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Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs

 
Weyoun
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05/27/2019 07:14 AM
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Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
"At Tesla's Autonomy Day last month, Elon Musk formalized his war on LIDAR for robocars. In recent times, he has repeatedly deprecated it, but in the investor day he came out swinging:

'LIDAR is a fool's errand. Anyone who relies on LIDAR is doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary.'
...
In the accident, the Tesla's algorithms apparently misunderstood the lane markers and drove into the false 'lane' between the road and an off-ramp. It drove right into a crash barrier, killing the driver. That it missed the lane markers is expected sometimes with the current level of Tesla technology. It ran into the crash barrier because both its radar and its vision algorithms failed to identify the barrier. Again, this will happen sometimes with today's technology. The radar would have seen it, but as a stationary object, radar systems can't quite precisely tell where they are, so you can't brake every time your radar bounces off a stationary object near your path.

More importantly, the computer vision systems failed to identify the barrier. It is a likely presumption that they simply aren't trained in detecting these, in particular detecting a damaged one; this barrier had been smashed 11 days beforehand by a regular human driver. Neural networks only identify things they have been trained on, or things similar to them. Tesla's networks are well trained to identify the backs of every vehicle on the road, and certain types of objects, but in 2018 they may not have been trained on this. And so they drove on, and to make it worse they accelerated because they now thought they had a completely open new lane, and that's what adaptive cruise controls often do in that situation.

A LIDAR system would have almost certainly detected this barrier. A LIDAR system would have detected the truck crossing the road that killed Tesla driver Joshua Brown in Florida when Autopilot sent his car under it. LIDAR systems don't need to understand what the object in front of them is to know that it is there, and exactly where it is and how big it is. Proper LIDAR/software systems do understand more about what the obstacles are, and they are combined with vision to improve that to a level better than vision can do alone."

[link to www.forbes.com (secure)]

TLDR: To cut costs, Enron Musk is refusing to incorporate proven safety technology and murdering people as a result.

Last Edited by Weyoun on 05/27/2019 07:17 AM
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2019 07:42 AM
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Re: Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
In the very near future, when TSLA stock price drifts down into lower double digits, their whole business model and dubious, over-hyped technology will come crashing down, leaving a whole lot of virtue signalling, douche-bag assholes Tesla owners with a yard ornament to their stupidity.

However Musk is no more responsible for road deaths, than any gun manufacturer is responsible for their products.

Hat off to Musk, for trying... As for all the government grants and handouts, that's another matter.

The days of heavy gas-guzzling automobiles, SUV's and vanity trucks is also coming to an end. Make no mistake, the economic downturn that is already starting, is going to be as painful as anything the USA has ever experience since the civil war.
CK Dexter Haven

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05/27/2019 07:46 AM
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Re: Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
"murdering people" ???

hillaWAT
Weyoun  (OP)

User ID: 76234375
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06/05/2019 04:21 AM
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Re: Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
However Musk is no more responsible for road deaths, than any gun manufacturer is responsible for their products.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76204248


Actually, if any gun manufacturer is knowingly and negligently making unsafe guns that blow up and harm the user, the gun manufacturer is liable. Just like exploding samsung phones and self-crashing teslas.

In fact, when guns malfunction and the user is hurt, insurance companies get involved and they have to recoup the medical costs so they investigate and there's a lot of finger pointing between ammo and gun makers, each one blaming the other for out-of-spec product.

Here, we have Enron Musk brazenly dismissing safety measures just like if he were to dismiss air bags or seat belts and left them out of his cars. There are laws now that the driver seat must have an air bag and every seat must have seat belts, but there weren't always those laws and they came about after lots of lawsuits and such. And if a car maker puts malfunctioning air bags like Toyota did, they become liable and pay big $ in fines and lawsuits. If self-driving cars ever become mainstream, you will see similar laws mandating a minimum set of safety features that Enron Musk is currently against.

Last Edited by Weyoun on 06/05/2019 04:29 AM
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2019 04:26 AM
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Re: Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
"At Tesla's Autonomy Day last month, Elon Musk formalized his war on LIDAR for robocars. In recent times, he has repeatedly deprecated it, but in the investor day he came out swinging:

'LIDAR is a fool's errand. Anyone who relies on LIDAR is doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary.'
...
In the accident, the Tesla's algorithms apparently misunderstood the lane markers and drove into the false 'lane' between the road and an off-ramp. It drove right into a crash barrier, killing the driver. That it missed the lane markers is expected sometimes with the current level of Tesla technology. It ran into the crash barrier because both its radar and its vision algorithms failed to identify the barrier. Again, this will happen sometimes with today's technology. The radar would have seen it, but as a stationary object, radar systems can't quite precisely tell where they are, so you can't brake every time your radar bounces off a stationary object near your path.

More importantly, the computer vision systems failed to identify the barrier. It is a likely presumption that they simply aren't trained in detecting these, in particular detecting a damaged one; this barrier had been smashed 11 days beforehand by a regular human driver. Neural networks only identify things they have been trained on, or things similar to them. Tesla's networks are well trained to identify the backs of every vehicle on the road, and certain types of objects, but in 2018 they may not have been trained on this. And so they drove on, and to make it worse they accelerated because they now thought they had a completely open new lane, and that's what adaptive cruise controls often do in that situation.

A LIDAR system would have almost certainly detected this barrier. A LIDAR system would have detected the truck crossing the road that killed Tesla driver Joshua Brown in Florida when Autopilot sent his car under it. LIDAR systems don't need to understand what the object in front of them is to know that it is there, and exactly where it is and how big it is. Proper LIDAR/software systems do understand more about what the obstacles are, and they are combined with vision to improve that to a level better than vision can do alone."

[link to www.forbes.com (secure)]

TLDR: To cut costs, Enron Musk is refusing to incorporate proven safety technology and murdering people as a result.
 Quoting: Weyoun


I have zero clue, is he using neural nets together with sensors to identify the barriers?
Weyoun  (OP)

User ID: 76234375
United States
06/05/2019 04:34 AM
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Re: Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
"At Tesla's Autonomy Day last month, Elon Musk formalized his war on LIDAR for robocars. In recent times, he has repeatedly deprecated it, but in the investor day he came out swinging:

'LIDAR is a fool's errand. Anyone who relies on LIDAR is doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary.'
...
In the accident, the Tesla's algorithms apparently misunderstood the lane markers and drove into the false 'lane' between the road and an off-ramp. It drove right into a crash barrier, killing the driver. That it missed the lane markers is expected sometimes with the current level of Tesla technology. It ran into the crash barrier because both its radar and its vision algorithms failed to identify the barrier. Again, this will happen sometimes with today's technology. The radar would have seen it, but as a stationary object, radar systems can't quite precisely tell where they are, so you can't brake every time your radar bounces off a stationary object near your path.

More importantly, the computer vision systems failed to identify the barrier. It is a likely presumption that they simply aren't trained in detecting these, in particular detecting a damaged one; this barrier had been smashed 11 days beforehand by a regular human driver. Neural networks only identify things they have been trained on, or things similar to them. Tesla's networks are well trained to identify the backs of every vehicle on the road, and certain types of objects, but in 2018 they may not have been trained on this. And so they drove on, and to make it worse they accelerated because they now thought they had a completely open new lane, and that's what adaptive cruise controls often do in that situation.

A LIDAR system would have almost certainly detected this barrier. A LIDAR system would have detected the truck crossing the road that killed Tesla driver Joshua Brown in Florida when Autopilot sent his car under it. LIDAR systems don't need to understand what the object in front of them is to know that it is there, and exactly where it is and how big it is. Proper LIDAR/software systems do understand more about what the obstacles are, and they are combined with vision to improve that to a level better than vision can do alone."

[link to www.forbes.com (secure)]

TLDR: To cut costs, Enron Musk is refusing to incorporate proven safety technology and murdering people as a result.
 Quoting: Weyoun


I have zero clue, is he using neural nets together with sensors to identify the barriers?
 Quoting: TSPNS


He is relying on guess work, and gambling with people's lives, instead of using tech that has been proven for decades and used by low-flying stealth aircraft to auto-fly hugging the terrain at mach speeds.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2019 04:37 AM
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Re: Elon Musk Disregards Safety Technology and Is Murdering People to Cut Costs
In the very near future, when TSLA stock price drifts down into lower double digits, their whole business model and dubious, over-hyped technology will come crashing down, leaving a whole lot of virtue signalling, douche-bag assholes Tesla owners with a yard ornament to their stupidity.

However Musk is no more responsible for road deaths, than any gun manufacturer is responsible for their products.

Hat off to Musk, for trying... As for all the government grants and handouts, that's another matter.

The days of heavy gas-guzzling automobiles, SUV's and vanity trucks is also coming to an end. Make no mistake, the economic downturn that is already starting, is going to be as painful as anything the USA has ever experience since the civil war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76204248




hesright





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