If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?

No I'm not. Your response is typical evangelical bullshite.

Attack the messenger when you can't disprove the bulk of scripture.

The "Son OF God" is exactly that.

And your "Jesus IS God" is false doctrine.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

Right,Jesus was the beginning of Jehovah's creation, not the earth as cited in Genesis.

"Jesus Saves" is a popular phrase and even a song title.

Yet...Who actually forgives our sins? Jesus TELLS us.

Matthew 6

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Jesus forgived the thieves on the cross.

Not both - just one of them.

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Luke 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

Jesus also said this on the cross

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

A little fine tuning trivia on judgement;
'Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes alive whomever he wants to. 22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father" Jo5:19

You are void of scriptural truth. Jesus forgave sins. Why and how could the man Jesus forgive sins? Because it was God in the flesh. That's why.

And here is all the scriptures that state Jesus forgave sins.

[link to www.biblegateway.com (secure)]

"So all may honor the son JUST AS the honor the Father".

Say, did you notice that? Probably not and will likely have an excuse to diminish it.

Honor the son JUST AS they Honor the father. "JUST AS" means with EQUALITY.

I bet that just grates at your spirit to think Jesus be honored with Equality...

Honoring Him is not total equality. And Jesus' own words tell us different.

...the Father is GREATER than I. John 14:28
...I do ONLY the Father's Will. John 6:37-39
...I PRAY to the Father. Matthew 26:36-42, Mark 14:32-39 & John 17
...I say what the Father has said. John 12:49-50
...I learned / do as the Father has showed me. John 5:19
...I give THANKS to the Father. John 11:41
...I don't KNOW when I will return...ONLY the Father KNOWS. Matthew 24:36
...I tell you to ask the Father in MY name. John 14:13
...I go to sit at the Father's right hand. Matthew 26:64
...I ASCEND to the Father, MY GOD and YOUR GOD. John 20:17
...the Father has given me authority. Matthew 28:18
...only the Father is good.. Luke 18:19

How do you honor Jehovah?

Judgement is at the end times, which is when Jesus will judge.

The Father "has entrusted" judging to Jesus.

just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him


So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I HAD alongside you BEFORE the world was.

Did you switch sides with this post or are you unaware of what you posted? The scripture you posted tells us Jesus has authority of ALL flesh and that he had glory alongside the Father before the creation of the world.

By exposing cults in sheep's clothing.

No seriously, "I" don't. Not "I" but it is Christ in me...

Just because Jesus forgave sins doesn't mean that He's the originator.

The Father obviously GAVE Him the right to forgive, just as Jesus told the Apostles that they could forgive.

You're void of the Father...you haven't been allowed to talk to Him yet because of your nasty attitude.

Trinitarianism is a cult that's been around for 1800 years.

Jesus never said He was equal to God.

But you folks just can't comprehend scripture.

Huh I thought you were Jewish not a JW. Jesus calls himself Lord of the Sabbath. The Jews attempted to stone him after he said Abraham rejoiced for his day and when he said before Abram was "I am". They took this as him calling himself God which is why they tried to stone him

He says in John 10:38 the Father is not only in him but the Son in the Father.

“You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.” (John 13:13)

Exodus 33:20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

Exodus 33:11
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

"You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!"
Meet the Real Jesus Many Hate

Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees "fools, hypocrites, blind guides, whited sepulchers, murderers, a generation of snakes," and many such epithets. Jesus called them "hypocrites" seven times in one chapter. He spoke with scathing derision to the Scribes and Pharisees throughout His ministry; very few of them received a kind word from Him.

And yet Christians write and say Im void of the Father. Was Jesus void of the Father? Or other tell me that Jesus never spoke like this or ever said a cruel or angry word in His life. Therefore when I sometimes write with an edge on my voice I am accused of not following the example of Jesus. Oh but Jesus surely did speak harshly, demeaningly, and with great anger in His voice to the Scribes and Pharisees - the religious Leaders of God's Church. Jesus was not mild and soft-spoken when it came to the sins and hypocrisy of these church leaders. Too many Christians have read the teachings of Jesus with rose-colored glasses covering both their eyes and their minds.

Not once did I promote trinitarism. You apparently lack good reading and comprehension skills.

for DGN or the Lord's truth or whatever he calls himself, to retort.

Yes the final judgement for salvation at the end of the 1,000 years. Coming upon this world soon is the Armageddon judgement, deciding who in current time will be granted deliverance thru the tribulation, a 'great crowd' yes but extremely few. Rv7:14

God being born through mother Mary is both God and Son of God. Jesus is definitely a God, and since there is one God..

Hebrews 1:5-14 King James Version (KJV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

uuuh,what bible are you quoting from ?
does it contain JOHN 1 ?

read it online then.

Read this right here, or go chase validation for your brazin defiance;

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, yes, he cried out: “This was the one of whom I said, ‘The one coming behind me has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.’”) 16 For we all received from his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness. 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him." Jo1

Last Edited by DGN on 02/17/2019 01:45 AM

Hey tards... if you are not genetically related to the chosen you're a dsmn fool for believing their religion. May your kin have mercy on your souls when you awake in Yygdrasil.

Hey thanks for the heads up.

Sure thing JW, spreading your religious filth. Soon, very soon your publishing company will be broke from all the lawsuits...

"Jesus is God Himself" is just one step off the trinitarian bandwagon.

Your lack of explanation doesn't equate to your perceived assesment of my skills.

The FACT of scripture states that Jesus is the Son OF God.

Not God Himself.

You refuse to accept the vast majority of scriptural evidence that supports such truth, chosing to use cherry-picked verses to prove your false doctrine.

It's sad that you folks ignore what Jesus actually states in favor of what humans stated.

Jesus said all of these. Did He lie?

...the Father is GREATER than I. John 14:28
...I do ONLY the Father's Will. John 6:37-39
...I PRAY to the Father. Matthew 26:36-42, Mark 14:32-39 & John 17
...I say what the Father has said. John 12:49-50
...I learned / do as the Father has showed me. John 5:19
...I give THANKS to the Father. John 11:41
...I don't KNOW when I will return...ONLY the Father KNOWS. Matthew 24:36
...I tell you to ask the Father in MY name. John 14:13
...I go to sit at the Father's right hand. Matthew 26:64
...I ASCEND to the Father, MY GOD and YOUR GOD. John 20:17
...the Father has given me authority. Matthew 28:18
...only the Father is good.. Luke 18:19

Why is such simple truth beyond understanding, even for 'believers'?
" If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God is the one who said: “Let the light shine out of darkness,” and he has shone on our hearts to illuminate them with the glorious knowledge of God by the face of Christ." 2Cor4;3