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Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"

 
Old Custer
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10/17/2019 09:07 AM
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Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Not that I blame them. So many deadbeats in their IT dept, just collecting a check. Right now we're pulling information for quotes. All we keep hearing is:

'nobody is going to lose their job'
'what you do may change'
'this is going to free you up to do important work'

I sat long and hard and thought about it and came up with a few thoughts, nobody was going to lose their job why would they outsource. Whats the point. They're just gonna keep paying people for redundancy. I would they justify salary of 3 senior network engineers when they outsourced the network management. Does this mean they'll offer people lower paying jobs within the company.

Even if I was one of the 'lucky' ones what type of advancement opportunities would there actually be. If the department lost 90% of its people then management within the department just got 1000x more competitive.

Just sucks because nobody is worried. Its like they're all in denial and they want to believe. Sometimes i wish I was an idiot. Thanks for letting me rant GLP brethren.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73613959
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10/17/2019 09:12 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Have you considered the possibility that you will be offered a job with the outsource company at a lower wage and benefits? In this way, you are not technically losing your job.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78014024
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10/17/2019 09:14 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Plenty going to be getting this letter

Many going out on the street
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75951903
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10/17/2019 09:15 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I just had this happen a few years ago…

You will be asked to train them to do "your daily stuff" so you can work higher priority stuff..

Then guess what happens? they start laying off people in the IT dept because you can get 3 outsourced people for every 1 in house.

You will also end up babysitting these people..

Start looking for a new job
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74885351
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10/17/2019 09:16 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
you lost your job to foreigners. you can directly blame obama.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73613959
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10/17/2019 09:18 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
If you are an old VMS guy, there are still shops running who will pay you well and the young guys at the outsource place don’t want to waste their time learning the old tech. You can leave this shity gig if needed.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 09:18 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
In my area shits closing left and right

Mostly restaurants

The storm is here
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78089086
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10/17/2019 09:19 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
you lost your job to foreigners. you can directly blame obama.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74885351


Guys been out of a job for 3 years and you still blaming him?

Wow, you've got some issues.
Old Custer  (OP)

User ID: 66177791
United States
10/17/2019 09:35 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Have you considered the possibility that you will be offered a job with the outsource company at a lower wage and benefits? In this way, you are not technically losing your job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73613959


They're several states away. Really why would they pay my salary for hands-on-the-ground. Those places are very much a scorched earth numbers game. Promise everything, do bare minimum to maximize profit, doesn't matter if the clients are happy as long as there more clients coming in. rinse repeat etc. I've seen the managed services game. But it may be a possibility, they may not be like I described.
BeelzeBob

User ID: 918411
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10/17/2019 09:40 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
What industry do you work in?
Old Custer  (OP)

User ID: 66177791
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10/17/2019 09:40 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I just had this happen a few years ago…

You will be asked to train them to do "your daily stuff" so you can work higher priority stuff..

Then guess what happens? they start laying off people in the IT dept because you can get 3 outsourced people for every 1 in house.

You will also end up babysitting these people..

Start looking for a new job
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75951903


Its even worse than that. This place will replace all our apps etc. Wont even need anyone on-site. Just to manage the endpoints im guessing. They probably do that too.
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 09:41 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
What industry do you work in?
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Finance.
BeelzeBob

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10/17/2019 09:53 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
What industry do you work in?
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Finance.
 Quoting: Old Custer


I ask because many times things like this will trend an industry. One does it and others follow. I am in manufacturing IT and am first hand watching many retirements occur. The knowledge that is walking out the door in some cases will be difficult to replace for quite some time.
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 09:53 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
If you are an old VMS guy, there are still shops running who will pay you well and the young guys at the outsource place don’t want to waste their time learning the old tech. You can leave this shity gig if needed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73613959


Not an old VMS guy. Came into the field during the Wintel times.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 09:54 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
These outsourcers typically over commit and under deliver. The only people who can possibly pick up the slack are the employees who are losing their jobs. Seen a few times where these folks were hired back at an hourly wage (a really good one) temporarily. My advice is if they offer you a package take it and run. It will be a mess any way it goes once they pull the trigger and smart people leave. I would not come back as an hourly contractor unless you have no alternatives.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 09:56 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I was in Finance when it happened to me.. I moved on. The CIO left as well just before it all started to fall apart..

Not to mention all of the decisions to "Move to the cloud" all of that is coming back onsite as well.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 09:58 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
We need to turn this kate bot off.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78056128
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10/17/2019 10:04 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Every single human is replaceable in the “work force.” You had to be taught to do what you do, and there will always be someone willing to learn what you do for less money.
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 10:17 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
What industry do you work in?
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Finance.
 Quoting: Old Custer


I ask because many times things like this will trend an industry. One does it and others follow. I am in manufacturing IT and am first hand watching many retirements occur. The knowledge that is walking out the door in some cases will be difficult to replace for quite some time.
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Im at a bank who's always done everything in-house. It makes sense to hand it off. There's giant companies that will do everything and have applications that all 'talk'. I was a consultant for years I've done the mfg side. (Maybe Ill go learn PLC programming and all that Allen Bradley stuff.) Ive done MSP consulting before for just about every industry. fun fun. I left MSP world because it was a lazy cash grab. Its not just the knowledge going out the door, its the work ethic too. Young people are very different. They either want to be the janitor or the CEO. They made it very uncool to go after a middle class lifestyle in the last 10 years. I don't think we ramp up and be a world power again. We forgot how to build things that build things.

MFG was a strange beast. Funny story. I once worked at a 'green factory' that suppose to have no waste. There were no or very few garbage cans. The place was a dump because you weren't allowed to throw anything away. People would hide garbage anywhere they could. You would look behind something and there would be wrapper and packaging. It was insane and hysterical. But they were 'green'.
BeelzeBob

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10/17/2019 10:18 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Every single human is replaceable in the “work force.” You had to be taught to do what you do, and there will always be someone willing to learn what you do for less money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78056128


True if given the time and resource. Instead of the normal ebb and flow of new employees and retiring employees, this go-round we will see a situation where too many leave at once creating panic hiring and panic promoting.

In many cases those left behind must continue to support things that can't be broken/down for long periods of time while they learn. If the exiting people don't train the arriving people, obtaining that knowledge becomes a second job and sometimes very difficult.


Now if you use packaged systems (e.g. SAP) the gap filling becomes much easier. The custom code and applications is where it gets dicey, especially in complex systems.
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 10:24 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I was in Finance when it happened to me.. I moved on. The CIO left as well just before it all started to fall apart..

Not to mention all of the decisions to "Move to the cloud" all of that is coming back onsite as well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75951903


Yeah. Was your cloud move more PaaS or SaaS. The companies we're looking at do everything. We wouldn't manage anything anymore. They can either host our critical apps or lift and take our entire network. Just depends what management wants to do. Honestly we're so behind on stuff I can see the latter.
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 10:31 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Every single human is replaceable in the “work force.” You had to be taught to do what you do, and there will always be someone willing to learn what you do for less money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78056128


True if given the time and resource. Instead of the normal ebb and flow of new employees and retiring employees, this go-round we will see a situation where too many leave at once creating panic hiring and panic promoting.

In many cases those left behind must continue to support things that can't be broken/down for long periods of time while they learn. If the exiting people don't train the arriving people, obtaining that knowledge becomes a second job and sometimes very difficult.


Now if you use packaged systems (e.g. SAP) the gap filling becomes much easier. The custom code and applications is where it gets dicey, especially in complex systems.
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Thats our problem. we have a lot of homebrew workflows to connect systems that were never designed to talk. I can see why going to a platform makes sense vs investing in developers to keep it talking. The problem is every IT salesman promises the world for cheap. Once you hand everything over the cost of getting it back becomes extreme. It would be like if I paid someone to manage my life. Good luck if that relationship ever goes south, or if they up their rates. They pretty much have you by the balls at that point. that's 90% of the MSP business strategy.
BeelzeBob

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10/17/2019 10:31 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
What industry do you work in?
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Finance.
 Quoting: Old Custer


I ask because many times things like this will trend an industry. One does it and others follow. I am in manufacturing IT and am first hand watching many retirements occur. The knowledge that is walking out the door in some cases will be difficult to replace for quite some time.
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Im at a bank who's always done everything in-house. It makes sense to hand it off. There's giant companies that will do everything and have applications that all 'talk'. I was a consultant for years I've done the mfg side. (Maybe Ill go learn PLC programming and all that Allen Bradley stuff.) Ive done MSP consulting before for just about every industry. fun fun. I left MSP world because it was a lazy cash grab. Its not just the knowledge going out the door, its the work ethic too. Young people are very different. They either want to be the janitor or the CEO. They made it very uncool to go after a middle class lifestyle in the last 10 years. I don't think we ramp up and be a world power again. We forgot how to build things that build things.

MFG was a strange beast. Funny story. I once worked at a 'green factory' that suppose to have no waste. There were no or very few garbage cans. The place was a dump because you weren't allowed to throw anything away. People would hide garbage anywhere they could. You would look behind something and there would be wrapper and packaging. It was insane and hysterical. But they were 'green'.
 Quoting: Old Custer



Very good point on work ethic. I see the new talent come in and there are a few bright stars, but I also see a significant lack of commitment and lack of "big system" awareness.

I too did the consulting thing early on, started with big companies and eventually ended up with my own s-corp consulting gig...but and India-based consulting company came in for peanuts per hour and they cleared out all the independents, but offered me a job, which I took.


Pretty funny on the green thing, but with management like that, it kind of sounds like a nightmare.
BeelzeBob

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10/17/2019 10:36 AM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Every single human is replaceable in the “work force.” You had to be taught to do what you do, and there will always be someone willing to learn what you do for less money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78056128


True if given the time and resource. Instead of the normal ebb and flow of new employees and retiring employees, this go-round we will see a situation where too many leave at once creating panic hiring and panic promoting.

In many cases those left behind must continue to support things that can't be broken/down for long periods of time while they learn. If the exiting people don't train the arriving people, obtaining that knowledge becomes a second job and sometimes very difficult.


Now if you use packaged systems (e.g. SAP) the gap filling becomes much easier. The custom code and applications is where it gets dicey, especially in complex systems.
 Quoting: BeelzeBob


Thats our problem. we have a lot of homebrew workflows to connect systems that were never designed to talk. I can see why going to a platform makes sense vs investing in developers to keep it talking. The problem is every IT salesman promises the world for cheap. Once you hand everything over the cost of getting it back becomes extreme. It would be like if I paid someone to manage my life. Good luck if that relationship ever goes south, or if they up their rates. They pretty much have you by the balls at that point. that's 90% of the MSP business strategy.
 Quoting: Old Custer


Yes, once they have the software in and years of historical data, it's just milking the hell out of the cow. It is difficult and expensive to replace big systems so they run the cost up just enough to make it uncomfortable but tolerable.

Last Edited by BeelzeBob on 10/17/2019 10:36 AM
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 09:54 PM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Bump for second shift.
KIT
User ID: 76127092
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10/17/2019 10:06 PM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I run 16 sites, 200 computers, 30 printers, 20 servers, 200 voip phones. I built a full blown cisco network, all cisco wifi, all cisco vpn. I do all the computer deployment, I provision all of the servers, I provision all of the switches. I handle all of the IT for an organization spread out across 16 physical sites with about 10 departments. 200 end users.

I have zero staff.

Why do you need so many IT staff?
Old Custer  (OP)

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10/17/2019 10:25 PM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I run 16 sites, 200 computers, 30 printers, 20 servers, 200 voip phones. I built a full blown cisco network, all cisco wifi, all cisco vpn. I do all the computer deployment, I provision all of the servers, I provision all of the switches. I handle all of the IT for an organization spread out across 16 physical sites with about 10 departments. 200 end users.

I have zero staff.

Why do you need so many IT staff?
 Quoting: KIT 76127092


Thousands of end users, over a thousand servers, hundreds of apps/services, VDI and SBC managed environments for end-users (very few PCs). Hundreds of sites/locations. The list goes on.
KIT
User ID: 76127092
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10/17/2019 10:28 PM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
I run 16 sites, 200 computers, 30 printers, 20 servers, 200 voip phones. I built a full blown cisco network, all cisco wifi, all cisco vpn. I do all the computer deployment, I provision all of the servers, I provision all of the switches. I handle all of the IT for an organization spread out across 16 physical sites with about 10 departments. 200 end users.

I have zero staff.

Why do you need so many IT staff?
 Quoting: KIT 76127092


Thousands of end users, over a thousand servers, hundreds of apps/services, VDI and SBC managed environments for end-users (very few PCs). Hundreds of sites/locations. The list goes on.
 Quoting: Old Custer


Then don't worry about it. You got plenty to do.

My suggestion is put on as many hats as you can and cross train on as many systems as you can.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2019 10:48 PM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Not that I blame them. So many deadbeats in their IT dept, just collecting a check. Right now we're pulling information for quotes. All we keep hearing is:

'nobody is going to lose their job'
'what you do may change'
'this is going to free you up to do important work'

I sat long and hard and thought about it and came up with a few thoughts, nobody was going to lose their job why would they outsource. Whats the point. They're just gonna keep paying people for redundancy. I would they justify salary of 3 senior network engineers when they outsourced the network management. Does this mean they'll offer people lower paying jobs within the company.

Even if I was one of the 'lucky' ones what type of advancement opportunities would there actually be. If the department lost 90% of its people then management within the department just got 1000x more competitive.

Just sucks because nobody is worried. Its like they're all in denial and they want to believe. Sometimes i wish I was an idiot. Thanks for letting me rant GLP brethren.
 Quoting: Old Custer



Better start looking. If you're smart that is...
embu
User ID: 76993552
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10/17/2019 10:54 PM
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Re: Company is looking to outsource. "nobody is going to lose their jobs"
Not that I blame them. So many deadbeats in their IT dept, just collecting a check. Right now we're pulling information for quotes. All we keep hearing is:

'nobody is going to lose their job'
'what you do may change'
'this is going to free you up to do important work'

I sat long and hard and thought about it and came up with a few thoughts, nobody was going to lose their job why would they outsource. Whats the point. They're just gonna keep paying people for redundancy. I would they justify salary of 3 senior network engineers when they outsourced the network management. Does this mean they'll offer people lower paying jobs within the company.

Even if I was one of the 'lucky' ones what type of advancement opportunities would there actually be. If the department lost 90% of its people then management within the department just got 1000x more competitive.

Just sucks because nobody is worried. Its like they're all in denial and they want to believe. Sometimes i wish I was an idiot. Thanks for letting me rant GLP brethren.
 Quoting: Old Custer


with all of the companies so desperate to get help, if people are losing their jobs, they must really, really be doing a poor job.





GLP