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Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76254102
Slovakia
05/16/2019 07:41 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


Women are too careless in dealing with males, their fault.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76254102



Get the fuck out of here sicko muzzie scum.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


Who clicks the internet sites for you, stupid.
Bananafighter  (OP)

User ID: 73106219
United States
05/16/2019 07:41 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I wanted to bring about a discussion to force people into considering the multiple factors that come into play.

Failed contraception. Should they be forced to keep a child they didn't plan on having and tried to prevent?

Learning a child may be born with physical of mental handicaps. Quality of life is brought into play here. Should they be forced to bring a child into the world that will never be able to care for themselves?

The conversation is always, it's a womans choice. Period. Or it's a human life. Period.

I think before lawmakers decide what should and should not be done they need to consider all aspects of the unwanted pregnancies.

You certainly have women out there who have had multiple abortions. You have woman who also try to use pregnancy as a weapon to trap a man. You have men (few) who do the same but a blanket yes or no conversation is false. I well thought out platform needs to be brought up and addressed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29218324
United States
05/16/2019 07:41 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76254102
Slovakia
05/16/2019 07:42 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I predict laws banning abortion will be very much like the Prohibition laws against alcohol and will be repealed a few years after enacting them.
 Quoting: 3643297


Yes, without morals restored there is ending to killing, not only the children.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29218324
United States
05/16/2019 07:43 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
If a woman has a right to abortion, why doesn’t a man have a right to a “financial abortion”?

Why does a woman have a right to determine a man’s life, but not vice versa?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652726
Australia
05/16/2019 07:43 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
While I believe everyone has rights to over their body, I would argue that the babies body belongs to the baby - and no one has the right to murder them. Just because the baby is growing 'within' the mother's body - doesn't mean the baby doesn't have its own heart beating, own limbs and own soul and identity.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76254102
Slovakia
05/16/2019 07:44 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I wanted to bring about a discussion to force people into considering the multiple factors that come into play.

Failed contraception. Should they be forced to keep a child they didn't plan on having and tried to prevent?

Learning a child may be born with physical of mental handicaps. Quality of life is brought into play here. Should they be forced to bring a child into the world that will never be able to care for themselves?

The conversation is always, it's a womans choice. Period. Or it's a human life. Period.

I think before lawmakers decide what should and should not be done they need to consider all aspects of the unwanted pregnancies.

You certainly have women out there who have had multiple abortions. You have woman who also try to use pregnancy as a weapon to trap a man. You have men (few) who do the same but a blanket yes or no conversation is false. I well thought out platform needs to be brought up and addressed.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


The main problem is you people are too careless with sex, killing not just the fetuses but yourselves as well, spiritually, then with coming in years physically as the illnesses spread.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76254102
Slovakia
05/16/2019 07:46 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I predict laws banning abortion will be very much like the Prohibition laws against alcohol and will be repealed a few years after enacting them.
 Quoting: 3643297


Yes, without morals restored there is no* ending to killing, not only for the children.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76254102


*autocorrected typo
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652726
Australia
05/16/2019 07:48 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
If a woman has a right to abortion, why doesn’t a man have a right to a “financial abortion”?

Why does a woman have a right to determine a man’s life, but not vice versa?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324


lmao

good point
NDFarm

User ID: 75932358
United States
05/16/2019 07:50 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
You Christian's have no problem with God killing all the children and fetuses through out the bible. But you're right it shouldn't be used as birth control.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652439
05/16/2019 07:51 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I've never heard of any woman using abortion as a form of birth control.

No one would choose surgery, rather than taking the pill or using other birth control methods.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


i have personally seen this on more than one occasion. not with any woman i had anything to do with, but through acquaintances.
 Quoting: jj johns


There have been threads here of women bragging about aborting their babies & saying that was their birth control.
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan



That is sad to hear. In my personal experience, work related, I have found that the majority of woman, who for various reasons, have had to make the choice of terminating, or not, are actually traumatised, not wanting anyone to know about it, and never speak to anyone about it again (except in counselling, which by the way, is compulsory here in Oz, when wanting an abortion, it comes under 'mental health')

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 07:57 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
All Life is One (1)

All life is one -
from the heart of water

hearing light,
music

[link to www.thehumangenome.co.uk]

of the Word -

conjuring amoebae
with the art of chemistry,

spirit of creativity,
molecules of stars;

to the germ of LUCA,
Last Universal Common Ancestor -

master-pupil, staggering apprentice
of life’s holy principles;

artistry of life’s rebellion
against emptiness; nothing

lighting the complete darkness,
fate of burning planets,

but blue earth,
wet as an eye.

‘…the view which most naturalists entertain, and which I formerly entertained – namely, that each species has been independently created – is erroneous.’ Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, 1859

‘A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space.’ Albert Einstein

‘And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.’ Genesis 11, The Bible
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 07:59 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
[link to theconversation.com]

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 07:59 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
LOL.

Tell a man he can't have sex... and what happens?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652439
05/16/2019 08:00 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:02 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:03 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77239290
United States
05/16/2019 08:04 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
But....but.....ma reproductive rights! Black people! Wwwaaaaahhhhh!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:05 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
''The origins of the name "Poseidon" are unclear. One theory breaks it down into an element meaning "husband" or "lord" ''
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:06 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Another theory interprets the second element as related to the word *δᾶϝον dâwon, "water"; this would make *Posei-dawōn into the master of waters.[11] There is also the possibility that the word has Pre-Greek origin.
StriScoLand

User ID: 31936281
United States
05/16/2019 08:07 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


No that is not true...lying ass bitch.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 70334927
United States
05/16/2019 08:07 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Where is the choice for the baby?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76254102


I don't get the question. Either the adults take responsibility for their actions or they don't have sex. Are you implying that it's not the babies choice to be born into the world? If you are then that's insane. None of us decided that. That's how life, procreation and nature works. You are born into the world, live, grow and die. It's called life.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


You live in a very black and white world don't you? You don't know how life works and you can't speak for any of us besides yourself. People like you are the reason the courts are going to shoot all these bills down that are testing Roe vs Wade
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:07 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:08 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


Right. Some men assume that the everyday normal chick just has sex and aborts. Not true. There are ALWAYS circumstances with abortion. Usually violence and death to the woman.

Pregnant women are the target of homocide often. Even in high profile cases like Drew Peterson, and in some cases the partner/husband will kill the small children in the household too.

Being pregnant makes women vulnerable to attack, this is the basis for honor killing as well. And most men don't realize that their sperm is alive and capable of creating life because of sexual immaturity, which is the main reason for abortion.
3643297

User ID: 76832232
United States
05/16/2019 08:08 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
....

2. The rights of the fetus; currently, there is a tremendous inconsistency. In a case where a pregnant woman is murdered, the fetus is accorded the “rights” of a person, and the murderer is charged with TWO counts, one for each “person”. Yet in the case of abortion, the fetus has no rights. Which is it??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324


The legal reason for the difference is that the woman has the right of control over her body which includes fetus. in murder or negligence, the fetus was killed against her consent or will therefore criminal charges or lawsuit can be brought against the perpetrator.
In the case of abortion, the woman gave consent therefore no law was broken and no murder or wrongful death laws would apply.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 70334927
United States
05/16/2019 08:09 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
One of the best responses I have read.
This will get buried, but I'll say it anyway.

To the pro-life people out there: I understand how you feel. Honestly. This is such a difficult moral issue, and I know there are plenty of people who feel like murder is finally illegal. I get it.

But there is so so much more to this than the question of one life or two. In the United States, you have to choose to be an organ donor. You can't even use a corpse to save someone's life unless that person gave explicit consent when they were alive. You certainly can't force a living person to give up an organ to save a life, even if both people would walk away alive. That is the concept of bodily autonomy.

Just consider for a moment the incredible cost of pregnancy and birth. Your body physically changes in dozens of ways. You probably experience nausea, dizziness, swelling, back pain, constipation, mood swings. You have to change what you eat, what you drink, how you move, what you do. You may be unable to work or go to school. You may be let go for spurious reasons. You may find it difficult to find people to hire you. You will need ultrasounds, checkups -- health insurance. You will go through the most physically painful experience of your life, where in 70% of cases the baby literally tears its way out of you. You will owe the hospital thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars. Your body will physically never be the same.

Now imagine you never chose this. You never wanted this. But you have no choice.

How can someone end up pregnant and not want to be? There are a myriad of scenarios, all with moral implications. Maybe you have a steady partner and you are using birth control, but the birth control didn't work. Maybe the condom broke. Maybe he couldn't pull out in time. Maybe you never learned about birth control because your school only taught you about abstinence. You didn't intend it, but here you are.

And then worse. Maybe he lied and took off the condom when you wouldn't notice. Maybe he drugged you and raped your unconscious body, or maybe he raped you while you were awake, so the sounds and the pain and the smell is seared into your brain. Maybe he is your teacher, your pastor, your police officer. Maybe he is your brother, your uncle. Maybe he is your father. It happens so much more often than any of us want to think or talk about. And now the seed, the DNA of the person who violated you, is growing inside you, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

So you give birth, unprepared and unwilling. Because you didn't want or plan for this pregnancy, chances are you didn't take care of yourself as well as is ideal, and chances are you are not providing an ideal life for this child. Maybe you drank alcohol before you knew you were pregnant, or you drank alcohol on purpose to try to kill your baby. Maybe you smoked. Maybe you are addicted to opiates and now your child will be too. Maybe you are poor -- the cost of childbirth didn't help -- and have no means to buy food, diapers, cribs, or other supplies for your baby. Maybe you are a felon or are otherwise ineligible for SNAP or WIC. Maybe your partner beats you and will beat your child, but you can't leave because then you would be homeless. Maybe you are homeless. Maybe your partner left you. How will you get a job? Who will take care of the baby? If you are in school, you almost certainly have to drop out. The effects of neglect, of abuse, of malnourishment, of fetal alcohol syndrome, of neonatal abstinence syndrome, all of these have profoundly negative effects on the child for the rest of their lives.

It is understandable why some pregnant women become desperate, and what a desperate person can do can be horrifying for everyone involved. To quote a clinic administrator (from the 2016 documentary Trapped):

I told her you can come to San Antonio and we can help you here, and she said, "I can't, I don't have the means, there's no way I can get to San Antonio. So what if I tell you what I have in my kitchen cabinet, and you can tell me what I can do."

I doubt anyone's read this far. It's for my own catharsis anyway. But given that you can't obligate someone to give up their bodily autonomy to save someone's life in other cases, why is this, pregnancy and childbirth, something that will affect someone for the rest of their life, why is this mandated? Why should a mass of cells without even a brain have the right to require of a living woman what we cannot even demand of a corpse? So many women who have had abortions and later have children express the relief and gratitude that they didn't have a child when they weren't ready. Because of their choice, they were able to save their own lives and bring new life into the world for whom they could properly care.

Now, because of this law, thousands will suffer. The Alabama lawmakers have already handed down their sentences. They had a choice. Now we do not."
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:10 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Where is the choice for the baby?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76254102


I don't get the question. Either the adults take responsibility for their actions or they don't have sex. Are you implying that it's not the babies choice to be born into the world? If you are then that's insane. None of us decided that. That's how life, procreation and nature works. You are born into the world, live, grow and die. It's called life.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


You live in a very black and white world don't you? You don't know how life works and you can't speak for any of us besides yourself. People like you are the reason the courts are going to shoot all these bills down that are testing Roe vs Wade
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70334927


yes, it's the understanding of rights and the laws of rights that is the issue. not opinions of when individuals determine their knowledge of biology and physiology.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:10 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Icebear

User ID: 75472325
Canada
05/16/2019 08:11 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Abortion is the only issue that works for demokkkrats. We need to get the issue settled once and for all time and out of US politics.

In fact the abortion issue is primarily responsible for having kept the demokkkrat party alive over the last 40 years so that any evil ascribed to abortion has to be measured against all of the evil which the dem party creates.
In SE Tx, not Canada
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:12 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
One of the best responses I have read.
This will get buried, but I'll say it anyway.

To the pro-life people out there: I understand how you feel. Honestly. This is such a difficult moral issue, and I know there are plenty of people who feel like murder is finally illegal. I get it.

But there is so so much more to this than the question of one life or two. In the United States, you have to choose to be an organ donor. You can't even use a corpse to save someone's life unless that person gave explicit consent when they were alive. You certainly can't force a living person to give up an organ to save a life, even if both people would walk away alive. That is the concept of bodily autonomy.

Just consider for a moment the incredible cost of pregnancy and birth. Your body physically changes in dozens of ways. You probably experience nausea, dizziness, swelling, back pain, constipation, mood swings. You have to change what you eat, what you drink, how you move, what you do. You may be unable to work or go to school. You may be let go for spurious reasons. You may find it difficult to find people to hire you. You will need ultrasounds, checkups -- health insurance. You will go through the most physically painful experience of your life, where in 70% of cases the baby literally tears its way out of you. You will owe the hospital thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars. Your body will physically never be the same.

Now imagine you never chose this. You never wanted this. But you have no choice.

How can someone end up pregnant and not want to be? There are a myriad of scenarios, all with moral implications. Maybe you have a steady partner and you are using birth control, but the birth control didn't work. Maybe the condom broke. Maybe he couldn't pull out in time. Maybe you never learned about birth control because your school only taught you about abstinence. You didn't intend it, but here you are.

And then worse. Maybe he lied and took off the condom when you wouldn't notice. Maybe he drugged you and raped your unconscious body, or maybe he raped you while you were awake, so the sounds and the pain and the smell is seared into your brain. Maybe he is your teacher, your pastor, your police officer. Maybe he is your brother, your uncle. Maybe he is your father. It happens so much more often than any of us want to think or talk about. And now the seed, the DNA of the person who violated you, is growing inside you, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

So you give birth, unprepared and unwilling. Because you didn't want or plan for this pregnancy, chances are you didn't take care of yourself as well as is ideal, and chances are you are not providing an ideal life for this child. Maybe you drank alcohol before you knew you were pregnant, or you drank alcohol on purpose to try to kill your baby. Maybe you smoked. Maybe you are addicted to opiates and now your child will be too. Maybe you are poor -- the cost of childbirth didn't help -- and have no means to buy food, diapers, cribs, or other supplies for your baby. Maybe you are a felon or are otherwise ineligible for SNAP or WIC. Maybe your partner beats you and will beat your child, but you can't leave because then you would be homeless. Maybe you are homeless. Maybe your partner left you. How will you get a job? Who will take care of the baby? If you are in school, you almost certainly have to drop out. The effects of neglect, of abuse, of malnourishment, of fetal alcohol syndrome, of neonatal abstinence syndrome, all of these have profoundly negative effects on the child for the rest of their lives.

It is understandable why some pregnant women become desperate, and what a desperate person can do can be horrifying for everyone involved. To quote a clinic administrator (from the 2016 documentary Trapped):

I told her you can come to San Antonio and we can help you here, and she said, "I can't, I don't have the means, there's no way I can get to San Antonio. So what if I tell you what I have in my kitchen cabinet, and you can tell me what I can do."

I doubt anyone's read this far. It's for my own catharsis anyway. But given that you can't obligate someone to give up their bodily autonomy to save someone's life in other cases, why is this, pregnancy and childbirth, something that will affect someone for the rest of their life, why is this mandated? Why should a mass of cells without even a brain have the right to require of a living woman what we cannot even demand of a corpse? So many women who have had abortions and later have children express the relief and gratitude that they didn't have a child when they weren't ready. Because of their choice, they were able to save their own lives and bring new life into the world for whom they could properly care.

Now, because of this law, thousands will suffer. The Alabama lawmakers have already handed down their sentences. They had a choice. Now we do not."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70334927



I read that far.
Women will seek out abortion if it illegal or not and they will die from illegal abortion. Fact.

Lack of choice is hegemony, a step closer to communism.