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Challenging the Christians on this board

 
007
User ID: 249576
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06/10/2007 02:42 AM
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THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHRISTIAN .ONLY IN FAIRYTALES GET REAL MATE....
Xare

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06/10/2007 02:45 AM
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What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

LOL Okaay, that's an easy one

(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.

The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?


When he returns, the first thing he going to do is wage war against those who try to kill him at his return. (at Migeddo) You can read this in Revelation. Then the antichrist will thrown into the lake of fire.




~ Migeddo ~ have to say, I like that. May I use it also?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


(Har means hill / mountain)

Megiddo, Mt. Megiddo, Har Megiddo, Har-Megeddon, Harmagedon, ARMAGEDON !!


Megiddo is the first BATTLEFIELD.


Will it be the last as well ?
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 02:50 AM
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What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

LOL Okaay, that's an easy one

(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.

The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


Just to look at the scriptures regarding the battle of Christ..

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”

Paul speaks of the battle in past tense in verse 27...He doesn't say 'will' put all things under His feet, but 'has'(past tense) put all things under His feet.

This is actually a quote from Psalm 8:6

4 What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

When Jesus died on the cross He said 'It is finished'

The last enemy was destroyed. It is only because of his victory in this regard that we have the opportunity to receive eternal spiritual life. If Christ has not yet accomplished the destruction of the last enemy, then we cannot claim to have eternal life. Do we have it? John tells us in 1 John 5:13 –


“These things have I written unto you…That ye may know that ye have eternal life.”
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:56 AM
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The torah is all he had to teach from at the time.

< Okay, that makes sense. I have read somewhere on the net that the Torah is for Jewish people only. Is there anything to that?

I can understand the Torah, tablets, or, whatever the Word was written on something, at the time Christ Jesus walked the earth. I'm curious as to how what was in the Torah was added to the Old and New Testaments. I thought it was only the first few books of the Old Testament, that are in the Torah? >





The new testament or the magnification scriptures were written MUCH later.

<Okay, a question I asked, answered>



The new testament doesn't do away with any of the old testament or the Torah. It just reinforces them.

<Okay. And is there ANYTHING else added TO the Torah?>




Torah & Old testament are the same thing.

<What chapters of the Old Testament, are not in the Torah?




Jesus spoke,
'I am the way, the Torah, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me'.

That's very interesting. Was it spoke that way originally, in Arabic? Is spoke like that, in the KJV?
Xare

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06/10/2007 02:56 AM
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There is another "tree in the garden" promised to those who follow the path.

The Tree of Life


And when we are ready, each of us can partake.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 03:05 AM
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What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

<LOL Okaay, that's an easy one>(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.
The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?




Friend of God asked:
Just to look at the scriptures regarding the battle of Christ..

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”
* * * * * * *





"Paul speaks of the battle in past tense in verse 27...He doesn't say 'will' put all things under His feet, but 'has'(past tense) put all things under His feet."



To Friend of God,
Hi. I have to ask you to please give what book, what chapter, for those of us that don't know right off, where to look. I personally use two different bibles any time I do any study, like now. I prefer to read these verses first. Would you mind, please? Thanks. hf
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 03:11 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

<LOL Okaay, that's an easy one>(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.
The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?




Friend of God asked:
Just to look at the scriptures regarding the battle of Christ..

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”
* * * * * * *





"Paul speaks of the battle in past tense in verse 27...He doesn't say 'will' put all things under His feet, but 'has'(past tense) put all things under His feet."



To Friend of God,
Hi. I have to ask you to please give what book, what chapter, for those of us that don't know right off, where to look. I personally use two different bibles any time I do any study, like now. I prefer to read these verses first. Would you mind, please? Thanks. hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


The passage reagrding the last enemy already destroyed was quoted from 1 Corinthians 15 and is confirmed again by Paul in 2 Timothy 1 verse 10

10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
11And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 160058
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06/10/2007 03:19 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
There is another "tree in the garden" promised to those who follow the path.

The Tree of Life

And when we are ready, each of us can partake.
 Quoting: Xare





Last page of Revelation
Chapter 22:19

And if any man shall take away, subtract, any words of

these prophecies in this book.

God shall take away his part, his share,

in the Tree of Life,

out of the Holy City, as described from the things in this book.






Xare,
Hi there. The Tree of Life is also something I would like to hear more of. Thanks for posting that.
H2O
User ID: 249596
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06/10/2007 03:39 AM
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Greetings dear fellow soldier of Jesus, our King, and our supreme commander.

The King of Kings, is our chief, top leader, as it is written, All power was given unto him, by Our FATHER. who is in Him, and also us, if we obey His commands. To the point, of full faith, as did Gideon, and all the other servants, as well as all the prophets, including Jonah, and more importantly, the Apostles.

So, this truth, we seek, is not given, to everyone, and it would seem, that even those who seek it, get it in steps, as each of us are able to receive it.

The people who deny the power of GOD, as it is also written, are who I speak of, when I say, that NOT everyone, can gain the truth.

As you know, there is the milk of the Word, and the Meat of the Word.

But there are also lessons and knowledge in between the milk, and the meat.

But wait, there is more much more !

After you receive the Meat of the Word, and embrace it, you will find the there is roughage and even strong meat.

This can not be obtained all at once !

There are 1st stage Christians, and even 4th stage Christians.

A 1st stage, or level, Christian, will puke on the strong meat of the Word, so we must learn in steps, as each of us are prepared.

I could and would love to explain, some of the strong meat, that I know about, as I myself walk up that path, that is laden with stumbling blocks, but you will have to take you're own walk, with The Holy Spirit. The thing to remember, is when you stumble, you just get right back up, and continue on towards the straight gate. It may take some people longer, to get there, but keep thy faith Strong, and be loyal to our KING JESUS, and nothing can stop you !

Love H2O
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 03:39 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
There is another "tree in the garden" promised to those who follow the path.

The Tree of Life

And when we are ready, each of us can partake.





Last page of Revelation
Chapter 22:19

And if any man shall take away, subtract, any words of

these prophecies in this book.

God shall take away his part, his share,

in the Tree of Life,

out of the Holy City, as described from the things in this book.






Xare,
Hi there. The Tree of Life is also something I would like to hear more of. Thanks for posting that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


I have done much meditating on the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In some cases i think they are spoken in a figurative description. When it comes to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, i don't think that the tree itself possesed any power in itself, but was able to contain this knowledge only because God had given the commandment regarding abstaining from it. without the commandment to abstain from it and the disobedience that followed then there would be no ability for it to manifest this knowledge of good and evil.

The tree of life on the other hand, if you look right before in the verse 17 before you quoted verse 19, it does not reflect a tree bearing fruit that gives live, but water that gives life...

17The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

i think we have to be careful in determining whether figurative language is used or literal when it comes to the book of Revelation especially.

Jesus is said to be the resurrection and the life, He also says we must eat His flesh and drink his blood to receive eternal life, again I say these are used figuratively and not in the literal sense. i consider the tree of life to be a representation of the fulness of life and Truth just as Christ also is. And the tree of knowledge of good and evil to be representative of the lie and death.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 03:40 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

<LOL Okaay, that's an easy one>(Christ Jesus was crucified
for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him.
The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?




Friend of God asked:
Just to look at the scriptures regarding the battle of Christ..

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”
* * * * * * *





"Paul speaks of the battle in past tense in verse 27...He doesn't say 'will' put all things under His feet, but 'has'(past tense) put all things under His feet."
***********************************************************

<To Friend of God,
Hi. I have to ask you to please give what book, what chapter, for those of us that don't know right off, where to look. I personally use two different bibles any time I do any study, like now. I prefer to read these verses first. Would you mind, please? Thanks. hf>


The passage reagrding the last enemy already destroyed was quoted from 1 Corinthians 15 and is confirmed again by Paul in 2 Timothy 1 verse 10

10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
11And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.
 Quoting: friendofGod

***********************************************************I interpret that a little differently. I could again quote using both versions, but it would take me awhile, and time I don't have right now, to type or copy from an on-line source.. I'm getting ready to get into the kitchen to start preparing to cook five pounds-worth of hamburgers
at 4:00am, LOL. Hubby * I keep some odd hours..

If you have time, how about checking out just that particular verse with some other bibles on line, unless you have these, at home:
KJV, and The Living Bible.
I appreciate that I can verify The LB with the KJV. Both of mine, I understand this to mean, for all time, until Christ returns. Which is very soon.

27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”
* * * * * * *





"Paul speaks of the battle in past tense in verse 27...He doesn't say 'will' put all things under His feet, but 'has'(past tense) put all things under His feet."
***********************************************************
Lady Wolf

User ID: 241670
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06/10/2007 03:44 AM

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OP, great question:)

To me the "truth" is Jesus Himself, for He personifies everything that is good and right and true. He is the very essence of all that God encompasses and represents. To me, "truth" here defines all that is rightous, holy and good. It is what we can knowingly put our faith in, infact, what we can base our very existance on.

The lie, is the exact opposite and seeks to discredit the complete and total rightousness of truth. It is the antithesis or "anti-christ" if you will, of the very essence of God and all He stands for and desires for us to emulate.

jmho.
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 03:44 AM
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Hello there H2o! How beautifully said! Amen



Greetings dear fellow soldier of Jesus, our King, and our supreme commander.

The King of Kings, is our chief, top leader, as it is written, All power was given unto him, by Our FATHER. who is in Him, and also us, if we obey His commands. To the point, of full faith, as did Gideon, and all the other servants, as well as all the prophets, including Jonah, and more importantly, the Apostles.

So, this truth, we seek, is not given, to everyone, and it would seem, that even those who seek it, get it in steps, as each of us are able to receive it.

The people who deny the power of GOD, as it is also written, are who I speak of, when I say, that NOT everyone, can gain the truth.

As you know, there is the milk of the Word, and the Meat of the Word.

But there are also lessons and knowledge in between the milk, and the meat.

But wait, there is more much more !

After you receive the Meat of the Word, and embrace it, you will find the there is roughage and even strong meat.

This can not be obtained all at once !

There are 1st stage Christians, and even 4th stage Christians.

A 1st stage, or level, Christian, will puke on the strong meat of the Word, so we must learn in steps, as each of us are prepared.

I could and would love to explain, some of the strong meat, that I know about, as I myself walk up that path, that is laden with stumbling blocks, but you will have to take you're own walk, with The Holy Spirit. The thing to remember, is when you stumble, you just get right back up, and continue on towards the straight gate. It may take some people longer, to get there, but keep thy faith Strong, and be loyal to our KING JESUS, and nothing can stop you !

Love H2O
 Quoting: H2O 249596
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 03:45 AM
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Greetings dear fellow soldier of Jesus, our King, and our supreme commander.

The King of Kings, is our chief, top leader, as it is written, All power was given unto him, by Our FATHER. who is in Him, and also us, if we obey His commands. To the point, of full faith, as did Gideon, and all the other servants, as well as all the prophets, including Jonah, and more importantly, the Apostles.

So, this truth, we seek, is not given, to everyone, and it would seem, that even those who seek it, get it in steps, as each of us are able to receive it.

The people who deny the power of GOD, as it is also written, are who I speak of, when I say, that NOT everyone, can gain the truth.

As you know, there is the milk of the Word, and the Meat of the Word.

But there are also lessons and knowledge in between the milk, and the meat.

But wait, there is more much more !

After you receive the Meat of the Word, and embrace it, you will find the there is roughage and even strong meat.

This can not be obtained all at once !

There are 1st stage Christians, and even 4th stage Christians.

A 1st stage, or level, Christian, will puke on the strong meat of the Word, so we must learn in steps, as each of us are prepared.

I could and would love to explain, some of the strong meat, that I know about, as I myself walk up that path, that is laden with stumbling blocks, but you will have to take you're own walk, with The Holy Spirit. The thing to remember, is when you stumble, you just get right back up, and continue on towards the straight gate. It may take some people longer, to get there, but keep thy faith Strong, and be loyal to our KING JESUS, and nothing can stop you !

Love H2O
 Quoting: H2O 249596


I would be interested in hearing your thoughts more indepth regarding what you have said.

I have my own personal proverb I also use for wisdom sakes


'chew on the meat, and spit out the bones'
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Xare

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06/10/2007 03:46 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
The Fountain

Check out this trailer:

[link to thefountainmovie.warnerbros.com]

And,

These are the specific references to the Tree of Life in the Bible:

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.

Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but [when] the desire cometh, [it is] a tree of life.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 03:54 AM
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***********************************************************​I interpret that a little differently. I could again quote using both versions, but it would take me awhile, and time I don't have right now, to type or copy from an on-line source.. I'm getting ready to get into the kitchen to start preparing to cook five pounds-worth of hamburgers
at 4:00am, LOL. Hubby * I keep some odd hours..

If you have time, how about checking out just that particular verse with some other bibles on line, unless you have these, at home:
KJV, and The Living Bible.
I appreciate that I can verify The LB with the KJV. Both of mine, I understand this to mean, for all time, until Christ returns. Which is very soon.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058


i know we interpret them differently, we have to because in your timeframe you are awaiting the return of Christ, or te second coming as many refer to the event by.

But I see Christ as having already returned, and having appeared a second time, so because I am in what is called the thousand year reign time frame and you are in the last days time frame we will understand scripture quite differently when referring to prophetic events written in the word.

HEBREWS 9:28

“…and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”

This appearance of Christ was “unto salvation.” Christ was to bring the possibility of salvation with him when he came. Without the presence of Christ, there is no salvation. If Christ has not yet appeared to us today, then we are still waiting to receive the salvation he brings!

This passage is the only place in the Bible where the word “second” is used in reference to an appearing of Christ, but let us note what that phrasing logically implies. He could only appear a second time to those who had witnessed a first time. It was a second “coming” to those apostles and disciples who had been in his presence and were looking for him to return to them.

This passage does not say “unto the whole world shall he appear.” It says “unto those who look for him.” In John 14:19, Christ told his disciples:

“Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me. Because I live, ye shall live also.”

After Jesus was killed and buried, the world never saw him again, but his disciples and apostles did. He appeared to them numerous times before the ascension and then came back to them spiritually on the day of Pentecost to dwell in them. This coming of Christ to the waiting Christians is, of course, an ongoing or continuing coming. That is, he will spiritually appear to a new Christian today and any day from now on, forever. This is why it is not out of place for the Hebrews author to write this at some time after the day of Pentecost.

When we try to place this appearance of Christ in a yet future “end of the world” setting, we misunderstand the use of that phrase by the writers of the scriptures. We naturally tend to envision a modern, scientific idea of an end to the physical universe rather than the restricted symbolic meaning that was intended. In verse 26 preceding our study passage, the author of Hebrews states:

“For then must he [Christ] often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
(Hebrews 9:26)

The “sacrifice of himself” was, of course, the crucifixion, and within that generation (“now…, in the end of the world”) the world would end! What world was it? It was the old Jewish world or world of people under the old Law of Moses which Christ came to fulfill. As we noted earlier, the NIV and other translations correctly render the phrase “end of the world” as “end of the ages.” It was the end of the ages of the Law and the prophets and the beginning of a new age and the Law of Christ — the law of righteousness, love, and forgiveness.

2 TIMOTHY 1:10

“[This grace] has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”
[NIV]

This appearing of Christ does not refer to his life as a physical man. It obviously cannot refer to a far future coming either, for it is through this appearing that grace – the new covenant in action for mankind – was revealed and brought into power. Christ, in this appearance, is a Christ who has already accomplished the destruction of death, and has instituted immortal life for the believers. Neither of those elements were completed until after the resurrection and the ascension of Christ to the Father.

Grace was revealed through the appearing of Christ, and grace was revealed “now” – present time for Paul – thus the appearing had already occurred.

When the Church was established on the day of Pentecost, Christ appeared spiritually to the faithful who had been baptized into his name. This spiritual Christ had already destroyed the “last enemy (meaning the most important enemy – 1 Corinthians 15:25-27) and that enemy was spiritual death or separation from God the Father. This spiritual Christ had instituted his last will and testament – the inheritance of eternal life made available to believers through the gift of grace. This Christ was a present and life–giving entity to those men and women living in the Kingdom after it began on Pentecost, just as he still is today!
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 03:56 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
The Fountain

Check out this trailer:

[link to thefountainmovie.warnerbros.com]

And,

These are the specific references to the Tree of Life in the Bible:

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.

Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but [when] the desire cometh, [it is] a tree of life.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
 Quoting: Xare


I saw that movie a couple of nights ago, it was more of a buddhist theory than Christian, even though they used scripture to try and set the plot by.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 03:58 AM
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Challenging the Christians on this board
Quote

I have spent almost three years frequenting this forum, I have had many debates, mostly with fellow christians in regard to faith and beliefs and what is the true doctrine of Christ. I have been proven wrong many times in my personal theology but came to understand and was able to repent and acknowledge i was wrong, because of my foundation of truth in Christ. In everything I debate with others I always place everything on my foundation of truth.
truth has become almost a buzzword it seems, and I wonder how other christians consider what they debate as true or not. scripture can be interpreted so many different ways it seems, and I notice that we always interpret scripture according to how we understand our knowledge of truth.

[Jesus said that he was the way the truth and the life...He also said that we would know the truth and the truth would set us free.][In contrast to truth, there is also the lie. Satan/devil is called dthe father of the lie and all lies.]




Friend of God Quoted:
My question, or challenge to those who are christians and who proclaim to know Christ is this...
What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to be, and that we would also know that would set us free?
and on the flip side



What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

Friend of God, you may recieve many explanations to this question, and they will all be in line with the Word. This doesn't mean any of the answers are being "interpreted" incorrectly.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 03:58 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
man you guys are waaaaayyyyyy brainwashed...
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 04:05 AM
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<i know we interpret them differently, we have to because in your timeframe you are awaiting the return of Christ, or te second coming as many refer to the event by.

But I see Christ as having already returned, and having appeared a second time, so because I am in what is called the thousand year reign time frame and you are in the last days time frame we will understand scripture quite differently when referring to prophetic events written in the word.>


Friend, LOL. I NEVER said I don't believe Jesus IS here, today. hf
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HEBREWS 9:28
“…and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”

This appearance of Christ was “unto salvation.” Christ was to bring the possibility of salvation with him when he came. Without the presence of Christ, there is no salvation. If Christ has not yet appeared to us today, then we are still waiting to receive the salvation he brings!

This passage is the only place in the Bible where the word “second” is used in reference to an appearing of Christ, but let us note what that phrasing logically implies. He could only appear a second time to those who had witnessed a first time. It was a second “coming” to those apostles and disciples who had been in his presence and were looking for him to return to them.

This passage does not say “unto the whole world shall he appear.” It says “unto those who look for him.” In John 14:19, Christ told his disciples:

“Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me. Because I live, ye shall live also.”

After Jesus was killed and buried, the world never saw him again, but his disciples and apostles did. He appeared to them numerous times before the ascension and then came back to them spiritually on the day of Pentecost to dwell in them. This coming of Christ to the waiting Christians is, of course, an ongoing or continuing coming. That is, he will spiritually appear to a new Christian today and any day from now on, forever. This is why it is not out of place for the Hebrews author to write this at some time after the day of Pentecost.

When we try to place this appearance of Christ in a yet future “end of the world” setting, we misunderstand the use of that phrase by the writers of the scriptures. We naturally tend to envision a modern, scientific idea of an end to the physical universe rather than the restricted symbolic meaning that was intended. In verse 26 preceding our study passage, the author of Hebrews states:

“For then must he [Christ] often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
(Hebrews 9:26)

The “sacrifice of himself” was, of course, the crucifixion, and within that generation (“now…, in the end of the world”) the world would end! What world was it? It was the old Jewish world or world of people under the old Law of Moses which Christ came to fulfill. As we noted earlier, the NIV and other translations correctly render the phrase “end of the world” as “end of the ages.” It was the end of the ages of the Law and the prophets and the beginning of a new age and the Law of Christ — the law of righteousness, love, and forgiveness.

2 TIMOTHY 1:10

“[This grace] has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”
[NIV]

This appearing of Christ does not refer to his life as a physical man. It obviously cannot refer to a far future coming either, for it is through this appearing that grace – the new covenant in action for mankind – was revealed and brought into power. Christ, in this appearance, is a Christ who has already accomplished the destruction of death, and has instituted immortal life for the believers. Neither of those elements were completed until after the resurrection and the ascension of Christ to the Father.

Grace was revealed through the appearing of Christ, and grace was revealed “now” – present time for Paul – thus the appearing had already occurred.

When the Church was established on the day of Pentecost, Christ appeared spiritually to the faithful who had been baptized into his name. This spiritual Christ had already destroyed the “last enemy (meaning the most important enemy – 1 Corinthians 15:25-27) and that enemy was spiritual death or separation from God the Father. This spiritual Christ had instituted his last will and testament – the inheritance of eternal life made available to believers through the gift of grace. This Christ was a present and life–giving entity to those men and women living in the Kingdom after it began on Pentecost, just as he still is today!
 Quoting: friendofGod
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 04:08 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
man you guys are waaaaayyyyyy brainwashed...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 248735



Hi there also, ac 248735, and welcome!
Why do you say 'you guys' are brainwashed? HuH? hf
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 04:11 AM
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OP, great question:)

To me the "truth" is Jesus Himself, for He personifies everything that is good and right and true. He is the very essence of all that God encompasses and represents. To me, "truth" here defines all that is rightous, holy and good. It is what we can knowingly put our faith in, infact, what we can base our very existance on.

The lie, is the exact opposite and seeks to discredit the complete and total rightousness of truth. It is the antithesis or "anti-christ" if you will, of the very essence of God and all He stands for and desires for us to emulate.

jmho.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Lady wolf

i think your opinion is quite accurate, but I was hoping to go even deeper into the nature of Christ regarding the truth He personified. Jesus was truth we both agree, but how was He truth? We could say truth is also love, so perhaps it would be easier to describe how the love of God was displayed in Christ and in this display we will see truth manifested as well.

In a nutshell my understanding is that truth/love is self denial or self sacrifice. Where the lie is self glorification or self seeking. When Eve believed the lie a selfish desire was birthed in her, and it was the desire to make her wise, which is in effect the desire to glorify herself with knowledge. It was all about what Eve would get and nobody else was taken into her regard. In the same way Lucifer manifested this same self glorifying desire when he sought to ascend above the stars of God...His entire motive was 'I will'.


Jesus on the other hand defied this entire self glorifying philosophy or lie fathered by satan...Jesus laid down His life and had it put to death of His own accord, no one took His life from Him and that is why the father authorized Him with this command...that He could place His life down and take it up again. When Christ gave Himself to be crucified, he dified the power of th darkness, which was the root of the lie of self glorification.

many come on here and say Christ was murdered, and that statment in itself is an antichrist remark. Because if Christ was murdered against His will then the powers of the lie have not been defeated.

Just some thoughts
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
H2O
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06/10/2007 04:13 AM
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case in point, as requested.

Here is some strong meat, that is not understood, by those 3rd level Christians, in full.

ISA 10

16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. 17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; 18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. 19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them. 20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.



22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. 23 For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land. 24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. 25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. 26 And the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt. 27 And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.

To gain understanding, on this scripture it is necisarry to read all of the story of Gideon, and the Exodus story, and this Chapter od ISA, 10 through 12. I all of this, it is cross linked by the greater wisdom, of GOD's words, and you must know, "WHO?", Israel the people are !

The day is soon to come, that the new Gideon soldiers, will continue to anoint, with the oil, all the towers of Baal, the oil for anointing is a spiritual weapon, which is from God's armory, and there are other weapons, as well. None of these weapons, are of the flesh. Like a Rifle or a sword.
I would love to give you a link to more, and to a true Watchman, but the web site is banned here at GLP.

The point is, without the lessons, and understanding, gained in Stages 1,2,3, as a Christian, the battle of the last days, when the Flame JESUS, who gives His light, too and on to the soldiers ( his ), as described in Isaiah chapters 10, 11, and 12, the understanding, as yet for many, is just not received. But there are a few who do get it, and I pray that many of you will.

The battle that destroys, is the scripture being fulfilled here below, may help in the understanding, to which I speak.

Romans 16
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 04:16 AM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
FoG:
What if you accept Christ as your Savior and continue to sin?

Mama:
(Christ Jesus was crucified for who He was, who who is today. What He is doing now, LOL. Preparing for a battle. The battle is with the Evil one, and all who followed him, and all who worship him. The question to ask yourself, might be, who do you worship?

Xare:
When he returns, the first thing he going to do is wage war against those who try to kill him at his return. (at Migeddo) You can read this in Revelation. Then the antichrist will thrown into the lake of fire.


Mama:
~ Migeddo ~ have to say, I like that. May I use it also?

Xare:
(Har means hill / mountain)
Megiddo, Mt. Megiddo, Har Megiddo, Har-Megeddon, Harmagedon, ARMAGEDON !!

Megiddo is the first BATTLEFIELD.
Will it be the last as well ?
 Quoting: Xare

***********************************************************
Xare: Will it be the last as well?


mama: Why do you ask that?
H2O
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06/10/2007 04:20 AM
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I am sorry but I must go to sleepy now,, May GOD be with those that are HIS, Good night Brothers and sisters.


Pray without Ceasing, that is how you hear the Holy spirit, and talk to Father. Give reverence to Him as he deserves, as you speak and as you work.

I also thank all of you !

Some of you are sons of the God of Israel, remember who you represent.
friendofGod  (OP)

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06/10/2007 04:42 AM
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How are those burgers coming along mama,


would you be interested in reading a book on prophecies fulfilled?
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 06:58 AM
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I have spent almost three years frequenting this forum, I have had many debates, mostly with fellow christians in regard to faith and beliefs and what is the true doctrine of Christ. I have been proven wrong many times in my personal theology but came to understand and was able to repent and acknowledge i was wrong, because of my foundation of truth in Christ. In everything I debate with others I always place everything on my foundation of truth.

truth has become almost a buzzword it seems, and I wonder how other christians consider what they debate as true or not. scripture can be interpreted so many different ways it seems, and I notice that we always interpret scripture according to how we understand our knowledge of truth.

Jesus said that he was the way the truth and the life...He also said that we would know the truth and the truth would set us free.

In contrast to truth, there is also the lie. Satan/devil is called dthe father of the lie and all lies.

John says to those who are believers in 1 John 2

""20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.""

My question, or challenge to those who are christians and who proclaim to know Christ is this....

What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to be, and that we would also know that would set us free?

and on the flip side


What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

bear in mind that the 'truth' and the 'lie' will be in contrast to each other, and at opposite ends of the spectrum.
 Quoting: friendofGod

What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to beand that we would also know that would set us free?

During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,

"I am." (Mark 14:60-62)
"Yes, it is as you say." (Matt. 26: 63-65)
"You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:67-70)

and that we would also know that would set us free?

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36

What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Isaiah 14:12-14
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/10/2007 02:53 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to beand that we would also know that would set us free?

During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,

"I am." (Mark 14:60-62)
"Yes, it is as you say." (Matt. 26: 63-65)
"You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:67-70)

and that we would also know that would set us free?

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 239537


So in knowing that Jesus is the Christ is possessing knowledge of the truth that will set us free.

What does it mean to be the Christ?

What does this set us free from?
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:54 PM
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the torah is not truth
it tells us of truth
the messiah, Jesus Christ
it's like a signpost
pointing to Christ


hUh?? 'splain that, please?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 160058

Jesus is truth embodied
written words only point to Him
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2007 02:55 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
And the Truth is Love
/quote]

So if the truth is love...and I am agreeing fully with you on this because God is Truth and God is love...then by contrast would you agree the lie must be the opposite which is hate?
 Quoting: friendofGod

yes, haters lie and live a lie





GLP