Millions of people are in heaven, really? According to who and doing what? If so how did they get to earth?

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Very sad

So are the dead in heaven as claimed in church or are they dead in the ground until the resurrection as the Teacher said?
"Most truly I say to you, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have paid attention will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man. 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me." jo5:25

Last Edited by DGN on 11/30/2019 11:53 AM

“Today you shall be with me in paradise. “
Jesus Christ

Where did Jesus go that day?

can you count?

He went to the center of the earth.

That is molten magma, you mean the common grave where the dead await resurrection? "Most truly I say to you, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have paid attention will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man. 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me." Jo5:25

Jesus didn’t even go anywhere for three days. So no one went to paradise that day.

The grave.

Right he was talking about the resurrection some 2,000 years later, no one went to heaven then.
"After he had suffered, he showed himself alive to them by many convincing proofs. He was seen by them throughout 40 days, and he was speaking about the Kingdom of God. 4 While he was meeting with them, he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which you heard from me; 5 for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.” Ac1:3

I think that heaven would be boring after about 15 minutes.

DogoneMan I always enjoy your opposition to a fresh start to achieve global Garden of Eden but that's the limpest boringist thing you've said so far. Those chosen to serve as assistant kings have engaged a great inspiring project even now and after Armageddon will be directing/organizing making provisions for millions of resurrected ones.

Now let's be honest. Would it take a little longer than 15 minutes to get boring? Some people think that eventually they would ask whoever is in charge to just turn out the lights.

No that's what's coming down here;
"And the 24 elders who were seated before God on their thrones fell upon their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” Rv11:18

Last Edited by DGN on 12/03/2019 10:17 AM

Yes the ones who wrote the Bible were also full of questions, humans like me and you.

Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 19:1
After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “HalleluYAH! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Adonai our God!

Why doesn't the watchtower reference Revelation 19:1 with 7:9, Because it destroys their doctrine of the heavenly class and the earthly class

DGN will one day wish that he was never born

Because the great multitude at Rv7:9 come thru the tribulation on earth, the other great multitude, the 144,000 are serving as assistant kings in heaven.

The body is dead the souls are not but are in heaven


Chapter 13 read and be amazed

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That's Life.

So the great crowd and the great multitude are different? We need a terminology book with definitions. If the two are the same, there's a definite contradiction. That doesn't even touch on "assistant kings". Lordy.

"Consequently, those of the great crowd expect to remain on earth forever and to share in bringing it to a Paradise state. " Watchtower 1980 Aug 15 p.17

Last Edited by Nine's - IN MEMORIAM on 12/03/2019 06:26 PM

The Greek of Revelation 7:9 for Great Multitude is exactly the same words as the Greek of Revelation 19:1 for Great Multitude.


polys ochios

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JW Bible; Revelation 19:1 Great Crowd

JW Bible; Revelation 7:9 Crowd Much


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Last Edited by 232 on 12/03/2019 06:48 PM

Thank you. That was very helpful.

"I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust. 21 Who really knows whether the spirit of humans ascends upward, and whether the spirit of animals descends down to the earth? 22 And I saw that there is nothing better than for a man to find enjoyment in his work, because that is his reward; for who can enable him to see what will happen after he is gone?" Ecc3:18

Last Edited by DGN on 12/03/2019 07:27 PM

So, 232 showed the great crowd were in heaven. So are the little flock the same as the great crowd. Or is this info incorrect? I doubt that you will care, but if you're trying to teach, rather than program, it will be important to some.

They believe the 144,000 (which they consider to be synonymous with the "little flock" of Luke 12:32) will serve with Christ as king-priests for a thousand years, while all other people accepted by God (the "other sheep" of John 10:16, composed of "the great crowd" of Revelation 7:9,14 and the resurrected "righteous and the unrighteous" ones of Acts 24:15), will be given an opportunity to live forever in a restored paradise on earth.
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Also, before you ban me from the thread, is there any scripture in the Bible you can give that mentions Jesus needing or having any "assistant Kings"?

That's right.

No there's no scripture citing Jesus, Jehovah's Master Worker (Pr31:28) ever needing anything at all from claymation humadroids. Really now School Mom did you ever need anything from your Little Rascals?