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Challenging the Christians on this board

 
friendofGod
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06/10/2007 01:03 AM
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Challenging the Christians on this board
I have spent almost three years frequenting this forum, I have had many debates, mostly with fellow christians in regard to faith and beliefs and what is the true doctrine of Christ. I have been proven wrong many times in my personal theology but came to understand and was able to repent and acknowledge i was wrong, because of my foundation of truth in Christ. In everything I debate with others I always place everything on my foundation of truth.

truth has become almost a buzzword it seems, and I wonder how other christians consider what they debate as true or not. scripture can be interpreted so many different ways it seems, and I notice that we always interpret scripture according to how we understand our knowledge of truth.

Jesus said that he was the way the truth and the life...He also said that we would know the truth and the truth would set us free.

In contrast to truth, there is also the lie. Satan/devil is called dthe father of the lie and all lies.

John says to those who are believers in 1 John 2

""20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.""

My question, or challenge to those who are christians and who proclaim to know Christ is this....

What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to be, and that we would also know that would set us free?

and on the flip side


What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

bear in mind that the 'truth' and the 'lie' will be in contrast to each other, and at opposite ends of the spectrum.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Neesie

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06/10/2007 01:17 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
in the beginning in the garden satan told eve."you shall not surely die, you will become like god having the knowledge of good and evil" but satan lied. because the wages of sin is death. when they ate the fruit they gave themselves a death sentence.
.A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.

C. S. Lewis
Neesie

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06/10/2007 01:19 AM
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if you accept christ as your saviour, and live your life without sin you will not die, but live forever.
.A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.

C. S. Lewis
mopar28m

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06/10/2007 01:31 AM

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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
I have spent almost three years frequenting this forum, I have had many debates, mostly with fellow christians in regard to faith and beliefs and what is the true doctrine of Christ. I have been proven wrong many times in my personal theology but came to understand and was able to repent and acknowledge i was wrong, because of my foundation of truth in Christ. In everything I debate with others I always place everything on my foundation of truth.

truth has become almost a buzzword it seems, and I wonder how other christians consider what they debate as true or not. scripture can be interpreted so many different ways it seems, and I notice that we always interpret scripture according to how we understand our knowledge of truth.

Jesus said that he was the way the truth and the life...He also said that we would know the truth and the truth would set us free.

In contrast to truth, there is also the lie. Satan/devil is called dthe father of the lie and all lies.

John says to those who are believers in 1 John 2

""20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.""

My question, or challenge to those who are christians and who proclaim to know Christ is this....

What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to be, and that we would also know that would set us free?

and on the flip side


What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

bear in mind that the 'truth' and the 'lie' will be in contrast to each other, and at opposite ends of the spectrum.
 Quoting: friendofGod


Truth = Torah. The word came to this word as flesh. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God & the word was God. There is only 1 lawgiver. (James 4:12)

Jesus said himself "til heaven & earth pass away, not one jot, not one tittle will pass away from the law until ALL is fulfilled." Part of that fulfillment is Jesus returning to earth & setting up his kingdom. After he returns, ALL will keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16)
vaccinefreehealth.blogspot.com

The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 01:32 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
if you accept christ as your saviour, and live your life without sin you will not die, but live forever.
 Quoting: Neesie

"If you say you have no sin, the truth is not in you."
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 01:52 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
I have spent almost three years frequenting this forum, I have had many debates, mostly with fellow christians in regard to faith and beliefs and what is the true doctrine of Christ. I have been proven wrong many times in my personal theology but came to understand and was able to repent and acknowledge i was wrong, because of my foundation of truth in Christ. In everything I debate with others I always place everything on my foundation of truth.

truth has become almost a buzzword it seems, and I wonder how other christians consider what they debate as true or not. scripture can be interpreted so many different ways it seems, and I notice that we always interpret scripture according to how we understand our knowledge of truth.

Jesus said that he was the way the truth and the life...He also said that we would know the truth and the truth would set us free.

In contrast to truth, there is also the lie. Satan/devil is called dthe father of the lie and all lies.

John says to those who are believers in 1 John 2

""20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.""

My question, or challenge to those who are christians and who proclaim to know Christ is this....

What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to be, and that we would also know that would set us free?

and on the flip side


What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

bear in mind that the 'truth' and the 'lie' will be in contrast to each other, and at opposite ends of the spectrum.
 Quoting: friendofGod

the truth of Jesus is the God is our salvation
that is the meaning of his name
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 01:52 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
so, the lie
is that we can save ourselves without God
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 02:02 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
in the beginning in the garden satan told eve."you shall not surely die, you will become like god having the knowledge of good and evil" but satan lied. because the wages of sin is death. when they ate the fruit they gave themselves a death sentence.
 Quoting: Neesie


if you accept christ as your saviour, and live your life without sin you will not die, but live forever.
 Quoting: Neesie


What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:03 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
Jesus tells us to confess our sins
and pray for forgiveness and cleansing
and if we fall
we must get back up
and not wallow in it

also, we need the Holy Spirit to animate our holy lives
Xare

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06/10/2007 02:04 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
so, the lie
is that we can save ourselves without God
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199


Incorrect

The Lie is that we can be as God.



The Serpent said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You will not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat from the fruit of any tree in the garden. But from the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
God said: 'You will not eat from it and you will not touch it, lest you die.'"

The serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. For God knows that on the day when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. "




The serpent tempted Eve with Knowledge

Intellect !

To KNOW


Lucifer the serpent, the fallen angel, is rebelling. He seeks to place himself above the most high.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:08 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
to be as god
is to save yourself without God
it's the same thing
Xare

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06/10/2007 02:12 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
K, just wanted to make their intentions clearer.

This is the Essence of Luciferianism, to claim that you are a GOD.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:13 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
right
and people who claim to be god
do not admit they need God to save them
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:14 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
luciferians teach that if you have the knowlege of good and evil you are like God
but, they lie
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 02:15 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
Truth = Torah. The word came to this word as flesh. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God & the word was God. There is only 1 lawgiver. (James 4:12)

Jesus said himself "til heaven & earth pass away, not one jot, not one tittle will pass away from the law until ALL is fulfilled." Part of that fulfillment is Jesus returning to earth & setting up his kingdom. After he returns, ALL will keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16)
 Quoting: mopar28m


If the truth is the Torah law, and the knowledge of good and evil is demonstrated in the torah law...why would eating from this tree that gave this knowledge, bring death upon mankind and not life?

As far as your interpretation of scripture regarding heaven and earth passing away when all is fulfilled, this could be interpreted differently if heaven and earth are meant to be symbolically and not literal.

Isaiah 24:1-5 –


“See, the Lord is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants...The earth will be completely laid waste...The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.”
[NIV]


This passage is a prophecy of the coming attack and conquest by the Assyrians over the Jewish people. It should be obvious that the word EARTH is used as a symbol here, representing the place of the peoples or nation involved. The Assyrian army, used unwittingly as a tool of retribution by God, would come and destroy cities, and burn and loot the land, taking the people captive and killing many of them. The “inhabitants” of the earth would be “scattered” – that is, scattered abroad in captivity. If the earth is meant to be the literal globe, utterly devastated and made empty by God, then the scattered inhabitants would have been instant astronauts!


The EARTH, here, is a symbol of the promised land of Palestine that had become defiled due to the disobedience of God’s chosen people. They had violated the Law, and now they would reap the retribution of God.

ISAIAH 1:2 –


“Hear, 0 heavens! Listen, 0 earth!....”
[NIV]

This vision was to serve as a warning to the nation of Judah. It was not given to all of humanity, nor was it published or made known universally to all mankind. HEAVENS here refers to the religious and political authorities of Judah, and EARTH refers to the place and the people involved, and so to all the inhabitants of Judah.


ISAIAH 34:1-8 –


“...Hearken, ye people: let the earth hear....All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll....For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment....For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance.”

This passage is a prophecy of the destruction of Edom (Idumea), a prophecy so literally fulfilled that this land is barren and waste even today. The EARTH was the peoples of Edom, who were to hear this prophecy against them. God was angry with them and this was their warning of the coming destruction (“the day of the Lord’s vengeance”). This prophecy was not intended or designed to be heard and attended to by peoples of other lands.


The HEAVENS that would be “dissolved” and “rolled together” (like a discarded scroll of parchment), were the political/religious authorities of Edom – its government and armies and those who led that nation away from God’s path (v.2.). God’s bloody sword would be bathed in HEAVEN. The symbol is explained within that very passage in verse 5: “it shall come down upon Idumea.” God’s sword was not bloodied in God’s own heavenly spiritual realm, but rather in the “heaven” that was the worldly realm of the Edomite leaders.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:16 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
the torah is not truth
it tells us of truth
the messiah, Jesus Christ
it's like a signpost
pointing to Christ
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:16 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
I think the world is flat and that humans are the only intelligent life in the Universe. The Bible says so.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:16 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
you can't build a whole theological system from one passage of scripture
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:17 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
I think the world is flat and that humans are the only intelligent life in the Universe. The Bible says so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52939

the Bible does not say that
if it does
show me where
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:20 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
Truth = Torah. The word came to this word as flesh. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God & the word was God. There is only 1 lawgiver. (James 4:12)

Jesus said himself "til heaven & earth pass away, not one jot, not one tittle will pass away from the law until ALL is fulfilled." Part of that fulfillment is Jesus returning to earth & setting up his kingdom. After he returns, ALL will keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16)
 Quoting: mopar28m




Hi Mopar, hf

I left the scriptures you quoted, because it is refeshing to see them here on GLP. My question to you, or anyone,

why?... do you say the Torah=Truth??

I'm not denying that at all, I have never read it. But is it considered more trustworthy, as a holy book of past, present and future than the Holy Bible?
Xare

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06/10/2007 02:20 AM
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And the Truth is Love

We Love God and will Obey him.

We even Love the Lost

And that is the truth brothers.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:22 AM
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of course
because Jesus is the love of God manifested in human form
and we receive his Holy Spirit of love as well

the dead letter of the law kills
the spirit gives life
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:22 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
the torah is not truth
it tells us of truth
the messiah, Jesus Christ
it's like a signpost
pointing to Christ
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199


hUh?? 'splain that, please?
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 02:27 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
so, the lie
is that we can save ourselves without God


Incorrect

The Lie is that we can be as God.



The Serpent said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You will not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat from the fruit of any tree in the garden. But from the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
God said: 'You will not eat from it and you will not touch it, lest you die.'"

The serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. For God knows that on the day when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. "




The serpent tempted Eve with Knowledge

Intellect !

To KNOW


Lucifer the serpent, the fallen angel, is rebelling. He seeks to place himself above the most high.
 Quoting: Xare


i consider the lie to be fathered in the heavens before the garden scenario with Eve, and the motivation behind all of the lies manifested since.. I don't see it as a specific spoken and verbalized action, but an inner corrupt desire that can rule our spirit and soul in darkness. If the truth is to set us free, then it is to set us free from the lie that has ruled our souls prior to knowing Christ as the Truth.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:30 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
Truth = Torah. The word came to this word as flesh. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God & the word was God. There is only 1 lawgiver. (James 4:12)

Jesus said himself "til heaven & earth pass away, not one jot, not one tittle will pass away from the law until ALL is fulfilled." Part of that fulfillment is Jesus returning to earth & setting up his kingdom. After he returns, ALL will keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16)




Hi Mopar, hf

I left the scriptures you quoted, because it is refeshing to see them here on GLP. My question to you, or anyone,

why?... do you say the Torah=Truth??

I'm not denying that at all, I have never read it. But is it considered more trustworthy, as a holy book of past, present and future than the Holy Bible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


Jesus taught the truth or the word. The torah is all he had to teach from at the time. The new testament or the magnification scriptures were written MUCH later. The new testament doesn't do away with any of the old testament or the Torah. It just reinforces them.

Torah & Old testament are the same thing.
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 02:33 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board

And the Truth is Love
/quote]

So if the truth is love...and I am agreeing fully with you on this because God is Truth and God is love...then by contrast would you agree the lie must be the opposite which is hate?
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:33 AM
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What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

LOL Okaay, that's an easy one

(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.

The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:35 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

LOL Okaay, that's an easy one

(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.

The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


When he returns, the first thing he going to do is wage war against those who try to kill him at his return. (at Migeddo) You can read this in Revelation. Then the antichrist will thrown into the lake of fire.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:36 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
By the way, hello to all of you on this thread hf,

Just letting you all know, my name is Mama, and I am drawn to threads that might be about the Lord. And reading how others believe.
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 02:36 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
Truth = Torah. The word came to this word as flesh. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God & the word was God. There is only 1 lawgiver. (James 4:12)

Jesus said himself "til heaven & earth pass away, not one jot, not one tittle will pass away from the law until ALL is fulfilled." Part of that fulfillment is Jesus returning to earth & setting up his kingdom. After he returns, ALL will keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16)




Hi Mopar, hf

I left the scriptures you quoted, because it is refeshing to see them here on GLP. My question to you, or anyone,

why?... do you say the Torah=Truth??

I'm not denying that at all, I have never read it. But is it considered more trustworthy, as a holy book of past, present and future than the Holy Bible?


Jesus taught the truth or the word. The torah is all he had to teach from at the time. The new testament or the magnification scriptures were written MUCH later. The new testament doesn't do away with any of the old testament or the Torah. It just reinforces them.

Torah & Old testament are the same thing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 249279


Mopar

Do you understand this phrase spoken by Jesus also translated this way

I am the way, the Torah, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:40 AM
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What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

LOL Okaay, that's an easy one

(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.

The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?


When he returns, the first thing he going to do is wage war against those who try to kill him at his return. (at Migeddo) You can read this in Revelation. Then the antichrist will thrown into the lake of fire.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 249279




~ Migeddo ~ have to say, I like that. May I use it also?





GLP