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Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.

 
Photine
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02/13/2020 09:25 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
John 14:22 (GNTA)
Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "Lord, how can it be that you will reveal yourself to us and not to the world?"

drevil
Photine
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02/13/2020 09:33 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
2 Esdras 16:56
At his Word the stars were fixed, and he knows the number of the stars

Rev 1:16
and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance is as the sun shining in its might.

drevil
Photine
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02/13/2020 09:44 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
2 Esdras 16:56
At his Word the stars were fixed, and he knows the number of the stars

Rev 1:16
and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance is as the sun shining in its might.

drevil
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Daniel 12:3 (WYC)
they that be taught, [or wise,] shall shine as the shining of the firmament, they that teach many men to rightfulness, shall shine as stars into everlasting everlastingnesses.
Photine
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02/13/2020 09:51 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Matt 13:11
"the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

drevil
Photine
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02/13/2020 10:07 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Exodus 31:3 New International Version
3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills—

Genesis 41:38-39 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
38 And he said to them: Can we find such another man, that is full of the spirit of God?
39 He said therefore to Joseph: Seeing God hath shewn thee all that thou hast said, can I find one wiser and one like unto thee?

1 Corinthians 1:24 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
24 But unto them that are called, both Je.ws and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

drevil
Bee Free

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02/13/2020 10:23 PM

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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
...


Incomprehensible.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


As a dime to a poor man remains hope..

He can manifest bread..

In the absence of man..

In the absence of a leader hope remains..

With assurance aid was sent..

Beyond a fading note..

Help was sent..

All encompassing for beyond reason sometimes is necessary..
 Quoting: mouse..


Is all of this babbling, really just you trying to rationalize the existence a non-Jesus Holy Spirit?

Am I following, Mouse???
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


"I've remembered all you said"..

"I've remembered all He said"..

Guide my hands..

Guide my tounge..

Guide my feet..
 Quoting: mouse..


Hi, Mouse. I'd like to understand your position on the nature and identity of the Holy Spirit. I've read your questions and remarks in Photine's last couple of threads, but I suspect they're only a tiny fraction of the ongoing discussion you guys have going.

From your most recent posts, it seems you're describing a specific role of the Spirit you feel is unique and distinct from Jesus Christ. Is that right? If so, is this unique and distinct role what makes the existence of another divine entity (other than Jesus) necessary? Or is it more of a scriptural matter for you?

I'd appreciate anything you could to tell me about your beliefs and why you believe them. Anything at all. Thanks :)
Photine
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02/13/2020 10:24 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
2 Chronicles 24:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 Then the Spirit of God came on Zechariah son of Jehoiada the priest. He stood before the people and said, “This is what God says: ‘Why do you disobey the Lord’s commands? You will not prosper. Because you have forsaken the Lord, he has forsaken you.’”

21 But they plotted against him, and by order of the king they stoned him to death in the courtyard of the Lord’s temple.
Bee Free

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02/13/2020 10:39 PM

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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Evening, Photine. Mind if I trouble you for your thoughts on a reading I was doing earlier today? It's some real rudimentary kind of stuff. Possibly more basic than Christianity 101.
Photine
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02/13/2020 10:41 PM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Evening, Photine. Mind if I trouble you for your thoughts on a reading I was doing earlier today? It's some real rudimentary kind of stuff. Possibly more basic than Christianity 101.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Proceed.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 12:04 AM

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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Evening, Photine. Mind if I trouble you for your thoughts on a reading I was doing earlier today? It's some real rudimentary kind of stuff. Possibly more basic than Christianity 101.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Proceed.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


I was reading over these verses:

John 6:51-52
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the J.ews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."

The controversy here has continuously come up for as long as I've been paying attention to debates within/against Christianity. One side attempts to make the words of Christ into something sinister. As in, a literal interpretation of eating flesh and drinking blood.

Still, most others (even non-believers) explain the words of Christ as symbolic, and detail what the symbolism is meant to represent. They usually draw from other passages to make their arguments.

But, as I re-read the following verses, it seems traversing beyond this passage isn't necessary.

John 6:61
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

He just got through saying "this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh" only a moment ago. Now, He's clarifying that "the flesh profits nothing"?

Only one reading makes sense here. The point where He clarifies himself to His begrudging disciples, this is where He tells them what His words actually meant.

Before, I thought He was just telling them not not to doubt His words as they are full of spirit and life.

Now, I think He was actually interpreting His symbolism. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He first lays this out there to show they should've caught onto His veiled language from the start. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." He's telling them the words 'flesh' and 'blood' were stand-ins for the words 'spirit' and 'life'.

Not too monumental a notion. But is He then saying His flesh is not actually flesh, but rather spirit in the form of flesh?

I came to this reading after looking at the various ways Jesus tries to engage His disciples in symbolic teachings only to have to explain everything because they don't get it. Like when He warns them about the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

Matthew 16:5-8, 11-12
5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out!” Jesus told them. “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and concluded, “It is because we did not bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their conversation, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you debating among yourselves about having no bread?

11 How do you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

12 Then they understood that He was not telling them to beware of the leaven used in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Anyway, all this and my main takeaway is probably just that Jesus was telling us something about His 'flesh' being different than our flesh. This resonates as I've been contemplating the incarnation and how Jesus was likely only human in form but not in His true nature.
Photine
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02/14/2020 12:26 AM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Evening, Photine. Mind if I trouble you for your thoughts on a reading I was doing earlier today? It's some real rudimentary kind of stuff. Possibly more basic than Christianity 101.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Proceed.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


I was reading over these verses:

John 6:51-52
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the J.ews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."

The controversy here has continuously come up for as long as I've been paying attention to debates within/against Christianity. One side attempts to make the words of Christ into something sinister. As in, a literal interpretation of eating flesh and drinking blood.

Still, most others (even non-believers) explain the words of Christ as symbolic, and detail what the symbolism is meant to represent. They usually draw from other passages to make their arguments.

But, as I re-read the following verses, it seems traversing beyond this passage isn't necessary.

John 6:61
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

He just got through saying "this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh" only a moment ago. Now, He's clarifying that "the flesh profits nothing"?

Only one reading makes sense here. The point where He clarifies himself to His begrudging disciples, this is where He tells them what His words actually meant.

Before, I thought He was just telling them not not to doubt His words as they are full of spirit and life.

Now, I think He was actually interpreting His symbolism. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He first lays this out there to show they should've caught onto His veiled language from the start. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." He's telling them the words 'flesh' and 'blood' were stand-ins for the words 'spirit' and 'life'.

Not too monumental a notion. But is He then saying His flesh is not actually flesh, but rather spirit in the form of flesh?

I came to this reading after looking at the various ways Jesus tries to engage His disciples in symbolic teachings only to have to explain everything because they don't get it. Like when He warns them about the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

Matthew 16:5-8, 11-12
5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out!” Jesus told them. “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and concluded, “It is because we did not bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their conversation, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you debating among yourselves about having no bread?

11 How do you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

12 Then they understood that He was not telling them to beware of the leaven used in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Anyway, all this and my main takeaway is probably just that Jesus was telling us something about His 'flesh' being different than our flesh. This resonates as I've been contemplating the incarnation and how Jesus was likely only human in form but not in His true nature.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Exodus 16:6-14
6So Moses and Aaron said to all the Israelites, “This evening you will know that it was the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, 7and in the morning you will see the LORD’s glory, because He has heard your grumbling against Him. For who are we that you should grumble against us?”
8And Moses added, “The LORD will give you meat to eat this evening and bread to fill you in the morning, for He has heard your grumbling against Him. Who are we? Your grumblings are not against us but against the LORD.”
9Then Moses said to Aaron, “Tell the whole congregation of Israel, ‘Come before the LORD, for He has heard your grumbling.’”
10And as Aaron was speaking to the whole congregation of Israel, they looked toward the desert, and there in a cloud the glory of the LORD appeared.
11Then the LORD said to Moses, 12“I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’”
13That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14When the layer of dew had evaporated, there were thin flakes on the desert floor, as fine as frost on the ground. 15When the Israelites saw it, they asked one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.
So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat.

Nehemiah 9:20
20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 01:04 AM

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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Evening, Photine. Mind if I trouble you for your thoughts on a reading I was doing earlier today? It's some real rudimentary kind of stuff. Possibly more basic than Christianity 101.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Proceed.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


I was reading over these verses:

John 6:51-52
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the J.ews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."

The controversy here has continuously come up for as long as I've been paying attention to debates within/against Christianity. One side attempts to make the words of Christ into something sinister. As in, a literal interpretation of eating flesh and drinking blood.

Still, most others (even non-believers) explain the words of Christ as symbolic, and detail what the symbolism is meant to represent. They usually draw from other passages to make their arguments.

But, as I re-read the following verses, it seems traversing beyond this passage isn't necessary.

John 6:61
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

He just got through saying "this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh" only a moment ago. Now, He's clarifying that "the flesh profits nothing"?

Only one reading makes sense here. The point where He clarifies himself to His begrudging disciples, this is where He tells them what His words actually meant.

Before, I thought He was just telling them not not to doubt His words as they are full of spirit and life.

Now, I think He was actually interpreting His symbolism. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He first lays this out there to show they should've caught onto His veiled language from the start. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." He's telling them the words 'flesh' and 'blood' were stand-ins for the words 'spirit' and 'life'.

Not too monumental a notion. But is He then saying His flesh is not actually flesh, but rather spirit in the form of flesh?

I came to this reading after looking at the various ways Jesus tries to engage His disciples in symbolic teachings only to have to explain everything because they don't get it. Like when He warns them about the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

Matthew 16:5-8, 11-12
5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out!” Jesus told them. “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and concluded, “It is because we did not bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their conversation, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you debating among yourselves about having no bread?

11 How do you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

12 Then they understood that He was not telling them to beware of the leaven used in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Anyway, all this and my main takeaway is probably just that Jesus was telling us something about His 'flesh' being different than our flesh. This resonates as I've been contemplating the incarnation and how Jesus was likely only human in form but not in His true nature.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Exodus 16:6-14
6So Moses and Aaron said to all the Israelites, “This evening you will know that it was the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, 7and in the morning you will see the LORD’s glory, because He has heard your grumbling against Him. For who are we that you should grumble against us?”
8And Moses added, “The LORD will give you meat to eat this evening and bread to fill you in the morning, for He has heard your grumbling against Him. Who are we? Your grumblings are not against us but against the LORD.”
9Then Moses said to Aaron, “Tell the whole congregation of Israel, ‘Come before the LORD, for He has heard your grumbling.’”
10And as Aaron was speaking to the whole congregation of Israel, they looked toward the desert, and there in a cloud the glory of the LORD appeared.
11Then the LORD said to Moses, 12“I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’”
13That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14When the layer of dew had evaporated, there were thin flakes on the desert floor, as fine as frost on the ground. 15When the Israelites saw it, they asked one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.
So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat.

Nehemiah 9:20
20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes hf

Another thought I have here is how Jesus is both the bread and He who gives the bread.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

I see confusion in similar expository passages. Many people I talk to conceive of the 'way' as the Holy Spirit (non-Jesus entity) which Jesus gave as means to communion and intercession between the realms of God and man. As if Jesus couldn't make the way and be the way at the same time. But relevant passages in the Gospel say otherwise:

John 14:3-6
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way"
Photine
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02/14/2020 01:12 AM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
...


Proceed.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


I was reading over these verses:

John 6:51-52
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the J.ews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."

The controversy here has continuously come up for as long as I've been paying attention to debates within/against Christianity. One side attempts to make the words of Christ into something sinister. As in, a literal interpretation of eating flesh and drinking blood.

Still, most others (even non-believers) explain the words of Christ as symbolic, and detail what the symbolism is meant to represent. They usually draw from other passages to make their arguments.

But, as I re-read the following verses, it seems traversing beyond this passage isn't necessary.

John 6:61
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

He just got through saying "this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh" only a moment ago. Now, He's clarifying that "the flesh profits nothing"?

Only one reading makes sense here. The point where He clarifies himself to His begrudging disciples, this is where He tells them what His words actually meant.

Before, I thought He was just telling them not not to doubt His words as they are full of spirit and life.

Now, I think He was actually interpreting His symbolism. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He first lays this out there to show they should've caught onto His veiled language from the start. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." He's telling them the words 'flesh' and 'blood' were stand-ins for the words 'spirit' and 'life'.

Not too monumental a notion. But is He then saying His flesh is not actually flesh, but rather spirit in the form of flesh?

I came to this reading after looking at the various ways Jesus tries to engage His disciples in symbolic teachings only to have to explain everything because they don't get it. Like when He warns them about the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

Matthew 16:5-8, 11-12
5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out!” Jesus told them. “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and concluded, “It is because we did not bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their conversation, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you debating among yourselves about having no bread?

11 How do you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

12 Then they understood that He was not telling them to beware of the leaven used in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Anyway, all this and my main takeaway is probably just that Jesus was telling us something about His 'flesh' being different than our flesh. This resonates as I've been contemplating the incarnation and how Jesus was likely only human in form but not in His true nature.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Exodus 16:6-14
6So Moses and Aaron said to all the Israelites, “This evening you will know that it was the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, 7and in the morning you will see the LORD’s glory, because He has heard your grumbling against Him. For who are we that you should grumble against us?”
8And Moses added, “The LORD will give you meat to eat this evening and bread to fill you in the morning, for He has heard your grumbling against Him. Who are we? Your grumblings are not against us but against the LORD.”
9Then Moses said to Aaron, “Tell the whole congregation of Israel, ‘Come before the LORD, for He has heard your grumbling.’”
10And as Aaron was speaking to the whole congregation of Israel, they looked toward the desert, and there in a cloud the glory of the LORD appeared.
11Then the LORD said to Moses, 12“I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’”
13That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14When the layer of dew had evaporated, there were thin flakes on the desert floor, as fine as frost on the ground. 15When the Israelites saw it, they asked one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.
So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat.

Nehemiah 9:20
20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes hf

Another thought I have here is how Jesus is both the bread and He who gives the bread.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

I see confusion in similar expository passages. Many people I talk to conceive of the 'way' as the Holy Spirit (non-Jesus entity) which Jesus gave as means to communion and intercession between the realms of God and man. As if Jesus couldn't make the way and be the way at the same time. But relevant passages in the Gospel say otherwise:

John 14:3-6
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way"
 Quoting: Bee Free


The Glory of God in Exodus 16:7 is even treated as a distinct person from God, as you can see.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 01:31 AM

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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
...


I was reading over these verses:

John 6:51-52
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the J.ews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."

The controversy here has continuously come up for as long as I've been paying attention to debates within/against Christianity. One side attempts to make the words of Christ into something sinister. As in, a literal interpretation of eating flesh and drinking blood.

Still, most others (even non-believers) explain the words of Christ as symbolic, and detail what the symbolism is meant to represent. They usually draw from other passages to make their arguments.

But, as I re-read the following verses, it seems traversing beyond this passage isn't necessary.

John 6:61
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

He just got through saying "this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh" only a moment ago. Now, He's clarifying that "the flesh profits nothing"?

Only one reading makes sense here. The point where He clarifies himself to His begrudging disciples, this is where He tells them what His words actually meant.

Before, I thought He was just telling them not not to doubt His words as they are full of spirit and life.

Now, I think He was actually interpreting His symbolism. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He first lays this out there to show they should've caught onto His veiled language from the start. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." He's telling them the words 'flesh' and 'blood' were stand-ins for the words 'spirit' and 'life'.

Not too monumental a notion. But is He then saying His flesh is not actually flesh, but rather spirit in the form of flesh?

I came to this reading after looking at the various ways Jesus tries to engage His disciples in symbolic teachings only to have to explain everything because they don't get it. Like when He warns them about the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

Matthew 16:5-8, 11-12
5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out!” Jesus told them. “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and concluded, “It is because we did not bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their conversation, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you debating among yourselves about having no bread?

11 How do you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

12 Then they understood that He was not telling them to beware of the leaven used in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Anyway, all this and my main takeaway is probably just that Jesus was telling us something about His 'flesh' being different than our flesh. This resonates as I've been contemplating the incarnation and how Jesus was likely only human in form but not in His true nature.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Exodus 16:6-14
6So Moses and Aaron said to all the Israelites, “This evening you will know that it was the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, 7and in the morning you will see the LORD’s glory, because He has heard your grumbling against Him. For who are we that you should grumble against us?”
8And Moses added, “The LORD will give you meat to eat this evening and bread to fill you in the morning, for He has heard your grumbling against Him. Who are we? Your grumblings are not against us but against the LORD.”
9Then Moses said to Aaron, “Tell the whole congregation of Israel, ‘Come before the LORD, for He has heard your grumbling.’”
10And as Aaron was speaking to the whole congregation of Israel, they looked toward the desert, and there in a cloud the glory of the LORD appeared.
11Then the LORD said to Moses, 12“I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’”
13That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14When the layer of dew had evaporated, there were thin flakes on the desert floor, as fine as frost on the ground. 15When the Israelites saw it, they asked one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.
So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat.

Nehemiah 9:20
20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes hf

Another thought I have here is how Jesus is both the bread and He who gives the bread.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

I see confusion in similar expository passages. Many people I talk to conceive of the 'way' as the Holy Spirit (non-Jesus entity) which Jesus gave as means to communion and intercession between the realms of God and man. As if Jesus couldn't make the way and be the way at the same time. But relevant passages in the Gospel say otherwise:

John 14:3-6
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way"
 Quoting: Bee Free


The Glory of God in Exodus 16:7 is even treated as a distinct person from God, as you can see.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes, I see. There's plenty of language in the epistles that clears up the matter almost perfectly. Especially Paul's discussion on the various manifestations and gifts of the Spirit being of one single Spirit. But I'm trying to keep my premises within the scope of the OT and four accounts of the Gospel for now. But, soon. Soon I will argue unabashedly.
Photine
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...


Exodus 16:6-14
6So Moses and Aaron said to all the Israelites, “This evening you will know that it was the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, 7and in the morning you will see the LORD’s glory, because He has heard your grumbling against Him. For who are we that you should grumble against us?”
8And Moses added, “The LORD will give you meat to eat this evening and bread to fill you in the morning, for He has heard your grumbling against Him. Who are we? Your grumblings are not against us but against the LORD.”
9Then Moses said to Aaron, “Tell the whole congregation of Israel, ‘Come before the LORD, for He has heard your grumbling.’”
10And as Aaron was speaking to the whole congregation of Israel, they looked toward the desert, and there in a cloud the glory of the LORD appeared.
11Then the LORD said to Moses, 12“I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’”
13That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14When the layer of dew had evaporated, there were thin flakes on the desert floor, as fine as frost on the ground. 15When the Israelites saw it, they asked one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.
So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat.

Nehemiah 9:20
20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes hf

Another thought I have here is how Jesus is both the bread and He who gives the bread.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

I see confusion in similar expository passages. Many people I talk to conceive of the 'way' as the Holy Spirit (non-Jesus entity) which Jesus gave as means to communion and intercession between the realms of God and man. As if Jesus couldn't make the way and be the way at the same time. But relevant passages in the Gospel say otherwise:

John 14:3-6
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way"
 Quoting: Bee Free


The Glory of God in Exodus 16:7 is even treated as a distinct person from God, as you can see.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes, I see. There's plenty of language in the epistles that clears up the matter almost perfectly. Especially Paul's discussion on the various manifestations and gifts of the Spirit being of one single Spirit. But I'm trying to keep my premises within the scope of the OT and four accounts of the Gospel for now. But, soon. Soon I will argue unabashedly.
 Quoting: Bee Free


1 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Photine
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Yes hf

Another thought I have here is how Jesus is both the bread and He who gives the bread.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

I see confusion in similar expository passages. Many people I talk to conceive of the 'way' as the Holy Spirit (non-Jesus entity) which Jesus gave as means to communion and intercession between the realms of God and man. As if Jesus couldn't make the way and be the way at the same time. But relevant passages in the Gospel say otherwise:

John 14:3-6
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way"
 Quoting: Bee Free


The Glory of God in Exodus 16:7 is even treated as a distinct person from God, as you can see.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes, I see. There's plenty of language in the epistles that clears up the matter almost perfectly. Especially Paul's discussion on the various manifestations and gifts of the Spirit being of one single Spirit. But I'm trying to keep my premises within the scope of the OT and four accounts of the Gospel for now. But, soon. Soon I will argue unabashedly.
 Quoting: Bee Free


1 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Nehemiah 9:15
In their hunger you gave them bread from heaven and in their thirst you brought them water from the rock; you told them to go in and take possession of the land you had sworn with uplifted hand to give them.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 01:49 AM

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...


Yes hf

Another thought I have here is how Jesus is both the bread and He who gives the bread.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

I see confusion in similar expository passages. Many people I talk to conceive of the 'way' as the Holy Spirit (non-Jesus entity) which Jesus gave as means to communion and intercession between the realms of God and man. As if Jesus couldn't make the way and be the way at the same time. But relevant passages in the Gospel say otherwise:

John 14:3-6
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way"
 Quoting: Bee Free


The Glory of God in Exodus 16:7 is even treated as a distinct person from God, as you can see.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes, I see. There's plenty of language in the epistles that clears up the matter almost perfectly. Especially Paul's discussion on the various manifestations and gifts of the Spirit being of one single Spirit. But I'm trying to keep my premises within the scope of the OT and four accounts of the Gospel for now. But, soon. Soon I will argue unabashedly.
 Quoting: Bee Free


1 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980

Philippians 1:19
For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

1 John 4:13
By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit.

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether J.ews or Gentiles,
slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. ...

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit...

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Philippians 1:27
Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know
that you stand firm in the one Spirit…

1 Corinthians 12:11
There is only one Spirit who does all these things by giving what God wants to give to each person...
Anonymous Coward
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02/14/2020 01:50 AM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Moose, is good meat.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 01:57 AM

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Photine
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02/14/2020 02:01 AM
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...


The Glory of God in Exodus 16:7 is even treated as a distinct person from God, as you can see.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


Yes, I see. There's plenty of language in the epistles that clears up the matter almost perfectly. Especially Paul's discussion on the various manifestations and gifts of the Spirit being of one single Spirit. But I'm trying to keep my premises within the scope of the OT and four accounts of the Gospel for now. But, soon. Soon I will argue unabashedly.
 Quoting: Bee Free


1 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980

Philippians 1:19
For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

1 John 4:13
By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit.

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether J.ews or Gentiles,
slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. ...

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit...

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Philippians 1:27
Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know
that you stand firm in the one Spirit…

1 Corinthians 12:11
There is only one Spirit who does all these things by giving what God wants to give to each person...
 Quoting: Bee Free


Great, you found lots of verses I don't post.... Good to see. Still thankful you believe.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 02:11 AM

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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
I post almost nothing of what I have in my thoughts and notes. Hope to impress you later, though.
Photine
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02/14/2020 02:20 AM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
I post almost nothing of what I have in my thoughts and notes. Hope to impress you later, though.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Faith impresses me
Photine
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02/14/2020 02:46 AM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
1 Maccabees 2:59 DRA Ananias and Azarias and Misael by believing, were delivered out of the flame.
Bee Free

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02/14/2020 03:22 AM

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Photine
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02/14/2020 03:28 AM
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Daniel 4:18 "That is what I, King Nebuchadnezzar, dreamed. Now Belteshazzar, tell me what the dream means. None of the wise men in my kingdom can explain it to me, but you can, because the spirit of the holy gods is in you."

Daniel 5:11-14
11 There is a man in your kingdom who is endowed with a spirit of the holy gods. In the days of your father he was found to have enlightenment, understanding, and wisdom like the wisdom of the gods. Your father, King Nebuchadnezzar, made him chief of the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and diviners, 12 because an excellent spirit, knowledge, and understanding to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve problems were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar. Now let Daniel be called, and he will give the interpretation.”
13 Then Daniel was brought in before the king. The king said to Daniel, “So you are Daniel, one of the exiles of Judah, whom my father the king brought from Judah? 14 I have heard of you that a spirit of the gods is in you, and that enlightenment, understanding, and excellent wisdom are found in you.

Daniel 6:3
Soon Daniel distinguished himself above all the other presidents and satraps because an excellent spirit was in him, and the king planned to appoint him over the whole kingdom
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Sometimes the sword is a spam javelin.
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.

 Quoting: Bee Free


Anonymous Coward
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
I post almost nothing of what I have in my thoughts and notes. Hope to impress you later, though.
 Quoting: Bee Free


I hope to see your response soon.
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Re: Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.
Evening, Photine. Mind if I trouble you for your thoughts on a reading I was doing earlier today? It's some real rudimentary kind of stuff. Possibly more basic than Christianity 101.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Proceed.
 Quoting: Photine 75425980


I was reading over these verses:

John 6:51-52
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the J.ews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."

The controversy here has continuously come up for as long as I've been paying attention to debates within/against Christianity. One side attempts to make the words of Christ into something sinister. As in, a literal interpretation of eating flesh and drinking blood.

Still, most others (even non-believers) explain the words of Christ as symbolic, and detail what the symbolism is meant to represent. They usually draw from other passages to make their arguments.

But, as I re-read the following verses, it seems traversing beyond this passage isn't necessary.

John 6:61
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

He just got through saying "this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh" only a moment ago. Now, He's clarifying that "the flesh profits nothing"?

Only one reading makes sense here. The point where He clarifies himself to His begrudging disciples, this is where He tells them what His words actually meant.

Before, I thought He was just telling them not not to doubt His words as they are full of spirit and life.

Now, I think He was actually interpreting His symbolism. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He first lays this out there to show they should've caught onto His veiled language from the start. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." He's telling them the words 'flesh' and 'blood' were stand-ins for the words 'spirit' and 'life'.

Not too monumental a notion. But is He then saying His flesh is not actually flesh, but rather spirit in the form of flesh?

I came to this reading after looking at the various ways Jesus tries to engage His disciples in symbolic teachings only to have to explain everything because they don't get it. Like when He warns them about the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

Matthew 16:5-8, 11-12
5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out!” Jesus told them. “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and concluded, “It is because we did not bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their conversation, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you debating among yourselves about having no bread?

11 How do you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

12 Then they understood that He was not telling them to beware of the leaven used in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Anyway, all this and my main takeaway is probably just that Jesus was telling us something about His 'flesh' being different than our flesh. This resonates as I've been contemplating the incarnation and how Jesus was likely only human in form but not in His true nature.
 Quoting: Bee Free


Thank you for sharing your opinion. You are on the right path hf God bless you
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1 Cor 12:8
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;

1 Corinthians 8:6b
one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 3:17
The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Nehemiah 9:30
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands.





GLP