Pre-Tribulation Church Rapture 101

This is a new one to me. Do you have any scripture that says the GT is sent to hell for 1000 years?

The pre-tribbers believe the 144,000 are raptured after them. What doctrine do you believe since I have never heard it before?

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/03/2019 08:46 PM

47 mins Doug Batchelor


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Re:8:12-13:
And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.
And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe,
woe,
woe,
to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!

The 1st woe is the 5th trump, it is pain without anybody dying, it lasts 5 months. (from a total of 42 months)
The 2nd woe is 4 fallen angels manufesting into the 200M angelic horsemen who are allowed to kill a full 1/3 of manking in the 37 months that remain of the 42 months those two woes take up. The two witnesses would be in that group. Having 5 fingers is enough to target you compared to them seeking out a specific group. (the 144,000 and the Church) are the last woman in Re:12 and they are all safe and sound 'in the wilderness where Satan cannot get to them. The 'remnant' in that selection is just the two witnesses as they are the only people that have 'powers from above like Moses had)
The 3rd woe is Jesus on the day the two witnesses are resurrected. it takes about 3 1/2 hours to pour out all 7 vials that kills 2x as many people that Satan did in 1110 days. Jesus turns all oceans into a 'solid' as that is what a dead man's blood is, rather than being liquid. Jesus also kill all other flesh and they are all missing for the whole of the 1,000 years. That is so none are sent to the fiery lake when Satan is. They are not holy as they do not know the difference between good and evil. They are all alive in the new earth verse and will be like Adam was in the garden, an eternal being that will live forever as long as food and water are available. The whole group includes the two that God killed in the garden to make clothes so all 'other flesh' between that event and the one Jesus does includes all of them.

Ho:4:3:
Therefore shall the land mourn,
and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven;
yea,
the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
Lu:12:6:
Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings,
and not one of them is forgotten before God?
Lu:12:7:
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Fear not therefore:
ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Lu:3:6:
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
1Co:15:39:
All flesh is not the same flesh:
but there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts,
another of fishes,
and another of birds.

The sword is the same sword. The 'servants' is the whole of the people alive for the 1,000 years. They are immortals like angels and like angels they are not given in marriage so the population in that period is static. They live in New Jerusalem in the New earth verses (new Jerusalem is the one in the verses below) The ones undergoing 'stress' are in hell, they are also the ones building houses in the verses that follow the one posted below.

Re:19:20-21:
And the beast was taken,
and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him,
with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast,
and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Isa:65:12-19:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:
for,
behold,
I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and joy in my people:
and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her,
nor the voice of crying.

The missing verse would need a bit of explaining but this group is given in marriage and each couple have 100 children.

Isa:65:21-25:
And they shall build houses,
and inhabit them;
and they shall plant vineyards,
and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build,
and another inhabit;
they shall not plant,
and another eat:
for as the days of a tree are the days of my people,
and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain,
nor bring forth for trouble;
for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD,
and their offspring with them.
And it shall come to pass,
that before they call,
I will answer;
and while they are yet speaking,
I will hear.
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock:
and dust shall be the serpent's meat.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain,
saith the LORD.

They are the first people sealed. The 7 seals are prophecies rather than events. The trumps are the actual events and the sealing of the 144,000 and the Church members from Re:11 and the two witnesses are all sealed before any trump sounds. The two witnesses and the Beast have the same length of time and the Beast kiss the two witnesses 4 days before he is sent to the lake. That is 4 days so the two witnesses start 4 days before the Beast does, He starts with the 5th trump so the first 4 trumps all sound in just 4 days. The sealing is the first event and using some times from Daniel it would seem like the 1290 days would apply as it covers the 1260 days the two witnesses are gives as well as 30 days for the verse below which is the sealing as the 'coal from heaven' is the same light that gathered Saul. The 1335 days from Daniel is the 1290 plus 45 days tacked onto time after the two witnesses are killed. The 4 days they are in the grave and the rest of the time is for them to walk to Israel so they enter from the east and they drink from the river in Eze:47 before they make it to Jerusalem. The 12 tribes are all at the river in the first 10 days so they are glorified and in Jerusalem before the Church begins coming in.

This is for after Satan is sent to the fiery lake and the start of the Great White Throne event.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Heb:12:22-23:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

This is where God was in Ge:1:1 and it is the home for angels as they never leave and the perfected men are the ones that have been learning about a sinless earth for the whole of the 1,000 years. Being perfected qualifies them to teach the people that come alive at the GWT event and to live in New Jerusalem.
That is a summation rather than the 'long winded version'.

Last Edited by Wayfaring Stranger on 08/03/2019 09:39 PM

That is a lot to read and a lot of assumptions that I am not sure are in scripture.

I do not remember seeing anywhere in scripture where a timeline is given to each woe.

Can you start a new tread for this and I will address it there. I would like to answer about rapture on this thread.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/03/2019 09:46 PM

No, I don't.

The 144,000 are Je,ws preaching Yeshua after the Church has been raptured and during the Tribulation.

More whining. What a crybaby. Romans 1 calls effeminate men reprobates.

So do you believe the 144K are raptured before or after the start of the church? Your reply was a little confusing to me.

Do you believe rapture and the 1st resurrection are the same thing or basically happen at the same time?

It was as short as I could make it rather than as detailed as I can make it. It fits in with the topic of this thread. I'm pretty careful about having the verses in the right context before I type anything. I also posted a thread some time ago (a few years) called 'Day of the Lord'. It is a very long read but it is also as detailed as I could make it, that will be the 2nd link. I will post a reply to you in the first link below as it is a recent thread.
Ask a lot of question, if you stump me I haven't done my research properly.

Thread: The iron/clay kingdom has not even started yet.

Thread: Day of the Lord, literalist version.

I will take a look at your other threads. Thank you.

Hypocrite.

29 mins


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You also are a liar saying I was discussing canned goods. What a weirdo. I doubt you are a Christian at all.

Bingo!

The woman in the verse below would include the 144,000 and all members of the Gentile Church. The 'remnannt' are the two witnesses alone.

The 'wilderness' would be the same as the one Jesus was in during His 40 day fast. The 'remnant' are the two witnesses alone. If the 144,000 were not there they would die during the 6th trump's 1/3 of all of mankind that the 200M angelic horsemen kill. The two witnesses are protected until an appointed day and then they are killed by the fallen angel known as 'the Beast from the Pit'.
The 144,000 are taken from that same wilderness and put on the same mountain top where Jesus was seen in a vision, that mountain is just north of the Sea of Galilee and from there they will watch all the events that happen on the day the two witnesses are resurrected. Within one hour of that Jesus will pour out all 7 vials within a few hours. In the last few hours of that day the Eze:37 resurrections will take place so the 12 Tribes are 'whole' for the first time ever. By 6pm all Re:20:4 resurrections have been done and that is the end of the first day of the 1,000 year reign.

The woman is also people gathered by the NT.

Re:12:13-17:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness,
into her place,
where she is nourished for a time,
and times,
and half a time,
from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman,
and the earth opened her mouth,
and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Re:11:3-4:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth.
These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Zec:4:10-14:
For who hath despised the day of small things?
for they shall rejoice,
and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven;
they are the eyes of the LORD,
which run to and fro through the whole earth.
Then answered I,
and said unto him,
What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
And I answered again,
and said unto him,
What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
And he answered me and said,
Knowest thou not what these be?
And I said,
No,
my lord.
Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

So what do you think happens to the 2 witnesses. 144k and the tribulation saints after the pre-trib church is raptured/resurrected? When do the rest get raptured? These are not wicked people. They follow God's commandments and are beheaded for their testimony. When do they get their chance?

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/04/2019 08:24 AM

Surely you know what happens with the 2 witnesses, you claim to know the bible

yet you are asking me questions that an 10 year old would ask. And on top of that what's with the second Rapture thing, you should know darned well that the bible only talks about one Rapture. As for the Tribulation Saints read it up, do you expect me to spoon feed you?

The 2 witnesses are raptured/resurrected. That means they are at the same time as the rest of the church. Except this blows the pre-trib theory out of the water. If there is only one rapture/1st resurrection and the 2 witness go through the tribulation like it states in the Bible then the church goes through the tribulation with the 2 witnesses, the 144k and all the tribulation saints.

I believe the Book of Revelation is for the most part a chronological account.The Rapture of the Church takes place in Rev:4. The 144,000 witnesses are first mentioned in Rev. 7:1-8, while the 2 witnesses don’t appear until Rev. 11:3. That means the 144,000 will arrive first. There is no apparent connection between the two groups. Both will be prepared for their respective ministries independently. The 2 witness will serve from just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation until just before its end. The Bible doesn’t offer any detail on the duration of the ministry of the 144,000. Nor does it inform us about their final disposition.

I believe the Book of Revelation jumps around. Just look at the woes. The connection between the 144,000 and the 2 witnesses is Israel. God says Israel is his witness and the 144,000 represent remnant Israel. As for the final disposition of the 144,000 they arrive with Christ and follow him where ever he goes.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/04/2019 11:38 AM

If that were true it would be equal to sowing confusion.
We should all recognize who the author of confusion is.

No confusion just look at Revelation and see who Jesus shows up with. It is not the pre-tribbers.

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

That's because we are in heaven. All of us tend to forget that there is a great unfinished business with the Jues known as the Time of Jacob's Troubles. It should be obvious to anyone who isn't walking around in a coma that Christianity (except for a faithful few is on it's last legs. That should hardly come as any great surprise, Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem and a great many Jues will turn to Him and thus be saved.

The 144,000 qualify as 'the few in numbers' De:4:27)and by the end of that same day they are joined by more than a few 'relatives' Mary of Bethany will be the first one resurrected.

Eze:37:11-17:
Then he said unto me,
Son of man,
these bones are the whole house of Israel:
behold,
they say,
Our bones are dried,
and our hope is lost:
we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold,
O my people,
I will open your graves,
and cause you to come up out of your graves,
and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD,
when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you,
and ye shall live,
and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it,
and performed it, saith the LORD.
The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
Moreover, thou son of man,
take thee one stick,
and write upon it,
For Judah,
and for the children of Israel his companions:
then take another stick,
and write upon it,
For Joseph,
the stick of Ephraim,
and for all the house of Israel his companions:
And join them one to another into one stick;
and they shall become one in thine hand.

That is a pretty good time. It took me 29 years to write it, lol.

I see you will not answer my reply about the 2 witnesses being resurrected after the tribulation and just delete the message. There is only one rapture/1st Resurrection and this obviously does not fit the pre-trib agenda.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 08/04/2019 07:25 PM

Liar?!

Canned goods was sarcasm for your endless preparation, dumbdumb..

Your hypocrisy remains revelatory of your heart and spirit.

Last Edited by shoeshy on 08/04/2019 07:36 PM