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Challenging the Christians on this board

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247199
United States
06/10/2007 04:52 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
all i am saying is this:
the fear that evil spirits feed to people is not based in reality


Okay, I see what you're saying. So, you believe that there is only one reality? Thats fine with me, in a small world I think we'd get along just fine, but I hold the belief that the reality we are in now is simply one of many many realities. And to be honest I don't see any way of proving either side. I guess we're in the same book just different pages.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 228268

there is only one reality
what is real
everything else is one form of illusion or delusion
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247199
United States
06/10/2007 04:54 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
but, you said earlier that we had to seek the Holy Spirit to know if our scruples were reality, did you not?


I think that was someone else.....I haven't touched on the reality component.

did you say that our conscience is the Holy Spirit?
is the Holy Spirit reality?
and do our consciences sometimes condemn us for things which are not sin?


Our conscience is the Holy Spirit speaking to us. Reality is what we perceive so yes it is reality. I don't think our conscience condemns us of things that are not sin, but we condemn ourselves because there is a constant clash between our existential societal survival mechanisms and the truth in our heart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375

it says in scripture that our hearts condemn us
but, God is greater than our hearts

i have known people whose conscience told them that eating chocolate was a sin
was this truth?
no, it was not
but, they had a scruple about it

we must have the Holy Spirit to lead us by love
otherwise we will be led by fear
and i am pretty sure that the conscience leads by fear most times
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 240375
Canada
06/10/2007 04:55 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
earlier you said you can't be forgiven for resisting your conscience, what you called HOly Spirit
but, Paul was forgiven
and Jesus appeared to him
while he was still resisting the Holy Spirit
so, how can you say he wasn't forgiven
for resisting the Holy Spirit?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199


At the end of his days when he was at the gates he was obviously not blaspheming the spirit. This is a fundamental tenet of Christ, (e.g. those who worked all day will receive the same reward as those who worked the last hour).

The truth is glorified as always. Some people though like to dwell in the darkness for a while playing the societal game they think their winning.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 240375
Canada
06/10/2007 04:59 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
but, you said earlier that we had to seek the Holy Spirit to know if our scruples were reality, did you not?


it says in scripture that our hearts condemn us
but, God is greater than our hearts

i have known people whose conscience told them that eating chocolate was a sin
was this truth?
no, it was not
but, they had a scruple about it

we must have the Holy Spirit to lead us by love
otherwise we will be led by fear
and i am pretty sure that the conscience leads by fear most times
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199


Well, I guess here is where we part ways. The homeless person has nothing left but the voice speaking to his heart and the consolation it brings.

Intellectual, head-based arguments refuting the existense of the conscience such as ridiculising it (see amalie nothombe novels) are the last attempt at tearing down our link to God and the true right and wrong
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247199
United States
06/10/2007 05:27 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
earlier you said you can't be forgiven for resisting your conscience, what you called HOly Spirit
but, Paul was forgiven
and Jesus appeared to him
while he was still resisting the Holy Spirit
so, how can you say he wasn't forgiven
for resisting the Holy Spirit?


At the end of his days when he was at the gates he was obviously not blaspheming the spirit. This is a fundamental tenet of Christ, (e.g. those who worked all day will receive the same reward as those who worked the last hour).

The truth is glorified as always. Some people though like to dwell in the darkness for a while playing the societal game they think their winning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375

well, at least now you know that you can be forgiven for resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247199
United States
06/10/2007 05:27 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
but, you said earlier that we had to seek the Holy Spirit to know if our scruples were reality, did you not?


it says in scripture that our hearts condemn us
but, God is greater than our hearts

i have known people whose conscience told them that eating chocolate was a sin
was this truth?
no, it was not
but, they had a scruple about it

we must have the Holy Spirit to lead us by love
otherwise we will be led by fear
and i am pretty sure that the conscience leads by fear most times


Well, I guess here is where we part ways. The homeless person has nothing left but the voice speaking to his heart and the consolation it brings.

Intellectual, head-based arguments refuting the existense of the conscience such as ridiculising it (see amalie nothombe novels) are the last attempt at tearing down our link to God and the true right and wrong
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375

our free will enables us to let our conscience be educated by the Holy Spirit through our own spirit
i am not demeaning anyone
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 160293
Canada
06/10/2007 05:29 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
Stupid christians. The serpent in the garden told the truth. 'God' lied.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 228268
United States
06/10/2007 05:29 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
there is only one reality
what is real
everything else is one form of illusion or delusion
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199


You see, I would say that the "one" reality that you are referring to is really just the "unknown" or "infinity".

When I say reality, I mean more with respect to time. I believe time governs a reality, and that a reality is born or created from the "unknown" or "infinity" or "god" etc...

But to make statements regarding the essence of the "unknown" or "infinity" cannot be taken seriously unless of course you have seen "infinity" or have been to it. Have you?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 186930
Canada
06/10/2007 06:52 PM
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Re: Challenging the Christians on this board
During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,

"I am." (Mark 14:60-62)
"Yes, it is as you say." (Matt. 26: 63-65)
"You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:67-70)

and that we would also know that would set us free?

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36

What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning?

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Isaiah 14:12-14
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 239537


I think the scriptures shared here best give the foundational theology that gives insight into understanding what the truth is and what the lie is.

Knowing that Jesus is indeed the Christ that saves us from sin and gives us complete and perfect righteousness is the Truth that sets us free from judgment.

Adam never came under judgment until he disobeyed and became filled with the knowledge of good and evil. Judgment produces the fruit of guilt, shame and wrath. without having this knowledge of good and evil it was impossible for Adam to experience the death brought on him by judgment. In the same way if Jesus had not nailed the law to the cross, even the very letter of law, then judgment would still be in effect on mankind and there would be no freedom from the fruit that results from it. It is God's purpose in sending christ to free us from judgment and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. the law was powerless to accomplish the removal of judgment, because the law is based on judgment. the knowledge of good and evil could never free us from judgment, but keep us in slavery to it. being free from judgment is the only way that righteousness can be worked in us. The tree of knowledge must be completely uprooted from the spiritual life of mankind in order that the tree of life could be offered to us. There is no companionship between these two trees whatsoever. One brings death, and the other brings life. The tree of life is the fulness of truth/love and life. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the fulness of judgment/sin and death. Jesus came to lay the axe to the root of the judgment tree. Only by truly believing that jesus is the Christ and Savior will we be free from judgment.

The seed of judgment has been passed from Adam to all of mankind. every tree bears fruit according to its own seed. Only by the spiritual birth of God's seed within us are we removed from judgment.

Judgment is evil according to the knowledge that is passed along into man via adam's seed. It creates nothing but self seeking its own form of righteousness. only grace has the ability to free us from this evil lie of seeking to be self glorified.

Like the folowing verses which were shared in the quote regarding Lucifer's fall from heaven...what was ruling Lucifer's heart was the desire to become self glorified by his own willful actions. In every rebellious lie there is the same motive, and that is 'I WILL'. The standard religious argument is that man is then free to do evil with no consequence, but in reality of that is in the heart then it is irreleavant whether the action is actually carried out or not.

knowing the Truth regarding who Jesus Christ is will work grace and love within the human spirit. we love Him because we understand that He first loved us. Only by faith in Christ is it possible to please God..anything else is self seeking and at enmity with the truth.





GLP