NASA Thrust Equation gets destroyed. | |
74444 User ID: 74444 United States 03/15/2019 07:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76809044 United States 03/15/2019 08:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why do people compare a vacuum tube to space.. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72810610 The hose of a cleaner is not a vacuum, there is one behind constantly created behind the filter in the grab bag.. Because vacuum is low pressure. There is low pressure in the vacuum hose. stuff (matter) makes things happen. a vacuum is the absence of all matter. (note) even outer space is one hydrogen atom per cubic meter. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72810610 United States 03/16/2019 12:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why do people compare a vacuum tube to space.. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72810610 The hose of a cleaner is not a vacuum, there is one behind constantly created behind the filter in the grab bag.. Because vacuum is low pressure. There is low pressure in the vacuum hose. Hmm Only low pressure at creation point of vacuum, that is why there is air being sucked in. Air being anywhere in a given area is not vacuum. wind is only slightly less dense than stagnant air, so you cannot test a wind tunnel for the conditions of vacuum. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77469576 Australia 03/16/2019 12:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77433193 Canada 03/16/2019 12:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why do people compare a vacuum tube to space.. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72810610 The hose of a cleaner is not a vacuum, there is one behind constantly created behind the filter in the grab bag.. Because vacuum is low pressure. There is low pressure in the vacuum hose. Hmm Only low pressure at creation point of vacuum, that is why there is air being sucked in. Air being anywhere in a given area is not vacuum. wind is only slightly less dense than stagnant air, so you cannot test a wind tunnel for the conditions of vacuum. Actually the constant movement of the vacuum fan creates a constant low pressure. Perhaps not a perfect vacuum but low pressure nonetheless. You also have to remember it is the low pressure that causes the rocket exhaust to escape. If a indestructible rocket was on the sun where external pressure was higher than the rocket chamber, the exhaust wouldn’t come out of the rocket. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77449138 Canada 03/16/2019 12:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76864035 United States 03/16/2019 01:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Remedial_Rebel User ID: 77275768 United States 03/16/2019 02:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't know what is behind the flat earth cult, but this just proves what disingenuous shills you are. It has been posted over and over how to see the ISS for yourself. [link to spotthestation.nasa.gov (secure)] But you just ignore it and keep posting the same fallacies. Last Edited by Remedial_Rebel on 03/16/2019 02:12 AM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77384446 Sweden 03/16/2019 02:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what are the dots of light going over at night, matching the sighting guides for various satellites/space stations...and can be seen from widely separated viewing sites 100 miles away at the same time (at a different angle, of course)? you can't bs orbital mechanics either... It could be plane or balloons. The night sky was sparkling with start and lights before satellites Still can’t bs math I can see ISS here in sweden when it flies over germany / poland. |
Remedial_Rebel User ID: 77275768 United States 03/16/2019 02:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what are the dots of light going over at night, matching the sighting guides for various satellites/space stations...and can be seen from widely separated viewing sites 100 miles away at the same time (at a different angle, of course)? you can't bs orbital mechanics either... It could be plane or balloons. The night sky was sparkling with start and lights before satellites Still can’t bs math I can see ISS here in sweden when it flies over germany / poland. ISS from Earth Germany , ISS observed by an amateur Telescope 9August 2015 [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] The FE shills will no doubt deny this even though than can see it for themselves. There are thousands of amateur photos of the ISS, but they are all hoaxes, right? Last Edited by Remedial_Rebel on 03/16/2019 02:54 AM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77064257 United States 03/16/2019 02:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
imakemagicfeelingsandiheal User ID: 45767411 United States 03/16/2019 03:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
CitizenPerth User ID: 77469608 Australia 03/16/2019 03:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i really don't know where you were taught rocket science.. but anyhoos... the thrust is provided by the rotund for thrust.... it is a very inefficient device.... but works.... all you are seeing at the back end? is "exhaust" It's life as we know it, but only just. [link to citizenperth.wordpress.com] sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie |
Hiram's Apprentice User ID: 45869531 United States 03/16/2019 06:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good stuff OP. Near 10 pages and no one is touching your claims. Only shills with nasa videos Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77441735 ...that's refreshing to see...down to Earth, hard hitting facts...NOT! Phone service in the middle of the Atlantic, weather satellite photos, GPS in the middle of nowhere....ICBMs. OP is running on ignorance and lack of interest in spaceflight...probable a chemtrail shill as well. Ignorance is bliss...he doesn't know anything about spaceflight, and doesn't care... Op's mother should have stopped him from eating those paint chips off the window sill when he was a child. OP is missing a VERY elementary fact of physics--- for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction aka THRUST. There does not need to be an atmosphere to push against when expanding gasses are being ejected from a nozzle. "Tempus Fugit" |
New Atlantis User ID: 66340061 United States 03/16/2019 06:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37509171 Greece 03/16/2019 07:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The definition of force is that it is equal to the change in momentum thus F=dP/dt where P=m*u (mass times velosity) and since we have change in mass and in speed we use the differentiation product rule, thus F=dP/dt=d(m*u)/dt=u*dm/dt+m*du/dt the thrust is the part of the force created by the rate of change of the mass Ft=u*dm/dt Even when substituting as per the video, the final units are as expected Kg*m/sec^2. That guy obviously is using some equation tables without actually grasping the real meaning of these (he for example used equations for a cylindrical pipe, not a more generic equation like A for area with units m^2 or V for volume with units m^3, another sign that he is not that of a knowledgeable person). He ignores conservation of momentum in a system and he is using a flawed example to prove nothing but his ignorance. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19126618 United States 03/16/2019 07:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what are the dots of light going over at night, matching the sighting guides for various satellites/space stations...and can be seen from widely separated viewing sites 100 miles away at the same time (at a different angle, of course)? you can't bs orbital mechanics either... You have such a limited mind. This is most people's problem, they can't even fathom things in their head that are outside mainstream explanations. It's as if everything Must line up with the mainstream explanations or they aren't real. We live in the twilight zone, Every one is sick slow n stupid but thinks they're healthy fast n smart. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19126618 United States 03/16/2019 07:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Not again that idiot who doesn't know what to substitute and doesn't know how to get units out of an equation (in a previous video he was including pi and constants in the units results which is totally wrong when you try to get units out of an equation). BTW "NASA thrust equation" isn't NASA's to begin with... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37509171 The definition of force is that it is equal to the change in momentum thus F=dP/dt where P=m*u (mass times velosity) and since we have change in mass and in speed we use the differentiation product rule, thus F=dP/dt=d(m*u)/dt=u*dm/dt+m*du/dt the thrust is the part of the force created by the rate of change of the mass Ft=u*dm/dt Even when substituting as per the video, the final units are as expected Kg*m/sec^2. That guy obviously is using some equation tables without actually grasping the real meaning of these (he for example used equations for a cylindrical pipe, not a more generic equation like A for area with units m^2 or V for volume with units m^3, another sign that he is not that of a knowledgeable person). He ignores conservation of momentum in a system and he is using a flawed example to prove nothing but his ignorance. You seem Perty smart. I hope you use that intelligence to help advance humanity as a whole, and don't get bought out to just work for some meaningless company as so many intelligent people do.... we need more smart people working on new fresh ideas for humanity instead of fueling the same ol system that keeps us all oppressed and keeps real advancements hidden from the masses... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77441821 Canada 03/16/2019 07:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Not again that idiot who doesn't know what to substitute and doesn't know how to get units out of an equation (in a previous video he was including pi and constants in the units results which is totally wrong when you try to get units out of an equation). BTW "NASA thrust equation" isn't NASA's to begin with... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37509171 The definition of force is that it is equal to the change in momentum thus F=dP/dt where P=m*u (mass times velosity) and since we have change in mass and in speed we use the differentiation product rule, thus F=dP/dt=d(m*u)/dt=u*dm/dt+m*du/dt the thrust is the part of the force created by the rate of change of the mass Ft=u*dm/dt Even when substituting as per the video, the final units are as expected Kg*m/sec^2. That guy obviously is using some equation tables without actually grasping the real meaning of these (he for example used equations for a cylindrical pipe, not a more generic equation like A for area with units m^2 or V for volume with units m^3, another sign that he is not that of a knowledgeable person). He ignores conservation of momentum in a system and he is using a flawed example to prove nothing but his ignorance. Would you point out the exact error? The equation is on NASA website So they promote it. I didn’t say anything about the units. The units are fine. There’s nothing wrong with the substitution. The velocity in the nozzle pipe is equal to the exit velocity. It’s simple. The conservation of momentum is conserved because the external force is pressure gradient force, not because the rocket pushes it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37509171 Greece 03/16/2019 08:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Not again that idiot who doesn't know what to substitute and doesn't know how to get units out of an equation (in a previous video he was including pi and constants in the units results which is totally wrong when you try to get units out of an equation). BTW "NASA thrust equation" isn't NASA's to begin with... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37509171 The definition of force is that it is equal to the change in momentum thus F=dP/dt where P=m*u (mass times velosity) and since we have change in mass and in speed we use the differentiation product rule, thus F=dP/dt=d(m*u)/dt=u*dm/dt+m*du/dt the thrust is the part of the force created by the rate of change of the mass Ft=u*dm/dt Even when substituting as per the video, the final units are as expected Kg*m/sec^2. That guy obviously is using some equation tables without actually grasping the real meaning of these (he for example used equations for a cylindrical pipe, not a more generic equation like A for area with units m^2 or V for volume with units m^3, another sign that he is not that of a knowledgeable person). He ignores conservation of momentum in a system and he is using a flawed example to prove nothing but his ignorance. Would you point out the exact error? The equation is on NASA website So they promote it. I didn’t say anything about the units. The units are fine. There’s nothing wrong with the substitution. The velocity in the nozzle pipe is equal to the exit velocity. It’s simple. The conservation of momentum is conserved because the external force is pressure gradient force, not because the rocket pushes it. First of all, mass change rate is dm/dt (with dot notation in the equation). He states that force equals mass flow rate. Actually we would say that the thrust force is proportional to the square of the rate of change of mass. He, by ignorance or intention, ignores the rest of the parameters. What the equation says is that the cause of the thrust force is the change of the mass of the system with respect to time. As for the rocket, the fuel is part of the mass of the system that comprises of the rocket. When the fuel combusts in the combustion chamber of the rocket, it creates high pressure and temperature and thus the produced gases try to expand (see entropy) as would one expect with the only option to do that by the nozzle. This mass that leaves was part of the mass of the rocket, unlike the air sucked from the vacuum cleaner of the "experiment" since in that case the system "vacuum cleaner and pipe" have a zero net mass change (it doesn't matter if it sucks air from a small or big hole) since whatever air is sucked in, gets out of the filter of the vacuum cleaner, thus dm/dt=0 and in accordance F_thrust=0. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72942955 United States 03/16/2019 08:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77456542 Canada 03/16/2019 08:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Not again that idiot who doesn't know what to substitute and doesn't know how to get units out of an equation (in a previous video he was including pi and constants in the units results which is totally wrong when you try to get units out of an equation). BTW "NASA thrust equation" isn't NASA's to begin with... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37509171 The definition of force is that it is equal to the change in momentum thus F=dP/dt where P=m*u (mass times velosity) and since we have change in mass and in speed we use the differentiation product rule, thus F=dP/dt=d(m*u)/dt=u*dm/dt+m*du/dt the thrust is the part of the force created by the rate of change of the mass Ft=u*dm/dt Even when substituting as per the video, the final units are as expected Kg*m/sec^2. That guy obviously is using some equation tables without actually grasping the real meaning of these (he for example used equations for a cylindrical pipe, not a more generic equation like A for area with units m^2 or V for volume with units m^3, another sign that he is not that of a knowledgeable person). He ignores conservation of momentum in a system and he is using a flawed example to prove nothing but his ignorance. Would you point out the exact error? The equation is on NASA website So they promote it. I didn’t say anything about the units. The units are fine. There’s nothing wrong with the substitution. The velocity in the nozzle pipe is equal to the exit velocity. It’s simple. The conservation of momentum is conserved because the external force is pressure gradient force, not because the rocket pushes it. First of all, mass change rate is dm/dt (with dot notation in the equation). He states that force equals mass flow rate. Actually we would say that the thrust force is proportional to the square of the rate of change of mass. He, by ignorance or intention, ignores the rest of the parameters. What the equation says is that the cause of the thrust force is the change of the mass of the system with respect to time. As for the rocket, the fuel is part of the mass of the system that comprises of the rocket. When the fuel combusts in the combustion chamber of the rocket, it creates high pressure and temperature and thus the produced gases try to expand (see entropy) as would one expect with the only option to do that by the nozzle. This mass that leaves was part of the mass of the rocket, unlike the air sucked from the vacuum cleaner of the "experiment" since in that case the system "vacuum cleaner and pipe" have a zero net mass change (it doesn't matter if it sucks air from a small or big hole) since whatever air is sucked in, gets out of the filter of the vacuum cleaner, thus dm/dt=0 and in accordance F_thrust=0. The equation startes that mass flow rate exiting a pipe causes force. Using the vacuum, you have mass flow rate exiting the pipe, but no force is observed. You have no evidence of what you say |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76354975 United States 03/16/2019 08:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37509171 Greece 03/16/2019 08:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Not again that idiot who doesn't know what to substitute and doesn't know how to get units out of an equation (in a previous video he was including pi and constants in the units results which is totally wrong when you try to get units out of an equation). BTW "NASA thrust equation" isn't NASA's to begin with... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37509171 The definition of force is that it is equal to the change in momentum thus F=dP/dt where P=m*u (mass times velosity) and since we have change in mass and in speed we use the differentiation product rule, thus F=dP/dt=d(m*u)/dt=u*dm/dt+m*du/dt the thrust is the part of the force created by the rate of change of the mass Ft=u*dm/dt Even when substituting as per the video, the final units are as expected Kg*m/sec^2. That guy obviously is using some equation tables without actually grasping the real meaning of these (he for example used equations for a cylindrical pipe, not a more generic equation like A for area with units m^2 or V for volume with units m^3, another sign that he is not that of a knowledgeable person). He ignores conservation of momentum in a system and he is using a flawed example to prove nothing but his ignorance. Would you point out the exact error? The equation is on NASA website So they promote it. I didn’t say anything about the units. The units are fine. There’s nothing wrong with the substitution. The velocity in the nozzle pipe is equal to the exit velocity. It’s simple. The conservation of momentum is conserved because the external force is pressure gradient force, not because the rocket pushes it. First of all, mass change rate is dm/dt (with dot notation in the equation). He states that force equals mass flow rate. Actually we would say that the thrust force is proportional to the square of the rate of change of mass. He, by ignorance or intention, ignores the rest of the parameters. What the equation says is that the cause of the thrust force is the change of the mass of the system with respect to time. As for the rocket, the fuel is part of the mass of the system that comprises of the rocket. When the fuel combusts in the combustion chamber of the rocket, it creates high pressure and temperature and thus the produced gases try to expand (see entropy) as would one expect with the only option to do that by the nozzle. This mass that leaves was part of the mass of the rocket, unlike the air sucked from the vacuum cleaner of the "experiment" since in that case the system "vacuum cleaner and pipe" have a zero net mass change (it doesn't matter if it sucks air from a small or big hole) since whatever air is sucked in, gets out of the filter of the vacuum cleaner, thus dm/dt=0 and in accordance F_thrust=0. The equation startes that mass flow rate exiting a pipe causes force. Using the vacuum, you have mass flow rate exiting the pipe, but no force is observed. You have no evidence of what you say When the gases are forcibly expanding, the molecules of it actually collide to the walls of the combustion chamber thus losing kinetic energy that passes to the mass of the rocket (some part of it as kinetic and some as thermal) and of course they collide with each other in a random fashion, but eventually the net flow will be out of the exhaust, thus to the macroscopic level that would be a net force in the direction opposite of the exhaust. The net gained kinetic energy (see transfer of momentum aka collision of masses with velocities) will cause an acceleration with direction going to the opposite side of the exhaust, since the mass of the combusted gas will actually leave from there, it likes it or not, there is no other way out of that high pressure. This is also why you need to actually know the speed of the gas in the exhaust, due to the thermal loses. It's not a perfect machine, there are thermal loses in every kind of system. The equation is not wrong and there IS a force (the net force exerted by the molecules to the chamber wall opposite of the exhaust). |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 03/16/2019 10:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Dr. Deplorable Astromut I can also see ISS in the "blue sky" but that doesn't mean it's not in space. It most certainly is in space, which is a fact I've verified myself. It does not follow that just because something is visible "in the blue sky" that it means it must not be in space. The moon, sun and Venus can all be seen by naked eye in broad daylight. What, did you expect the blue sky to turn black as it went into space? That only happens from the perspective of the rocket, not a ground observer watching it! ISS just a projector mounted on a plane. Wrong. ISS is fake Assertion without evidence. I have provided evidence and you have nothing to refute it. You are dismissed. |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 03/16/2019 10:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It's not a cartoon and people do believe it which is why it has way more upvotes than downvotes. You guys should really fire up those downvote bots like you usually do for my live streams. I know for a fact my footage is not fake and neither are my measurements which have shown conclusively that the space station is as high as fast and as large as NASA says it is. That rules out any plane balloon or other aerial object. |
Dr. Deplorable Astromut Senior Forum Moderator 03/16/2019 10:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There are plenty of experiments that show combustion does not work in a vacuum, even with things that have their own oxidizer. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72942955 Those talking with out researching it or trying it themselves in a vacuum chamber are just that, talk. Wrong. No I explained exactly why they are are false. Does a rocket in space push off a bullet or a metalframe? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77003244 No metal frame, no apparatus at all, just a rocket working in space: Measurements made from the video indicate that the booster is above the Karman line and in space during the boostback burn. My telescope has an altitude dial on the side which was previously recorded using a gopro during launch. From my launch viewing site, the telescope is angled up about 40 degrees above the horizon during the boostback burn. This sped-up video is zoomed in the altitude dial, apologies the resolution isn't good enough to read the numbers but you can see where the numbers are marked and they're in 10 degree increments, the video starts at launch (0 degrees) and ends at the end of the boostback burn (40 degrees): [link to drive.google.com (secure)] At launch the Falcon boosters are about 22 pixels wide in my camera: [link to drive.google.com (secure)] I'm 21.1 km from the launch site and the boosters are each 3.7 meters wide, so that corresponds to an angular size of 0.01 degrees. By the end of the boostback they're only about 3.2 pixels wide: [link to drive.google.com (secure)] Given that we know from the launch that a 3.7 meter wide booster is 22 pixels wide in the view from 21.1 km, that means a pixel size of 3.2 pixels corresponds to an angular size of about 0.00146 degrees. The range between my telescope and the booster is therefore about 145 km at that time. Given that it's about 40 degrees above the horizon, then even if we assume a flat earth the altitude above the ground of the booster was roughly 122 km. Let's be generous here and say I could be about 5 degrees off on either side of that 40 degree measurement. Even at 35 degrees above the horizon the altitude (even assuming a flat earth) would be 102 km. At 45 degrees it would of course be 145 km above the earth. So it was somewhere between about 102 - 145 km in altitude, above the Karman line and in space. My video indicates it had no trouble reversing course to come back and land near the launch site. Please show your evidence that the video indicates it was not in space. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77418720 Canada 03/16/2019 03:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77441821 Would you point out the exact error? The equation is on NASA website So they promote it. I didn’t say anything about the units. The units are fine. There’s nothing wrong with the substitution. The velocity in the nozzle pipe is equal to the exit velocity. It’s simple. The conservation of momentum is conserved because the external force is pressure gradient force, not because the rocket pushes it. First of all, mass change rate is dm/dt (with dot notation in the equation). He states that force equals mass flow rate. Actually we would say that the thrust force is proportional to the square of the rate of change of mass. He, by ignorance or intention, ignores the rest of the parameters. What the equation says is that the cause of the thrust force is the change of the mass of the system with respect to time. As for the rocket, the fuel is part of the mass of the system that comprises of the rocket. When the fuel combusts in the combustion chamber of the rocket, it creates high pressure and temperature and thus the produced gases try to expand (see entropy) as would one expect with the only option to do that by the nozzle. This mass that leaves was part of the mass of the rocket, unlike the air sucked from the vacuum cleaner of the "experiment" since in that case the system "vacuum cleaner and pipe" have a zero net mass change (it doesn't matter if it sucks air from a small or big hole) since whatever air is sucked in, gets out of the filter of the vacuum cleaner, thus dm/dt=0 and in accordance F_thrust=0. The equation startes that mass flow rate exiting a pipe causes force. Using the vacuum, you have mass flow rate exiting the pipe, but no force is observed. You have no evidence of what you say When the gases are forcibly expanding, the molecules of it actually collide to the walls of the combustion chamber thus losing kinetic energy that passes to the mass of the rocket (some part of it as kinetic and some as thermal) and of course they collide with each other in a random fashion, but eventually the net flow will be out of the exhaust, thus to the macroscopic level that would be a net force in the direction opposite of the exhaust. The net gained kinetic energy (see transfer of momentum aka collision of masses with velocities) will cause an acceleration with direction going to the opposite side of the exhaust, since the mass of the combusted gas will actually leave from there, it likes it or not, there is no other way out of that high pressure. This is also why you need to actually know the speed of the gas in the exhaust, due to the thermal loses. It's not a perfect machine, there are thermal loses in every kind of system. The equation is not wrong and there IS a force (the net force exerted by the molecules to the chamber wall opposite of the exhaust). Macroscopicly it would be like soccer balls tied in a net. Those who’ve played soccer know what I’m talking about. Then net is held up by the force of the balls. As soon as you untie the net, the balls fall out and the net collapses. No opposite force. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77418720 Canada 03/16/2019 03:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There are plenty of experiments that show combustion does not work in a vacuum, even with things that have their own oxidizer. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72942955 Those talking with out researching it or trying it themselves in a vacuum chamber are just that, talk. Wrong. No I explained exactly why they are are false. Does a rocket in space push off a bullet or a metalframe? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77003244 No metal frame, no apparatus at all, just a rocket working in space: Measurements made from the video indicate that the booster is above the Karman line and in space during the boostback burn. My telescope has an altitude dial on the side which was previously recorded using a gopro during launch. From my launch viewing site, the telescope is angled up about 40 degrees above the horizon during the boostback burn. This sped-up video is zoomed in the altitude dial, apologies the resolution isn't good enough to read the numbers but you can see where the numbers are marked and they're in 10 degree increments, the video starts at launch (0 degrees) and ends at the end of the boostback burn (40 degrees): [link to drive.google.com (secure)] At launch the Falcon boosters are about 22 pixels wide in my camera: [link to drive.google.com (secure)] I'm 21.1 km from the launch site and the boosters are each 3.7 meters wide, so that corresponds to an angular size of 0.01 degrees. By the end of the boostback they're only about 3.2 pixels wide: [link to drive.google.com (secure)] Given that we know from the launch that a 3.7 meter wide booster is 22 pixels wide in the view from 21.1 km, that means a pixel size of 3.2 pixels corresponds to an angular size of about 0.00146 degrees. The range between my telescope and the booster is therefore about 145 km at that time. Given that it's about 40 degrees above the horizon, then even if we assume a flat earth the altitude above the ground of the booster was roughly 122 km. Let's be generous here and say I could be about 5 degrees off on either side of that 40 degree measurement. Even at 35 degrees above the horizon the altitude (even assuming a flat earth) would be 102 km. At 45 degrees it would of course be 145 km above the earth. So it was somewhere between about 102 - 145 km in altitude, above the Karman line and in space. My video indicates it had no trouble reversing course to come back and land near the launch site. Please show your evidence that the video indicates it was not in space. How do I know all the footage was contemporaneous? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37509171 Greece 03/16/2019 04:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37509171 First of all, mass change rate is dm/dt (with dot notation in the equation). He states that force equals mass flow rate. Actually we would say that the thrust force is proportional to the square of the rate of change of mass. He, by ignorance or intention, ignores the rest of the parameters. What the equation says is that the cause of the thrust force is the change of the mass of the system with respect to time. As for the rocket, the fuel is part of the mass of the system that comprises of the rocket. When the fuel combusts in the combustion chamber of the rocket, it creates high pressure and temperature and thus the produced gases try to expand (see entropy) as would one expect with the only option to do that by the nozzle. This mass that leaves was part of the mass of the rocket, unlike the air sucked from the vacuum cleaner of the "experiment" since in that case the system "vacuum cleaner and pipe" have a zero net mass change (it doesn't matter if it sucks air from a small or big hole) since whatever air is sucked in, gets out of the filter of the vacuum cleaner, thus dm/dt=0 and in accordance F_thrust=0. The equation startes that mass flow rate exiting a pipe causes force. Using the vacuum, you have mass flow rate exiting the pipe, but no force is observed. You have no evidence of what you say When the gases are forcibly expanding, the molecules of it actually collide to the walls of the combustion chamber thus losing kinetic energy that passes to the mass of the rocket (some part of it as kinetic and some as thermal) and of course they collide with each other in a random fashion, but eventually the net flow will be out of the exhaust, thus to the macroscopic level that would be a net force in the direction opposite of the exhaust. The net gained kinetic energy (see transfer of momentum aka collision of masses with velocities) will cause an acceleration with direction going to the opposite side of the exhaust, since the mass of the combusted gas will actually leave from there, it likes it or not, there is no other way out of that high pressure. This is also why you need to actually know the speed of the gas in the exhaust, due to the thermal loses. It's not a perfect machine, there are thermal loses in every kind of system. The equation is not wrong and there IS a force (the net force exerted by the molecules to the chamber wall opposite of the exhaust). Macroscopicly it would be like soccer balls tied in a net. Those who’ve played soccer know what I’m talking about. Then net is held up by the force of the balls. As soon as you untie the net, the balls fall out and the net collapses. No opposite force. We usually don't tie a soccer ball to a net here in Europe :D, but if I am getting right your thought experiment you referrering to is a ball tied to a pole with a net and the ball orbiting around it? In that case you have something different than a rocket which is losing mass at some rate. |