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| 04:03 AM | ||
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| 04:03 AM | ||
Could the United States Government be fixed with a 4th Check and Balance? | |
| Take a Minute User ID: 77338979  United States01/15/2020 01:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Kotlik User ID: 60644295 United States01/15/2020 01:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 01:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Only fix is to get rid of corruption. I think make it illegal for lawyers to run for office would probably be enough. Quoting: Kotlik 60644295 Simply no. You are saying that you want everyone that has ever been a lawyer or anyone that might ever become one, to never be able to run for office? That's like saying no one should be able to own a gun, only because someone else used it wrong. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77497363 United States01/15/2020 01:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77957449 United States01/15/2020 01:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No, because checks and balances don't really safeguard against endemic corruption. And adding additional checks and balances become redundant. To many redundancies can actually make the system weaker, because it adds more parts to the system and more parts in a system the higher the rate of entropy and eventual failure. The founding fathers studied many governments in the forming of the US government and put in what they deemed were the proper amount of checks and balances. Adding more will not fix the problem. The entire history of humanity has proven you can not regulate out corruption with systems and laws. Corruption will infect them all. The only way to deal with corruption is to root it out and destroy it like a weed or cancer where ever it is found. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77957449 United States01/15/2020 01:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Denizen Deplorable 2020  User ID: 78068029 United States01/15/2020 01:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78331302 United States01/15/2020 01:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | As in every government around the world, there is a deep seeded corruption in the United States government. One that goes unchecked with our current system of checks and balances. Quoting: Take a Minute 77338979 My question is, can with fix this with a 4th tier? This new system would be citizens shadowing high level government officials with audio and video. These citizens would be picked randomly from a database of voters. They would be sworn in and given the same clearance as the official they are following. They would serve a 1 year term. They will not be able to be addressed by the official they follow, media, public groups, private citizens, or other government officials; unless they are addressed by the citizen that is shadowing. Doing so would be dictated as a crime. The purpose of adding a citizen to shadow top officials is to weed out any wrongdoings. To follow and listen to what is going on around them, being an immediate presents of the checks and balances. If any wrongdoing occurred, they would report it to a committee, both in congress and the judicial branch. The President would be notified of the process. If either committee find that there was an over-reach or wrongdoing, the accused will be removed and charged. The selected citizens should not be investigated outside the term of their serves, nor may anyone from their past speak out about them. Doing so would be dictated as a crime. This would protect the selected person outside political persuasion. This is just a summery of the idea. Thoughts? It already has one: We the People. We can vote, convene Grand Juries to investigate corruption and even protest or Revolt, if necessary. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 01:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No, because checks and balances don't really safeguard against endemic corruption. And adding additional checks and balances become redundant. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77957449 To many redundancies can actually make the system weaker, because it adds more parts to the system and more parts in a system the higher the rate of entropy and eventual failure. The founding fathers studied many governments in the forming of the US government and put in what they deemed were the proper amount of checks and balances. Adding more will not fix the problem. The entire history of humanity has proven you can not regulate out corruption with systems and laws. Corruption will infect them all. The only way to deal with corruption is to root it out and destroy it like a weed or cancer where ever it is found. How would people who are selected to watch and listen be corrupted, when I clearly said to dictate a law that would prevent anyone from talking with the person selected? And how do you weed out the corruption that we already know is there, or that we don't know of when no one can get there to see how far and wide it actually is? |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 01:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | As in every government around the world, there is a deep seeded corruption in the United States government. One that goes unchecked with our current system of checks and balances. Quoting: Take a Minute 77338979 My question is, can with fix this with a 4th tier? This new system would be citizens shadowing high level government officials with audio and video. These citizens would be picked randomly from a database of voters. They would be sworn in and given the same clearance as the official they are following. They would serve a 1 year term. They will not be able to be addressed by the official they follow, media, public groups, private citizens, or other government officials; unless they are addressed by the citizen that is shadowing. Doing so would be dictated as a crime. The purpose of adding a citizen to shadow top officials is to weed out any wrongdoings. To follow and listen to what is going on around them, being an immediate presents of the checks and balances. If any wrongdoing occurred, they would report it to a committee, both in congress and the judicial branch. The President would be notified of the process. If either committee find that there was an over-reach or wrongdoing, the accused will be removed and charged. The selected citizens should not be investigated outside the term of their serves, nor may anyone from their past speak out about them. Doing so would be dictated as a crime. This would protect the selected person outside political persuasion. This is just a summery of the idea. Thoughts? It already has one: We the People. We can vote, convene Grand Juries to investigate corruption and even protest or Revolt, if necessary. If that is the case, why is there still so many corrupt people in our government? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 13204697 United States01/15/2020 01:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If we had technology Why not track location of every person as well as record everything they say and do Keep it all in central database Public access to whatever you do in public restricted access to activities in your own home etc |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 02:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Take a step further Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13204697 If we had technology Why not track location of every person as well as record everything they say and do Keep it all in central database Public access to whatever you do in public restricted access to activities in your own home etc Because that would violate your right to privacy. And would interfere with classified information. You can film me in public all you want, but not once I step behind a fully closed door. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77957449 United States01/15/2020 02:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No, because checks and balances don't really safeguard against endemic corruption. And adding additional checks and balances become redundant. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77957449 To many redundancies can actually make the system weaker, because it adds more parts to the system and more parts in a system the higher the rate of entropy and eventual failure. The founding fathers studied many governments in the forming of the US government and put in what they deemed were the proper amount of checks and balances. Adding more will not fix the problem. The entire history of humanity has proven you can not regulate out corruption with systems and laws. Corruption will infect them all. The only way to deal with corruption is to root it out and destroy it like a weed or cancer where ever it is found. How would people who are selected to watch and listen be corrupted, when I clearly said to dictate a law that would prevent anyone from talking with the person selected? And how do you weed out the corruption that we already know is there, or that we don't know of when no one can get there to see how far and wide it actually is? The same way that sometimes people in witness protection still get killed by the mob/gangs. Corruption corrupts all. And your idea relies on a database and computer system. Both of which would be built and maintained by people. TPTB only have to corrupt the builders of the system to circumnavigate any anonymity in it. |
| syncro User ID: 75835116 United States01/15/2020 02:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78349781  Brazil01/15/2020 02:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77957449 United States01/15/2020 02:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No, because checks and balances don't really safeguard against endemic corruption. And adding additional checks and balances become redundant. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77957449 To many redundancies can actually make the system weaker, because it adds more parts to the system and more parts in a system the higher the rate of entropy and eventual failure. The founding fathers studied many governments in the forming of the US government and put in what they deemed were the proper amount of checks and balances. Adding more will not fix the problem. The entire history of humanity has proven you can not regulate out corruption with systems and laws. Corruption will infect them all. The only way to deal with corruption is to root it out and destroy it like a weed or cancer where ever it is found. How would people who are selected to watch and listen be corrupted, when I clearly said to dictate a law that would prevent anyone from talking with the person selected? And how do you weed out the corruption that we already know is there, or that we don't know of when no one can get there to see how far and wide it actually is? The same way that sometimes people in witness protection still get killed by the mob/gangs. Corruption corrupts all. And your idea relies on a database and computer system. Both of which would be built and maintained by people. TPTB only have to corrupt the builders of the system to circumnavigate any anonymity in it. As far as rooting out corruption, right now it is easy because anyone in the system right now is either corrupt or turns a blind eye to the corruption. So just get rid of them all and start over. As far as weeding out corruption into the future, well that is slow and continuous process. One where the individual must abstain from corruption themselves and when they see it around them in their family, at work, in society etc, they have to stand up to it and call it out, even if it means they might get killed. It is high price to ask of the people and a hard task to get them to follow, which is why history has always been a seesaw between total tyranny and brief moments of freedom. Because people don't want to risk what they have to keep the systems clean and they turn a blind eye to it as it grows and infests. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 02:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No, because checks and balances don't really safeguard against endemic corruption. And adding additional checks and balances become redundant. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77957449 To many redundancies can actually make the system weaker, because it adds more parts to the system and more parts in a system the higher the rate of entropy and eventual failure. The founding fathers studied many governments in the forming of the US government and put in what they deemed were the proper amount of checks and balances. Adding more will not fix the problem. The entire history of humanity has proven you can not regulate out corruption with systems and laws. Corruption will infect them all. The only way to deal with corruption is to root it out and destroy it like a weed or cancer where ever it is found. How would people who are selected to watch and listen be corrupted, when I clearly said to dictate a law that would prevent anyone from talking with the person selected? And how do you weed out the corruption that we already know is there, or that we don't know of when no one can get there to see how far and wide it actually is? The same way that sometimes people in witness protection still get killed by the mob/gangs. Corruption corrupts all. And your idea relies on a database and computer system. Both of which would be built and maintained by people. TPTB only have to corrupt the builders of the system to circumnavigate any anonymity in it. Yes those things do happen, but more than not, those people in WP live out a full life. And I believe that if something like this was implemented, that there would be plenty of people at each level that would call out any corruption they saw happening, rendering TPTB a non-factor in the selection process. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 02:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | As far as rooting out corruption, right now it is easy because anyone in the system right now is either corrupt or turns a blind eye to the corruption. So just get rid of them all and start over. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77957449 As far as weeding out corruption into the future, well that is slow and continuous process. One where the individual must abstain from corruption themselves and when they see it around them in their family, at work, in society etc, they have to stand up to it and call it out, even if it means they might get killed. It is high price to ask of the people and a hard task to get them to follow, which is why history has always been a seesaw between total tyranny and brief moments of freedom. Because people don't want to risk what they have to keep the systems clean and they turn a blind eye to it as it grows and infests. And I believe that with this process, you could stop corruption in the future. Adding in a person that is only going to be there for a single year, it's a little hard to corrupt them in such a short period of time. And remember that I stated, "they will not be able to be addressed by the official they follow, media, public groups, private citizens, or other government officials; unless they are addressed by the citizen that is shadowing. Doing so would be dictated as a crime." |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 03:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 03:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Lost in the snow User ID: 36271174 United States01/15/2020 03:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/15/2020 03:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/18/2020 01:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78128618 United States01/18/2020 01:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A simpler way to do about the same thing: require all of CON-gress to move out of the District of Corruption, set up office in the heart of their district/state, open to the public at all times, and conduct all official business electronically at a distance. Two things that would accomplish: (1) Put them (and any lingering lobbyists) under constant scrutiny and subject to constant "feedback" of/from their constituents. (2) Make lobbying 50 times more difficult with respect to logistics/numbers of them, much more costly, and under constant surveillance (#1) by the voting public. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/18/2020 01:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A simpler way to do about the same thing: require all of CON-gress to move out of the District of Corruption, set up office in the heart of their district/state, open to the public at all times, and conduct all official business electronically at a distance. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78128618 Two things that would accomplish: (1) Put them (and any lingering lobbyists) under constant scrutiny and subject to constant "feedback" of/from their constituents. (2) Make lobbying 50 times more difficult with respect to logistics/numbers of them, much more costly, and under constant surveillance (#1) by the voting public. I don't like the idea of them voting for things electronically, they should have to always be present in congress to vote. Having a single person follow them around, every waking hour, to me, puts a strain on them that would quickly break them of trying to do anything corrupt. And I don't to make it hard for lobbyist, I want it to be near impossible. And also having the threat of spending the next 10+ years in Gitmo. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 46717816 United States01/18/2020 01:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/18/2020 01:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It already has one. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46717816 The other three will be destroyed, in a manner of speaking, on Monday at Richmond. They'll be remade according to Our Image and Likeness. You guys will barely feel a thing. That should always be a last resort and I don't think we are there yet. Yes arm yourselves and stand up, but do not go into violence until it is the last option. Those in charge in Va. has stepped over the line and should be arrested and charged. Once convicted, and only then, should their faith be sealed. My idea would prevent any of this from ever happening again. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78344555 United States01/18/2020 01:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Only fix is to get rid of corruption. I think make it illegal for lawyers to run for office would probably be enough. Quoting: Kotlik 60644295 Simply no. You are saying that you want everyone that has ever been a lawyer or anyone that might ever become one, to never be able to run for office? That's like saying no one should be able to own a gun, only because someone else used it wrong. The original 13th Amendment barred lawyers from running for office. End result? A lawyer in the South, and a lawyer in the North, started a civil war to cover it up. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78111865 United States01/18/2020 02:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/18/2020 02:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Only fix is to get rid of corruption. I think make it illegal for lawyers to run for office would probably be enough. Quoting: Kotlik 60644295 Simply no. You are saying that you want everyone that has ever been a lawyer or anyone that might ever become one, to never be able to run for office? That's like saying no one should be able to own a gun, only because someone else used it wrong. The original 13th Amendment barred lawyers from running for office. End result? A lawyer in the South, and a lawyer in the North, started a civil war to cover it up. Again with this. I want you to think of anything else that you have/want, that someone else could do something bad with, and now think about it being law that you could not have/want it, all because someone else did something wrong with it. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 77338979 United States01/18/2020 02:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | TERM LIMITS on EVERY Federal office and employee. Fixes 90% of the problems. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78111865 Fixes? No, but it is something that will help. Even with term limits being proposed, people are still in for 6-8 years. Plenty of time to get talked into doing the wrong things, even the best of people. Why I think having a person shadowing them around everywhere they go, would be a great check and balance. |
