Challenging the Christians on this board | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 03:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 240375 Canada 06/10/2007 03:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Listen to your heart and you'll know the truth. It's your conscience telling you not to do something that is wrong. It is the resonance you feel in your heart when you know something is true and the weird feeling you get when you know someone is dealing you BS. It is the appreciation of beauty and the aversion to ugliness. All felt in the heart. Love is the continuous expression of truth (which is felt at discreet moments) and is thus the culmination of our lives on this plane. When we pass, we will be engulfed by truth and love (thus God is truth and love). The lie is believing that we can decide what is right or wrong, good or bad without listening to our heart. All bad and the fall of man comes from this lie. We have the free will to listen to our conscience and to discern the truth with our hearts or not to. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 03:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Listen to your heart and you'll know the truth. It's your conscience telling you not to do something that is wrong. It is the resonance you feel in your heart when you know something is true and the weird feeling you get when you know someone is dealing you BS. It is the appreciation of beauty and the aversion to ugliness. All felt in the heart. Love is the continuous expression of truth (which is felt at discreet moments) and is thus the culmination of our lives on this plane. When we pass, we will be engulfed by truth and love (thus God is truth and love). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375The lie is believing that we can decide what is right or wrong, good or bad without listening to our heart. All bad and the fall of man comes from this lie. We have the free will to listen to our conscience and to discern the truth with our hearts or not to. So would you agree that your perception of what truth is, is dependant upon man possessing the knowledge of good and evil. Or in other words the knowledge of good and evil is how we obtain truth? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Listen to your heart and you'll know the truth. It's your conscience telling you not to do something that is wrong. It is the resonance you feel in your heart when you know something is true and the weird feeling you get when you know someone is dealing you BS. It is the appreciation of beauty and the aversion to ugliness. All felt in the heart. Love is the continuous expression of truth (which is felt at discreet moments) and is thus the culmination of our lives on this plane. When we pass, we will be engulfed by truth and love (thus God is truth and love). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930The lie is believing that we can decide what is right or wrong, good or bad without listening to our heart. All bad and the fall of man comes from this lie. We have the free will to listen to our conscience and to discern the truth with our hearts or not to. So would you agree that your perception of what truth is, is dependant upon man possessing the knowledge of good and evil. Or in other words the knowledge of good and evil is how we obtain truth? no good and evil is not truth truth is reality and evil is unreality |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 240375 Canada 06/10/2007 03:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Listen to your heart and you'll know the truth. It's your conscience telling you not to do something that is wrong. It is the resonance you feel in your heart when you know something is true and the weird feeling you get when you know someone is dealing you BS. It is the appreciation of beauty and the aversion to ugliness. All felt in the heart. Love is the continuous expression of truth (which is felt at discreet moments) and is thus the culmination of our lives on this plane. When we pass, we will be engulfed by truth and love (thus God is truth and love). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930The lie is believing that we can decide what is right or wrong, good or bad without listening to our heart. All bad and the fall of man comes from this lie. We have the free will to listen to our conscience and to discern the truth with our hearts or not to. So would you agree that your perception of what truth is, is dependant upon man possessing the knowledge of good and evil. Or in other words the knowledge of good and evil is how we obtain truth? No, we could have happily lived engulfed in truth knowing that God was great etc. However Satan was jealous that God created us in his image and together with some other jealous angels went against the will of God to create his own kingdom in the material plane. By choosing to think that we can decide what is right or wrong independent of God (conscience, discernment of truth through the heart), we are following the lie initially used to entice us. If a person goes through life listening to and following their heart they know what truth is. Unfortunately they would probably end up homeless or worse. It was entirely unnecessary that we had to have the knowledge of good and evil, but it is the central theme of our efforts toward salvation through the death of Christ (who always followed the will of his father). |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 228268 United States 06/10/2007 03:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What exactly is the 'truth' that Jesus claimed to be, and that we would also know that would set us free? Quoting: friendofGodand on the flip side What is the 'lie' that satan/devil fathered from the beginning? bear in mind that the 'truth' and the 'lie' will be in contrast to each other, and at opposite ends of the spectrum. The truth is that satan, although the word does not accurately encompass the whole of its meaning, is REAL. The lie would be that satan is not real. Now, in who's favor do you think it would be to have the MASSES of people believe that satan, or variations of, is not real? The fact of the matter is that evil is here on earth as we speak, and for the most part it is in control. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how negatively earth is being effected right now, but I wouldn't suggest asking the mainstream media either. Again, it all comes down to duality. If you chose to believe that the soul does not have a dual nature, and is completely out of order with everything else upon this earth, then that is your choice. The message of God is that the soul does in fact have a dual nature and it is up to you to choose which side it favors. Does it not feel good, for some people, if they offer a hand to someone who is in desperate need? Yet, does it not feel good, again to some people, to verbally put someone down whenever an opportunity arises? Or physically for that matter. This is the dual nature of the soul, the source of all pleasure, or one's desire. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 240375 Canada 06/10/2007 03:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we don't make effort to salvation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199it is a free gift that we receive i agree that knowing evil was not necessary I believe that Christ will judge us based on our acceptance or rejection of truth through the heart. As he said, "you can blaspheme the father and the son and be forgiven, but those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (conscience) will not be forgiven". I don't think it is a free pass, but certainly it is a gift. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 03:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Listen to your heart and you'll know the truth. It's your conscience telling you not to do something that is wrong. It is the resonance you feel in your heart when you know something is true and the weird feeling you get when you know someone is dealing you BS. It is the appreciation of beauty and the aversion to ugliness. All felt in the heart. Love is the continuous expression of truth (which is felt at discreet moments) and is thus the culmination of our lives on this plane. When we pass, we will be engulfed by truth and love (thus God is truth and love). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375The lie is believing that we can decide what is right or wrong, good or bad without listening to our heart. All bad and the fall of man comes from this lie. We have the free will to listen to our conscience and to discern the truth with our hearts or not to. So would you agree that your perception of what truth is, is dependant upon man possessing the knowledge of good and evil. Or in other words the knowledge of good and evil is how we obtain truth? No, we could have happily lived engulfed in truth knowing that God was great etc. However Satan was jealous that God created us in his image and together with some other jealous angels went against the will of God to create his own kingdom in the material plane. By choosing to think that we can decide what is right or wrong independent of God (conscience, discernment of truth through the heart), we are following the lie initially used to entice us. If a person goes through life listening to and following their heart they know what truth is. Unfortunately they would probably end up homeless or worse. It was entirely unnecessary that we had to have the knowledge of good and evil, but it is the central theme of our efforts toward salvation through the death of Christ (who always followed the will of his father). So then are you saying that even though death came through the knowledge of good and evil, and God was insistant that man not partake in it...God now uses this same measure to bring life to mankind? because I would have to disagree the curse that is on that tree is ever upon that tree, and it is the tree of life that must be partaken of in order for life to come. God said that the tree of life must be sheltered from Adam and Eve because if they ate from it after they disobeyed then they would obtain life. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we don't make effort to salvation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375it is a free gift that we receive i agree that knowing evil was not necessary I believe that Christ will judge us based on our acceptance or rejection of truth through the heart. As he said, "you can blaspheme the father and the son and be forgiven, but those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (conscience) will not be forgiven". I don't think it is a free pass, but certainly it is a gift. our conscience is not the HOly Spirit we have all gone against our own conscience because that is what sin is you need to refine your teaching a little bit |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 03:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 04:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | because they were perfectly free Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199Can God sin? sin is defined by what God would not do so, how could God sin? So God cannot sin, but not because He is perfect, but because he makes up the rules?? The scriptures say God does not change, so therefore He has an established truth that has no darkness at all. God cannot sin. But yet man who you say was made perfect in His image can sin... How? If God is not free to sin and man is made perfect in His image then wouldn't it stand to reason that man could also not sin?? Or is there something more to what is said of man being made in the image of God that is overlooked? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 240375 Canada 06/10/2007 04:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So then are you saying that even though death came through the knowledge of good and evil, and God was insistant that man not partake in it...God now uses this same measure to bring life to mankind? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930because I would have to disagree the curse that is on that tree is ever upon that tree, and it is the tree of life that must be partaken of in order for life to come. God said that the tree of life must be sheltered from Adam and Eve because if they ate from it after they disobeyed then they would obtain life. He so loved us that he gave his only begotten son to die for us. The mystery of salvation is that even though Satan can point out our sins when we stand in judgement and say we don't deserve to dwell with God, the fact that Christ says let him/her pass into the kingdom of heaven is good enough to override Satan's claim. It's the universal laws of justice, because Christ's innocent blood was shed by Satan, the mere fact that he says it's ok for us to get to heaven, allows sinful man to dwell with God. Satan has no say on what Christ decides. This is the mystery of salvation that the world is in the process of trying to shoot down. |
redsavage User ID: 174926 Canada 06/10/2007 04:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we have a conscience even when our spirit is inactive this is why we can sin because innately we know when we are sinned against so, if we do these things to others our own conscience convicts us the Holy Spirit works by animating our own spirit and bringing life to our inner man if we blaspheme the spirit of God and call it evil that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit convicts us that we are not connected to God and need to be cleansed and forgiven and we say that we don't need to be cleansed and forgiven we cannot receive the free gift of forgiveness so, in order to be forgiven we must yield to the conviction of the Holy Spirit repent, and ask God to forgive and cleanse us |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 240375 Canada 06/10/2007 04:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we don't make effort to salvation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199it is a free gift that we receive i agree that knowing evil was not necessary I believe that Christ will judge us based on our acceptance or rejection of truth through the heart. As he said, "you can blaspheme the father and the son and be forgiven, but those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (conscience) will not be forgiven". I don't think it is a free pass, but certainly it is a gift. our conscience is not the HOly Spirit we have all gone against our own conscience because that is what sin is you need to refine your teaching a little bit Our conscience is the Holy Spirit speaking to us. I'm sorry that is what I believe |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | because they were perfectly free Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930Can God sin? sin is defined by what God would not do so, how could God sin? So God cannot sin, but not because He is perfect, but because he makes up the rules?? The scriptures say God does not change, so therefore He has an established truth that has no darkness at all. God cannot sin. But yet man who you say was made perfect in His image can sin... How? If God is not free to sin and man is made perfect in His image then wouldn't it stand to reason that man could also not sin?? Or is there something more to what is said of man being made in the image of God that is overlooked? God doesn't make up anything His being is reality and anything He wouldn't do is unreality |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we don't make effort to salvation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375it is a free gift that we receive i agree that knowing evil was not necessary I believe that Christ will judge us based on our acceptance or rejection of truth through the heart. As he said, "you can blaspheme the father and the son and be forgiven, but those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (conscience) will not be forgiven". I don't think it is a free pass, but certainly it is a gift. our conscience is not the HOly Spirit we have all gone against our own conscience because that is what sin is you need to refine your teaching a little bit Our conscience is the Holy Spirit speaking to us. I'm sorry that is what I believe some people have a "conscience" full of scruples which did not originate with God |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 04:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | because they were perfectly free Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199Can God sin? sin is defined by what God would not do so, how could God sin? So God cannot sin, but not because He is perfect, but because he makes up the rules?? The scriptures say God does not change, so therefore He has an established truth that has no darkness at all. God cannot sin. But yet man who you say was made perfect in His image can sin... How? If God is not free to sin and man is made perfect in His image then wouldn't it stand to reason that man could also not sin?? Or is there something more to what is said of man being made in the image of God that is overlooked? God doesn't make up anything His being is reality and anything He wouldn't do is unreality Ok here's one for you 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | when we receive the seed of God's truth we cannot sin in that area of truth we are progressively growing in the area of receiving truth it's like this if you know fire will burn you you won't put your hand in the fire if you don't know fire will burn you you will put your hand in the fire so, knowing truth makes you desire to live according to that truth if we sin that implies that in the act of that sinning we really did not know truth if we knew truth we would have lived by the truth we knew |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 240375 Canada 06/10/2007 04:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | some people have a "conscience" full of scruples which did not originate with God Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199This is why I believe atheists who follow their "conscience" but don't believe it came from God will still get to heaven. It doesn't matter where you think it came from (nor where I think it comes from), what is important is following it's dictates which are the truth. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 186930 Canada 06/10/2007 04:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we have a conscience Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247199even when our spirit is inactive this is why we can sin because innately we know when we are sinned against so, if we do these things to others our own conscience convicts us the Holy Spirit works by animating our own spirit and bringing life to our inner man if we blaspheme the spirit of God and call it evil that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit convicts us that we are not connected to God and need to be cleansed and forgiven and we say that we don't need to be cleansed and forgiven we cannot receive the free gift of forgiveness so, in order to be forgiven we must yield to the conviction of the Holy Spirit repent, and ask God to forgive and cleanse us I would fully disagree with your theology here. For starters, the Holy Spirit leads us to the Truth that Jesus is the Christ and saves us from sin. If a person is a believer then the Holy Spirit convicts them of being righteous before God and not a sinner before God. What most Christians think is the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin, is really the spirit of antichrist accusing them of sin. It is impossible for the Holy spirit to convict a believer of sin. In the same way it is impossible for God to sin. Pay close attention to who is convicted of sin in verse 9...it is only those who do not believe in Christ. John 16 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | some people have a "conscience" full of scruples which did not originate with God Quoting: Anonymous Coward 240375This is why I believe atheists who follow their "conscience" but don't believe it came from God will still get to heaven. It doesn't matter where you think it came from (nor where I think it comes from), what is important is following it's dictates which are the truth. but, some scruples are not from God and actually harm the person who has them and causes them to sin against others example: some people have a "scruple" that they can't go to a doctor, so, they dont' take their sick child to the doctor and the child suffers so, how is that "scruple" a good thing? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 247199 United States 06/10/2007 04:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | we have a conscience Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930even when our spirit is inactive this is why we can sin because innately we know when we are sinned against so, if we do these things to others our own conscience convicts us the Holy Spirit works by animating our own spirit and bringing life to our inner man if we blaspheme the spirit of God and call it evil that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit convicts us that we are not connected to God and need to be cleansed and forgiven and we say that we don't need to be cleansed and forgiven we cannot receive the free gift of forgiveness so, in order to be forgiven we must yield to the conviction of the Holy Spirit repent, and ask God to forgive and cleanse us I would fully disagree with your theology here. For starters, the Holy Spirit leads us to the Truth that Jesus is the Christ and saves us from sin. If a person is a believer then the Holy Spirit convicts them of being righteous before God and not a sinner before God. What most Christians think is the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin, is really the spirit of antichrist accusing them of sin. It is impossible for the Holy spirit to convict a believer of sin. In the same way it is impossible for God to sin. Pay close attention to who is convicted of sin in verse 9...it is only those who do not believe in Christ. John 16 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. sin harms us and righteousness brings health i don't know why you disagree with my post |