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Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation

 
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03/21/2019 08:05 PM

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Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
NASA LIARS & SCUMBAGS

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cosmicgypsy

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03/21/2019 08:32 PM

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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
They put them in trash bags and trash cans....my god, that tore me up....verysad
...I adapt to the unknown,
under wandering stars I've grown,
by myself, but not alone...

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To remember that no matter how darkness creeped in on us... to discover that we do not give up on casting it out of us and this world, is to discover faith. --Ain Soph Aur/A R K, GLP member

When North Korea is easier to negotiate with than the democrat party, then something is horribly wrong with them.--Zedakah, GLP member
darth

User ID: 28178764
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03/22/2019 01:45 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
Dukster

User ID: 76647789
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03/22/2019 02:01 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth


wow this is disturbing. i worked at hamilton standard when it was a part of utc. i never heard anyone question the o-ring theory.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76338311
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03/22/2019 02:14 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth


wow this is disturbing. i worked at hamilton standard when it was a part of utc. i never heard anyone question the o-ring theory.
 Quoting: Dukster


And this right here is what makes GLP priceless and why I will always keep coming back hoping for the days of old and just had a sweet taste of nostalgia
darth

User ID: 28178764
United States
03/22/2019 04:02 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth


wow this is disturbing. i worked at hamilton standard when it was a part of utc. i never heard anyone question the o-ring theory.
 Quoting: Dukster


And this right here is what makes GLP priceless and why I will always keep coming back hoping for the days of old and just had a sweet taste of nostalgia
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76338311


People should always question the official story.

BTW, TWA 800 was shot down by a pair of OUR missiles that were being tested. They were launched from a sub. The 747 was 4000 feet below assigned altitude.

A tragic accident, but covered up by the craven MSM to protect Prez Clinton. Not that it was HIS fault. The Prez is never informed about Black World testing. It was a stupid mistake by a program manager.

They also lied to protect the Black World. There are plenty of leftist pols and civil servants who would love to attack our most secret programs. THAT I can understand.

How do I know this? I was briefed way back before the tests ever took place.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77452955
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03/22/2019 04:25 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Here's the actual SCRIPT AFTER THE INITIAL EXPLOSION!

A secret NASA tape reveals that the crew of the shuttle Challenger not only survived the explosion that ripped the vessel apart; they screamed, cried, cursed and prayed for three hellish minutes before they slammed into the Atlantic and perished on January 28, 1986.

The tape is said to begin with a startled crewman screaming,”What happened? What happened? Oh God – No!” Screams and curses are heard – several crewmen begin to weep – and then others bid their families farewell.

Two minutes forty-five seconds later the tape ends. That’s when the shuttles crew compartment, which remained intact after the vessel exploded over the Atlantic, hit the ocean at over 2,000 miles per hour, instantly killing the crew.

“Cover up? Of course there was a coverup,” declared Robert Hotz, a member of the Presidential commission that investigated the disaster. “NASA can’t face the fact that they put these astronauts in a situation where they didn’t have adequate equipment to survive. NASA doesn’t give a damn about anything but covering it’s ass,” he said.

The official account released by NASA ends with shuttle pilot Michael Smith saying, “Uh-oh!” Some NASA employees have evidently heard more – much more. And they provided the rest of the account based on what they’ve discussed within NASA in the last five years. The astronauts had time and realized something was happening after the shuttle broke up.

“All shuttle astronauts carry personal recorders and the tape in question apparently came from Christa’s (McAuliffe), which was recovered after the shuttle disaster,” said Hotz. Jarvis was sitting beside her, and when he figured out what was happening he said, “Give me your hand.”

“NASA insists there’s nothing like that on tape but they’re talking about the mission tape, not Christa’s. So they’re not lying, but they’re not telling the truth, either.”

A journalist with close ties to NASA was even more emphatic, “There are persistent rumors, dating back to the disaster, that this tape is absolutely bone-chilling.”

The following transcript begins two seconds after NASA’s official version ends, with pilot Michael Smith saying, “Uh-oh!” Times from the moment of takeoff are shown in minutes and seconds and are approximate. The sex of the speaker is indicated by M or F.

T+1:15 (M) What happened? What happened? Oh God, no – no!

T+1:17 (F) Oh dear God.

T+1:18 (M) Turn on your air pack! Turn on your air…

T+1:20 (M) Can’t breathe… choking…

T+1:21 (M) Lift up your visor!

T+1:22 (M/F) (Screams.) It’s hot. (Sobs.) I can’t. Don’t tell me… God! Do it…now…

T+1:24 (M) I told them… I told them… Dammit! Resnik don’t…

T+1:27 (M) Take it easy! Move (unintelligible)…

T+1:28 (F) Don’t let me die like this. Not now. Not here…

T+1:31 (M) Your arm… no… I (extended garble, static)

T+1:36 (F) I’m… passing… out…

T+1:37 (M) We’re not dead yet.

T+1:40 (M) If you ever wanted (unintelligible) me a miracle… (unintelligible)… (screams)

T+1:41 (M) She’s… she’s… (garble) … damn!

T+1:50 (M) Can’t breathe…

T+1:51 (M/F) (screams) Jesus Christ! No!

T+1:54 (M) She’s out.

T+1:55 (M) Lucky… (unintelligible).

T+1:56 (M) God. The water… we’re dead! (screams)

T+2:00 (F) Goodbye (sobs)… I love you, I love you…

T+2:03 (M) Loosen up… loosen up…

T+2:07 (M) It’ll just be like a ditch landing…

T+2:09 (M) That’s right, think positive.

T+2:11 (M) Ditch procedure…

T+2:14 (M) No way!

T+2:17 (M) Give me your hand…

T+2:19 (M) You awake in there? I… I…

T+2:29 (M) Our Father… (unintelligible)…

T+2:42 (M) …hallowed be Thy name… (unintelligible).

T+2:57 (M) You…over there?

T+2:58 (M) The Lord is my shepherd, I shall… not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures… though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil… I will dwell in the house…

T+3:15 to end. None. Static, silence.


Rest in Peace
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75536489
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03/22/2019 04:34 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Here's the actual SCRIPT AFTER THE INITIAL EXPLOSION!

A secret NASA tape reveals that the crew of the shuttle Challenger not only survived the explosion that ripped the vessel apart; they screamed, cried, cursed and prayed for three hellish minutes before they slammed into the Atlantic and perished on January 28, 1986.

The tape is said to begin with a startled crewman screaming,”What happened? What happened? Oh God – No!” Screams and curses are heard – several crewmen begin to weep – and then others bid their families farewell.

Two minutes forty-five seconds later the tape ends. That’s when the shuttles crew compartment, which remained intact after the vessel exploded over the Atlantic, hit the ocean at over 2,000 miles per hour, instantly killing the crew.

“Cover up? Of course there was a coverup,” declared Robert Hotz, a member of the Presidential commission that investigated the disaster. “NASA can’t face the fact that they put these astronauts in a situation where they didn’t have adequate equipment to survive. NASA doesn’t give a damn about anything but covering it’s ass,” he said.

The official account released by NASA ends with shuttle pilot Michael Smith saying, “Uh-oh!” Some NASA employees have evidently heard more – much more. And they provided the rest of the account based on what they’ve discussed within NASA in the last five years. The astronauts had time and realized something was happening after the shuttle broke up.

“All shuttle astronauts carry personal recorders and the tape in question apparently came from Christa’s (McAuliffe), which was recovered after the shuttle disaster,” said Hotz. Jarvis was sitting beside her, and when he figured out what was happening he said, “Give me your hand.”

“NASA insists there’s nothing like that on tape but they’re talking about the mission tape, not Christa’s. So they’re not lying, but they’re not telling the truth, either.”

A journalist with close ties to NASA was even more emphatic, “There are persistent rumors, dating back to the disaster, that this tape is absolutely bone-chilling.”

The following transcript begins two seconds after NASA’s official version ends, with pilot Michael Smith saying, “Uh-oh!” Times from the moment of takeoff are shown in minutes and seconds and are approximate. The sex of the speaker is indicated by M or F.

T+1:15 (M) What happened? What happened? Oh God, no – no!

T+1:17 (F) Oh dear God.

T+1:18 (M) Turn on your air pack! Turn on your air…

T+1:20 (M) Can’t breathe… choking…

T+1:21 (M) Lift up your visor!

T+1:22 (M/F) (Screams.) It’s hot. (Sobs.) I can’t. Don’t tell me… God! Do it…now…

T+1:24 (M) I told them… I told them… Dammit! Resnik don’t…

T+1:27 (M) Take it easy! Move (unintelligible)…

T+1:28 (F) Don’t let me die like this. Not now. Not here…

T+1:31 (M) Your arm… no… I (extended garble, static)

T+1:36 (F) I’m… passing… out…

T+1:37 (M) We’re not dead yet.

T+1:40 (M) If you ever wanted (unintelligible) me a miracle… (unintelligible)… (screams)

T+1:41 (M) She’s… she’s… (garble) … damn!

T+1:50 (M) Can’t breathe…

T+1:51 (M/F) (screams) Jesus Christ! No!

T+1:54 (M) She’s out.

T+1:55 (M) Lucky… (unintelligible).

T+1:56 (M) God. The water… we’re dead! (screams)

T+2:00 (F) Goodbye (sobs)… I love you, I love you…

T+2:03 (M) Loosen up… loosen up…

T+2:07 (M) It’ll just be like a ditch landing…

T+2:09 (M) That’s right, think positive.

T+2:11 (M) Ditch procedure…

T+2:14 (M) No way!

T+2:17 (M) Give me your hand…

T+2:19 (M) You awake in there? I… I…

T+2:29 (M) Our Father… (unintelligible)…

T+2:42 (M) …hallowed be Thy name… (unintelligible).

T+2:57 (M) You…over there?

T+2:58 (M) The Lord is my shepherd, I shall… not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures… though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil… I will dwell in the house…

T+3:15 to end. None. Static, silence.


Rest in Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77452955


Ugh, just awful reading that.
Unbelievable that NASA didn't think it was necessary to build an escape option into the shuttle to protect the astronauts. They were alive and at least SOME of them had a real chance to survive. Three of the air boxes were used, which had to be turned on by the astronauts behind the ones who's air boxes were turned on. Just so upsetting to think that they had to go through the obvious hysteria associated with knowing what was happening. Very upsetting. verysad
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 05:43 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth


wow this is disturbing. i worked at hamilton standard when it was a part of utc. i never heard anyone question the o-ring theory.
 Quoting: Dukster


And this right here is what makes GLP priceless and why I will always keep coming back hoping for the days of old and just had a sweet taste of nostalgia
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76338311


People should always question the official story.

BTW, TWA 800 was shot down by a pair of OUR missiles that were being tested. They were launched from a sub. The 747 was 4000 feet below assigned altitude.

A tragic accident, but covered up by the craven MSM to protect Prez Clinton. Not that it was HIS fault. The Prez is never informed about Black World testing. It was a stupid mistake by a program manager.

They also lied to protect the Black World. There are plenty of leftist pols and civil servants who would love to attack our most secret programs. THAT I can understand.

How do I know this? I was briefed way back before the tests ever took place.
 Quoting: darth

My brother was on virginia beach and saw the missile launch on flight 800.he was working for a radio tower company up there at the time and bored,so went to the beach that night just to chill out.
As for the oring story,holy crap!
In radio tower construction,some times i had to add braces to increase ice load strength to them.any guy with a drill and bolts knows you dont do what nasa did.thats wack!
Ty op for the thread!
Daw G Onnit

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03/22/2019 05:47 AM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Gregory Jarvis, Christa McAuliffe, Ronald McNair, Ellison Onizuka, Judith Resnik, Dick Scobee, and Michael J. Smith.

RIP
darth

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03/22/2019 02:17 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Gregory Jarvis, Christa McAuliffe, Ronald McNair, Ellison Onizuka, Judith Resnik, Dick Scobee, and Michael J. Smith.

RIP
 Quoting: Daw G Onnit


Everybody in Downey KNEW there were risks to flying the Shuttle.

When it was being designed and built, they continually had to cut the budget while the end users continued to add requirements. That is a formula for disaster.

One of the old Apollo engineers told me, "When the budget cuts came, all of the "illities" such as survivability, reliability, maintainability, etc. went out the window. To build it RIGHT would have cost several times as much".

In 1987 when I was a Project Engineer, I was assigned to assess every risk on the Shuttle. It was a very long list.

Several lines said, "Risk understood. Risk quantified. No money in budget to avoid risk"

There are important lessons to be learned:

1. To build a truly safe , reusable Earth-to-low-orbit launch system is EXPENSIVE. I am thinking in the hundreds of billions of dollars. I am afraid that Bezos, et al, have badly underestimated what such a project requires. A few launch failures will put them BK.

2. If you want cheap launch, CUT the requirements. We used to joke that we could launch cheap if the payload could be placed on top of the bird and secured by a quarter turn to click into place. Simple makes cheap. Complex makes expensive and risky.

3. Success begins in the design phase. Don't slap band aids on problems. Test to destruction on every subsystem. Testing on the ground saves in the long run.

We WILL colonize and industrialize outer space, but the hurdle is FINANCIAL. It will cost trillions, but the payoff is an entire Solar System of resources for humanity.

Ad astra
ruser

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03/22/2019 03:15 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Grandfather (who worked at AeroJet (Rocketdyne)) called me the morning of the launch. He said it was "going to crash" and that "he - and all the engineers tried to stop the launch....They did all they could" - I was in college / and he said to watch it "blow up" on TV - and "don't let the kids see it" (he was concerned about schoolchildren / even us college kids / watching the launch. An author named Richard Cook wrote a book about the Challenger Disaster. My grandfather was never the same after that - (I bet he heard that recording). He knew many things, and told me secrets. He was a conspiracy theorist, and I take after the old man!

Last Edited by ruser on 03/22/2019 03:19 PM
ruser
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
bump
Baldrick

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03/22/2019 03:56 PM

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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Ol school posting

bump
Blackadder: Baldrick, how did you manage to find a turnip that cost £400 000?
Baldrick: Well, I had to haggle.
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 04:08 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
"Rumors" about this circulated back in the day. Too bad they turned out to be true.
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 04:09 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
^^among conspiracy researchers
Guess Who2

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03/22/2019 04:15 PM

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When was this video made? She says 1991 but I have never heard anything about this and I'm a space freak!!
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 04:17 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth

I was a machinist for many years. First off drilling new holes and tapping without flame hardening them would be an issue because the threads are soft and would simply pull out under huge stress. Also, if the holes do not line up that means it is out of round and how do o rings line up then since everything is from center and now out of round trying to line up the two sections. Sounds like bad decisions.
Many times in the shop instead of the engineers asking the machinists for advice because after all we are guys in the trenches with first hand knowledge the Engineers call off feeds and speeds on tooling that burns it right up. We used to shrug at some of the bright ideas engineers came up with and we new it was a fail from the get go before we were told just do it.
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
MaximusRex

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03/22/2019 04:34 PM

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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Here's the actual SCRIPT AFTER THE INITIAL EXPLOSION!

A secret NASA tape reveals that the crew of the shuttle Challenger not only survived the explosion that ripped the vessel apart; they screamed, cried, cursed and prayed for three hellish minutes before they slammed into the Atlantic and perished on January 28, 1986.

The tape is said to begin with a startled crewman screaming,”What happened? What happened? Oh God – No!” Screams and curses are heard – several crewmen begin to weep – and then others bid their families farewell.

Two minutes forty-five seconds later the tape ends. That’s when the shuttles crew compartment, which remained intact after the vessel exploded over the Atlantic, hit the ocean at over 2,000 miles per hour, instantly killing the crew.

“Cover up? Of course there was a coverup,” declared Robert Hotz, a member of the Presidential commission that investigated the disaster. “NASA can’t face the fact that they put these astronauts in a situation where they didn’t have adequate equipment to survive. NASA doesn’t give a damn about anything but covering it’s ass,” he said.

The official account released by NASA ends with shuttle pilot Michael Smith saying, “Uh-oh!” Some NASA employees have evidently heard more – much more. And they provided the rest of the account based on what they’ve discussed within NASA in the last five years. The astronauts had time and realized something was happening after the shuttle broke up.

“All shuttle astronauts carry personal recorders and the tape in question apparently came from Christa’s (McAuliffe), which was recovered after the shuttle disaster,” said Hotz. Jarvis was sitting beside her, and when he figured out what was happening he said, “Give me your hand.”

“NASA insists there’s nothing like that on tape but they’re talking about the mission tape, not Christa’s. So they’re not lying, but they’re not telling the truth, either.”

A journalist with close ties to NASA was even more emphatic, “There are persistent rumors, dating back to the disaster, that this tape is absolutely bone-chilling.”

The following transcript begins two seconds after NASA’s official version ends, with pilot Michael Smith saying, “Uh-oh!” Times from the moment of takeoff are shown in minutes and seconds and are approximate. The sex of the speaker is indicated by M or F.

T+1:15 (M) What happened? What happened? Oh God, no – no!

T+1:17 (F) Oh dear God.

T+1:18 (M) Turn on your air pack! Turn on your air…

T+1:20 (M) Can’t breathe… choking…

T+1:21 (M) Lift up your visor!

T+1:22 (M/F) (Screams.) It’s hot. (Sobs.) I can’t. Don’t tell me… God! Do it…now…

T+1:24 (M) I told them… I told them… Dammit! Resnik don’t…

T+1:27 (M) Take it easy! Move (unintelligible)…

T+1:28 (F) Don’t let me die like this. Not now. Not here…

T+1:31 (M) Your arm… no… I (extended garble, static)

T+1:36 (F) I’m… passing… out…

T+1:37 (M) We’re not dead yet.

T+1:40 (M) If you ever wanted (unintelligible) me a miracle… (unintelligible)… (screams)

T+1:41 (M) She’s… she’s… (garble) … damn!

T+1:50 (M) Can’t breathe…

T+1:51 (M/F) (screams) Jesus Christ! No!

T+1:54 (M) She’s out.

T+1:55 (M) Lucky… (unintelligible).

T+1:56 (M) God. The water… we’re dead! (screams)

T+2:00 (F) Goodbye (sobs)… I love you, I love you…

T+2:03 (M) Loosen up… loosen up…

T+2:07 (M) It’ll just be like a ditch landing…

T+2:09 (M) That’s right, think positive.

T+2:11 (M) Ditch procedure…

T+2:14 (M) No way!

T+2:17 (M) Give me your hand…

T+2:19 (M) You awake in there? I… I…

T+2:29 (M) Our Father… (unintelligible)…

T+2:42 (M) …hallowed be Thy name… (unintelligible).

T+2:57 (M) You…over there?

T+2:58 (M) The Lord is my shepherd, I shall… not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures… though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil… I will dwell in the house…

T+3:15 to end. None. Static, silence.


Rest in Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77452955


This transcript has been proven false a million times. This started as part of an AOL chain mail almost 30 years ago. With that said the crew did survive before impact into the ocean. There's a detailed video taking the entire launch by second up until after it explodes .. tracing the crew module as it descends along with the other pieces.

Last Edited by MaximusRex on 03/22/2019 04:38 PM
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 06:07 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
This transcript has been proven false a million times. This started as part of an AOL chain mail almost 30 years ago. With that said the crew did survive before impact into the ocean. There's a detailed video taking the entire launch by second up until after it explodes .. tracing the crew module as it descends along with the other pieces.
 Quoting: MaximusRex


Thnaks for that.

But give us links

Grade: C-
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03/22/2019 06:24 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
Space Shuttle Hoax -Challenger Disaster Scripted Acting

Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 07:04 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth


So on the real cause of the Challenger a lot of people caught hell and were fired for the claimed o-ring cause and some fellow got a $10K bonus for creating the real cause.

Then on Columbia one center caught total hell for being the sole culprit while another center was responsible for flying the orbiter with a weakened wing.

YES - NEVER trust the government of MSM!
Katipo2017

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03/22/2019 07:32 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
They put them in trash bags and trash cans....my god, that tore me up....verysad
 Quoting: cosmicgypsy


They could have treated them with a bit more dignity, but I accept it, if the bags and bins, were necessary to sneak them past the media.

Last Edited by Katipo2017 on 03/22/2019 07:33 PM
Hostess Cupcake

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03/22/2019 07:34 PM

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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
I was in 5th grade. Another traumatizing event. Then came Flight 255. I'm still messed up.
"Back from the dead bitch with a swarm of locusts." ~ My Psychosis


"Debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers.

This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world.

By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished."

~ US Banker's Magazine, August 25 1924
England
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03/22/2019 07:48 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
A Colombian Enterprise to Endeavor for the Discovery of Atlantis… and all Challengers shall be destroyed.

There's your O'rings for you.
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 07:49 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
OK, I watched enough.

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I worked most of my career in Downey, CA at the company that was the prime contractor for the Shuttle.

I was proud of Rocco Petrone, our Division General Manager, when I found out that he told NASA that morning of the launch, "IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO LAUNCH THE BIRD AT 25F WHEN THERE ARE 6 FOOT ICICLES HANGING OFF OF IT!"

To imagine Rocco, he was West Point Class of 1939, a football player, and hard as nails. Imagine the Godfather but in better physical condition, a very intimidating man.

I, like everyone else, believed the accident commission findings that the O rings failed allowing the burn through.

Then, in 1999, I met an engineer who worked for United Technologies at the time of the accident. When he heard that the commission would report that the O rings were at fault, he went to Rogers, the head of the Commission.

He explained that on a previous launch, one of the SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) had a hard landing in the Atlantic.

They disassembled the SRB and Thiokol refurbished the sections in Utah.

When they tried to reassemble the SRB sections, one was bent out of round. IIRC, the segments are held together by 1" bolts on 4" centers. An engineer suggested plugging the holes that did not line up and drilling NEW holes in the middle for the bolts.

The NASA Supervisor got a $10,000 award for saving money by not scrapping the damaged SRB segment.

They did NOT perform a structural analysis of the weakened joint.

Upon pressurization of the SRB, that section ripped apart like a perforated sheet of paper.

You can see the puff of smoke on the launch video from the tear.

The flame hit the attach assembly and weakened it like a cutting torch. They hit a wind shear and the SRB broke off.

The engineer reporting the new holes was told, "But we already had a press conference blaming the O rings. NASA would lose credibility if we change our findings. Dr. Feynman and other notables would be embarrassed".

The story did not change.

YES, we knew that the astronauts were alive but badly injured until they hit the ocean at 600 MPH.

The Crew Cabin on the Shuttle was built like a brick shithouse, a marvelous tribute to the welders and craftsmen of the United Auto Workers (yep, they built the Shuttle in Downey). The fuel from the External Tank detonated like a small nuke and the Crew Cabin survived intact.

I also know why we lost Shuttle Columbia. I was in the meeting when we told NASA that the leading edge of the wing on Columbia had become dangerously weak, so weak you could punch a hole in it with your finger. As far as I know, it was not replaced because the money in the budget was not there.

The ice that hit the wing and knocked a hole in it was a well known danger. What is not generally known is that NASA started using an inferior adhesive to hold the foam on the External Tank. The original, excellent adhesive used fluorocarbons and someone at the EPA thought it would destroy the ozone layer.

So, what have we learned? NEVER trust the government or MSM. And the EPA is a bunch of idiot greens.

BTW, the drawings showing the modified SRB were deep sixed immediately. No evidence. No one talked.
 Quoting: darth


wow this is disturbing. i worked at hamilton standard when it was a part of utc. i never heard anyone question the o-ring theory.
 Quoting: Dukster


And this right here is what makes GLP priceless and why I will always keep coming back hoping for the days of old and just had a sweet taste of nostalgia
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76338311

5a
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 07:52 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
It was the very first live fire exercise of a DEW Directed Energy Wespon by the Air Force

We blew it up!!
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2019 07:52 PM
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
"NEVER trust the government or MSM."

You got that right. Anyone who does is an idiot. Haven't trusted them since 9/11. You knew it long before. Wake up, people. They aren't trustworthy!
REYMEGA TRUTH

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03/22/2019 07:53 PM

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It was the very first live fire exercise of a DEW Directed Energy Wespon by the Air Force

We blew it up!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76424728


And Columbia too?
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Now It Can Be Told - Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster Investigation
what a huge reality hack