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Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.

 
StriScoLand

User ID: 31936281
United States
05/16/2019 08:12 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
...


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


Right. Some men assume that the everyday normal chick just has sex and aborts. Not true. There are ALWAYS circumstances with abortion. Usually violence and death to the woman.

Pregnant women are the target of homocide often. Even in high profile cases like Drew Peterson, and in some cases the partner/husband will kill the small children in the household too.

Being pregnant makes women vulnerable to attack, this is the basis for honor killing as well. And most men don't realize that their sperm is alive and capable of creating life because of sexual immaturity, which is the main reason for abortion.
 Quoting: MissCleo

I guarantee the percentage is much of violence and death is very small compared to the total. So quit spreading lies to justify the killing of human beings.
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:13 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Abortion is the only issue that works for demokkkrats. We need to get the issue settled once and for all time and out of US politics.

In fact the abortion issue is primarily responsible for having kept the demokkkrat party alive over the last 40 years so that any evil ascribed to abortion has to be measured against all of the evil which the dem party creates.
 Quoting: Icebear


Medical coverage in politics. deadly combo.
Who do the doctors work for? The patient or the politicians?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75891982
United States
05/16/2019 08:13 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I wanted to bring about a discussion to force people into considering the multiple factors that come into play.

Failed contraception. Should they be forced to keep a child they didn't plan on having and tried to prevent?

Learning a child may be born with physical of mental handicaps. Quality of life is brought into play here. Should they be forced to bring a child into the world that will never be able to care for themselves?

The conversation is always, it's a womans choice. Period. Or it's a human life. Period.

I think before lawmakers decide what should and should not be done they need to consider all aspects of the unwanted pregnancies.

You certainly have women out there who have had multiple abortions. You have woman who also try to use pregnancy as a weapon to trap a man. You have men (few) who do the same but a blanket yes or no conversation is false. I well thought out platform needs to be brought up and addressed.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


The conversation is actually more about Individual Liberty’s at this point. It’s come out in the open now that Christians are being forced to pay for abortions AND contraceptives. That’s no fair. Even if we toss out their right to NOT violate their beliefs how can we reconcile anyone being Forced to pay so the other can have sex? It’s preposterous!
And since the left went to crazy town talking bout killing already born “people” at that point, the right was finally made to respond to this issue
Pushback, it’s whats for breakfast for the Dems now and it’s all their fault for forcing the issue
Planned parenthood being caught red handed selling baby parts certainly didn’t help!

banana2
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77633458
United Kingdom
05/16/2019 08:14 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
while I agree that abortion is not a form of contraceptive and is being increasingly used as one

I don't think banning all abortions is the answer

rape , incest- a woman has to be allowed to abort- end of

I used to be 100% pro-life


but when I see the feckless mothers who keep a child because of 'cultural ' pressures not to abort and I see the miserable life that child is subjected to

as feckless women don't usually make champion mothers

and a cycle of poor parenting is rekindled - taught to another child , who becomes another feckless mother


is abortion not a necessary evil to try and control the numbers of unwanted children who are poorly cared for and cost society a packet in their own way , further down the line ?
MissCleo

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05/16/2019 08:14 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
...


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


Right. Some men assume that the everyday normal chick just has sex and aborts. Not true. There are ALWAYS circumstances with abortion. Usually violence and death to the woman.

Pregnant women are the target of homocide often. Even in high profile cases like Drew Peterson, and in some cases the partner/husband will kill the small children in the household too.

Being pregnant makes women vulnerable to attack, this is the basis for honor killing as well. And most men don't realize that their sperm is alive and capable of creating life because of sexual immaturity, which is the main reason for abortion.
 Quoting: MissCleo

I guarantee the percentage is much of violence and death is very small compared to the total. So quit spreading lies to justify the killing of human beings.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


I suppose you aren't a woman and have to face this violence daily, eh?
As a survivor I can tell you that I saw many women in the sheriff's office constantly!!!

What is your experience? Or are you just a Right Fighter who wants to control my life?
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:14 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
while I agree that abortion is not a form of contraceptive and is being increasingly used as one

I don't think banning all abortions is the answer

rape , incest- a woman has to be allowed to abort- end of

I used to be 100% pro-life


but when I see the feckless mothers who keep a child because of 'cultural ' pressures not to abort and I see the miserable life that child is subjected to

as feckless women don't usually make champion mothers

and a cycle of poor parenting is rekindled - taught to another child , who becomes another feckless mother


is abortion not a necessary evil to try and control the numbers of unwanted children who are poorly cared for and cost society a packet in their own way , further down the line ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77633458


Simple solution: Men shouldn't ejaculate. All pregnancies are caused by ejaculation. Simple.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652439
05/16/2019 08:15 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
...


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


No that is not true...lying ass bitch.
 Quoting: StriScoLand



Go into a womans shelter, then report back to me how many are pregnant.

.
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:15 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I wanted to bring about a discussion to force people into considering the multiple factors that come into play.

Failed contraception. Should they be forced to keep a child they didn't plan on having and tried to prevent?

Learning a child may be born with physical of mental handicaps. Quality of life is brought into play here. Should they be forced to bring a child into the world that will never be able to care for themselves?

The conversation is always, it's a womans choice. Period. Or it's a human life. Period.

I think before lawmakers decide what should and should not be done they need to consider all aspects of the unwanted pregnancies.

You certainly have women out there who have had multiple abortions. You have woman who also try to use pregnancy as a weapon to trap a man. You have men (few) who do the same but a blanket yes or no conversation is false. I well thought out platform needs to be brought up and addressed.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


Don't have sex. period. simple.

But try to tell men that they can't have sex... what happens?
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:18 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
...


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


No that is not true...lying ass bitch.
 Quoting: StriScoLand



Go into a womans shelter, then report back to me how many are pregnant.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


That poster has a foul mouth that shows the typical disregard for women. Misogyny is rampant in abortion discussion. Some men just hate women, the "weaker" sex who should be beaten and make sandwiches for toxic men. Shame.

Why aren't these men standing up for women and telling dudes not to rape and use violence against women? It's so obvious that the culture of toxic men is... toxic.
StriScoLand

User ID: 31936281
United States
05/16/2019 08:18 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
...



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


Right. Some men assume that the everyday normal chick just has sex and aborts. Not true. There are ALWAYS circumstances with abortion. Usually violence and death to the woman.

Pregnant women are the target of homocide often. Even in high profile cases like Drew Peterson, and in some cases the partner/husband will kill the small children in the household too.

Being pregnant makes women vulnerable to attack, this is the basis for honor killing as well. And most men don't realize that their sperm is alive and capable of creating life because of sexual immaturity, which is the main reason for abortion.
 Quoting: MissCleo

I guarantee the percentage is much of violence and death is very small compared to the total. So quit spreading lies to justify the killing of human beings.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


I suppose you aren't a woman and have to face this violence daily, eh?
As a survivor I can tell you that I saw many women in the sheriff's office constantly!!!

What is your experience? Or are you just a Right Fighter who wants to control my life?
 Quoting: MissCleo

No one cares if you were in the sheriffs office. Quit using a small percentage of this happening to women to justify killing of millions. You are as bad as the people who are killing these abortion doctors to justify themselves.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77649190
South Africa
05/16/2019 08:19 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Abortion is murder. Plain and simple as that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77582943
United States
05/16/2019 08:20 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I am absolutely against abortion...however, 99 years in prison, and the rape cases, will backlash very Seriously on the conservative communities. The elections are Not the Only thing. I live in a catholuc conservative community and know well of the battle going on within the Catholuc hierarchy. The conservative minority will lose any chance to promote its otherwise just ideas, if it doesnt somehow accept for a fact it lives in 21 century.
So, No to abortion, but No to the conservative radicalism as well! It simply doesnt serve the cause.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75758325
United States
05/16/2019 08:21 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Blah blah blah

The moral police are all always high and mighty until they need one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62817156


did u even read it


OP made a lot of sense


unless you're one of those OP listed as not interested in being a responsible adult and adhering to the consequences of your choices..in which case...your comment makes sense.
StriScoLand

User ID: 31936281
United States
05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I am absolutely against abortion...however, 99 years in prison, and the rape cases, will backlash very Seriously on the conservative communities. The elections are Not the Only thing. I live in a catholuc conservative community and know well of the battle going on within the Catholuc hierarchy. The conservative minority will lose any chance to promote its otherwise just ideas, if it doesnt somehow accept for a fact it lives in 21 century.
So, No to abortion, but No to the conservative radicalism as well! It simply doesnt serve the cause.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77582943


Yeah but this happens when liberals take it to the other extreme. The strong man rises to stop the liberal mind set and it is usually an extreme viewpoint in the other direction.
Icebear

User ID: 75472325
Canada
05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Abortion is the only issue that works for demokkkrats. We need to get the issue settled once and for all time and out of US politics.

In fact the abortion issue is primarily responsible for having kept the demokkkrat party alive over the last 40 years so that any evil ascribed to abortion has to be measured against all of the evil which the dem party creates.
 Quoting: Icebear


Medical coverage in politics. deadly combo.
Who do the doctors work for? The patient or the politicians?
 Quoting: MissCleo


What are you going to say when the next stinking demokkkrat who the abortion issue puts into the white house starts a thermonuclear war?
In SE Tx, not Canada
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


I completely agree. Rape and Incest (which is arguably rape itself) and the mothers health should be the only factors taken into consideration when talking abortion. Not because you had unprotected sex and don't want a kid. Don't have unprotected sex and guess what, no kid.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


you are suggesting a more streamlined approach to the organization of causations and legally backed reasonings for abortion. Could be as simple as just a few check boxes on a form
TruthTeller
User ID: 77020206
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05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
a woman makes a choice when she opens her legs. THAT is the choice.

If I get married to a wh0re, do I have a choice to kill her so she doesn't divorce me and rob me of my wealth?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652745
United States
05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Blah blah blah

The moral police are all always high and mighty
until they need one.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62817156


We ALL will answer for our sins if they
are not washed away by the Blood of Calvary.


PAUL:

1 CORINTHIANS 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous
shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived:
neither fornicators,
nor idolaters,
nor adulterers,
nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves,
nor covetous,
nor drunkards,
nor revilers,
nor extortioners,
shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such WERE some of you:
but ye are washed,
but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified
in the name of the Lord Jesus,
and by the Spirit of our God.


JESUS:

Revelation 21
7 He that overcometh
shall inherit all things;
and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful,
and unbelieving,
and the abominable,
and murderers,
and whoremongers,
and sorcerers,
and idolaters,
and all liars,
shall have their part
in the lake which burneth
with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.


How can we overcome?
How can WE SINNERS be righteous enough?
(we can't by our "good" works)
How can we be saved?
How can we overcome?

Only through the Blood of Jesus.
NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!


3643297

User ID: 76832232
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05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I wanted to bring about a discussion to force people into considering the multiple factors that come into play.

Failed contraception. Should they be forced to keep a child they didn't plan on having and tried to prevent?

Learning a child may be born with physical of mental handicaps. Quality of life is brought into play here. Should they be forced to bring a child into the world that will never be able to care for themselves?

The conversation is always, it's a womans choice. Period. Or it's a human life. Period.

I think before lawmakers decide what should and should not be done they need to consider all aspects of the unwanted pregnancies.

You certainly have women out there who have had multiple abortions. You have woman who also try to use pregnancy as a weapon to trap a man. You have men (few) who do the same but a blanket yes or no conversation is false. I well thought out platform needs to be brought up and addressed.
 Quoting: Bananafighter


The conversation is actually more about Individual Liberty’s at this point. It’s come out in the open now that Christians are being forced to pay for abortions AND contraceptives. That’s no fair. Even if we toss out their right to NOT violate their beliefs how can we reconcile anyone being Forced to pay so the other can have sex? It’s preposterous!
And since the left went to crazy town talking bout killing already born “people” at that point, the right was finally made to respond to this issue
Pushback, it’s whats for breakfast for the Dems now and it’s all their fault for forcing the issue
Planned parenthood being caught red handed selling baby parts certainly didn’t help!

banana2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75891982


Very good point. Both sides need to respect the other side’s point of view or else more of the Alabama type actions will result.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73848670
Canada
05/16/2019 08:23 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Our whole society has to change around this issue. It cuts so deep. Men do deserve a say. Women deserve support (really the baby deserves the support). STFU about the welfare mothers if you want to outlaw abortion. Cause a lot of men don't give a shit.
MissCleo

User ID: 77082640
United States
05/16/2019 08:24 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.

I've never heard of any woman using abortion as a form of birth control.

No one would choose surgery, rather than taking the pill or using other birth control methods.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76254102


Well because women don't use abortion as birth control. That's something dreamed up by sexually immature people and pro-lifers as a form of verbal punishment.

And much of this anti-abortion issue is about PUNISHMENT for having sex. And isn't that a negative approach? It certainly isn't proactive to PUNISH people for sex, is it? That sounds like something out of Islam where people are stoned to death, thrown off buildings and beheaded for having "improper" sex.

Alabama would be the perfect target for Islamic infiltration because of the lack of education in that state.
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2019 08:24 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
I have looked and looked and yet it still eludes me. Does anyone know where the abortion section of the constitution ir sex occurs or not. Men have no power to decide if sex occurs. That's called rape and it's a crime.

sex is a pro-creative act that has pleasuring benefits. It is not a recreational sport nor is it a weapon. It certainly is not there for men and women to do what they will with no regard for consequences.

I would argue that everyone is pro choice. We ALL have the choice to have unprotected sex. However, we are not all pro consequence or pro personal responsibility. Some argue that you should be allowed to do what you want and if unintended consequences happen then you should simply be allowed to pretend they didn't. Others argue that you should be held accountable for your actions. It's that simple.
 Quoting: Bananafighter



Your grammar is shit. Therefore, your argument is shit.
MissCleo

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United States
05/16/2019 08:25 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Our whole society has to change around this issue. It cuts so deep. Men do deserve a say. Women deserve support (really the baby deserves the support). STFU about the welfare mothers if you want to outlaw abortion. Cause a lot of men don't give a shit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73848670


Men need to understand that "no" means "no" when it comes to sex. How many men pursue sex? And how frequently???
MissCleo

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United States
05/16/2019 08:25 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
a woman makes a choice when she opens her legs. THAT is the choice.

If I get married to a wh0re, do I have a choice to kill her so she doesn't divorce me and rob me of my wealth?
 Quoting: TruthTeller 77020206


If you ejaculate it's your fault.
Buzzcheeze

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United States
05/16/2019 08:25 AM

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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
what bothers me most is in the case of rape.
imagine, being attacked and sexually assaulted, and then having the offspring of that attacker inside of you.

abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, but, forcing a raped woman to keep a baby is even more horrible.

just my 2 cents
 Quoting: jj johns


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324


99% of all quoted percentages are made up on the spot
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by"
'My ego is smaller than yours"
“When seconds MATTER, cops are only minutes away
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73577198
Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:25 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
The House of Medici (English: /ˈmɛdɪtʃi/ MED-i-chee or UK: /məˈdiːtʃi/ mə-DEE-chee, Italian: [ˈmɛːditʃi]) was an Italian banking family and political dynasty that first began to gather prominence under Cosimo de' Medici in the Republic of Florence during the first half of the 15th century. The family originated in the Mugello region of Tuscany, and prospered gradually until it was able to fund the Medici Bank. This bank was the largest in Europe during the 15th century, and it facilitated the Medicis' rise to political power in Florence, [link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
05/16/2019 08:26 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
[link to www.google.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77652439
05/16/2019 08:27 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
...


Your type always go to the extremes. What is the percentage of raped victims getting pregnant.
 Quoting: StriScoLand


Percentage of abortion performed bc woman was raped or had incestuous relationship:

LESS THAN 0.1%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29218324



No, you are wrong. There are a lot more than that, it's just that most woman don't report rape.

On top of that, many woman are raped by their violent husbands/partners, and it's extremely common for the violent man to confiscate the womans contraceptives, purposely getting them pregnant, as a form of control, and of forcing the woman to stay with him (unable to financially support oneself due to being pregnant/unable to work)

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77652439


Right. Some men assume that the everyday normal chick just has sex and aborts. Not true. There are ALWAYS circumstances with abortion. Usually violence and death to the woman.

Pregnant women are the target of homocide often. Even in high profile cases like Drew Peterson, and in some cases the partner/husband will kill the small children in the household too.

Being pregnant makes women vulnerable to attack, this is the basis for honor killing as well. And most men don't realize that their sperm is alive and capable of creating life because of sexual immaturity, which is the main reason for abortion.
 Quoting: MissCleo



Yes, sadly, very true.


I will add, try telling a man to have a vasectomy!!!

I can hear them now, "no fucking way, that's for woman to sort. . . birth control is the womans job . . ." etc etc

.
Icebear

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Canada
05/16/2019 08:27 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.
Women are 51% of all voters, everywhere on Earth. You have to ask, at what point are we committing political suicide with this stuff.

Granted it's reasonable to ban late term abortions other than in extreme cases and it's reasonable to disallow the use of public funds for abortions, but banning abortion in cases of rape or genetic compromise is a formula for political suicide.
In SE Tx, not Canada
StriScoLand

User ID: 31936281
United States
05/16/2019 08:28 AM
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Re: Abortion is not a right and it is not a form of birth control, sorry.

I've never heard of any woman using abortion as a form of birth control.

No one would choose surgery, rather than taking the pill or using other birth control methods.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76254102


Well because women don't use abortion as birth control. That's something dreamed up by sexually immature people and pro-lifers as a form of verbal punishment.

And much of this anti-abortion issue is about PUNISHMENT for having sex. And isn't that a negative approach? It certainly isn't proactive to PUNISH people for sex, is it? That sounds like something out of Islam where people are stoned to death, thrown off buildings and beheaded for having "improper" sex.

Alabama would be the perfect target for Islamic infiltration because of the lack of education in that state.
 Quoting: MissCleo


Yup that could happen...but it would have originally be caused by the pro-choice crowd because they think you should be able to kill after a baby is born. So the strong man arises and goes to the other extreme.