embodied in human form, would that human who speaks your words not still be YOU? Or would he be someone else? Answer that question truthfully and you'll understand.
 Quoting: NoFriendOfTheWorld


Yes God's only begotten son is his word or spokesman.
 Quoting: DGN


Here it is in a nut shell. Jesus came FORTH FROM the Father.

"I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again I leave the world and go to the Father."

The word (Jesus) who CAME FORTH BECAME flesh.

The "flesh man" Jesus was not God. The Flesh man housed the the spirit and word of God that CAME FORTH out of God.

The "FLESH" That housed the very word of God that CAME FORTH from God died. Not God. GOD can not die. Thus the "man/flesh" known as Jesus was God in the flesh.

The spiritual word of God (not the flesh man that housed the word of God) IS GOD.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God AND the word WAS GOD. Not "A" god of lesser rank than God.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:17 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:18 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Right because as God's spokesman Jesus quoted his Father, just like Moses when delivered the 10 commandments he said "I am what I am" but not referring to himself.
 Quoting: DGN


No he claimed Gods title and Moses just said I am sent me.
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:19 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Really? Did you not read my post that was several posts before yours? Here's a direct link.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77374108
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02/16/2019 01:21 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Really? Did you not read my post that was several posts before yours? Here's a direct link.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Refute it in words or dont.
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:24 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He didn't rebuke thomas for blasphemy!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


This verse explains why...

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And how is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 02/16/2019 01:25 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:25 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
...


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Right because as God's spokesman Jesus quoted his Father, just like Moses when delivered the 10 commandments he said "I am what I am" but not referring to himself.
 Quoting: DGN


No he claimed Gods title and Moses just said I am sent me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jesus claimed God's title?
"Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." Jo17
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:26 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
...


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Really? Did you not read my post that was several posts before yours? Here's a direct link.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Refute it in words or dont.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


I already did. Go Back and read what I said.

I'm not repeating it just for you.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77374108
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02/16/2019 01:27 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
So it seems jesus was saying he was God.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


No he wasn't.

The vast majority of what Jesus states refutes that conclusion.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He didn't rebuke thomas for blasphemy!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


This verse explains why...

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And how is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He still didn't rebuke it!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77374108
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02/16/2019 01:28 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
...


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Right because as God's spokesman Jesus quoted his Father, just like Moses when delivered the 10 commandments he said "I am what I am" but not referring to himself.
 Quoting: DGN


No he claimed Gods title and Moses just said I am sent me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jesus claimed God's title?
"Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." Jo17
 Quoting: DGN


Yes, the alpha and omega and the I am.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:28 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
...


He said he was the Alpha and Omega, the same that God spoke in Isaiah!!!

You cannot refute that fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Really? Did you not read my post that was several posts before yours? Here's a direct link.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Refute it in words or dont.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


I already did. Go Back and read what I said.

I'm not repeating it just for you.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


So copy and paste it then!
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:29 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man
That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die.
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:30 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
...


Right because as God's spokesman Jesus quoted his Father, just like Moses when delivered the 10 commandments he said "I am what I am" but not referring to himself.
 Quoting: DGN


No he claimed Gods title and Moses just said I am sent me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jesus claimed God's title?
"Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." Jo17
 Quoting: DGN


Yes, the alpha and omega and the I am.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Try this one last time
"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." Jo17:3
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:31 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
This verse explains why...

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And how is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He still didn't rebuke it!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Are you that narrow minding that you can't understand what John 5:23 states?

Jesus isn't God Himself - He's the Son OF God.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:35 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
This verse explains why...

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And how is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He still didn't rebuke it!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Are you that narrow minding that you can't understand what John 5:23 states?

Jesus isn't God Himself - He's the Son OF God.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


I think what AC108 is saying is 'when the bible contradicts him those pages should be torn out and burned', like in the dark ages.
dead3
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:38 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man
That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73015805


Mark 10:45, "The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? (Matthew 16:13).
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:39 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
This verse explains why...

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And how is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He still didn't rebuke it!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Are you that narrow minding that you can't understand what John 5:23 states?

Jesus isn't God Himself - He's the Son OF God.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Your lame wall of text still doesn't refute it. Yawn.
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:39 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Are you that narrow minding that you can't understand what John 5:23 states?

Jesus isn't God Himself - He's the Son OF God.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
.............................................
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


I think what AC108 is saying is 'when the bible contradicts him those pages should be torn out and burned', like in the dark ages.
dead3
 Quoting: DGN


They would love it.

Or they would rewrite it.

Thread: Rewrite the Bible IF Jesus is "The Father / God Almighty Himself"
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77374108
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02/16/2019 01:40 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man
That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73015805


Mark 10:45, "The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? (Matthew 16:13).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jesus wasn't a son of Man!
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:42 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man
That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73015805


Mark 10:45, "The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? (Matthew 16:13).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jesus wasn't a son of Man!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Yet he was born of a woman AND called Himself such several times!

1doh1
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73015805
United States
02/16/2019 01:44 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man
That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73015805


Notice the scripture. God and the son of man are represented as one.


Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall HE not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall HEnot make it good?

If the Son of man was separate and not God in the flesh, it would have said "THEY" can not lie or repent.

The word of God came FORTH out OF GOD. God manifested in "the flesh" the Flesh died. )Not the Word that was with God and WAS GOD.) and was resurrected.

The Word was with God AND the Word WAS GOD.
DGN  (OP)

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02/16/2019 01:44 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
This verse explains why...

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And how is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


He still didn't rebuke it!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Are you that narrow minding that you can't understand what John 5:23 states?

Jesus isn't God Himself - He's the Son OF God.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Your lame wall of text still doesn't refute it. Yawn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108

See what I mean, calling God's word lame compared to himself, while claiming to understand it.
" All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." 2Ti3:16

Last Edited by DGN on 02/16/2019 01:45 PM
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:46 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Are you that narrow minding that you can't understand what John 5:23 states?

Jesus isn't God Himself - He's the Son OF God.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
.......................................
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Your lame wall of text still doesn't refute it. Yawn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


You're simply too lazy to read the evidence.

"Wall of text" are Bible verses. You have something against reading Bible verses?

Jesus' own words in the 4 Gospels, His use of phrases like "My Father", "My God", "the Father", "SENT Me", "the kingdom OF God" etc...tell me, and SHOULD tell other folks exactly who He is.

God Himself would NOT have spoken this way, and those terms, and the ones below, wouldn't even EXIST if Jesus was actually the Father Himself.

"the Christ"
"the Messiah"
"the Lamb OF God"
"the Son OF God"
"Holy One OF God"
"advocate to the Father for sinners" "advocate with the Father"
"a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec"
"one mediator between God and men"

"the Father is GREATER than Me"
"I learned FROM the Father"
"I do ONLY the Father's Will, NOT mine"

To me, THESE are the "defining statements", made by Jesus Himself, that tell us who He is.

The theory of "Jesus is God Himself" requires a person to completely IGNORE these statements & terms.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:49 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man
That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73015805


Notice the scripture. God and the son of man are represented as one.

Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall HE not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall HEnot make it good?

If the Son of man was separate and not God in the flesh, it would have said "THEY" can not lie or repent.

The word of God came FORTH out OF GOD. God manifested in "the flesh" the Flesh died. )Not the Word that was with God and WAS GOD.) and was resurrected.

The Word was with God AND the Word WAS GOD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73015805


The Son OF God was manifested in the flesh.

Read the opening to Revelation.

And God cannot die. Yet Jesus died, albeit in human form.

Have you read any of the other posts in this thread?

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 02/16/2019 01:50 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2019 01:51 PM
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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Believe what you want I don't care. But it contradicts each other clearly.
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:52 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Your lame wall of text still doesn't refute it. Yawn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Jesus uses the phrase "My Father" 50+ times

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Jesus uses the phrase "the Father" about 75 times

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The Apostles use it another 55+ times

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Jesus uses the phrase "SENT Me" 39 times

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The phrase "Son of God" is used 28 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The phrase "Son of God" is used 19 times in Acts thru Revelation

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The phrase "kingdom of God" (NOT "MY kingdom") is used 54 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TheLordsServant

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02/16/2019 01:55 PM

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Re: If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
Believe what you want I don't care. But it contradicts each other clearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77374108


Only you "Jesus is the Father Himself" people see these things as a contradiction.

The uniqueness of Jesus as the only-begotten Son OF God meshes it all together perfectly.

horn2

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 02/16/2019 01:55 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.