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Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje

 
Anonymous Coward
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Greece
11/07/2019 04:07 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
if i Was there i would tap her on the shoulder and recommend she get that mental health issue looked at.

Listen lady your the only person seeing things. you need that looked at pronto.
ljsikes

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11/07/2019 04:07 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
...


Also, Mary was a virgin only once. Then she had sex with her husband Joseph and had children.

She did not remain a virgin.

Calling her the virgin mary is ridiculous, but worshipping her is much worse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78072502

Speaking of ridiculous—where does it say in the Bible, or anywhere else, that Mary and Joseph had a sex? Not that there would be anything sinful about it, but there was no reason for them to have such a relationship; they were both consecrated souls. That Mary and Joseph were both perpetual virgins is Catholic belief, which non-Catholics are free to reject. That Jesus was “firstborn” does not mean that Mary gave birth to subsequent children; the term referred to the first child to open the womb.

The word in the biblical passage that speaks of Jesus’ brothers and sisters translates as “close relatives”, such as cousins.

Again, no mentally balanced Catholics worship Mary; to do so would constitute idolatry. Mary is given honor and veneration, which is distinctly different from the worship that is due God alone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159



It's answered in Matthew 1:24 - 25:

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

So obviously there was nothing going on while Mary was pregnant with Jesus, but afterwards they did.
 Quoting: ljsikes

How do you know this? As Protestants are so fond of saying, where is that in the Bible? or anywhere else?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I listed the chapter and verse. You can see it for yourself.
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Bebe

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11/07/2019 04:09 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
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Sorry but your asking “Who is she really?” about Mirjana sounds accusatory and is frustrating. These apparitions of Mary over in Bosnia have been going on daily with these kids (now adults) daily for over 38 years and STILL. people act like they just started now. The same old objections, the same lame atheistic reasons this must be “fake” or “demonic”. How about Ochams razor: the simplest answer tends to be the right one: Mary knows 99.9% of Catholics need a kick in the ass to wake up and be born again. God allows her to appear to WAKE PEOPLE UP while there’s still time. Like any good mother would do. She cries for a reason.
 Quoting: Bebe

You are a hate filled hypocrite.


Look in a mirror...while there is time.
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Satan? That you?!? Haha I’m so sorry you’re being outwitted (again) by a woman! And now she’s the Queen of Saints in an ultimate paradise which YOU rejected. you That’s gotta sting.
 Quoting: Bebe


Just out of curiosity do you also call her the Queen of Heaven?
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


She is the woman in Revelation 12 “clothed with the sun (Son!!) and crowned with 12 stars”. She is also the Old Testament’s Queen “arrayed in gold, standing at the King’s right hand” It’s not what “I” call her, it’s who she is. Satan can’t stand it. Boo boo. Should’ve thought of that in his fitful jealous rage back in the Garden. Too late.
Bebe
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:09 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
i will only appear to this one person


very credible


look mary, we asked god to punish the wicked and you bring this

gtfo5
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77988649


That's not Mary.

The real one would want to save the human race from a fate worse than death.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78147512

If you read some of the messages of Medjugorge, you will see that’s exactly what she is trying to do
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:12 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
This whole "Virgin Mary" nonsense is leading people astray at an alarming rate.

They pray to Mary, not God.
They worship Mary, not God.
They ask Mary to pray for the souls of the dead, when they should know the Bible clearly states to not pray for the dead because once you are dead, God is in complete control of your soul then, not you or not some other dead person that can veto or overwrite God....
And more and more and more.....

It's all part of this "Feminine spirit" uprising. Some people call it the Jezzabel spirit, probably a bad name for it since it encompasses way more than what we knew about Jezzy.

We are seeing it unfold right in front of our eyes, as the "Virgin Mary" appears, we see the rise of radical, crazed "feminists", that are not feminist at all. We see the blurring of the lines between "male and female" just like this "apparition" appearing as a female when it is obviously not.
We see the demolition of demonstrable and provable scientific data showing the differences between male and female and are brainwashed into believing "Men can have babies too, and there is no difference between men and women, you can be whatever you want!"...........

All while the "Virgin Mary" makes herself known and more of this follows..it's so obvious a blind man could see it....

and the list goes on and on and on....but those with eyes to see and ears to hear know whats going on, and those Catholics that were brainwashed will just argue and argue against it without putting any thought into it at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70317017


You are obviously retarded and misinformed

Catholics don't worship Mary or pray to her. They ask her to pray for us which is biblical. Saints and angels in heaven pray for us

She also is Jesus mother and he said she is now our mother. You can talk to your mother and ask her about anything

You are misinformed and angry
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:12 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
EU flag is a crown of twelve stars.

Mary wears a crown of twelve stars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76832089


Yep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18233550


and there are twelve months in the year..
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:13 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
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Speaking of ridiculous—where does it say in the Bible, or anywhere else, that Mary and Joseph had a sex? Not that there would be anything sinful about it, but there was no reason for them to have such a relationship; they were both consecrated souls. That Mary and Joseph were both perpetual virgins is Catholic belief, which non-Catholics are free to reject. That Jesus was “firstborn” does not mean that Mary gave birth to subsequent children; the term referred to the first child to open the womb.

The word in the biblical passage that speaks of Jesus’ brothers and sisters translates as “close relatives”, such as cousins.

Again, no mentally balanced Catholics worship Mary; to do so would constitute idolatry. Mary is given honor and veneration, which is distinctly different from the worship that is due God alone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159



It's answered in Matthew 1:24 - 25:

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

So obviously there was nothing going on while Mary was pregnant with Jesus, but afterwards they did.
 Quoting: ljsikes

How do you know this? As Protestants are so fond of saying, where is that in the Bible? or anywhere else?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I listed the chapter and verse. You can see it for yourself.
 Quoting: ljsikes

Where? If you infer that “firstborn” means that Mary gave birth to children after Jesus, you need to do a bit of research. The term referred to the first child to open the womb, and does not imply that there were subsequent births.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:15 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
Funny.

As a confirmed Catholic myself I do not feel obligated to believe every POTENTIAL CHARLATAN that claims to have seen or heard the mother of our Lord.
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum

You are not even obliged to believe in Church-approved apparitions, such as Lourdes and Fatima.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:15 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
EU flag is a crown of twelve stars.

Mary wears a crown of twelve stars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76832089


....there are twelve hours each in AM and PM...
ljsikes

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11/07/2019 04:16 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
...



It's answered in Matthew 1:24 - 25:

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

So obviously there was nothing going on while Mary was pregnant with Jesus, but afterwards they did.
 Quoting: ljsikes

How do you know this? As Protestants are so fond of saying, where is that in the Bible? or anywhere else?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I listed the chapter and verse. You can see it for yourself.
 Quoting: ljsikes

Where? If you infer that “firstborn” means that Mary gave birth to children after Jesus, you need to do a bit of research. The term referred to the first child to open the womb, and does not imply that there were subsequent births.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I was responding to the question of whether Joseph and Mary ever had sex. They certainly would not have while Mary was carrying Jesus. But they did afterwards according to Matthew 1:25.
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Builder of the Adytum

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11/07/2019 04:17 PM

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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
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You are a hate filled hypocrite.


Look in a mirror...while there is time.
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Satan? That you?!? Haha I’m so sorry you’re being outwitted (again) by a woman! And now she’s the Queen of Saints in an ultimate paradise which YOU rejected. you That’s gotta sting.
 Quoting: Bebe


Just out of curiosity do you also call her the Queen of Heaven?
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


She is the woman in Revelation 12 “clothed with the sun (Son!!) and crowned with 12 stars”. She is also the Old Testament’s Queen “arrayed in gold, standing at the King’s right hand” It’s not what “I” call her, it’s who she is. Satan can’t stand it. Boo boo. Should’ve thought of that in his fitful jealous rage back in the Garden. Too late.
 Quoting: Bebe

I notice you didn't answer the question directly.
Builder of the Adytum

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11/07/2019 04:18 PM

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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
Funny.

As a confirmed Catholic myself I do not feel obligated to believe every POTENTIAL CHARLATAN that claims to have seen or heard the mother of our Lord.
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum

You are not even obliged to believe in Church-approved apparitions, such as Lourdes and Fatima.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


Precisely.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:25 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
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How do you know this? As Protestants are so fond of saying, where is that in the Bible? or anywhere else?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I listed the chapter and verse. You can see it for yourself.
 Quoting: ljsikes

Where? If you infer that “firstborn” means that Mary gave birth to children after Jesus, you need to do a bit of research. The term referred to the first child to open the womb, and does not imply that there were subsequent births.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I was responding to the question of whether Joseph and Mary ever had sex. They certainly would not have while Mary was carrying Jesus. But they did afterwards according to Matthew 1:25.
 Quoting: ljsikes

You still offer no proof of your assertion, and I have replied to you twice.
Bebe

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11/07/2019 04:26 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
if i Was there i would tap her on the shoulder and recommend she get that mental health issue looked at.

Listen lady your the only person seeing things. you need that looked at pronto.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77988649


Mega-sigh. Again: these kids have been tested by all sorts of scientists and psychiatrists and psychologists over the years. What a novel thought to consider ruling out mental illness first. My eyes are going to get stuck having to roll them back so often in discussions like this.
Bebe
Builder of the Adytum

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11/07/2019 04:30 PM

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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
And funny how the people that are always telling me how they don't judge others certainly seem to be judging me.

Bergoglio says "who am I to judge?"



But then he tells me...


"You are not a Christian if you support your president."

"You are not a Christian if you own guns."

(Despite the fact he is surrounded by armed guards who have a huge arsenal in the Vatican.)

"You are not a Christian if you believe your nation has a right to turn away people that would enter it illegally."

(Despite the fact that he lives in a medieval palace/fortress surrounded by high walls.)


SMH
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:33 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
I don't believe Mary would make a miraculous visitation just to say what everyone already knows.

Same as Knock...Mary and company wouldn't show up just to stand there like a statue. They stood like statues because they WERE statues.
ljsikes

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11/07/2019 04:33 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
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I listed the chapter and verse. You can see it for yourself.
 Quoting: ljsikes

Where? If you infer that “firstborn” means that Mary gave birth to children after Jesus, you need to do a bit of research. The term referred to the first child to open the womb, and does not imply that there were subsequent births.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I was responding to the question of whether Joseph and Mary ever had sex. They certainly would not have while Mary was carrying Jesus. But they did afterwards according to Matthew 1:25.
 Quoting: ljsikes

You still offer no proof of your assertion, and I have replied to you twice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


The proof is in verse 25.
It's right there in that verse - He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

It's throughout the bible.

In Genesis, Adam knew his wife, and she conceived (gen 4:1)
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived (17)
Adam knew his wife again (25)


In Judges there is this: But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

When the bible speaks of knowing a woman (or a man, as in the case of Lot), it's speaking of sex.

And there is nothing at all wrong with Joseph and Mary having sex. They were married.
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Bebe

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11/07/2019 04:35 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
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Satan? That you?!? Haha I’m so sorry you’re being outwitted (again) by a woman! And now she’s the Queen of Saints in an ultimate paradise which YOU rejected. you That’s gotta sting.
 Quoting: Bebe


Just out of curiosity do you also call her the Queen of Heaven?
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


She is the woman in Revelation 12 “clothed with the sun (Son!!) and crowned with 12 stars”. She is also the Old Testament’s Queen “arrayed in gold, standing at the King’s right hand” It’s not what “I” call her, it’s who she is. Satan can’t stand it. Boo boo. Should’ve thought of that in his fitful jealous rage back in the Garden. Too late.
 Quoting: Bebe

I notice you didn't answer the question directly.
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


I call her Mary or the Blessed Mother. She has a ton of titles (Ark of the Covenant, Queen of Peace, Tower of Ivory, Refuge of Sinners, etc etc) but there is nothing “wrong” or anti-Biblical in calling her the Queen of Heaven. So my answer would be Yes.
Bebe
Bebe

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11/07/2019 04:45 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
And funny how the people that are always telling me how they don't judge others certainly seem to be judging me.

Bergoglio says "who am I to judge?"



But then he tells me...


"You are not a Christian if you support your president."

"You are not a Christian if you own guns."

(Despite the fact he is surrounded by armed guards who have a huge arsenal in the Vatican.)

"You are not a Christian if you believe your nation has a right to turn away people that would enter it illegally."

(Despite the fact that he lives in a medieval palace/fortress surrounded by high walls.)


SMH
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Well....... let’s just say Francis has some major issues. He could well be the False Prophet. Makes sense in these end times. I think John Paul II foresaw these days, what a saint he was (is)!! Francis does NOT speak for sincere, devout, intelligent Catholics who are born again and “WOKE”.
Bebe
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 04:49 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
...

Where? If you infer that “firstborn” means that Mary gave birth to children after Jesus, you need to do a bit of research. The term referred to the first child to open the womb, and does not imply that there were subsequent births.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I was responding to the question of whether Joseph and Mary ever had sex. They certainly would not have while Mary was carrying Jesus. But they did afterwards according to Matthew 1:25.
 Quoting: ljsikes

You still offer no proof of your assertion, and I have replied to you twice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


The proof is in verse 25.
It's right there in that verse - He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

It's throughout the bible.

In Genesis, Adam knew his wife, and she conceived (gen 4:1)
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived (17)
Adam knew his wife again (25)


In Judges there is this: But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

When the bible speaks of knowing a woman (or a man, as in the case of Lot), it's speaking of sex.

And there is nothing at all wrong with Joseph and Mary having sex. They were married.
 Quoting: ljsikes

You are inferring that Joseph “knew” Mary after the birth of Jesus, and that is not stated whatsoever. The scripture passage you reference simply discounts any possibility of Joseph having been the biolological father of Jesus, that’s all.

You are right that there would have been nothing wrong with Joseph and Mary having intercourse, since they were husband and wife, but there was simply no reason for them to have such a relationship. According to Church tradition (largely discarded by Protestants) both Mary and Joseph were consecrated virgins, and married only to cooperate with God’s will to provide Jesus with an earthly Family. People automatically think in carnal terms, but the fact is that not everyone those urges, and some with high callings are given the gift (yes, gift) of celibacy.
Builder of the Adytum

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11/07/2019 04:50 PM

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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
And funny how the people that are always telling me how they don't judge others certainly seem to be judging me.

Bergoglio says "who am I to judge?"



But then he tells me...


"You are not a Christian if you support your president."

"You are not a Christian if you own guns."

(Despite the fact he is surrounded by armed guards who have a huge arsenal in the Vatican.)

"You are not a Christian if you believe your nation has a right to turn away people that would enter it illegally."

(Despite the fact that he lives in a medieval palace/fortress surrounded by high walls.)


SMH
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Well....... let’s just say Francis has some major issues. He could well be the False Prophet. Makes sense in these end times. I think John Paul II foresaw these days, what a saint he was (is)!! Francis does NOT speak for sincere, devout, intelligent Catholics who are born again and “WOKE”.
 Quoting: Bebe

I'm glad we agree on that.



As for these apparitions, even Catholics have a right and perhaps a duty, in my opinion to be skeptical and not just take things at face value.


Someone has to play the devil's advocate.

;)
Bebe

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11/07/2019 04:52 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
I don't believe Mary would make a miraculous visitation just to say what everyone already knows.

Same as Knock...Mary and company wouldn't show up just to stand there like a statue. They stood like statues because they WERE statues.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76320280


Really? Were you there?? I’ve been to Knock. Entire villages cane out to witness this silent apparition in the rain. They must all be colluding with Russia to keep this fake-Mary story going. I’m gonna need waaaay more eye drops since the rolling of my eyes is non-stop on this thread.
Bebe
FHL(C)

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11/07/2019 04:57 PM

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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
By analogy rome is a ship of state, and all hands( pedophile priests and prelates in particular )are on the poopdeck , drunken on the blood of innocents down the ages, cathoholics venerate witchcraft under the guise of mariolatry, practise idolatry and demonic possession under Instruction of ghey pedavores claimg to be fathers, and want their control of nations back from the US and cabalist talmudics, so they invoke demons they orginally birthed , eg chrislam to unify the middle east under the fattyma deceptions and mafia doctrines.
Now i understand better the mexico cia mafias fiasco. Its not just drug addiction and mammon, its worldview wars being fought by politicoreligious whores, all daughters of the gratewhore.
Anonymous Coward
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Greece
11/07/2019 05:04 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
no the problem is and what I am showing is that there are NUTTERS in christain world

they claim all sorts of wild shit and build a gang of people around them to keep the party going

christains will defend some of then tooth and nail.


shift back a gear, dont get fooled by crazy people. you may have good morals and values, not everyone is like you!!!!
Bebe

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11/07/2019 05:09 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
And funny how the people that are always telling me how they don't judge others certainly seem to be judging me.

Bergoglio says "who am I to judge?"



But then he tells me...


"You are not a Christian if you support your president."

"You are not a Christian if you own guns."

(Despite the fact he is surrounded by armed guards who have a huge arsenal in the Vatican.)

"You are not a Christian if you believe your nation has a right to turn away people that would enter it illegally."

(Despite the fact that he lives in a medieval palace/fortress surrounded by high walls.)


SMH
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Well....... let’s just say Francis has some major issues. He could well be the False Prophet. Makes sense in these end times. I think John Paul II foresaw these days, what a saint he was (is)!! Francis does NOT speak for sincere, devout, intelligent Catholics who are born again and “WOKE”.
 Quoting: Bebe

I'm glad we agree on that.



As for these apparitions, even Catholics have a right and perhaps a duty, in my opinion to be skeptical and not just take things at face value.


Someone has to play the devil's advocate.

;)
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Totally agree! And that’s exactly why I talked my poor husband at the time into detouring down to Herzegovina back in 1987 when we were in Europe. I wanted to do exactly what you’re suggesting: look into these so-called visions in this little Communist village like an investigative journalist. I had seen a BBC videotape in which the journalists basically thought something supernatural was going on in Medjugorje. Anyway, this was way before all the millions of pilgrimaged and people around the world even heard of, let alone, visited Medjugorje. Which was great because I WAS there as a skeptic. We talked to Maria and Vicka (through an interpreter). Maria was very serious and Vick’s just shone like the bubbly extrovert she still is. As an ex-prosecutor, I asked them simple and direct questions. They were long-suffering and gracious and you could just sense they didn’t care if you believed them, they were seeing her. I looked around, these people were dirt poor, they weren’t obviously under the influence of anything nor apparently delusional. The message they conveyed from Mary was simple: get back to my Son, there’s a war on for your souls”. There was no angle for fame or money...and I’m pretty sure the chicken we had for dinner that night had previously been running around us that afternoon as we spoke to the visionaries. Going to check this out took some guts, especially with my reluctant spouse. Getting on Air Croatia in Sweden for the flight to Zagreb was a leap of faith but I’m so glad I explored it. My conclusion is that, at least for me, a skeptical attorney, Mary is here to sound the warning like Paul Revere. Only it's not the British this time. It’s the demonic realm and old Lucifer himself. Sore loser.
Bebe
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11/07/2019 05:19 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
And funny how the people that are always telling me how they don't judge others certainly seem to be judging me.

Bergoglio says "who am I to judge?"



But then he tells me...


"You are not a Christian if you support your president."

"You are not a Christian if you own guns."

(Despite the fact he is surrounded by armed guards who have a huge arsenal in the Vatican.)

"You are not a Christian if you believe your nation has a right to turn away people that would enter it illegally."

(Despite the fact that he lives in a medieval palace/fortress surrounded by high walls.)


SMH
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Well....... let’s just say Francis has some major issues. He could well be the False Prophet. Makes sense in these end times. I think John Paul II foresaw these days, what a saint he was (is)!! Francis does NOT speak for sincere, devout, intelligent Catholics who are born again and “WOKE”.
 Quoting: Bebe

I'm glad we agree on that.



As for these apparitions, even Catholics have a right and perhaps a duty, in my opinion to be skeptical and not just take things at face value.


Someone has to play the devil's advocate.

;)
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum

The FP will be elected by invalid means, such as an electronic vote. Pope Francis does not qualify, as he was validly-elected by way of the centuries-old traditional process. There have been “bad” popes in Church history who were nonetheless valid. It remains to be determined, however, whether or not some of Pope Francis’ official decisions or proclamations (not his off-the-cuff remarks or media-manipulated comments) pave the way for a counterfeit. Whatever the case, coming events have been long-prophesied, and we have been assured that the gates of H***l will not prevail against Christ’s Church.
Builder of the Adytum

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11/07/2019 05:20 PM

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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
And funny how the people that are always telling me how they don't judge others certainly seem to be judging me.

Bergoglio says "who am I to judge?"



But then he tells me...


"You are not a Christian if you support your president."

"You are not a Christian if you own guns."

(Despite the fact he is surrounded by armed guards who have a huge arsenal in the Vatican.)

"You are not a Christian if you believe your nation has a right to turn away people that would enter it illegally."

(Despite the fact that he lives in a medieval palace/fortress surrounded by high walls.)


SMH
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Well....... let’s just say Francis has some major issues. He could well be the False Prophet. Makes sense in these end times. I think John Paul II foresaw these days, what a saint he was (is)!! Francis does NOT speak for sincere, devout, intelligent Catholics who are born again and “WOKE”.
 Quoting: Bebe

I'm glad we agree on that.



As for these apparitions, even Catholics have a right and perhaps a duty, in my opinion to be skeptical and not just take things at face value.


Someone has to play the devil's advocate.

;)
 Quoting: Builder of the Adytum


Totally agree! And that’s exactly why I talked my poor husband at the time into detouring down to Herzegovina back in 1987 when we were in Europe. I wanted to do exactly what you’re suggesting: look into these so-called visions in this little Communist village like an investigative journalist. I had seen a BBC videotape in which the journalists basically thought something supernatural was going on in Medjugorje. Anyway, this was way before all the millions of pilgrimaged and people around the world even heard of, let alone, visited Medjugorje. Which was great because I WAS there as a skeptic. We talked to Maria and Vicka (through an interpreter). Maria was very serious and Vick’s just shone like the bubbly extrovert she still is. As an ex-prosecutor, I asked them simple and direct questions. They were long-suffering and gracious and you could just sense they didn’t care if you believed them, they were seeing her. I looked around, these people were dirt poor, they weren’t obviously under the influence of anything nor apparently delusional. The message they conveyed from Mary was simple: get back to my Son, there’s a war on for your souls”. There was no angle for fame or money...and I’m pretty sure the chicken we had for dinner that night had previously been running around us that afternoon as we spoke to the visionaries. Going to check this out took some guts, especially with my reluctant spouse. Getting on Air Croatia in Sweden for the flight to Zagreb was a leap of faith but I’m so glad I explored it. My conclusion is that, at least for me, a skeptical attorney, Mary is here to sound the warning like Paul Revere. Only it's not the British this time. It’s the demonic realm and old Lucifer himself. Sore loser.
 Quoting: Bebe

Ok, well let's take it easy on each other then, I suppose.


We are on the same side pretty much from what I can see.


And I have not said that I believe she must be a charlatan.

Good for you travelling there to investigate.


Have a good one.


Peace --

In the peace of Christ.



In Pacem Christi
ljsikes

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11/07/2019 05:27 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
...


I was responding to the question of whether Joseph and Mary ever had sex. They certainly would not have while Mary was carrying Jesus. But they did afterwards according to Matthew 1:25.
 Quoting: ljsikes

You still offer no proof of your assertion, and I have replied to you twice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


The proof is in verse 25.
It's right there in that verse - He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.

It's throughout the bible.

In Genesis, Adam knew his wife, and she conceived (gen 4:1)
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived (17)
Adam knew his wife again (25)


In Judges there is this: But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

When the bible speaks of knowing a woman (or a man, as in the case of Lot), it's speaking of sex.

And there is nothing at all wrong with Joseph and Mary having sex. They were married.
 Quoting: ljsikes

You are inferring that Joseph “knew” Mary after the birth of Jesus, and that is not stated whatsoever. The scripture passage you reference simply discounts any possibility of Joseph having been the biolological father of Jesus, that’s all.

You are right that there would have been nothing wrong with Joseph and Mary having intercourse, since they were husband and wife, but there was simply no reason for them to have such a relationship. According to Church tradition (largely discarded by Protestants) both Mary and Joseph were consecrated virgins, and married only to cooperate with God’s will to provide Jesus with an earthly Family. People automatically think in carnal terms, but the fact is that not everyone those urges, and some with high callings are given the gift (yes, gift) of celibacy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70175159


I'm not inferring. It comes down to how that particular passage should be interpreted. Is it in harmony with other such passages? What was the intent of the passage?
Just as you say there was no reason for them to have a relationship like that, I say there is an actual verse in the bible that indicates they did. Church tradition may state one thing, but where is that tradition backed up or validated in God's word?

And it's not just a Roman Catholic thing, so please don't think I'm attacking you or your church. Many churches have traditions which aren't supported by scripture.

I'll also add that whether or not Joseph and Mary actually had a relationship like that doesn't really matter. It doesn't change the fact that Mary was blessed. And it doesn't change anything regarding our Lord.
Christian. Husband. Father. Veteran.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2019 05:29 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
Angels are the messengers of God, not dead human beings. The Bible makes this clear. No one there "tested the spirit" as the Bible commands you to do in such a situation. Not one word was mentioned about the apparition stating to them "I'm a messenger of God" as the Bible clearly states they do upon arrival. The apparition never stated "Jesus Christ has came in the flesh", as the Bible mentions as a test of the spirits, as demonic spirits are not able to utter such words.

Looks like clear demonic deception to me. Maybe I should go ask some Earthly man to absolve me of my sins (Since that's how Catholics roll, which renders Jesus completely useless) and follow his orders to light candles and send up a prayer to a dead female human though, just in case I'm wrong. I'll make sure I do this in front of a giant, idolatrous statue of her and wait for the Vicar of Christ (In place of Christ) aka The Pope, to tell me what to think, because reading Gods Word to man is useless, only the Vicar of Christ speaks for God.

Or maybe....I'll just see it for it obviously is. Clear demonic deception.
Bebe

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11/07/2019 05:29 PM
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Re: Virgin Mary has just appeared in Medjugorje
Same to you. These are exciting times, we’re actually lucky to be living now. Stay strong.
Bebe





GLP