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The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:04 PM
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The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
"The F-35 is being sold to the American people based in no small part on its mission systems, the vast array of sophisticated electronics on board the jet. A quick perusal of any of the hagiographic articles about the F-35 will find that they nearly always point to its capabilities to gather massive amounts of information.

This information is supposed to come through its onboard sensors and the data links to outside networked sources, and then be merged by the F-35’s computer systems to identify and display for the pilot the specific threat, target and accompanying force picture;i.e. “situational awareness.”

This process is designed to allow the pilot to dominate the battlespace. Based on the actual test performance of these systems during developmental testing, however, it appears the electronics actually interfere with the pilot’s ability to survive and prevail.

Overall, problems with the F-35’s sensors, computers and software, including creating false targets and reporting inaccurate locations, have been severe enough that test teams at Edwards Air Force Base have rated them “red,” meaning they are unable to perform the combat tasks expected of them.

One system, the Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS), was singled out by pilots as inferior in resolution and range to the systems currently being used on legacy aircraft. EOTS is one of the systems designed to help the F-35 detect and destroy enemy fighters from far enough away to make dogfighting a thing of the past. Mounted close to the nose of the aircraft, it incorporates a television camera, an infrared search and track system, and a laser rangefinder and designator.

These sensors swivel under computer control to track targets over a wide field of regard and display imagery on the pilot’s helmet visor display.

But the limitations of EOTS, including image degradation with humidity, force pilots to fly in closer to a target than they had to when using earlier systems just to get a clear enough picture to launch a missile or take a shot.
The report says the problem is bad enough that F-35 pilots may need to fly in so close to acquire the target that they would have to maneuver away to gain the distance needed for a guided weapon shot. Thus, the system’s limitations can force an attacking F-35 to compromise surprise, allowing the enemy to maneuver to a first-shot opportunity.
Surrendering the element of surprise and enabling an opponent to shoot first is what we want to force the enemy to do, not ourselves.

Another often-touted feature that is supposed to give the F-35 superior situational awareness is the Distributed Aperture System (DAS). The DAS is one of the primary sensors feeding the displays to the infamous $600,000 helmet system, and it is also failing to live up to the hype.

The DAS sensors are six video cameras or “eyes” distributed around the fuselage of the F-35 that project onto the helmet visor the outside view in any direction the pilot wants to look, including downwards or to the rear. At the same time, the helmet visor displays the flight instruments and the target and threat symbols derived from the sensors and mission system.

But because of problems with excessive false targets, unstable “jittered” images and information overload, pilots are turning off some of the sensor and computer inputs and relying instead on simplified displays or the more traditional instrument panel.

Here again, the system is little better than those it’s supposed to replace.

Test pilots also had difficulty with the helmet during some of the important Weapon Delivery Accuracy tests. Several of the pilots described the displays in the helmet as “operationally unusable and potentially unsafe” because of “symbol clutter” obscuring ground targets.

While attempting to test fire short-range AIM-9X air-to-air missiles against targets, pilots reported that their view of the target was blocked by the symbols displayed on their helmet visors. Pilots also reported that the symbols were unstable while they were attempting to track targets.

Then there is the matter of pilots actually seeing double due to “false tracks.” There is a problem with taking all of the information generated by the various onboard instruments and merging it into a coherent picture for the pilot, a process called sensor fusion.

Pilots are reporting that the different instruments, like the plane’s radar and the EOTS, are detecting the same target but the computer compiling the information is displaying the single target as two.

Pilots have tried to work around this problem by shutting off some of the sensors to make the superfluous targets disappear. This, DOT&E says, is “unacceptable for combat and violates the basic principle of fusing contributions from multiple sensors into an accurate track and clear display to gain situational awareness and to identify and engage enemy targets.”

And as bad as the problem is in a single plane, it’s much worse when several planes are attempting to share data across the network. The F-35 has a Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) that is designed to enable the plane to share information with other F-35s in order to give all the pilots a common picture of the battlespace. It does this by taking all of the data generated by each plane and combining it into a single, shared view of the world.

But this system, too, is creating erroneous or split images of targets. Compounding the problem, the system is also sometimes dropping images of targets altogether, causing confusion inside the cockpits about what’s there or not there.

All of this means that the systems meant to give the pilots a better understanding of the world around them can do exactly the opposite. According to the report, these systems “continue to degrade battlespace awareness and increase pilot workload. Workarounds to these deficiencies are time-consuming for the pilot and detract from efficient and effective mission execution.”

F-35 boosters say it’s the network that matters; what actually matters is that the network isn’t working..." [less than 50%]

[link to warisboring.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:07 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
I find it fitting that a trans combat aircraft fail as bad a a human one does.
Just can't get a break being what you're not.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/16/2019 11:09 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
I find it fitting that a trans combat aircraft fail as bad a a human one does.
Just can't get a break being what you're not.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10724289


Well, Eisenhower warned about giving the MIC too much power. Turns out he was exactly right:

Goblin Slayer

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10/16/2019 11:15 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The F-35 is one of the best fighters in the world. This is just more anti-American propaganda bullshit since Japan and Poland are buying it in large numbers. The bugs, if there were any, have likely been fixed by now.
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:16 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
It's those Chinese electronic components. Too much variance for mil spec.

Bring the manufacturing amd supply chain home.
Katipo2017

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10/16/2019 11:17 PM

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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Is it really a piece of crap? There are plenty of clips around of them taking off from carriers and landing again. You never see clips of them doing anything else. Makes you wonder.
Any sarcasm in this post is purely intentional.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:18 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The F-35 is one of the best fighters in the world. This is just more anti-American propaganda bullshit since Japan and Poland are buying it in large numbers. The bugs, if there were any, have likely been fixed by now.
 Quoting: Goblin Slayer


Israel love sit!!
Zoink

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10/16/2019 11:21 PM

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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Perception. Its all about how the world perceives our military strength. Most of the time, it never lives up to the hype or expectation.
Ash Nazg Durbatulûk, Ash Nazg Gimbatul, Ash Nazg Thrakatulûk, Agh Burzum-ishi Krimpatul
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:22 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
more Russian FUD. Isreali F35s have been bombing untouched and at-will.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:25 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
hard to believe

what .. they want china to take over the world or something ?
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:27 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Its loud & scarey.

To people that fight in flip flops with AK47 it dont matter what it cost.
They gonna run as fast as their flip flops can go to get the hell outa there.

Its not for dogfights is it.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:28 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The F-35 is one of the best fighters in the world. This is just more anti-American propaganda bullshit since Japan and Poland are buying it in large numbers. The bugs, if there were any, have likely been fixed by now.
 Quoting: Goblin Slayer


“Likely “

Sounds legit...

dowager
DeploraVision ™

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10/16/2019 11:29 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Guess what?

Thread: Chinese company making circuit boards for F35 Jets !!

madeinchina
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Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:31 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The Israeli opinion of the F35's performance and airframe is that it is quite workable.

But the very first thing the Israelis do on receiving an F35 is strip out its US electronics and radar, & insert their own superior systems.
DeploraVision ™

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10/16/2019 11:32 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
You heard it here on GLP back in June!


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Thread: Chinese company making circuit boards for F35 Jets !!
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Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:37 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The F-35 is one of the best fighters in the world. This is just more anti-American propaganda bullshit since Japan and Poland are buying it in large numbers. The bugs, if there were any, have likely been fixed by now.
 Quoting: Goblin Slayer


Israel love sit!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76811228


People usually do like free things.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:37 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The Israeli opinion of the F35's performance and airframe is that it is quite workable.

But the very first thing the Israelis do on receiving an F35 is strip out its US electronics and radar, & insert their own superior systems.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78076192


In other words...Junk.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:38 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
 Quoting: DeploraVision ™


china love f35 loooong time
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:48 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
keep working on the f35

in real combat the anomaly will merge

the circuitry into optimal performance anyway
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:50 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Classic example of making something so complicated that it doesnt work...
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:51 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
keep working on the f35

in real combat the anomaly will merge

the circuitry into optimal performance anyway
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78028755


Fail... auto eject
DeploraVision ™

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10/16/2019 11:57 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
keep working on the f35

in real combat the anomaly will merge

the circuitry into optimal performance anyway
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78028755


Fail... auto eject
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77706727


freefall
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Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2019 11:59 PM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
more Russian FUD. Isreali F35s have been bombing untouched and at-will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75543000


Yep, they have the radar profile of a bird.
Jungleboogie

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10/17/2019 12:01 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The F-35 is one of the best fighters in the world. This is just more anti-American propaganda bullshit since Japan and Poland are buying it in large numbers. The bugs, if there were any, have likely been fixed by now.
 Quoting: Goblin Slayer


So you're just assuming then?

LINK-pls
Embrace the cognitive dissonance.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:05 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
It's those Chinese electronic components. Too much variance for mil spec.

Bring the manufacturing amd supply chain home.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75785071


Its not an issue with bad quality componets, its an issue with design. A human pilot has enough to keep track of just flying the plane, if you add too many tasks on top of that, you're not doing the pilot any favors.

The interface clearly needs a major redesign.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:08 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The Royal Navy wanted the Rafale which is superior in every department. Unfortunately all our politicians have a habit of being pedo-blackmailed by our security services - who ultimately work for the weapons companies - and not the French ones.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:09 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Perception. Its all about how the world perceives our military strength. Most of the time, it never lives up to the hype or expectation.
 Quoting: Zoink


Like when all the anti-missle systems couldn't protect the Saudi oil refinery, because they were pointed in the wrong direction!5a
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:12 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
Building piloted fighter jets is absurd anymore. Computers can out fly any human and are not affected by G forces.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:13 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The Israeli opinion of the F35's performance and airframe is that it is quite workable.

But the very first thing the Israelis do on receiving an F35 is strip out its US electronics and radar, & insert their own superior systems.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78076192


exactly.

If Iran shot down all those Israeli f35s, the OEM f35's are in even bigger trouble.

that's why were seeing IRaqis revolt in Iraq, Yemen capturing Saudi soldiers, Turkey attacking US base.

everyone found out the f-35's are shit, Iran told them how to shoot them down and so they've all been grounded.

without Air Superiority, US conventional Forces would take high losses. this will cause a spiraling loss of confidence to attack foreigners minding their own business

most countries would defeat US conventional forces without air superiority
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:15 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
The best A/C carrier fighter jet was the F-14 Tomcat

Motto:

"Anywhere, Anytime Baby!"
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 12:24 AM
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Re: The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker and unfit for aircraft carriers
more Russian FUD. Isreali F35s have been bombing untouched and at-will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75543000


Yep, they have the radar profile of a bird.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78088155


Has nothing to do with that. Israel hides behind passenger planes when they do their bombings inside Syria. Israel has the most cowardly scumbag military on Earth.





GLP