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All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility

 
Cosmic Asgard

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03/14/2019 01:43 PM

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
If you don't believe in the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church that compiled the New Testament then you will have to claim the New Testament is invalid and wrong.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

God Bless! Jim
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


So, if I buy a book from a bookstore, then I have to do what the book store manager says for the rest of my life?

epiclol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72568602


There's a reason why various old manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament, and even of the OT, have lasted 1900+ years.

Divine intervention.

Those manuscripts have lasted through...

-the Roman wars in the Middle East of the 1st / 2nd Century
-the 200+ years of Roman persecution of Christians that began with Nero
-the "trinitarian" changes made to the Bible beginning around Tertullian's time
-the invasions / expansion of Islam that began after Muhammad's death in 632 AD

AD 96 Clement Bishop of Rome quotes / refers to 11 books used for the New Testament including Matthew, Mark and Luke.

AD 108 Ignatius Bishop of Antioch quotes / refers to 24 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

AD 110 Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna quotes / refers to 18 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

These were NOT RCC "Bishops".
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


You're right. They are Orthodox.
Cosmic Asgard

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Now... to how all christians FOLLOW the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church:

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


grizzy The Roman Catholic "church" is a stinking pile of dung straight from the pits of hell.

MAMA'S GIRLS... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Judethz


I don't usually agree with you, but you are right this time.
SevenThunders

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The church that formed the Nicene council and the Synod of Hippo is a far cry from the whore of Babylon nesting in the Vatican in the modern era.

The New Testament describes the catholic church quite well in Revelations 17.
114

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven saying “You are rock, and upon this rock I build my Church. I give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.” Peter was indeed appointed head of the Church by Jesus himself. Peter literally means rock.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


Lol.

That's been explained by certain people.

I suggest you read, for instance, Clark Butterfield - Night Journey from Rome ... to the New Jerusalem.

He explains it.
Great conquerors and kings identified themselves with the sun and utilized its impartial spirit to ensure the loyalty of their subjects. Countless religious ceremonies and monuments, cultural pageants, and seasonal festivals around the world can be traced back to the ancient worship of the sun or related to it through agriculture and fertility rites.

~ The Sun: Symbol of Power and Life, -front flap-
____
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ALL IS ONE IS ALL

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03/14/2019 02:00 PM

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
You cannot quote the bible in this OP.. because the Catholic church did not exist then. It is the whore of Babylon though...

Jesus never gave anyone authority of this planet of that sort at all.. except the INNer FAther.

Peter did not start the Catholic Church and Jesus did not appoint him to rule either.

Last Edited by ALL IS ONE IS ALL on 03/14/2019 02:01 PM
There Can Be NO Peace in the Heart or Progress in the Mind unless one falls wholeheartedly in love with Truth and IDEALS of Eternal Realities.

Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.


"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.


Wisdom is not given, it is earned, and experience is the bestower.

Rejoice, for the world of ABSOLUTE TRANSPARENCY approaches, and decisions will be made according to the purity of your motives, for the eye of the Divine is an all-seeing eye, capable of glimpsing every flutter of the soul, knowing every yearning of your being and – incredible though it may seem – supporting every aspect of your own DIVINE PLAN.
Anonymous Coward 3373

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03/14/2019 04:10 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The church that formed the Nicene council and the Synod of Hippo is a far cry from the whore of Babylon nesting in the Vatican in the modern era.

The New Testament describes the catholic church quite well in Revelations 17.
 Quoting: SevenThunders


Weird, because Catholics still say the Nicene Creed (statement of faith written at the Council of Nicea) at every mass to this day.
Anon Coward
Anonymous Coward 3373

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
You cannot quote the bible in this OP.. because the Catholic church did not exist then. It is the whore of Babylon though...

Jesus never gave anyone authority of this planet of that sort at all.. except the INNer FAther.

Peter did not start the Catholic Church and Jesus did not appoint him to rule either.
 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL


The Catholic Church didn’t exist before the Bible? Huh, a dozen people from the first centuries of Christianity sure thought it did. [link to www.catholic.com (secure)] The books of the Bible were chosen at a Catholic Church council in the 4th century.

Jesus gave Peter the keys the Kingdom of Heaven. He said “You are Peter and upon this rock I build my Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. I give you the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you permit on Earth is permitted in Heaven, and whatever you forbid on Earth is forbidden in Heaven... Whoever’s sins you forgive are forgiven and whoever’s sins you retain are retained.”
Anon Coward
GSB/LTD

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven saying “You are rock, and upon this rock I build my Church. I give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.” Peter was indeed appointed head of the Church by Jesus himself. Peter literally means rock. The study of rocks is called Petrology. Why would Jesus in the same sentence say “You are rock, and upon a different rock I build my Church”? Protestants attempt to explain away the obvious meaning of this line in an attempt to deny the authority of the Pope by saying “Actually in the original Greek Jesus calls Peter “Petros” but then says he will build his Church upon this “Petra.” Yes, that’s true, but anyone who knows Greek knows that this is just how Greek grammar works. Anyone who understands Greek knows that there is no distinction between Peter the rock and the rock of Christ’s Church in that statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


The point is that you and the RCC claiming the RCC as the one true church begins in history as self-declaration, not Christ declared.

The congregation set up by Paul in Rome became a church with a bishop, just like dozens of others around the Mediterranean.

And ALL so-called early "popes" were basically nothing more than bishops, with no true authority over Christendom.

Only through subsequent Edicts did the church in Rome start claiming authority over the next several centuries.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The Church gradually became a defining institution of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313 proclaiming toleration for the Christian religion, and convoked the First Council of Nicaea in 325 whose Nicene Creed included belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380.

Through such "Edicts" Rome mixed pagan statues, beliefs etc...into the "church", turning the apostolic churches into a hiararchy / tradition-laden religion, just like Judaism had become.

The Waldensians LEFT the Rome area because of such.

God and His Son Jesus finally got fed up with the RCC, and initiated the Reformation, which led to each person reading the Bible and following Jesus and the Father, not human popes who tried to prevent those things.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Peter was known as the head of the Church since the earliest days of Christianity. That’s just an indisputable fact of history. Here are a dozen quotes from the first few centuries of Christianity proving this. Go ahead and find me one quote from the first few centuries AD that says otherwise. [link to www.catholic.com (secure)]

Also, the reformation was man-made and started by an ex-Catholic priest in sixteenth century Germany. Luther had valid complaints about abuse of power by the Church, but to start an entirely new religion and divide the Body of Christ was insane and against the will of God. Jesus prayed with tears that his people would be one. We now have 10,000 Christian denominations because people think they can interpret things for themselves. There is a reason Jesus established a Church. And he made Peter the first leader of it. Anti-Catholic paranoia and misunderstanding still runs deep thanks to the Reformation. For example, you call the Church pagan because we honor the saints, thinking we worship or deify them which we do not. We ask them to pray for us to God because they are alive in Heaven and are the greatest examples in human history of what Christians are called to be. You might as well call people pagan who hang pictures of their deceased loved ones on their wall.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373

Did you not read ANYTHING that I posted above, or are you so indoctrinated into the RCC that NOTHING will make you open your eyes?

The Catholic church is no different than the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They've become full of manmade traditions.

The RCC even made changes to Bible verses. It's been admitted that they changed Matthew 28:19.

[link to jesus-messiah.com]

Peter...nor Jesus...established the RCC.

The RCC claims Peter as first pope by proxy...not by truth.

The RCC truly didn't start grasping hold of the Catholic Empire until 445, when the emperor Valentinian III decreed that all western bishops must obey the pope.

Roman leaders spent the entire 290+ years between Christ's death and Constantine's supposed vision in 312 AD persecuting and killing Christians.

They had NO control etc...of the network of Christian churches that had been in existence since the apostles had begun establishing them after Christ's ascension.

Rome merely assimilated them, beginning with the Council of Nicea.

And just because the RCC LISTS popes before then....

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

....does NOT mean they were actually true Roman Catholic popes. Funny how pretty much ALL the supposed popes PRIOR to the proclamation of the Edict of Milan in 313 were killed.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Killed by WHO?

Roman leaders.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


What you are totallly ignoring -as do all who know nothing about the TRUE Roman Empire- is that the Romans did NOT persecute Christians just because they were Christians!

From it's first foundings, Rome was a migratory city that was forced to embrace people from many different faiths [BTW: this is a practice that continues to this day in any major tourist destination city: the police are always more solicitous because they realise their city thrives from a diverse visiting populace]; but since Roman law was fully intertwined with the worship of multiple Gods, is was a CAPITOL CRIME to publicly worship any other God. The key word there is PUBLICLY. The Roman Senate couldn't care less who/what Roman citizens worshipped PRIVATELY and it was only when they did so in public that they were arrested, charged, convicted and executed. Again, this was all in accordance to long-established Roman LAW. And THAT's the only reason that Christians were ever "persecuted" - because they aggressively worshipped their singular God publicly and in direct violation of those laws.

Further, the oft-told tales of Christians being regularly thrown to the Lions is also FALSE -at least up until the time of Diocletian, who decided to clamp down decisively all on all religious zealots- and not just Christians! Executions of Christians during Nero's time were actually quite rare and only occurred a few times a year, with crucifixion reserved soley for those who committed the highest crimes against the Roman Empire. For all practicle purposes, that word should be more accurately spelled, "cruci-fiction" because that's precisely what modern interpretations entail. What you have been taught to believe is a blatant lie, from the writings of such very biassed "historians" such as Josephus and the later Eusebius of Ceasaria.

How I sincerely wish that otherwise well-informed Christians would do a little honest reasearch instead of merely parroting the revisionist history that the Church itself created and propagates to this day, because the Catholic Church has LIED all along about what actually occurred in ancient Rome!!!

Last Edited by GSB/LTD on 03/14/2019 05:09 PM
TheLordsServant

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
There's a reason why various old manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament, and even of the OT, have lasted 1900+ years.

Divine intervention.

Those manuscripts have lasted through...

-the Roman wars in the Middle East of the 1st / 2nd Century
-the 200+ years of Roman persecution of Christians that began with Nero
-the "trinitarian" changes made to the Bible beginning around Tertullian's time
-the invasions / expansion of Islam that began after Muhammad's death in 632 AD

AD 96 Clement Bishop of Rome quotes / refers to 11 books used for the New Testament including Matthew, Mark and Luke.

AD 108 Ignatius Bishop of Antioch quotes / refers to 24 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

AD 110 Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna quotes / refers to 18 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

These were NOT RCC "Bishops".
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


WHAT?? Ignatius of Antioch has written letters about his Church that he calls Catholic:

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid.”

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Clement was the 4th documented pope of the Catholic Church:

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


The RCC didn't exist until at least the 4th century.

"Catholic" in Ignatius's time did NOT MEAN the RCC.

Clement is only listed as a pope because the RCC back-dated their existence all the way to Peter.

Look at the previous posts I made in this topic.

Do the research.

I have nothing against Catholic believers, but the Vatican's claims are nothing but assimilations of the churches the Apostles made.

1doh1
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TheLordsServant

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
What you are totallly ignoring -as do all who know nothing about the TRUE Roman Empire- is that the Romans did NOT persecute Christians just because they were Christians!

From it's first foundings, Rome was a migratory city that was forced to embrace people from many different faiths [BTW: this is a practice that continues to this day in any major tourist destination city: the police are always more solicitous because they realise their city thrives from a diverse visiting populace]; but since Roman law was fully intertwined with the worship of multiple Gods, is was a CAPITOL CRIME to publicly worship any other God. The key word there is PUBLICLY. The Roman Senate couldn't care less who/what Roman citizens worshipped PRIVATELY and it was only when they did so in public that they were arrested, charged, convicted and executed. Again, this was all in accordance to long-established Roman LAW. And THAT's the only reason that Christians were ever "persecuted" - because they aggressively worshipped their singular God publicly and in direct violation of those laws.

Further, the oft-told tales of Christians being regularly thrown to the Lions is also FALSE -at least up until the time of Diocletian, who decided to clamp down decisively all on all religious zealots- and not just Christians! Executions of Christians during Nero's time were actually quite rare and only occurred a few times a year, with crucifixion reserved soley for those who committed the highest crimes against the Roman Empire. For all practicle purposes, that word should be more accurately spelled, "cruci-fiction" because that's precisely what modern interpretations entail. What you have been taught to believe is a blatant lie, from the writings of such very biassed "historians" such as Josephus and the later Eusebius of Ceasaria.

How I sincerely wish that otherwise well-informed Christians would do a little honest reasearch instead of merely parroting the revisionist history that the Church itself created and propagates to this day, because the Catholic Church has LIED all along about what actually occurred in ancient Rome!!!
 Quoting: GSB/LTD


WHat are you...a decendant of Roman leaders?

Regardless of the "reasons" you presuppose...the Christians WERE targeted and persecuted.

Nero was the first.

You posted a lot of babble without posting links to anything backing up your claims.

NLYS-link
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
OP: What you are overlooking is that the fall of the Roman Empire was not due to widepsread immorality as many believe, but in fact the collapse only began when Chrisitanity replaced Polythesism under Constantine I; for 750 years the Romans built a civilisation unmatched even by today's standards and then in only 175 years the Christians completely destroyed it.

And, before you start to proclaim Theodosius I as some ersatz Holy man, you'd better know that he was excommunicated in 390 by Ambrose Bishop of Milan. True: he did ban all pagan worship -in public or private- and closed all their temples, but after diminishing them in a 4-year war, he also allowed the Visigoths to settle onto Roman territory which only allowed them to return to attack years later and destroy what little he had accomplished. When Theodosius I died in 395, he left what remained of the eastern Empire to his 17yr old son Arcadius and the western portion to his 10-yr old son Honorius. They were both feckless rulers who in turn passed Rome on to their own young wildly incompetent sons. They also chose not to engage those same Visigoths their Daddy had stupidly not banished and in 410 the Visgoths sacked Rome itself.

Many people are under the impression that Constantine was a noble Emperor dedicated to Christianity. The Church itself promotes this endlessly, but it is utter bullshit! In reality, he saw in the Christians an easily-led power bloc that would help him seize control of the Empire and once he attained the throne of Rome he only tossed them crumbs in return. He raised taxes to inordinant levels, prompting the Christians to rebel - they thought that since they shared the same beliefs as the Emperor they should get special treatment and demanded same! Instead, Constantine spent those taxes on bejewelled robes/slippers and built a new, massive and lavish capitol city -Constantinople- which he vainly named after himself. Should I also mention that he murdered his own wife and son?

Further -in spite of his public worship of Christianity- Constantine refused to be baptized into that faith until he was virtually on his deathbed and even then only wanted to have it done in the Jordan River as a PR stunt; he never made it and was killed enroute at the hands of a disgruntled Christian; this occurred shortly after his baptism by devoted acolyte/ass-sniffer Eusebius - who was a wealthy Priest, self-proclaimed religious historian and propagandist... he was nothing more a shameless brown-noser whose sole purpose was to establish himself as the only authority on the Catholic Church. It was Eusebius who wrote all the texts that proclaimed Constantine a legendary Christian ruler when in fact they were both nothing more than a couple of con artists! Eusebius was likewise instrumental in assembling those Biblical scriptures at the Council of Rome, even though he too had been previously excommunicated for heretical beliefs... but to this day, the Catholic Church holds him aloft in near-Sainthood!

There were 25 Emperors after Constantine and all but one of them were "Christians" - the sole holdout was Julian who was immediately branded an Apostate when he attempted to return Rome to it's earlier religious practices. Julian was a very popular ruler because the average Roman citizen was already weary of the constantly restrictive Christian tenets and because Julian lowered those high taxes that Constantine and his immediate followers had levied. The other 24 Christian Emperors ran Rome right into the ground and that's what caused the Dark Ages where your preciously omnipotent Church banned all formal study outside of itself and in so doing marched civilisation back a couple of hundred years in the process.

One final thought: your greatest mistake is in believing that the Catholic Church is infallible when history has proven endlessly the exact opposite. This renders your final sentence above the most ludicrous of all: that a Church is authoritative and infallible just because it claims to be and that this magically somehow makes it true. And for you to further suggest if you do not accept that declaration as fact then you must then dismiss the entire New Testament only adds insult to your thoughtless philosophical injury.

You Sir, are a fool of the greatest magnitude who clearly knows very little of the documented, ancient history that your Church has ardently supressed for 1500 years.
 Quoting: GSB/LTD


The Church only uses its authority of infallibility on things like the Eucharist, confession, etc.. that has to do with salvation. Not all doctrine is infallible. They don't abuse the power of binding and loosing authority that "Jesus" gave the Church. Yes, there is evil in the Church and there always will be evil in the Church. Jesus invites sinners to the Church; He's a physician for sinners not the righteous. The Apostles were sinners, St Paul was a murderer of people, Judas gave Jesus over for 30 pieces of silver, etc... Did Jesus tell other apostles to stop preaching? Did He tell St. Paul to stop writing? Unfortunately the Church has done some really evil things! But, if you were satan and you know Jesus started the Catholic Church to "help" souls get into heaven, who are you going to attack? The Catholic Church.

Good quick video: [link to www.catholic.com (secure)]

Some background: [link to www.catholic.com (secure)]

God Bless
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


Forgive me, these pages/vid are really not helpful - far too didactic and the guy who gives answers on the vid is, shall I say, not the best at gospelling.

Some of the EWTN and RCIA materials would be much better, more accessible than these.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Jesus gave Peter the keys the Kingdom of Heaven.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


Catholic bullshit.

I believe in Jesus Christ.

What keys do you say are needed?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

"And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"

But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Anonymous Coward
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
You can quote as many scriptures as you'd like.

The fact is, scriptures were there before the demonic Catholic church.

Read Fox's Book of Martyrs. The Catholic church has been persecuting the true true since very early on.

The Catholic church did canonize the bible, but I almost every book that was used in the Original church was included, minus 2. Why you ask?

1. Because they could not be verified
2. Because they did not line up with the rest of the bible.

There were many counterfeits.

You can argue all you want, but the fact is God created everything and He most certainly can preserve His word.

Many have proven that He has done exactly that.

Look outside, see the grass, the tree's and the sky?

If God can sustain all those things, He most certainly can sustain his written word...

And nobody, not even you can change that. :)

God is almighty, and men are not.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76778667


King Henry VIII left the Catholic Church because the Church did not approve his marriage. Foxe believes this is the true church and not the Catholic Church. The Church of England was created because the Catholic Church would not approve a marriage. Think about that...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


Yes, and more than that the C of E (Anglicanism) was also founded on murder, lust and hunger for power.

Henry 8 didn't just leave the Roman church, he smashed everything he could about it in britain. He murdered priests and monks and believers. Forced people to be in his new church.

The Cof E still syncs closely with the Uk govt and queen to do their bidding, sometimes before God's teachings.
Anonymous Coward 3373

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Jesus gave Peter the keys the Kingdom of Heaven.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


Catholic bullshit.

I believe in Jesus Christ.

What keys do you say are needed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77457889


The ones Jesus explicitly gave to Peter in sacred scripture.
Anon Coward
Anonymous Coward 3373

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
What you are totallly ignoring -as do all who know nothing about the TRUE Roman Empire- is that the Romans did NOT persecute Christians just because they were Christians!

From it's first foundings, Rome was a migratory city that was forced to embrace people from many different faiths [BTW: this is a practice that continues to this day in any major tourist destination city: the police are always more solicitous because they realise their city thrives from a diverse visiting populace]; but since Roman law was fully intertwined with the worship of multiple Gods, is was a CAPITOL CRIME to publicly worship any other God. The key word there is PUBLICLY. The Roman Senate couldn't care less who/what Roman citizens worshipped PRIVATELY and it was only when they did so in public that they were arrested, charged, convicted and executed. Again, this was all in accordance to long-established Roman LAW. And THAT's the only reason that Christians were ever "persecuted" - because they aggressively worshipped their singular God publicly and in direct violation of those laws.

Further, the oft-told tales of Christians being regularly thrown to the Lions is also FALSE -at least up until the time of Diocletian, who decided to clamp down decisively all on all religious zealots- and not just Christians! Executions of Christians during Nero's time were actually quite rare and only occurred a few times a year, with crucifixion reserved soley for those who committed the highest crimes against the Roman Empire. For all practicle purposes, that word should be more accurately spelled, "cruci-fiction" because that's precisely what modern interpretations entail. What you have been taught to believe is a blatant lie, from the writings of such very biassed "historians" such as Josephus and the later Eusebius of Ceasaria.

How I sincerely wish that otherwise well-informed Christians would do a little honest reasearch instead of merely parroting the revisionist history that the Church itself created and propagates to this day, because the Catholic Church has LIED all along about what actually occurred in ancient Rome!!!
 Quoting: GSB/LTD


WHat are you...a decendant of Roman leaders?

Regardless of the "reasons" you presuppose...the Christians WERE targeted and persecuted.

Nero was the first.

You posted a lot of babble without posting links to anything backing up your claims.

NLYS-link
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Did you miss the part where he says he wishes Christians would do their own honest research?
Anon Coward
Anonymous Coward 3373

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
There's a reason why various old manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament, and even of the OT, have lasted 1900+ years.

Divine intervention.

Those manuscripts have lasted through...

-the Roman wars in the Middle East of the 1st / 2nd Century
-the 200+ years of Roman persecution of Christians that began with Nero
-the "trinitarian" changes made to the Bible beginning around Tertullian's time
-the invasions / expansion of Islam that began after Muhammad's death in 632 AD

AD 96 Clement Bishop of Rome quotes / refers to 11 books used for the New Testament including Matthew, Mark and Luke.

AD 108 Ignatius Bishop of Antioch quotes / refers to 24 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

AD 110 Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna quotes / refers to 18 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

These were NOT RCC "Bishops".
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


WHAT?? Ignatius of Antioch has written letters about his Church that he calls Catholic:

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid.”

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Clement was the 4th documented pope of the Catholic Church:

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


The RCC didn't exist until at least the 4th century.

"Catholic" in Ignatius's time did NOT MEAN the RCC.

Clement is only listed as a pope because the RCC back-dated their existence all the way to Peter.

Look at the previous posts I made in this topic.

Do the research.

I have nothing against Catholic believers, but the Vatican's claims are nothing but assimilations of the churches the Apostles made.

1doh1
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


That’s what a non-Catholic Christian would have to believe to justify not being Catholic, yes. It is complete nonsense though.
Anon Coward
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03/14/2019 08:28 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
There's a reason why various old manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament, and even of the OT, have lasted 1900+ years.

Divine intervention.

Those manuscripts have lasted through...

-the Roman wars in the Middle East of the 1st / 2nd Century
-the 200+ years of Roman persecution of Christians that began with Nero
-the "trinitarian" changes made to the Bible beginning around Tertullian's time
-the invasions / expansion of Islam that began after Muhammad's death in 632 AD

AD 96 Clement Bishop of Rome quotes / refers to 11 books used for the New Testament including Matthew, Mark and Luke.

AD 108 Ignatius Bishop of Antioch quotes / refers to 24 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

AD 110 Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna quotes / refers to 18 books used for the New Testament including all 4 Gospels.

These were NOT RCC "Bishops".
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


WHAT?? Ignatius of Antioch has written letters about his Church that he calls Catholic:

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid.”

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Clement was the 4th documented pope of the Catholic Church:

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


The RCC didn't exist until at least the 4th century.

"Catholic" in Ignatius's time did NOT MEAN the RCC.

Clement is only listed as a pope because the RCC back-dated their existence all the way to Peter.

Look at the previous posts I made in this topic.

Do the research.

I have nothing against Catholic believers, but the Vatican's claims are nothing but assimilations of the churches the Apostles made.

1doh1
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


That’s what a non-Catholic Christian would have to believe to justify not being Catholic, yes. It is complete nonsense though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


I’ve done my own research btw. Your sources clearly have an anti-Catholic agenda and ignore accepted history that doesn’t fit their views.
Anon Coward
TheLordsServant

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03/14/2019 09:54 PM

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The RCC didn't exist until at least the 4th century.

"Catholic" in Ignatius's time did NOT MEAN the RCC.

Clement is only listed as a pope because the RCC back-dated their existence all the way to Peter.

Look at the previous posts I made in this topic.

Do the research.

I have nothing against Catholic believers, but the Vatican's claims are nothing but assimilations of the churches the Apostles made.

1doh1
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


That’s what a non-Catholic Christian would have to believe to justify not being Catholic, yes. It is complete nonsense though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


I’ve done my own research btw. Your sources clearly have an anti-Catholic agenda and ignore accepted history that doesn’t fit their views.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


Accepted by who?

You mean like the "history / facts" of evolution that's rammed down school kids throats?

Here's some FACTS that you CAN NOT deny.
--------------------------------------------

The congregation set up by Paul in Rome became a church with a bishop, just like dozens of others around the Mediterranean.

And ALL so-called early "popes" were basically nothing more than bishops, with no true authority over Christendom.

Only through subsequent Edicts did the church in Rome start claiming authority over the next several centuries.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The Church gradually became a defining institution of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313 proclaiming toleration for the Christian religion, and convoked the First Council of Nicaea in 325 whose Nicene Creed included belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380.

Through such "Edicts" Rome mixed pagan statues, beliefs etc...into the "church", turning the apostolic churches into a hiararchy / tradition-laden religion, just like Judaism had become.

The Waldensians LEFT the Rome area because of such.

God and His Son Jesus finally got fed up with the RCC, and initiated the Reformation, which led to each person reading the Bible and following Jesus and the Father, not human popes who tried to prevent those things.
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/14/2019 11:02 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The RCC didn't exist until at least the 4th century.

"Catholic" in Ignatius's time did NOT MEAN the RCC.

Clement is only listed as a pope because the RCC back-dated their existence all the way to Peter.

Look at the previous posts I made in this topic.

Do the research.

I have nothing against Catholic believers, but the Vatican's claims are nothing but assimilations of the churches the Apostles made.

1doh1
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


That’s what a non-Catholic Christian would have to believe to justify not being Catholic, yes. It is complete nonsense though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


I’ve done my own research btw. Your sources clearly have an anti-Catholic agenda and ignore accepted history that doesn’t fit their views.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3373


Accepted by who?

You mean like the "history / facts" of evolution that's rammed down school kids throats?

Here's some FACTS that you CAN NOT deny.
--------------------------------------------

The congregation set up by Paul in Rome became a church with a bishop, just like dozens of others around the Mediterranean.

And ALL so-called early "popes" were basically nothing more than bishops, with no true authority over Christendom.

Only through subsequent Edicts did the church in Rome start claiming authority over the next several centuries.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The Church gradually became a defining institution of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313 proclaiming toleration for the Christian religion, and convoked the First Council of Nicaea in 325 whose Nicene Creed included belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380.

Through such "Edicts" Rome mixed pagan statues, beliefs etc...into the "church", turning the apostolic churches into a hiararchy / tradition-laden religion, just like Judaism had become.

The Waldensians LEFT the Rome area because of such.

God and His Son Jesus finally got fed up with the RCC, and initiated the Reformation, which led to each person reading the Bible and following Jesus and the Father, not human popes who tried to prevent those things.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Hopefully you’re just ignorant. I’ll pray for you! Don’t harden your heart because you want to be right. Look at the evidence of the early church fathers. They’re Catholic. God will judge your heart!

This is about Justin Martyr (155 AD) which the Church has many Catholic writings from:

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2019 11:36 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Mark 16:16


The Catholic Church renounces Satan. They baptize in Jesus Christ name. I see nothing wrong with the Catholic Church. Anyone who denies Jesus Christ through Church denies salvation. If you accept that he died for remission of YOUR SINS, the Church that does this will prevail. If you say this Church is not good, this Church is evil. Who are you saying this to and why? It is possible to be saved if the CHURCH covers the grounds of being initiated into the belief that Jesus Christ is YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.

You can follow Jesus Christ. You have to BELIEVE to gain remission of sins. The proper outlets will come to you. Anyone who says they follow Jesus Christ and is not baptized is a false follower. If you follow Jesus Christ go prove it and be baptized.
TheLordsServant

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03/15/2019 12:08 PM

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Accepted by who?

You mean like the "history / facts" of evolution that's rammed down school kids throats?

Here's some FACTS that you CAN NOT deny.
--------------------------------------------

The congregation set up by Paul in Rome became a church with a bishop, just like dozens of others around the Mediterranean.

And ALL so-called early "popes" were basically nothing more than bishops, with no true authority over Christendom.

Only through subsequent Edicts did the church in Rome start claiming authority over the next several centuries.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The Church gradually became a defining institution of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313 proclaiming toleration for the Christian religion, and convoked the First Council of Nicaea in 325 whose Nicene Creed included belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380.

Through such "Edicts" Rome mixed pagan statues, beliefs etc...into the "church", turning the apostolic churches into a hiararchy / tradition-laden religion, just like Judaism had become.

The Waldensians LEFT the Rome area because of such.

God and His Son Jesus finally got fed up with the RCC, and initiated the Reformation, which led to each person reading the Bible and following Jesus and the Father, not human popes who tried to prevent those things.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Hopefully you’re just ignorant. I’ll pray for you! Don’t harden your heart because you want to be right. Look at the evidence of the early church fathers. They’re Catholic. God will judge your heart!

This is about Justin Martyr (155 AD) which the Church has many Catholic writings from:

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


My heart isn't hardened, against Believers, yet it's easy to see what happened centuries ago.

First off, the word "catholic" was a generic term used to describe the churches that had been founded by the Apostles.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Theodosius I, Emperor from 379 to 395, declared "Catholic" Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, declaring in the Edict of Thessalonica of 27 February 380

The Nicene Creed didn't exist until 380.

The RCC truly didn't start grasping hold of the Catholic Empire until 445, when the emperor Valentinian III decreed that all western bishops must obey the pope.

Notice that BOTH Theodosius AND Valentinian III were EMPERORS.

NOT popes.

Finally, it's ironic prior to Constantine's Edict of making Christianity "legal", Roman authorities spent the previous 290 years persecuting Christians.

Then, in 385 CE the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany.

This began a centuries-long assualt on both pagans AND non-Catholics that lasted up until the 1700's.

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 03/15/2019 12:09 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 75263717
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03/16/2019 01:49 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Accepted by who?

You mean like the "history / facts" of evolution that's rammed down school kids throats?

Here's some FACTS that you CAN NOT deny.
--------------------------------------------

The congregation set up by Paul in Rome became a church with a bishop, just like dozens of others around the Mediterranean.

And ALL so-called early "popes" were basically nothing more than bishops, with no true authority over Christendom.

Only through subsequent Edicts did the church in Rome start claiming authority over the next several centuries.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The Church gradually became a defining institution of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313 proclaiming toleration for the Christian religion, and convoked the First Council of Nicaea in 325 whose Nicene Creed included belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380.

Through such "Edicts" Rome mixed pagan statues, beliefs etc...into the "church", turning the apostolic churches into a hiararchy / tradition-laden religion, just like Judaism had become.

The Waldensians LEFT the Rome area because of such.

God and His Son Jesus finally got fed up with the RCC, and initiated the Reformation, which led to each person reading the Bible and following Jesus and the Father, not human popes who tried to prevent those things.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Hopefully you’re just ignorant. I’ll pray for you! Don’t harden your heart because you want to be right. Look at the evidence of the early church fathers. They’re Catholic. God will judge your heart!

This is about Justin Martyr (155 AD) which the Church has many Catholic writings from:

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


My heart isn't hardened, against Believers, yet it's easy to see what happened centuries ago.

First off, the word "catholic" was a generic term used to describe the churches that had been founded by the Apostles.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Theodosius I, Emperor from 379 to 395, declared "Catholic" Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, declaring in the Edict of Thessalonica of 27 February 380

The Nicene Creed didn't exist until 380.

The RCC truly didn't start grasping hold of the Catholic Empire until 445, when the emperor Valentinian III decreed that all western bishops must obey the pope.

Notice that BOTH Theodosius AND Valentinian III were EMPERORS.

NOT popes.

Finally, it's ironic prior to Constantine's Edict of making Christianity "legal", Roman authorities spent the previous 290 years persecuting Christians.

Then, in 385 CE the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany.

This began a centuries-long assualt on both pagans AND non-Catholics that lasted up until the 1700's.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


The word Catholic was used as a generic term. Really??? Come on!!! So Ignatius of Antioch who was born during time of the apostles (35AD), his letters about the Church he called the Catholic Church was just generic usage of the word?! You can't deny facts/ history my friend.

The fact that you're spending your time searching for God is great though!!! Lot's of people are not! God Bless!!!
TheLordsServant

User ID: 16404946
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03/16/2019 02:12 PM

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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Accepted by who?

You mean like the "history / facts" of evolution that's rammed down school kids throats?

Here's some FACTS that you CAN NOT deny.
--------------------------------------------

The congregation set up by Paul in Rome became a church with a bishop, just like dozens of others around the Mediterranean.

And ALL so-called early "popes" were basically nothing more than bishops, with no true authority over Christendom.

Only through subsequent Edicts did the church in Rome start claiming authority over the next several centuries.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The Church gradually became a defining institution of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313 proclaiming toleration for the Christian religion, and convoked the First Council of Nicaea in 325 whose Nicene Creed included belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380.

Through such "Edicts" Rome mixed pagan statues, beliefs etc...into the "church", turning the apostolic churches into a hiararchy / tradition-laden religion, just like Judaism had become.

The Waldensians LEFT the Rome area because of such.

God and His Son Jesus finally got fed up with the RCC, and initiated the Reformation, which led to each person reading the Bible and following Jesus and the Father, not human popes who tried to prevent those things.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Hopefully you’re just ignorant. I’ll pray for you! Don’t harden your heart because you want to be right. Look at the evidence of the early church fathers. They’re Catholic. God will judge your heart!

This is about Justin Martyr (155 AD) which the Church has many Catholic writings from:

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


My heart isn't hardened, against Believers, yet it's easy to see what happened centuries ago.

First off, the word "catholic" was a generic term used to describe the churches that had been founded by the Apostles.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Theodosius I, Emperor from 379 to 395, declared "Catholic" Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, declaring in the Edict of Thessalonica of 27 February 380

The Nicene Creed didn't exist until 380.

The RCC truly didn't start grasping hold of the Catholic Empire until 445, when the emperor Valentinian III decreed that all western bishops must obey the pope.

Notice that BOTH Theodosius AND Valentinian III were EMPERORS.

NOT popes.

Finally, it's ironic prior to Constantine's Edict of making Christianity "legal", Roman authorities spent the previous 290 years persecuting Christians.

Then, in 385 CE the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany.

This began a centuries-long assualt on both pagans AND non-Catholics that lasted up until the 1700's.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


The word Catholic was used as a generic term. Really??? Come on!!! So Ignatius of Antioch who was born during time of the apostles (35AD), his letters about the Church he called the Catholic Church was just generic usage of the word?! You can't deny facts/ history my friend.

The fact that you're spending your time searching for God is great though!!! Lot's of people are not! God Bless!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717

"Catholic" merely meant "universal" in the beginning.

Jesus nor Peter started the Catholic Church.

Roman authorities merely co-opted the churches in the hope of keeping their empire.

The governmental empire died but the church persecuted pagans and non-Catholics for centuries.

These are facts you can NOT deny.

WHY do you suppose the Reformation was begun?

God and His Son got FED UP with what the Catholics were doing.

They have been covering up pedophilic abuses for decades if not longer.

HUNDREDS of priests and others.

You support that?

gaah

Last Edited by TheLordsServant on 03/16/2019 02:16 PM
I am but a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2019 04:54 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The bible told us that the throne of satan would remain until the return of Christ. What is the throne of satan? The Roman Emperors sat on it,I wonder who is sitting on it now? The Catholic church is the little horn from the book of Daniel.
dogman17

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03/16/2019 05:10 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The Catholic Church: An obsolete business model.
frp
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2019 05:17 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Here's why...

In Matt 16: 17-19

Jesus changes Simon's name (means little grain of sand in Aramaic) to Kepha (means massive rock in Aramaic; Peter) and says "upon Kepha I will build my Church and the gates of hell will never overpower it." - though hell is trying very hard to overpower it in today's world! Jesus then gives Peter (1st Pope) the keys to the kingdom of heaven and says, "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

The Church has binding and loosing authority. Think about that for a minute. If it is bound in heaven it has to be perfect because heaven is perfect. This is the basis for authority and infallibility of the Church.

Now... to how all christians FOLLOW the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church:

The Catholic Church compiled the New Testament of the Bible in 382AD during the Council of Rome (see link below). The Church leaders under Pope Damasus I used the binding and loosing authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church to vote on what books and letters should be in the Bible or not. They voted out the gospel of Hebrews for example but voted in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There were thousand of books and letters that the Church had to review which many authors thought were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

If you don't believe in the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church that compiled the New Testament then you will have to claim the New Testament is invalid and wrong.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

God Bless! Jim
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


Invalid. It's Lies.
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2019 05:19 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Look at what they do in secret. They dont even believe it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/16/2019 07:18 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
The bible told us that the throne of satan would remain until the return of Christ. What is the throne of satan? The Roman Emperors sat on it,I wonder who is sitting on it now? The Catholic church is the little horn from the book of Daniel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77467152


so the book the Catholic Church compiled describes itself as satan's throne? Okay bro! you really make sense.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/16/2019 07:19 PM
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Re: All christians FOLLOW the Catholic Church's authority and infallibility
Here's why...

In Matt 16: 17-19

Jesus changes Simon's name (means little grain of sand in Aramaic) to Kepha (means massive rock in Aramaic; Peter) and says "upon Kepha I will build my Church and the gates of hell will never overpower it." - though hell is trying very hard to overpower it in today's world! Jesus then gives Peter (1st Pope) the keys to the kingdom of heaven and says, "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

The Church has binding and loosing authority. Think about that for a minute. If it is bound in heaven it has to be perfect because heaven is perfect. This is the basis for authority and infallibility of the Church.

Now... to how all christians FOLLOW the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church:

The Catholic Church compiled the New Testament of the Bible in 382AD during the Council of Rome (see link below). The Church leaders under Pope Damasus I used the binding and loosing authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church to vote on what books and letters should be in the Bible or not. They voted out the gospel of Hebrews for example but voted in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There were thousand of books and letters that the Church had to review which many authors thought were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

If you don't believe in the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church that compiled the New Testament then you will have to claim the New Testament is invalid and wrong.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

God Bless! Jim
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75263717


Invalid. It's Lies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77101846


actually valid evidence. pure and simple.